1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost

steeljack · 08-07-2011, 17:58

I have moved these posts from the News Of The World thread so as not to distract us from that topic. Some posts have been removed to avoid confusion - Neil

I'd be more concerned about the 1300 Bombadier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost than few journalists , seems this news has been eclipsed/swept under the carpet by this hackergate stuff

garinda · 08-07-2011, 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by steeljack

I'd be more concerned about the 1300 Bombadier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost than few journalists , seems this news has been eclipsed/swept under the carpet by this hackergate stuff

It's been a major news story here, and the job losses have been mourned.

Though the general consensus seems to be, that although it's preferable British industry is supported, the government is obliged to use tax payers' money to secure the most competitive tender.

steeljack · 08-07-2011, 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

It's been a major news story here, and the job losses have been mourned.

Though the general consensus seems to be, that although it's preferable British industry is supported, the government is obliged to use tax payers' money to secure the most competitive tender.

think to my mind its being Penny wise and Pound foolish, think if you take into account how much the Govt. is going to be spending in long term Unemployment and other Benefits paid to the 1300 families plus the other other social costs .

jaysay · 08-07-2011, 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by steeljack

think to my mind its being Penny wise and Pound foolish, think if you take into account how much the Govt. is going to be spending in long term Unemployment and other Benefits paid to the 1300 families plus the other other social costs .

Maybe just maybe when the European act was signed up to, a little more consideration could have been taken looking into the rules and regulations all member states have to adhere to when tendering for these contracts, its not so cut and dried as you think SJ there is a lot of red tape to get round which isn't easy.

garinda · 08-07-2011, 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by steeljack

think to my mind its being Penny wise and Pound foolish, think if you take into account how much the Govt. is going to be spending in long term Unemployment and other Benefits paid to the 1300 families plus the other other social costs .

What you say is correct, but UK plc is in deeply in the red.

Protectionism is something it just cannot afford to support.

Sure, we'd all love to buy only British, but if it's made a legal requirement to do so, we better say cheerio now, as we may be waiting rather a long time to access the internet on a British computer.

garinda · 08-07-2011, 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by steeljack

I'd be more concerned about the 1300 Bombadier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost than few journalists , seems this news has been eclipsed/swept under the carpet by this hackergate stuff

It's reported that 1,400 jobs will be lost in Derby, which amounts to nearly half the workforce. With over 400 of them being permanent posts. Siemens says it will bring 2,000 jobs to the UK, but only 300 of those will be the most valuable directly employed manufacturing jobs.

It is regretable, but there would probably been more of an outcry if taxes were spent on a contract that wasn't the most competitive.

Perhaps we should be asking why German firms are able to produce goods more cost effectively than we can in Britain.

Buy British needs to be about buying the best.

Both in quality, and value for money.

garinda · 08-07-2011, 19:35

Where should protectionism end?

If we were only allowed to wear clothes wholly manufactured in Britain, made of home grown materials, or eat only British grown food, most of us would soon die of hypothermia, or be left starving in the streets, queueing up for turnips.

Mancie · 08-07-2011, 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

It's reported that 1,400 jobs will be lost in Derby, which amounts to nearly half the workforce. With over 400 of them being permanent posts. Siemens says it will bring 2,000 jobs to the UK, but only 300 of those will be the most valuable directly employed manufacturing jobs.

It is regretable, but there would probably been more of an outcry if taxes were spent on a contract that wasn't the most competitive.

Perhaps we should be asking why German firms are able to produce goods more cost effectively than we can in Britain.

Buy British needs to be about buying the best.

Both in quality, and value for money.

It does seem strange, if as you say German or French firms are able to produce goods more effectively than we can here in the UK.. seeing as British workers are amongst the lowest paid in Europe but the highest taxed it can't be workforce costs.. could it be the total lack of confidence and contempt this government have for British manufacturing?..maybe the "thatcher years" are back.

garinda · 08-07-2011, 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

It does seem strange, if as you say German or French firms are able to produce goods more effectively than we can here in the UK.. seeing as British workers are amongst the lowest paid in Europe but the highest taxed it can't be workforce costs.. could it be the total lack of confidence and contempt this government have for British manufacturing?..maybe the "thatcher years" are back.

Blimey, saw you were posting here, and expected a bit of sparring.

We agree!

We should be asking why another western European company is able to win this contract, and a British firm can't.

If it had been awarded to a third world country, we know they'd have undercut us on labour, and other manufacturing costs.

This issue needs addressing, so it hopefully won't happen again.

Mancie · 08-07-2011, 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Blimey, saw you were posting here, and expected a bit of sparring.

We agree!

We should be asking why another western European company is able to win this contract, and a British firm can't.

If it had been awarded to a third world country, we know they'd have undercut us on labour, and other manufacturing costs.

This issue needs addressing, so it hopefully won't happen again.

I reckon you won't be holding your breath on that

.. we had big talk pre-election by Cameron and co about how Britian would come first in this sort of business and how they would rejuvenate the economy with jobs for British workers if they were elected..sadly it was all a con and I don't think things will change.

cashman · 08-07-2011, 22:25

wonder if the german company is subsidized? perhaps Dave will know?

setayas · 08-07-2011, 22:36

Perhaps the national adjuncts are a question here? We don't stop other nations bidding against us, but we don' t bid against them. Their bids are supported and financialy backed by their governments against EU rules. shouldn't we now do the same?

Mancie · 08-07-2011, 22:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

wonder if the german company is subsidized? perhaps Dave will know?

I doubt they are subsidised but they ain't as stupid as we are.. if a massive tender goes out to build transport links or any public funded enterprise they give the contract to home companies simple as that.
It's amazing that Thames water, BP, and almost every other company once owned by the British public but sold has ended up in foreign hands.and you can tell "Sid" that selling British Gas was a bad idea

garinda · 08-07-2011, 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by setayas

Perhaps the national adjuncts are a question here? We don't stop other nations bidding against us, but we don' t bid against them. Their bids are supported and financialy backed by their governments against EU rules. shouldn't we now do the same?

Better still, do as every other nation appears to do.

Stick two fingers up at EU rules.

Even better, use those two fingers to wave adios.

Neil · 09-07-2011, 07:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

It does seem strange, if as you say German or French firms are able to produce goods more effectively than we can here in the UK.. seeing as British workers are amongst the lowest paid in Europe but the highest taxed it can't be workforce costs.. could it be the total lack of confidence and contempt this government have for British manufacturing?..maybe the "thatcher years" are back.

I think you will find that the German government subsidises its industry.
We have a lot of German equipment where I work, when things took a turn for the worse for them their government stepped in helped them out. They are a major employer in their region and the loss of the company would have been devastating. This is what I was told from German engineers I was working with at the time.

That is what our government should be doing instead of giving aid to nuclear powers spending millions on space flight