How Can This Be Right?

[Mick]

Originally Posted by shillelagh

so as I don't have children .. don't have parents as they've both died .. who is responsible for my care ...
.

Think positive Bring back the workhouse

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by GEaston

Maybe collective moaning is a form of group therapy. As you know I've been following the threads for a few months, and make the observation that I can't recall a positive comment. Gotta be 10/1.

Now you can moan about me being positive and tell me to leave, however while it is an option to go, it is also my choice to stay (unless kicked out by the mods). As you know I like a challenge.

In this guys case we are all assuming that he's a paid up worker, why? He doesn't seem to have any skills so more likely not paid up. On the folk that made no contributions at all then yes, agreement abounds - they shouldn't get a penny.

It was Labour that both historically and more recently opened the floodgates of immigration. He'll they don't even know who they let in, which is amazing because whenever I land in a UK airport there's a long long queue suggesting that border control are doing more than just eating donuts. For 12 years under Labour they were eating donuts!

No-one(as far as I know) is telling you to leave...just letting you know that you have a choice...and what the choice is. The final decision has to be yours......and aren't you doing quite a lot of assuming too.
Just because you consider this person not to have any skills, does not in any way suggest he has not worked or contributed to the NI scheme.

Since when was discussion considered to be moaning?

[MargaretR]

I have searched for the definition of a 'civilised society' and found these quotes.

"...the moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; those who are in the shadows of life; the sick, the needy and the handicapped. " - Last Speech of Hubert H. Humphrey

"A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members." - Mahatma Ghandi

"A society will be judged on the basis of how it treats its weakest members and among the most vulnerable are surely the unborn and the dying," -Pope John Paul II

Aristotle has often been quoted as saying you can judge a nation by the way it treats its most vulnerable citizens.

If we consider the atrocious crimes committed against children and the way the elderly are treated as second-rate citizens in our so-called civilized countries, I would have to say that we are in the decline of civilisation..

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by MargaretR

I have searched for the definition of a 'civilised society' and found these quotes.

"...the moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; those who are in the shadows of life; the sick, the needy and the handicapped. " - Last Speech of Hubert H. Humphrey

"A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members." - Mahatma Ghandi

"A society will be judged on the basis of how it treats its weakest members and among the most vulnerable are surely the unborn and the dying," -Pope John Paul II

Aristotle has often been quoted as saying you can judge a nation by the way it treats its most vulnerable citizens.

If we consider the atrocious crimes committed against children and the way the elderly are treated as second-rate citizens in our so-called civilized countries, I would have to say that we are in the decline of civilisation..

Well I've just dashed to the bathroom (I haven't really, just said that for effect )to take my temperature as I find myself agreeing with your last sentence, well the bit about the elderly that is.

[Margaret Pilkington]

If we stopped providing aid to countries which have space programs...and who have notoriously corrupt governments...or gave aid, but made it a condition that the country accepting the aid had to purchase British goods and services.
Then we would be able to look after our elderly, the poor and the disabled a lot better than we do now.

If we are expected to provide our own pensions, then I want my 40 years worth of NI contributions back.(plus any interest it has accrued over those years)
I am entitled to my pension because I have paid into the system for 40 years...the governments during this time took my money - and if they misused it..or did not invest it wisely enough to ensure I could have the pension they promised, it is not my fault. They should stop giving the money to those who have paid nothing into the pot.

[GEaston]

As I said Marge no one is arguing that folk who don't pay into the system should get anything out of it. In fact hasn't the Tory government just proposed that ie what you get back is related to what you paid in?

I'm just noting that I paid in, but expect I will get nothing back. It's a one way contribution for me, and I am ok with that.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Well, it shouldn't be alright with you.
Are you in the habit of paying for something and not getting it? ...Shrugging your shoulders and saying 'well, that's Ok - it doesn't matter'.

It is a contribution that you cannot choose not to pay.
And the fact that(during my working life) I made provisions for my autumn years, could remove the liability of the government to pay me the pension that they promised me, doesn't sit well with me.
Those of us who are of pensionable age, are currently being blamed for the black hole in the welfare state. Yet we are the people who worked, and made goods that gave Britain the money to give away to other countries.....to give to those who come here and take money from the welfare pot(then send it back to their home country, where it benefits that economy - and buys more there).
They tell us that we should not have a bus pass......and it isn't free...I pay for it with my taxes.
They tell us we shouldn't have the winter heating allowance....but they can send billions of pounds in aid to other countries, but we can sit here in the winter and freeze because the price of power has rocketed(saving for my autumn years was meant to provide me with some little treats - but goes on eating and heating)

I am far from being wealthy......my pension is less than half of the average wage in this country and much less than many people who do not work, get in benefits.
I still pay tax.

No...we in this country are too generous to others who neither need or want our help(thinking of India - yes they have poor, but our aid does nothing to help those people).
Other countries with despotic leaders, take our money and use it for purposes other than it was intended for...it certainly does not go to helping the poor - or building an infrastructure that would benefit them.

The money should be used in this country. Helping sort out our own ailing economy, building roads...or even repairing those that we already have.
Building power stations........paying off the debt of those hospitals which were built using PFI and are now crippled by this debt.
I could go on and on...but what good would it do when our elected representatives listen to no-one? (least of all the electorate)

But it is Ok with you, because it doesn't actually touch you. Well right now it may not do...but it might ....... one day!

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by GEaston

As I said Marge

I would respectfully ask you not to refer to me in such a manner.
I am not the cheaper version of anything!

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

I would respectfully ask you not to refer to me in such a manner.
I am not the cheaper version of anything!

Reckon its best to ignore the know it all.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

I would respectfully ask you not to refer to me in such a manner.
I am not the cheaper version of anything!

I have to say You've always been Margaret to me and will remain to be so, if you'd wanted to be called Marge that would have been your screen name

[MargaretR]

Originally Posted by cashman

Reckon its best to ignore the know it all.

He is playing a dangerous game. When enough people wish he would be knocked off his sanctimonious pedestal - it likely will happen.

Dr. Buryl Payne (The Power of Collective Thought)

[accyman]

if it wasnt for benefits some people wouldnt be able to buy as many properties as they do


not a specifcally targeted at anyone its just that when thinking about it quite a lot of people get pretty well off and have a steady income thanks to housing benefit payments and they dont get stigmatized for taking benefit money like the claimant does

i can think of 2 lads i know that do pretty damn well out of single parents occupying their houses that are now paid off thanks to housing benefit

pretty good screw this buy a cheap crappy house ,get it to code and have the council pay the mortgage for you plus a bit of proffit each week

just imagine how much money you could make from teh council if you bought a rundown building and turned it into 1 bed flats at £90 pw or more

as for our own budding property developer i have no idea how much or if he even rents at all to the unemployed but a lot of folk make a good living from renting to benefit claimants

[accyman]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

I would respectfully ask you not to refer to me in such a manner.
I am not the cheaper version of anything!

i wouldnt say marge means cheaper

homer seems happy enough with his marge

[gpick24]

Originally Posted by accyman

if it wasnt for benefits some people wouldnt be able to buy as many properties as they do


not a specifcally targeted at anyone its just that when thinking about it quite a lot of people get pretty well off and have a steady income thanks to housing benefit payments and they dont get stigmatized for taking benefit money like the claimant does

i can think of 2 lads i know that do pretty damn well out of single parents occupying their houses that are now paid off thanks to housing benefit

pretty good screw this buy a cheap crappy house ,get it to code and have the council pay the mortgage for you plus a bit of proffit each week

just imagine how much money you could make from teh council if you bought a rundown building and turned it into 1 bed flats at £90 pw or more

as for our own budding property developer i have no idea how much or if he even rents at all to the unemployed but a lot of folk make a good living from renting to benefit claimants

Not trying to defend anyone, but if someone puts there money into a property to rent it out, and there are a lot of risks and extra costs with renting out a property, then surely they are entitled to make a bit of profit. And without any profit, they wouldn`t do it, which means there will be more empty properties in need of repair, and less decent places to live.
Is £90/wk the going rate for a flat nowadays. I have a stepson who lives in a bedsit for £55/wk, includes all bills, gas, leccy, tv licence & council tax.

[accyman]

Originally Posted by gpick24

Not trying to defend anyone, but if someone puts there money into a property to rent it out, and there are a lot of risks and extra costs with renting out a property, then surely they are entitled to make a bit of profit. And without any profit, they wouldn`t do it, which means there will be more empty properties in need of repair, and less decent places to live.
Is £90/wk the going rate for a flat nowadays. I have a stepson who lives in a bedsit for £55/wk, includes all bills, gas, leccy, tv licence & council tax.

i wasnt having a dig just pointing out that a lot of people do pretty well from benefits via proxy if you like

also if you visit certain parts of accy and rishton for example its pretty clear these people dont all invest in teh properties

mind you there wouldnt be a need for all these properties if someone hadnt sold off all the council houses only to be paying out double in rent for them than when they owned them

edit:

£55 p/w jesus thats cheap i was paying that for a bedsit back in teh early 90's and i had to feed an electric meter as well and no tv licence included or gas