Panopticon set to get green light

[Graham Jones]

Just to cheer up 'all our yesterdays crowd', Cabinet are to give the Panopticon project the green light next week as outlined in a two page report.

Originally Posted by staggeringman

7) another wasted load of hard earned cash going on something that the people of accrington dont WANT, WAKE UP MR JONES MONEY CAN BE BETTER SPENT ELSE WHERE ,. TYPICAL BLOODY APPRENTICE POLITITION, LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE N..B...D WHEN WILL YOU SET OF D...K H...DS LEARN.

I am a working class lad with working class mates who works very hard, both in a factory and as a working class resident on the council. I dont need lessons on grafting, factory work, long hours, gravyard shift in pie factories, part time work, 14 hour shifts, unemployment, paying taxes, low wages, redundancy, bully bosses, making ends meet, doing overtime to pay the bills or rubbing shoulders with other real people. I've got those medals thank you and if you actually knew me you'd know it.

So what is it that makes you want to insult me, my opinions? Do you want me stop expressing an opinion? Or just leave Accy Web altogether? There are other residents on here who have a similar view to me so should I stop having that view because I stood for election? Is my view an unacceptable view?

Whats the point, or what fun is there, of visiting Accy Web when so many people feel at ease running other people down personally?

Please study the quote below and consider that with the bully boy answer you wrote?

[PurpleLass]

Originally Posted by Graham Jones

Whats the point on visiting Accy Web?

The point is that by making the alternative point of view available and continuing to stand up for it it creates a balanced site. I've had tons of hassle because of my views on the Panopticon and it drives me mad too but it's no reason to give up. As I've said before there are a few people on here who are bullies and insist that they have the only correct view on some subjects but we all know that is not true.

Please don't give up coming on to the site as I think a lot of us have learnt more about the inner workings of the council because of you than we would have known about without.

[Margaret Pilkington]

While I am saddened that the Panopticon is set to get the green light........I think I always knew it would. I feel the consultation was just a paper execise.

Graham, on the other point that you make.......I don't think you should stop coming onto Accyweb.......it is always good to get another viewpoint........I may not agree with your point of view, but you are still entitled to have it. I have learned a lot from the information you have posted and that can't be a bad thing.
I also get the feeling that you are passionate about your local politics. To your own self be true!

[Graham Jones]

Originally Posted by PurpleLass

The point is that by making the alternative point of view available and continuing to stand up for it it creates a balanced site. I've had tons of hassle because of my views on the Panopticon and it drives me mad too but it's no reason to give up. As I've said before there are a few people on here who are bullies and insist that they have the only correct view on some subjects but we all know that is not true.

Please don't give up coming on to the site as I think a lot of us have learnt more about the inner workings of the council because of you than we would have known about without.

Granted. But nothing gets learnt from people who have a closed mind, fixed agenda and who cant handle others opinion. The threat of cranks doesnt worry me, however I dont want to stir up more. One guy was sectioned under the MHA last year [what was worrying was he wasnt worried by me, just every other councillor]. I caught him outide my house and went to speak to him. And my car has been damaged. 'The Voice of Reason'!!!

Heres a quick rundown on what has happened. cabinet will make the decison. Thats 7 Tories as elected by majority by the people. The Council is the cabinet and the Cabinet is Tory. Labour Councillors ARE NOT the Council, they are the official opposition.

There have been 5 seperate resident meetings to my knowledge and no more. FoAH, Peel & Barnfield Area Council, Huncoat Area Council, Civic Trust and MPA Public Meeting. All the residents there have voted in overwhelmingly in favour. Probably 95:5 if not higher. The no voters are a myth. We knocked on 4000 voters doors and the Panopiticons never came up once. Most strange if you read Accy Web!!!!

Its not local money. Its outside money. FoAH [Thats residents and myself] have done the backbone of work to determine whether it was worth it or not and that work has been taken and is the core of the report. Cabinet itself has done little over 18 months so the debate has been poor/uninformed. The majority of the cabinet are in favour and seeing as PB has seen the Tories slide electorally he has less room for manouevre against cabinet members in favour. PB has used it as a poitical football as well to attack Labour rather than investigate and conclude the best for the people of Hyndburn.

The Pals never used the trenches. They were there in the 40's to stop Jerry landings by plane and for soldiers to train. So I am stold back in 1914 it was Accy Golf Club, you can still see what appears to be the greens for Golf from higher up. There is nothing natural about the type of ecology there, eg the horrible conifer plantation. Decidous woodland and pasture grasses exist at higher altitude only a few hundred yards away. However what is there now is spolit by a grafiti covered shelter and worn monument, all accessed by ad hoc paths which are eroding the site. Some of the early schemes would have removed that shelter.

The cabinet has promised itself to unlock funding for the coppice. We shall see. Funding is there and I would expect it around £300k plus Remade over 5 years. Remade have said No Panopticon no funding. Panopticon and the remade programme strats 2006. They are taking lead from the Regional Park who now have only £600k left from £5m as they have only 18 months to run. The Regional Park £5m was only got on the promise that investment would attract outside visitors money, ie part of a economic regeneration plan and path improvments alone did cut the mustard and hence the £5m bid would have failed.

Anyway it is now the Coppice Project and the Panopticon itself is barely mentioned. I believe public opinion has swung Conservative thinking in favour.Possibly again another reflection of the wider held view of the public rather than the lobbyists who over played their importance and lost ground by narrowing their arguments to their own agenda rather than take on board some of the things said by those in favour.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Graham...you may have knocked on doors.....I didn't see anyone from any of the political persuasions......and it was not because I was out........I am retired. I was hoping for a chance to discuss local issues including the panopticon.

You, yourself sound a bit dubious about funding for the upkeep of the pathways (we shall see).

[Graham Jones]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Graham...you may have knocked on doors.....I didn't see anyone from any of the political persuasions......and it was not because I was out........I am retired. I was hoping for a chance to discuss local issues including the panopticon.

You, yourself sound a bit dubious about funding for the upkeep of the pathways (we shall see).

Where do you live? I'll come around, you tell me why not?

[Bagpuss]

As you may know I work with your mate Kev and from what he has told me the one thing you are not is a quitter. In another thread I offered apologies to you because I thought I had gone to far but reading Staggeringmans comments maybe he's the one who should be retracting his statement.
As you are to the left on politics I will never totally agree with you but I'm always open to debate and if someone gives a good arguement I will change my opinion as I have with the Panopticon. At first I was totally against it but now I'm half way, I would prefer another site and I hate the design that we are being shown but I can see that funding is needed and if it means a silly ring of circles then so be it.

Staggeringman I think you are well out of order, verging on bully boy tactics !!!

[WillowTheWhisp]

Originally Posted by Graham Jones

The Pals never used the trenches. They were there in the 40's to stop Jerry landings by plane and for soldiers to train. So I am stold back in 1914 it was Accy Golf Club, you can still see what appears to be the greens for Golf from higher up. There is nothing natural about the type of ecology there, eg the horrible conifer plantation. Decidous woodland and pasture grasses exist at higher altitude only a few hundred yards away. However what is there now is spolit by a grafiti covered shelter and worn monument, all accessed by ad hoc paths which are eroding the site. Some of the early schemes would have removed that shelter.

I think we've already queried exactly what the trenches are/were and when they were created. I don't know anything about a golf club but would be fascinated to find out. I guess that makes me one of the "all our yesterdays club" because I'm fascinated by history including local history.

I totally agree with you about the hideous conifers. It's a pity we couldn't have had a vote on them before they were planted and then possibly people who understood the natural flora of the area could have raised their objections and possibly prevented the planting, but then again maybe it would have just gone ahead any way.

I think the shelter should stay and be improved because the way the weather is around here that's the most useful thing up there.

The cabinet has promised itself to unlock funding for the coppice. We shall see. Funding is there and I would expect it around £300k plus Remade over 5 years. Remade have said No Panopticon no funding. Panopticon and the remade programme strats 2006. They are taking lead from the Regional Park who now have only £600k left from £5m as they have only 18 months to run. The Regional Park £5m was only got on the promise that investment would attract outside visitors money, ie part of a economic regeneration plan and path improvments alone did cut the mustard and hence the £5m bid would have failed.

Are you saying that the funding actually exists? Up to now we were under the impression that this was some hypothetical possibility depending on the attracting of sponsors following the creating of a panopticon.

Anyway it is now the Coppice Project and the Panopticon itself is barely mentioned. I believe public opinion has swung Conservative thinking in favour.Possibly again another reflection of the wider held view of the public rather than the lobbyists who over played their importance and lost ground by narrowing their arguments to their own agenda rather than take on board some of the things said by those in favour.

I am willing to be persuaded if anything I hear carries enough weight to convince me that my opinion is wrong or misguided. If for instance a panopticon were to be offered that I felt would enhance the area then I wouldn't simply object to it because it's a panopticon. I would prefer it to be located elsewhere than on the Coppice but from what you say it doesn't sound like there's much chance of that.

It doesn't ssurprise me that the subject never came up when canvassing door to door. When I've mentioned the panopticon to people a lot have looked blank and said "what?" or "what's a panopticon?"

Incidentally no-one came round here either.

[Busman747]

Graham, I, like Margaret P. enjoy reading your points of view on the accyweb and should you ever decide to stop your input, it would make the accyweb that much poorer.......HOWEVER! You say: "But nothing gets learnt from people who have a closed mind, fixed agenda and who cant handle others opinion."

This is certainly true but bear in mind that YOU have made sweeping statements about the politics of Accywebbers in general! It is your privilege as an individual to argue on-line with another member...but to paint all and sundry with the same brush is sure to antagonise.

I totally agree with Staggeringman in that the Panopticon should not be put on the coppice nor anywhere else. You say: "Its not local money. Its outside money" and that is my argument!

I care not for your politics, you are outside my influence BUT I detest quango's that spend £millions of pounds throughout the country (and YES, it IS our money!) and pocket vast fortunes into their own pockets for doing so. Quango's are made up of wealthy egotistical prats that are urged to find reasons to squander vast sums of money on useless projects and try to convince locals that they are SO lucky to have this project thrust upon them!

You also say: "We knocked on 4000 voters doors and the Panopiticons never came up once. Most strange if you read Accy Web!!!!".....not strange at all considering the ratio of Accywebbers to the population of Hyndburn, and perhaps the population in general are more worried about loutish behaviour, lack of medical treatment on the N.H.S, and other general issues. Just because the Panopticon is not on their "crucial" worry list, It does not automatically give it the "green light"

One more comment from you, : "However what is there now is spolit by a grafiti covered shelter and worn monument, all accessed by ad hoc paths which are eroding the site. Some of the early schemes would have removed that shelter."
Can YOU or anyone else guarantee that finance will be found for the upkeep and security of the Panopticon? Of course not! What ever is put there will be ruined within just a few years. THIS is why locals (and most accy webbers) object to our money being spent!

[Graham Jones]

Originally Posted by Busman747

Graham, I, like Margaret P. enjoy reading your points of view on the accyweb and should you ever decide to stop your input, it would make the accyweb that much poorer.......HOWEVER! You say: "But nothing gets learnt from people who have a closed mind, fixed agenda and who cant handle others opinion."

This is certainly true but bear in mind that YOU have made sweeping statements about the politics of Accywebbers in general! It is your privilege as an individual to argue on-line with another member...but to paint all and sundry with the same brush is sure to antagonise.

I also said that I am not always right. Your right, sweeping statements are dangerous territory when used in the absolute.

Originally Posted by Busman747

[b][color=blue]I totally agree with Staggeringman in that the Panopticon should not be put on the coppice nor anywhere else. You say: "Its not local money. Its outside money" and that is my argument!

I care not for your politics, you are outside my influence BUT I detest quango's that spend £millions of pounds throughout the country (and YES, it IS our money!) and pocket vast fortunes into their own pockets for doing so. Quango's are made up of wealthy egotistical prats that are urged to find reasons to squander vast sums of money on useless projects and try to convince locals that they are SO lucky to have this project thrust upon them!

Outside money local money, still tax payers money. I am not saying your wrong but your perspective implies no difference. tax payer loses. however hyndburns fortunes will vary. our money will get spent, just somewhere else. Quangos are a Tory Tony thing. Maggie loved em... keeps the Labour Town Hall fiefdoms at bay. Tony loves em...keeps the Labour Town Hall fiefdoms at bay. Locally Nigel Rix loved em... keeps the Labour Town Hall fiefdoms at bay and Tories love em [cept PB] ...keeps the Labour Town Hall fiefdoms at bay. Next quango to appear, stock transfer...

Originally Posted by Busman747

You also say: "We knocked on 4000 voters doors and the Panopiticons never came up once. Most strange if you read Accy Web!!!!".....not strange at all considering the ratio of Accywebbers to the population of Hyndburn, and perhaps the population in general are more worried about loutish behaviour, lack of medical treatment on the N.H.S, and other general issues. Just because the Panopticon is not on their "crucial" worry list, It does not automatically give it the "green light"

Your right. Thats why the public meetings were important in gauging opinion.

Originally Posted by Busman747

One more comment from you, : "However what is there now is spolit by a grafiti covered shelter and worn monument, all accessed by ad hoc paths which are eroding the site. Some of the early schemes would have removed that shelter."
Can YOU or anyone else guarantee that finance will be found for the upkeep and security of the Panopticon? Of course not! What ever is put there will be ruined within just a few years. THIS is why locals (and most accy webbers) object to our money being spent!

I am tempted to favour No. No upkeep money beyond a small allocation in the funding. Two things come from that. If you run away from everything thats looks a problem, you'll get nowhere. Thats one danger sign. Secondly if it gets status, then it should receive, be able to more easily get funding eg Nature Reserve. In life hard work and a willingness to progress is the gateway to success.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Originally Posted by Graham Jones

In life hard work and a willingness to progress is the gateway to success.

I totally agree with that statement but would like to add a little quote to it

"Speed is not as important as the direction in which you travel"

Before we set off at full-tilt lets be sure we know where we're heading and that it's really where we want to go.

[Graham Jones]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

I totally agree with that statement but would like to add a little quote to it

"Speed is not as important as the direction in which you travel"

Before we set off at full-tilt lets be sure we know where we're heading and that it's really where we want to go.

Thats fine. I accept that. I feel we have come full circle. I said PB was using it as a political football and not making th effort to look into it. So we have wasted 18 months best part of and some critics have got hot and bothered and all of us have only got half the facts. Peter Clarke is the Councils man on the ELP. The hub of this program.

[PurpleLass]

Originally Posted by Busman747

Can YOU or anyone else guarantee that finance will be found for the upkeep and security of the Panopticon? Of course not! What ever is put there will be ruined within just a few years. THIS is why locals (and most accy webbers) object to our money being spent!

This is one issue that concerns me too, and as you all know I'm in favour of the project. However, what worries me most is the not so veiled threats from members of Accy Web who have threatened to dig it up after it was built. We all worry about vandals and the bikers that use the coppice could well rip into it it but from the sounds of it there are plans afoot to spoil it from within these threads. So Busman747 can you guarantee that no harm will come to it from so called respectable members of society who have an axe to grind?

[cashman]

not in favour of panoptican ideas that have been given so far,at the same time not against it.think you should remain on accy web,aint got you down as a quitter. i don't think i run you down,maybe you do,i run your opinions down if i don't agree thats nowt personal an i would hope you see it like that,i also praise opinions if i agree. thats nowt personal either,iv'e only met about 3 people on accy web so its not a colusion of any sort,i'm not a god,but i call a spade a spade. not always correct-but who is?think when people can't give opinions were in the old soviet union.

[Busman747]

Originally Posted by PurpleLass

This is one issue that concerns me too, and as you all know I'm in favour of the project. However, what worries me most is the not so veiled threats from members of Accy Web who have threatened to dig it up after it was built. We all worry about vandals and the bikers that use the coppice could well rip into it it but from the sounds of it there are plans afoot to spoil it from within these threads. So Busman747 can you guarantee that no harm will come to it from so called respectable members of society who have an axe to grind?

Why should I Purplelass? I am a mere resident exercising my right to agree/disagree with local and central funding. I do not want the Panopticon built but if (or should I say when) it is built, I wouldn't hesitate to phone the police if I witnessed vandalism caused by yobs or Accy webbers although those comments that you call "veiled threats" were taken by me as tongue-in-cheek.

Having met the majority of local Accywebbers, I can't think of one that is likely to find the time to go to the coppice with vandalism in mind. Perhaps you could indicate which villains-to-be you are thinking of?