The DNA database... - Page 4

Less · 23-02-2008, 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boeing Guy

To bring this thread back to where it started. Loz talked about extreme cases.

Well just over 60 years ago if you were Jewish in a european country you were forced to wear a Star of David on your outer garments, these poor people were treated to horrific crimes against humanity, all because of religion.

Now let us say we have a rather strong Right Wing government in power, say the one Nick Griffin is the leader of. You now know the ethnic origin of every single one of us, so you now have the power to round up people who don't conform to your ideals.
It has happend before and over 6,000,000 people were murdered, we start down this slippery slope it will happen again.
This argument about crime, is utter rubbish, DNA alone cannot be used to convict, all it shows is that you were in the area, or you touched someone at the time. And finally do you REALLY, REALLY trust this or any future government with your most personal details, your biological database, the blueprint to your being. I don't

No-one will deny, (unless they are really warped), that what happened to the Jews, Gypsies, Homosexuals, political enemies, should ever be allowed to happen again.

But if you or I or 99.999% of the 'British' population had our origins traced using DNA none of us, not one, well perhaps the idiot that had to wear the Dunces hat and stand in the corner, (you can come out now Blazey.

), would be of pure blood.
So let's hope we don't ever go down that road or we are all going to have to wear something to signify where we came from.

jambutty · 23-02-2008, 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Less

If a DNA data base or Identity cards where to be used to prevent crime, then I say bring it on, (anything that stops even one rape or murder must be worthwhile), but if it is just going to be used to keep law abiding citizens in line, then I'm against it.

If the Authorities want to keep my details on a data base so that my, your, everyones daughter is safer from attack, it is a good thing, (I for one would be in a queue voluntarily if that helped them stop some sick soul from being allowed to strike again).
If however they want me to pay for it, forget it, you can stick your I.D. card where the sun don't shine, if it's important enough to issue then issue it, if I also have to pay for it, take me to court 'cos I ain't going to!

A touch contrary I know, but it shouldn't be considered as an expense that needs to be suffered by the individual, it should be offered like a badge of honour, look at me I've been to the DNA centre had all the tests and they have issued me a card saying I've a clean bill of health.

People seem to be labouring under a false illusion if they think that a DNA database will prevent a crime. It will only prevent a crime if a person is apprehended because of DNA evidence and is banged up for it. But it won’t prevent the criminal from committing another crime after being released.

If the statistics for the last 20 years are anything to go by as one crook is banged up or dies there is at least one newcomer taking to a life of crime. How would a DNA database prevent a new crook from committing an offence?

As for ID cards, we won’t be paying for them once but TWICE. Where do you think the cost of setting up the system comes from? Taxpayers’ money!

NO to a DNA database and NO to ID cards.

jambutty · 23-02-2008, 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosencrantz

I think it's impossible to have one without the other. The police are there to stop crime, but they also keep law-abiding citizens in line. My issue is that this is like a balance - how much freedom do you want to give up to stop crime. The problem is that if we say that anything that stops one rape or murder is worthwhile then that allows crazy amounts of personal intervention. What about being filmed while you're getting changed at a swimming pool? What about being filmed on the toilet in case you do something untoward?

That's not a direction I want to head in.

It’s not the police that keep law abiding citizens in line. It is the fact that they are law abiding that keeps them in line.

Trentster · 23-02-2008, 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosencrantz

A DNA database is too much of a sacrifice of personal liberty to justify solving a few cases, in my opinion. It's one step away from simply videotaping everyone constantly so we solve every single crime ever.

To quote Benjamin Franklin, "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

You've obviously never needed DNA results to prove a crime.......you only need to look in todays papers to prove that it does and should work....

jambutty · 23-02-2008, 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Aren't we at war now?

If you believe Bush and Blair yes we are – at war with terrorism. But that is not the same as fighting another country.

Rosencrantz · 23-02-2008, 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trentster

You've obviously never needed DNA results to prove a crime.......you only need to look in todays papers to prove that it does and should work....

You're right, but a database of everyone, criminal or innocent, is an invasion of privacy in my opinion.

garinda · 23-02-2008, 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty

If you believe Bush and Blair yes we are – at war with terrorism. But that is not the same as fighting another country.

The mothers, fathers, spouses, and children of solidiers killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, might disagree with you on that one.

Rosencrantz · 23-02-2008, 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty

If you believe Bush and Blair yes we are – at war with terrorism. But that is not the same as fighting another country.

Haha, yes. I wonder how we kill terrorism? Does it have something we can shoot at? Where should we send the nuke to destroy terrorism? Ludicrous

Neil · 23-02-2008, 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosencrantz

Haha, yes. I wonder how we kill terrorism? Does it have something we can shoot at? Where should we send the nuke to destroy terrorism? Ludicrous

I can see you are a newish member mate so I will give you some some advice, don't bother replying to jambutty. He is always right and becomes grumpy and rather ignorant if you suggest he is wrong.

WillowTheWhisp · 23-02-2008, 18:10

Does this men Cyfr is Guildenstern?

I'm not too fond of DNA since the 'proof' that a woman gave birth to children who weren't hers!

andrewb · 23-02-2008, 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

Does this men Cyfr is Guildenstern?

Haha, It was an option!

Rosencrantz · 23-02-2008, 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil

I can see you are a newish member mate so I will give you some some advice, don't bother replying to jambutty. He is always right and becomes grumpy and rather ignorant if you suggest he is wrong.

I was actually agreeing with him there - starting a war against something as vague as "terrorism" is a little absurd!

Less · 23-02-2008, 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil

I can see you are a newish member mate so I will give you some some advice, don't bother replying to jambutty. He is always right and becomes grumpy and rather ignorant if you suggest he is wrong.

If I knew how to spell it, I'd accuse you of being a calumniator! Shame on you Neil!

katex · 23-02-2008, 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

I'm not too fond of DNA since the 'proof' that a woman gave birth to children who weren't hers!

Can't stop science moving on Willow, how the politicians use it is the question at the end of the day.

Still middle of the road on this as yet, some good opinions though.

WillowTheWhisp · 23-02-2008, 18:32

No you can't stop science moving on but you can stop regarding DNA evidence as being totally infallible which is what we are being led to believe. It isn't. It's far from that.