The value of public funded art

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by garinda

.
As for fees, I worked for money, that people thought I was worth.

There you go, can I have the cream cakes then

[garinda]

Has the music been decided on yet, for the Victorian Swimming Gala?

If not, may I suggest a nice, traditional hymn?

[garinda]

Originally Posted by jaysay

There you go, can I have the cream cakes then

The only cream cakes I saw, were the ones I saw for sale, as I squashed my face against the shop window.

So tuck in.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by garinda

The only cream cakes I saw, were the ones I saw for sale, as I squashed my face against the shop window.

So tuck in.

I'm not having that I bet you were a real rascal when you were young, all those lovely cakes

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by garinda

Ordinarily, she'd teach 333 people, at £3.00 per half hour, as priced on her website, to earn £1,000.00, (actually it's £999.00).

But she's not teaching 333 people for just half an hour. She's teaching 200 people for six hours. Which would cost £7,200.

Originally Posted by garinda

So we, the public, can try and evaluate the worth of the project, are you saying that the costs involved for the whole flash mob dance is £1,000.00?

Absolutely no other funding costs?

No other costs.

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by garinda

Besides how she'd ordinarily have to earn £1,000.00, since we now know how many dancers she's taught the flash mob dance to, where did the recruit of the 200 take place, and where were they taught? Did her fee cover all the costs involved, studio space etc?

I don't remember seeing the lessons being advertised, virally or not.

Perhaps I just missed it, as I also missed seeing the role of creative director of arts in Hyndburn, ever being advertised, as is the norm.

I recruited the groups. In order to get large groups of people involved, community groups that work with young people and schools were invited to put forward groups who might like to be involved.

Teaching is done at community venues i.e. Arts Centre, New Era, Clayton Youth Club and at the schools involved.

My role has evolved from the role that I applied for three years ago. The job was advertised three years ago and I applied and got it. I have been through this conversation with you before and explained quite clearly how I got the job. It was always intended, and was clearly in my contract from day one, that as the job evolved my role would take over the running of the Arts Centre once building was complete.

[Barrie Yates]

Originally Posted by Gayle

But she's not teaching 333 people for just half an hour. She's teaching 200 people for six hours. Which would cost £7,200.

Originally Posted by Gayle

No other costs.

If they want to learn to dance let them pay for it like I did out of my paper round money instead of freeloading and providing you with - what should we call it? Satisfaction? salary? self gratification? or just abuse from the majority of people that have responded to this thread, in which case you must be in serious danger of becoming a serial masochist.

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth

Garinda, the problem with a lot of people in the 'Arts'(and a lot of teachers I found) is that their connection with the real world is a little tenuous. They live in a parallel universe and feel they have a sacred duty to show us ordinary mortals the 'way'.
Has Hyndburn ever been asked what art it wants? I think the first requirement would be FREE.

One of the reasons why I try to get the funding that I get is so that things can be FREE.

But everything costs - how could the Haworth Art Gallery stay open? It needs money to pay wages, have heating and lighting and to host exhibitions. It is free for the public to enter and see the artworks within but it is not free to run. There would be absolute outrage if the council tried to sell off all the Tiffany glass and close the place. So the council must maintain it and keep it open.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Gayle

But she's not teaching 333 people for just half an hour. She's teaching 200 people for six hours. Which would cost £7,200.



No other costs.

Yes.

All I'm pointing out that in her life AWAY from the world of subsidised art grants, and according to the fees quoted on her own website, she'd have to teach 333 people, paying £3.00 each for a half hour class, to earn the equivalent fee she's being paid by whoever, to teach however many people this flash mob dance.

Nice work, if you can get it.

So we are being informed the total costs for producing this flash mob event is just the dance teacher's £1,000.00, and there are no other costs involved, rehearsal spaces etc, she's covering those?

Well that's some small mercy, even if the most successful of these type of happenings cost nowt, and especially not a penny to tax payer.

What funds have been awarded to the Victorian Swimming Gala? Again to help us ponder the worth and value of state funded community arts, and whilst we are discussing money.

[katex]

Originally Posted by Barrie Yates

If they want to learn to dance let them pay for it like I did out of my paper round money instead of freeloading and providing you with - what should we call it? Satisfaction? salary? self gratification? or just abuse from the majority of people that have responded to this thread, in which case you must be in serious danger of becoming a serial masochist.

That is a disgusting post, Barrie.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Gayle

My role has evolved from the role that I applied for three years ago. The job was advertised three years ago and I applied and got it. I have been through this conversation with you before and explained quite clearly how I got the job. It was always intended, and was clearly in my contract from day one, that as the job evolved my role would take over the running of the Arts Centre once building was complete.

Yes you did, again privately, even though the question as to your role was raised publicly, and it really should be a matter open to public scrutiny, if someone's being paid from the public purse.

Ther above post is not quiet how I remember your private answer to me, at the time.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, I was under the impression you'd told me the role was created for you, and that was as creative director for the arts centre, and if you hadn't canvassed those in power for the position, the arts in Hyndburn would be unsupported, and under represented.

I may be wrong, but I do have a very good memory. I'm also a terrible house keeper, so I've probably still have your explanation, and I could have a nose about, and see if I'm mistaken.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by katex

That is a disgusting post, Barrie.

Why, because it's his opinion, and not one you share?

Care to elaborate as to why it's 'disgusting'?

I'd never use that word, or hate, unless I really meant it.

It genuinely disgusts me that our money is being squandered on piffling charades, masquarading under the umberella of 'community arts', whilst at the same time, living in a society in which people die, because the N.H.S. say they haven't the funds to provide life saving treatments.

That truly disgusts me.

(Don't bother loking for a smiley to show how angry that makes me. There isn't one!)

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Gayle

One of the reasons why I try to get the funding that I get is so that things can be FREE.

But everything costs - how could the Haworth Art Gallery stay open? It needs money to pay wages, have heating and lighting and to host exhibitions. It is free for the public to enter and see the artworks within but it is not free to run. There would be absolute outrage if the council tried to sell off all the Tiffany glass and close the place. So the council must maintain it and keep it open.

You get funds that are soley provided by companies like Camelot, and as I sais earlier, you want hear a peep out of me.

More power to you.

When tax payers' money is being used, the public have the right to give their opinions, especially in a thread such as this, which asks people if they think such things are 'valuable'.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Gayle

One of the reasons why I try to get the funding that I get is so that things can be FREE.

But everything costs - how could the Haworth Art Gallery stay open? It needs money to pay wages, have heating and lighting and to host exhibitions. It is free for the public to enter and see the artworks within but it is not free to run. There would be absolute outrage if the council tried to sell off all the Tiffany glass and close the place. So the council must maintain it and keep it open.

They can't flog off the Tiffany glass, or ship it's care to Preston, even though it was confirmed (by Graham Jones) the council did look into the idea.

The present councillors we have, God love 'em, are merely acting as custodians of the collection, bequeathed to the people of the town of Accrington.

Happily there's enough binding covenants to ensure that the collections still here, when they are sadly not.

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by garinda

Yes you did, again privately, even though the question as to your role was raised publicly, and it really should be a matter open to public scrutiny, if someone's being paid from the public purse.

Ther above post is not quiet how I remember your private answer to me, at the time.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, I was under the impression you'd told me the role was created for you, and that was as creative director for the arts centre, and if you hadn't canvassed those in power for the position, the arts in Hyndburn would be unsupported, and under represented.

I may be wrong, but I do have a very good memory. I'm also a terrible house keeper, so I've probably still have your explanation, and I could have a nose about, and see if I'm mistaken.

It was all very public if I remember correctly.

I did help to create the role and I had lobbied for it. No one else was doing the Arts role and I got some lottery funding to help establish it. However, I did also have to apply for the job and it was advertised so if anyone better had shown up then presumably I'd have not got the job. It was all perfectly above board and in future, if I decide to step down, I shall make sure that you are sent a copy of the job advertisment, just in case you miss it again.

So please don't try to make out that I'm a liar, which is what you're clearly trying to do. If there is one thing that I try to do above all it's answer your posts as honestly as I can. I can't think of anyone else who is prepared to do this and put themselves under so much scrutiny but for some misguided reason, I actually believe that it's important that this discussion is held in the public arena. If you want me to shut up and go away then I'd be quite happy to.

And don't worry, I won't tell you anything else privately in future.

Oh, and if you're worried about the public purse paying my wage for much longer, it won't. As from the end of March the only way that I will get paid is if the Arts Centre is making a profit and there is enough to pay me. So, yes, I will be chasing every single bit of funding that is out there in order to earn a living.