Tough Plans for Young Jobless

[BERNADETTE]

Originally Posted by polly

As an employer I strongly object to your comments about any employer preferring people on below minimum wage
Stop immigration and you must expect other countries to do likewise which will lead to a lot of Brits who have emigrated or who intend to being very upset, including myself as this is my long term aim.

Britain has got become more competitive, this is not helped by Nat Min Wage or the Benefits Culture. We need to except responsability for our own lives sand those of our children

Apologize for lumping all employees together but we have to be realistic here and most of them when employing unskilled labour will go for the cheaper option.
The National Minimum wage means nothing when people are coming from other countries and working for less than that. People have fought long and hard to make being employed as safe as possible and now it is all for nothing. Some employers are expecting people to work twelve hour shifts seven days a week and in this day and age nobody should have to work all those hours.

[polly]

Originally Posted by BERNADETTE

Apologize for lumping all employees together but we have to be realistic here and most of them when employing unskilled labour will go for the cheaper option.
The National Minimum wage means nothing when people are coming from other countries and working for less than that. People have fought long and hard to make being employed as safe as possible and now it is all for nothing. Some employers are expecting people to work twelve hour shifts seven days a week and in this day and age nobody should have to work all those hours.

Actually the NMW means a lot to people who come from 'abroad' . Yes in some instances it means that they can undercut the local workforce, work all hours for peanuts and be grateful for it, but not in all cases. In some cases it means the hope4 of a better life for which they are prepared to work, which is more than some of the natives who want us all th keep them for nothing.
Personally, I have the greatest respect for these ;foreigners' who are prepared to work hard and put in some effort, without screeming about their 'human rights'. Btw I do not employ anyone below national minimum wage rates, indeed I employ no on or below these rates and I do not employ anyone who is not a British National although a few of my employees or from asian heritage because I find their morals are more in line with the companies ethos

[BERNADETTE]

The NMW also means a lot to a lot of British Nationals too and why should they work for less? Yes I do agree that a lot of people will sit back and be kept but by the same token there are people desperate for jobs who can't get them.

[polly]

Originally Posted by BERNADETTE

The NMW also means a lot to a lot of British Nationals too and why should they work for less? Yes I do agree that a lot of people will sit back and be kept but by the same token there are people desperate for jobs who can't get them.

Why should they work for less? Mainly because a lot of them simply arn't worth what the law demands they are paid, hence they just don't get a job at all
As for people desperate for job, there may be some but there are a hell of a lot that do not want to work. A few years ago I interviewed someone and when I asked her why she had applied for the job she said, 'cos me mum said I had to'.

Employers should be able to pay what the employee is worth. Many small companies now avoid taking on employees and there is nothing being done to reverse this trend.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by polly

Employers should be able to pay what the employee is worth..

on that basis then, i can presume you are paying above national average then? if so yer one of a few.

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by garinda

They've been tried before, and failed.

I do apologise, it turns out it has been tried before. It was implemented in New York and over a decade it reduced unemployment from 3million to 1.3million.

[polly]

Originally Posted by cashman

on that basis then, i can presume you are paying above national average then? if so yer one of a few.

Yes, off the top of my head all my staff are paid above NMW, the professionals are paid well above that, the unqualified average about 7.00 or 7.50 per hour., less of course for those under 18 (only one of those).

I pay these rates because I havnt got time or the energy to keep replacing staff, and it works
We have in this country a NMW culture whereby staff know that regardless of what they do, where they do it and how well or badly they do it they will get the same wage. The consequence of this is they put no effort and enthusiasm into their work, you can see this particularly in the Service Sector

[garinda]

Originally Posted by andrewb

I do apologise, it turns out it has been tried before. It was implemented in New York and over a decade it reduced unemployment from 3million to 1.3million.

So if unemployed people are on these schemes the figures will be massaged to look like they are in a job, when in fact they are just on this programme?

Yes, you're right, that's what the various schemes in the eighties did here, when we had over three million unemployed, the figures were played about with.

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by garinda

So if unemployed people are on these schemes the figures will be massaged to look like they are in a job, when in fact they are just on this programme?

Yes, you're right, that's what the various schemes in the eighties did here, when we had over three million unemployed, the figures were played about with.

I didn't say that at all. Please try to stop confusing this with schemes in the eighties. They're not the same.

It's not included as a job when you're on the scheme, as you still recieve benefits. Even if it was, the scheme is once only, so over 10 years the statistics are pretty clear. It works.

[jaysay]

It now seems that the Tories will insist that people being releast from prison will have to look for work and not just go striaght back on the dole, which seems good in theory, but I have my doubts if it will work in practice, lots of employers won't take on ex-cons, and a lot of ex-cons go back to their bad old ways. Its the old catch 22 position

[garinda]

Originally Posted by andrewb

I didn't say that at all. Please try to stop confusing this with schemes in the eighties. They're not the same.

It's not included as a job when you're on the scheme, as you still recieve benefits. Even if it was, the scheme is once only, so over 10 years the statistics are pretty clear. It works.

You've supplied no evidence that this scheme is in anyway different from the ones tried in the eighties, nor have you specified exactly what work in the community the people will be doing, so we have no way of knowing if people's genuine jobs will be at risk because of this unpaid workforce.

I'd honestly love to say I thought they'd come up with something new to tackle this very real problem, but I don't think it is, nor would I consider it a tough enough approach.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by polly

Yes, off the top of my head all my staff are paid above NMW, the professionals are paid well above that, the unqualified average about 7.00 or 7.50 per hour., less of course for those under 18 (only one of those).

I pay these rates because I havnt got time or the energy to keep replacing staff, and it works
We have in this country a NMW culture whereby staff know that regardless of what they do, where they do it and how well or badly they do it they will get the same wage. The consequence of this is they put no effort and enthusiasm into their work, you can see this particularly in the Service Sector

good on yer, pity there aint more about.

[Less]

Originally Posted by polly

Yes, off the top of my head all my staff are paid above NMW, the professionals are paid well above that, the unqualified average about 7.00 or 7.50 per hour., less of course for those under 18 (only one of those).

I pay these rates because I havnt got time or the energy to keep replacing staff, and it works
We have in this country a NMW culture whereby staff know that regardless of what they do, where they do it and how well or badly they do it they will get the same wage. The consequence of this is they put no effort and enthusiasm into their work, you can see this particularly in the Service Sector

If only all employers could be encouraged to see this as a worthwhile way to treat their employees, (of any age and skill level).
Then perhaps because of the hope of a long term 'secure' job with decent rewards, more people would be interested in getting out there and supporting themselves.

The old adage, 'if you pay peanuts you get monkeys', just like the employer hopes to have a long term and profitable business, the employee wants to work for a fair return and be able to plan for his/her future.

These two things aught to run in parallel that would benefit us all, there will always be a small amount of people preferring not to work, just as there will always be some employers ready to take advantage of using such schemes rather than putting some effort into creating 'proper jobs'.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Less

If only all employers could be encouraged to see this as a worthwhile way to treat their employees, (of any age and skill level).
Then perhaps because of the hope of a long term 'secure' job with decent rewards, more people would be interested in getting out there and supporting themselves.

The old adage, 'if you pay peanuts you get monkeys', just like the employer hopes to have a long term and profitable business, the employee wants to work for a fair return and be able to plan for his/her future.

These two things aught to run in parallel that would benefit us all, there will always be a small amount of people preferring not to work, just as there will always be some employers ready to take advantage of using such schemes rather than putting some effort into creating 'proper jobs'.

best post on this subject IMHO,

[BERNADETTE]

Originally Posted by Less

If only all employers could be encouraged to see this as a worthwhile way to treat their employees, (of any age and skill level).
Then perhaps because of the hope of a long term 'secure' job with decent rewards, more people would be interested in getting out there and supporting themselves.

The old adage, 'if you pay peanuts you get monkeys', just like the employer hopes to have a long term and profitable business, the employee wants to work for a fair return and be able to plan for his/her future.

These two things aught to run in parallel that would benefit us all, there will always be a small amount of people preferring not to work, just as there will always be some employers ready to take advantage of using such schemes rather than putting some effort into creating 'proper jobs'.

Well said Less, karma sent