church
 

This section should be started off by Tealeaf, he's the man with the knowledge.

church
 

C'mon Tealeaf, we are waiting ......

Re: church
 

You know me..........I won't post anything unless its of the highest quality

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t \ea you should be mod. of this forum

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Nope........I'm a poacher, not a gamekeeper...........

Re: church
 

Mr Tealeaf, perhaps you may wish to contribute an over view of Church as it exist now and a potted history of what is. Just to open things up for those who may be interested, but have no ideal of where or what church is.

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Church is a very small but tight knit community, or at least it was when i lived there( my mum and step dad, and brother and sisters still do). Mainly known for the large church at the church kirk end, and the awful smell from the 'bone factory' :D

Church
 

Hi, here's an old postcard showing Church. Some scenes you may recognise.

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I remember when Church had shops.

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Does anyone remember that strange "cough" couple who had a sweet shop and if they were not serving in the shop they were blowing bubbles..I was a kid back then and I used to think freeky..hope they dont turn out to be anyones relatives on this board appologies if they are but they sure were strange folks..Linda..the snotty nosed kid who hung round church 60's & 70s

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Pheonixx, we're around the same age? ish. Where was you at Church say early 60s.

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You're talking about the people at the junk shop at the corner of Henry street & Barnes Street. She ended up being fished out of the canal at Church, he remarried about 6 weeks later and a month after that he was dead, if I recall.

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That wasn't the blind chap who ran the news agents opposite where the chippy is now is it? :D

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Doug I was brought up in Leyland street but did most of my hanging round in church with my brother Jimmy who I sadly lost to cancer aged 38 in 1999 ..I can think of a few names..John Bramwell {mum & dad had a wallpaper shop** Roy Chatwood he once ran away from home and lived in the kilns and all the kids from miles around pinched food from their house to feed him .Jed Heath..hard as nails..LOL..Kim and Ian Potter ,Elaine Warden and her brother..lot of irish peeps..paddy my ex boyf..Fragie ,Pedro ,Cambels..and lots of others I cant just remember..Mick Mcmannus ,Pete flarety mum and dad had a chippy...lad we called nigger I think he was called Nigel..and lets not forget the Capsticks Malcom and Micheal lived near church trafic lights..in the 70s I was one of those pesky skinheads who hung round the triangle..so sorry if I bothered any of you I have grown up now LOL..Tealeaf I was sad to hear about the sad demise of the strange couple they are a big part of my church memories as was the building of Joseph Arnolds building..seeing lady Di open it..the swing bridge near the canal..the grave stones opening at church kirk and all us kids taking a look then running like mad to get away..nipping over the wall at the cross keys to nick their emptys then taking them back to get the money on the bottles..then last but least getting caught by the Armstrong clan for being on their territory and getting a good beating..then on to fond memories of me dad Bert Banks a well know Church character who could be seen up to his death sitting on the bench at the side of the Commercial with who he called the lads..all in their 80s and sadly all dead now..RIP owd fellas who were all Dunkirk veterans..Linda

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Not the commercial..it was the Queens..sorry

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Remember the capsticks. They had the shop there then, they went to St Andrews school when I did. Dick passed away recently, didn't he. Also remember Elaine Warden, and her twin brother Anthony. He went on holiday with us once. They lived on Bradshaw St a few doors up from us. The oldest brother was Alan I think, he was a butcher and used to bring us cheap meat. Think he still has a shop in Harwood, near the cop shop. Still see Elaine occasionally, usually in the Stag.
A few more names:
Lynne Cornwall, Susan Shaw from the off licence, the Croasdales - who used to live on the corner of wesley St till the house collapsed.

Anyone remember the little old lady on China St, Cassie, who everyone thought was dotty? I used to run errands for her.Or the lady in the big house at the back of the old Sacred Heart School, was that Mrs Aspin.
Who used to play on top of the garages on China St when they were there?
:)

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I Remember the capsticks, and of course the armstrongs. Can any one remember the James's. Betty & harold, Kath and Jeff.

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Cazzer I remember all these people and places you mentioned..the old lady with the willow tree behind the school was a very freindly kind old soul and I used to visit her often..I used to hang round with John Cornwall I think Lynn was his older sister and the Emblys..yep I used to play on those garages too I remember the paint splashes and I have remembered a few more names on China street was the bonnys and kath and John Hazelwood their dad had some sort of garage on China street..also I went to st Andrews from 1963-1969.
Doug I dont know any of those names sorry.

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I remember Malcolm Capstick and his brother Mike both went to Rhyddings and had a reputation for bullying I personaly never had a problem with them but if the kids were smaller then them watch out, I think they used to live at the second hand shop in Church.

Re: Church
 

Lovely postcard Atarah...

The part showing "Foxhill Bank Drive" is actually Coach Road, as it goes under the railway bridge. I've never heard of it being called Foxhill Bank Drive though.

To Pheonix and a couple of others. I lived On Oswald St, then Henry St, before moving to India St. I remember Elaine Warden who lived down the "Croft" and her brother Alan.

Does anybody remember Peter Jordan, who lived right at the top of Church Kirk Lane and ran a Poultry Business on the path down to the "Dunk". Maybe I'm a bit older and going back to the 50's, I also went to St. Andrews, but left in 1956.

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Opppss did you live on India street in the 1970s Darby if you did sorry for the noise and stuff for some unknown reason we liked to hang out on the swings there it was known back then as the triangle..we could get served cider at that selling out shop and we used to for reasons better known to ourselfs fight the irish but only after we had drink the cider lol they were a tough lot back then..perhaps they still are LOL..Linda

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Forgot a few there Linda.What about the 2 Irish brothers, one called Bulldog,Lynda your mat and Julie not to mention the Browns that lived on Leyland street.Memory lane or what

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You're OK ....I left India St. in 1960/61 and moved to the more select neighbourhood of Dill Hall. I lived at No. 31 right next to the selling-out shop. We didn't have swings on the tri-angle either...just dog s**t and grass.

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Lived on Blackpool street for a year and that is my only claim to Church

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Hello everyone i used to live in the hardware shop next to the butchers nellie and harry ran that shop 1966 to 1970 all i can remember is the coal dep and the canal being covered with oil.I used to go down church streetn singing knock thee times onthe celling at 7 o clock in the morning with a girl can rememberhere name.iI was only 4 at the time.

Old view of Church
 

Here's a very old view before our times, but you will recognise something I am sure!

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That is a brilliant photograph Atarah. Any idea when it was taken?

Of course I recognise the building on the right but not much else. All those different sizes and shapes of buildings explain why there is such a variety of bricked up windows and doors in the wall along there.

I'd still love to know what the double arched window along therewas part of. Any ideas?

I'm trying to work out where it is in comparison to this photo.

Looking back on these old photos makes me realise how much character we've lost. Market Street looks very narrow.

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That piccy is brilliant, Atarah...........dare I ask, any more like it?

The picture was taken some time after 1901, because that is when the traway was electrified (fom the mid-1880's until then coal powered trams ran this route). We can see its's electrified from the overhead power lines. In addition, it was taken before 1911 when the council offces at Church were built (the date stone is still on the site...Im pretty sure it's 1911, from memory.)

The next question is...is it before or after 1907? That is the year in which the trams were extended up to Ossy. If we could see the lines swinging to the left, we could say it's post 1907...but we can't. So does this make it pre-1907? Not neccessarily so....the problem lies in the angle of the camera. While we can see the warehouse immeadiatly to the right, we can't really judge how far back the Commercial is extending, which raises a question mark about the identity of the street on the left. If that is Market street, then we know that it is pre-1907; if it is not Market street, but is in fact a back street to Market Street, then we are still uncertain because we cannot see the aerations made to Market Street, namely the curvingof the buildings to allow the Trams to go round.

The other fasinating point about this picture is the sign above the large lamp to the left.. -"Telephones". Was this a mobile phone shop for Church in 1907? Obviously not, but it may well have been the post office, not that many yards from where it is currently located.

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Cazzer, didn't one of the Capsticks open a posh hairdressers in Accy in the 60s? I seem to remember going there, it was a lot more expensive than Maison Dorothea - but it wasn't a bad hairdo. With Dorothea, it seemed that whatever you asked her to do, you always came out looking the same! Anybody else out there have their first perm from Dorothea (no, not you Tealeaf!). She was in Market Street, but then moved round to Blackburn Road, next to the woolshop (or was it the other way round?)

church
 

Thanks for all that info on the photo Tealeaf, thats what you call "putting flesh on the bones"

Hope this one inspires you as well

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Cheers Atarah...the second photo confirms the date of the first now as being between 1901 and 1906/7 because we now know the street on the left is Market Street. The second piccy, is of course of Market Street, looking from Church towards Ossy. We can be much more specific about the date of this picture because we can see hoarding on the left (previously the site of the telephone shop with the lamp). The hoarding, of course, is there as alteratons are made to curve the building for trams to go round, and we know the tramlines from Church to Ossy werel aid in 1906/7.

Just going back to the first piccy, though....can anyone spot the pub? Not to difficult really...it's the Navigation Arms and it's the building with the bloke stood outside, just on the right hand side of the piccy. Als, no longer with us.

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Going back to the forties our family doctors surgery was under the traffic lights at church facing what was the thenthe churchcouncil offices facing the other side a row of shops and the bus stop to accrington The doctors name I think was pare and our family stayed patients till he died

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Navigation Arms named after the canal I presume? Could that have been the building with the double arched windows? I can't see too clearly on the photograph I'm afraid.

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Correct Keith, you still have a good memory!

I also use to go to see Dr. Pear...his practice was taken over by Dr. Tuxford sometime in the mid to late 50's. The Bank was on the opposite side of Blackburn road to the doctors surgery.

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There was another Bank in Market Street, by the bus stop, opposite the Post Office. I worked there.It was great fun. The cellar was liable to flooding and we constantly had to have a pump running to keep the water out. Once or twice it failed and we'd be down there paddling about knee deep in water! We used to have to keep things above a certain level to make sure they would stay dry.

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Didn't that become a Building Society branch office later?? Halifax or something??

It was just up from the bus stop if I remember rightly!

Willow...I didn't know Cellar Paddling was great fun?

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I'm not sure about that because I transferred to another branch and never went back there. It's been demolished since and is now the site of "Alleytroyds" I don't know if they still get the same stink from Blythes that we used to get in the Bank (or when the wind was in the opposite direction a nice aroma of bone boiling from the glue factory) The chrome fittings on the front door were very pitted too which made you wonder what on earth was in the air.

The demise of the Bank came with the closure of places like Rothwells which used to supply half of our custom.

Ah those were the days, butties at dinner time from Carley's - "built" to specification with as much mustard as you could handle.

Not in the smelly water we got down there it wasn't !!:D

to Willowthewhispchurch
 

Hi, tried here to show you the Navigation Arms, well, I think it is. Wont be too clear, but might help you to decipher which building Tealeaf meant. Atarah :)

Re: church
 

Well that certainly doesn't have any arched windows.

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Dr Pear delivered about half of the inhabitants in Church before he retired. He could be seen at Old Trafford, in his Panama hat, at every major match, so goodness knows how he found the time.

Keith Tuxford took over from him, as Darby says. They all seemed to be one-man practices in those days. Anyone remember that awful old gas ring with the pan with the rubber tubing and needles boiling in it? - smelt awful, but was probably (hopefully) sterile! In those days, nobody got MRSA (never even heard of it then). Perhaps we should go back to our old sterilisers with the Cheatles forceps, Lettie? - probably before your time!

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Willow - are you sure the smell came from the glue-boiling? I seem to remember Kirby's Funeral Parlour was just around there! - in fact, there were two of them, because I seem to remember that the son, Alan I think, fell out with his father and opened his own place almost opposite.

Re: to Willowthewhispchurch
 

The Navigation was further down than the buildings indicated in this picture. If you look at the original picture, you'll see (looking in the direction of Blackburn), 3 cottage type buildings, then a large building and then a building sticking out with a bit of a white wall by the side. There is one person, and possibly 2 more stood outside. This is the building I believe to be the Navigation pub.

Wood street used to rum from Market street, round the back of the old Con club, and emerge on Blackburn Rd more or less opposite the Eastern end of the Navigation. That street is still there, although I don't think it's named as such.
Willow, if you pop over there again and line yourrself on the canal side opposite that entrance on Blackburn Rd, then the area back towards Blackburn was the site of the Navigation. If your mysterious piece of wall is on the site then we know what it is; if not, then we shall have to continue enquiries.

The three cottage type buildings, are of course, now the site of the wedding dress place.

Re: church
 

If the first pic here is the road you are referring to I think we're in the right place. There is another entry but that just seems to lead to a private area.(see second photo)

I took a few more photographs of the wall, (must learn to use less pixels so I can have a larger image) to see if we can work out what was what, but it's hard to get a good angle.

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Here's my bricked up double arched window again and you can see it is a window as the window sill is clearly visible. You can also see there seem to be corner stones of a building but then the stonework continues on - was the next building built later and tagged onto that one? There is no point along this wall where any part of it protrudes further out than the rest now. (as the pub did)

church
 

Hi, tried another time for you - is THIS the Navigation?#


I am lost with the picture of the filled in "window" (with not being a Church person) - please just where do you mean? You aren't looking at the wall that was part of Blythes are you, cos I used to work there, when we went for lunch near the weighbridge. Surely its not a blocked up window belonging to them?

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Willow, nice piccys, but none of them are what was wood street. The first one is the entrance to Coach Road and the second one is or was a drive way to the former railway sidings, which are now used to locate travellers. You need to come back at least 400 yds towards Church and past the former entrance to the Gas works. Blair Electronics use to be in the building on its corner nearest Church.

Wood Street: If you go on Market Street and stand at the front door of what was the Con Club. Immediately on your left is what can only be described as a ruined track, which was (last time I looked) full of rubbish and piles of soil etc. It goes directly to Blackburn road..and opposite it's exit to B'burn road stands what was the Navigators.

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Yes that's the Navigation!

My arched window is slightly round the bend. (Busman will probably tell you that it's like me in that case!! Out there yesterday evening photographing walls whilst passers by looked at me as if I'd gone totally mad.)

It is in the wall where there's a gate with a Blythe's sign on it. (It says "Emergency Access" or something like that.)

There is also this doorway which still has a door in it which leads through to Blythes. The main entrance is down Bridge Street but something at the back of my mind says the "Emergency Access" used to be a main entrance. Maybe it was changed as coming down Bridge Street gives easier access for lorries turning right.

Re: church
 

Your right as usual Willow...That was the main entrance to Blythes many years ago. I think there was some concern about lorries pulling out of it and the road in both directions was blind to them.

I use to play around there when I was a kid. Further on after you go under the railway bridge, on the other side of the canal there are some ruined red brick kilns. I don't know what they were used for, but we use to go bird nesting inside them. Twas an area full of wonder for young kids (that's if you could get across the canal by sneaking through Blythes or walking across the railway lines on the bridge!!!!). Twenty steps is next to the bridge on the opposite side to the canal and leads by a rough path to Hill Street. There's not 20 steps but everybody called them 20 steps...I wonder why?

Tealeaf may know?

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LOL
More often than not I'm as woolly as they come. I have vague memories of things but I think my brain cells have siezed up. I was reading this week that human brain cells start to die off once the brain reaches full maturity (around age 21) which probably explains a lot.

I went out to take photos of the area on Blackburn Rd, both sides, but by the time I got back and downloaded them I'd forgotten which photo related to what!

This morning my camera wizard was acting up and I seem to have something very strange on the SD card I was using yesterday.

Somewhere I have a map and when I can find it I intend to ask a question...............it may take some time.

Re: church
 

Would that be the coke ovens? I used to get there by going along the canal bank from the back of the Hare & Hounds.

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Yeah that's right, but the canal path was on the other side from them (I think...My brain cells have had a lot of time to die off!).

You must have been around at the same time as I was? Did you live up the West End?

Re: church
 

Oh Dear..........It must be that strong German beer on the the brain cells, Darby. The canal tow path runs alonside the coke ovens; it switches to the other side at Church Kirk bridge and stays threre until it reaches Clayton (see the previous attachment on the toffs at the Dunkenhalgh estate)

Until about 1970, the support for the winding engine above the Aspen Colliery shaft was still in place by the coking ovens. This was pulled down and the little canal "inlet or dock" all tidied up about then. Like the warehouse further along, this was a technologically advanced facility for it's time. The coal came up the shaft, into the ovens, then loaded onto barges in the dock an away. Once again, clever stuff.

Some of you may also recall the wooden signals box which stood close by. Again, this was pulled down about 1970, as the signals moved from manual to electronic. The interesting thing about the railway as it crosses from this point towards Rishton is that it appears to be built on a massive embankment across Aspen valley. But it's not an embankment; it's actually a huge wooden viaduct which was filled in with soil sometime around 1900. I've seen piccy's before....it would be nice to have posted on here. Anyone help....Atarah?

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1.Church siding on the Boulevard looking to the Railway Station. The trams left here for Intack, Church and Accrington until 1932 when Accrington trams ceased to run. The terminus was then moved to Salford. A very good overall view of the Boulevard and Station. Note the old charabanc to the left.

2.The Church siding with a view of the Star&Garter pub and Syd Smith's Funeral Directors and Garage (also a taxi place!). He was a well-known character who always wore a bowler hat. Notice the people waiting in the shelter for the next tram.
3. This was the Church terminus from 1932 when Accrington trams ceased running and the trams came straight down Eanam to here and then back. A good view of the Bay Horse and Lord Nelson pubs and the opening into Penny Street.

4.A splendid view at the Churc siding with the conductor looking curiously at the camera, and interestingly, the passengers boarding at the front of the tram.

5. A snowy scene in the siding. Imagine being on the top deck in this weather - brrrrr! W. W. Rice and Sons Printers and Mooreys Health Store are in view, and the Salvation Army Citadel is behind the trams.

6.Looking towards Church, with the Fountain Brewery on the left, later to become the Redcap Paint Works, and beyond is the Old Mother Redcap pub.

7.Heading to Church with an Accrington Corporation bus in pursuit. On this country section the trams could get up to a fair old speed.
8.Steam tram and trailer underneath Church Railway Bridge, and on its way to Blackburn. The scene is very much as it is today.

9.Church bound tram on the Accrington side of the railway bridge.
10.The Church terminus looking towards Blackburn, and the lines are being laid in preparation for the opening of the electric trams from Accrington to Oswaldtwistle in 1907. Image the disruption this must have caused! The Canal Warehouse and the Church Commerical Hotel can be seen in the background.

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Brilliant photographs Bazf. Once again it is disheartening to see just how much has gone.

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:D I agree..but has Bazf barrowed them from http://www.cottontown.org/page.cfm?p...5&language=eng

Or has Blackburn libary borrowed them from Bazf?:D

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not borrowed stolen:D :D

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T, I was looking for an area to study for my history degree and as I come from the NW I decided to concentrate on it and these web sites were the ones recomended, also I am crawling the web for as many photos of the late 1800s and early 1900s so watch this space I will use all my Lancashire tanacity to beg, steal or borrow them :D

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Sorry about that Tealeaf....Of course you are right, and my brain cells are dying a death!!

Remember, I can't pop down at weekends to refresh my memory, and it must be about 30 years since I walked on the canal at that spot!.

From the Piccys that Bazf has posted (we've seen them before on the cotton town site) I notice that the one showing a tram travelling under the railway bridge towards Blackburn, shows that 20 steps hadn't yet been built. I wonder why they were built in the first place? Must have been to connect to a footpath to Hill Street or the Whiteash. Any ideas?.

As for the wooden Railway embankment at Aspen valley. I've seen a photo in one of my little Accrington Books or Ossy Observed book. I can't scan at home (and my books are in Bavaria anyway), so I can only confirm that there was a very long wooden viaduct which is now filled with earth (when was this done?).

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There are steps up to the level of the railway line at either side of the bridge on opposite sides of the road, but the ones at the Accrington side have been (long ago) walled off at the top.

Is there no mention of the wooden viaduct and infilling in the book where you have a photograph? I'll have a hunt through some books of mine to see if I can find anything. My brain cells are as bad as yours.

church
 

Hi, managed to find this for you, aspen valley I believe its called

Re: church
 

That looks more like a trestle than a viaduct. How old is the image?

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Excellent photograph, Atarah...........I'm pretty sure thats the one I've seen elsewhere before. From an architectural & engineering viewpoint it does'nt quite tie in with the style that we're used to, but I believe it was originally designed like that to minimise the weight load on the soft ground below. The view is from roughly Blackburn Rd.

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Hi, the railway was brought over the canal at Aspen by a bridge and then across Aspen Valley on a bridge of wooden trestles carrying a single line 70 feet above the stream. It was built on piles in a trestle form because the ground provided a poor foundation for masonry. It was almost destroyed by fire before it came into use May 1848. Clever stuff, eh?

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Lovely Piccy Atarah...That's the one I've seen before.

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hi linda
im malc capsticks niece, and he aint changed, he still lives in accrington, now hes an antique dealer and landlord, hes not as bad as he used to be, single man still intouch with the armstrongs larrence and brian, hope your well take care xx jackie haworth

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Have you seen the date on this thread its 2004;)

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Really interesting though x

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Well it is if your called Bee june:D

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Was the bank across from the post office in the 1950s called the Trustess savings bank

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Just gonna look in an old book I have

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Come on Atarah, get a move on girl. . In 1951 there were branches of the Manchester & County,the District, the Midland & the Union Bank of Manchester.One of these would later become ( I think) Martin's. I don't recall a TSB, which in those days was the Blackburn TSB. The PO was in Market St.

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Think it was still there in the early 70s, can remember cashing a check there from a job I did, nearly sure it was TSB

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Ah that purple writing, nice to see you post on here again Willow, hope you stick around

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Its been over 40 years since I left Church, and I return about a year ago What as happen I used to live at 13 Henry St, then 12 Water St they both gone, thank goodness the house in Regent Rd up Dill Hall is still there.

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Dad worked at James Hindle Limited in Bridge Street Church from January 1929 to April 1936. He was initially 'book-keeper' but told of going out to get orders too. They were timber merchants. Where can I found out more about this firm?

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I am looking at finding information on the buildings that were on the opposite side of the "20 Steps" next to the canal. They were on the opposite side of the canal to the kilns. I can see in OS maps that they were there at vaious times but not now and would like any info at all about when and what, who owned them.
Thanks in advance,
Graham

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I think that the buildings were a dye works. There was also a house on the site.

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My grandma and grandad lived at 60 York Street and I used to spend all my school holidays there in the 1970 and early 1980's. I used to play football on the street, no doubt annoying everyone who lived close by. There was a school across the road which has now been demolished. I remember the summers were so hot the tar between the cobbles on the 'backs' used to go soft. I would go down to the canal and play near the swing bridge, and also the church before the gravestones became unsafe. A lot of my mum's ancestors were buried there. My grandma and grandad were called Cavannagh, and we had relatives in Church called Embley on my grandmas side. I remember the butchers on York Street and a weird little paper shop with piles of papers and magazines piled up and an old white haired lady who sat behind the counter. I remember the smell of The 'Bone Works' as my grandma called it wafting over the canal in summer. They had a coal fire in every room in the early 70's and I would sit in front of the fire with my grandad Bill toasting crumpets with long toasting forks. He used to make shadow animals on the walls with his hands. The memories.....