The Coppice
 

Can anyone shed a bit more light on the history of the coppice , you know , where the trenches just for training? , how long has the remaining cannon carriage been there etc. There was one at the foot of the coppice if people can remember.

Re: The Coppice
 

There were trenches put in during the first world war for training, but after the war they were filled in - in fact Stanley played football (or trained) up there in between the wars.
The trenches were re-dug during the second world war as anti aircraft devices.

The Coppice centenary is happening this year. On 29th Sept it is 100 yrs since the Peel family (they of Robert Peel the founder of the Police) handed over the Coppice to the people of Accrington. There will be a celebratory event.

Re: The Coppice
 

[quote=Gayle;700906]There were trenches put in during the first world war for training, but after the war they were filled in - in fact Stanley played football (or trained) up there in between the wars.
The trenches were re-dug during the second world war as anti aircraft devices.

Again that myth has cropped up. That the Accy Pals dug trenches up there in WWI. Barnyard confetti. I've just been reading some of the Pals personal diaries, in the William Turner Collection, several of them tell of their early training on Ellison's Tenement, and route marches around the town, not one of them mentions digging trenches.
In fact trench warfare on the scale it became in 1916, was little known amongst the officers & the ex Boer War soldiers who helped in training the pals, trench warfare was unknown to them as well.

Bill Turner was asked several times about the so called trenches, which never got a mention until after the 2nd WW. He also said the Pals never dug any trenches until the went abroad.

So can we finaly put that myth to death once and for all.

I do remember as a young lad seeing the cannons, and the gun mounts. They were removed early in WW2, the mounts were left behind and have slowly rotted away over the years.

Retlaw.

Re: The Coppice
 

Are they still there ?. Remember as a child, used to play jumping over them and very useful when you were caught short. :o

Re: The Coppice
 

we were walking up avenue parade this morning..... is there a crucifix up ton the top of the coppice?

Re: The Coppice
 

Usually 'they' put one up at Easter Emamum .. thought may be a bit early though.

Re: The Coppice
 

aaah, when i was at church today they were talking about an easter procession, maybe thats what they meant...

Re: The Coppice
 

I was up there the other week scattering my dogs ashes and noticed a huge block of concrete with an iron bar sticking out the top. Of course its been there years I no doubt forgot about it but wondered if they used to secure barage balloons to it just to add to the trench enquiry.

Re: The Coppice
 

There was only ever one barrage balloon in Accrington during WW2, and that was where the Arndale center is now, it was mounted on the back of a big lorry and was manned by R.A.F. personnel.

Twice during the time it was there it was struck by lighting.


Retlaw.

Re: The Coppice
 

[quote=Retlaw;700985]Actually the Pals did dig trenches locally.

This is from page 8 of the Accrington Gazette of 16th January 1915: "Whilst having a walk over the rough moorland at Moleside one day this week the writer was agreeably surprised by the sight of two or three companies of the 'Pals' engaged in trench digging."

Re: The Coppice
 

I see your spy has alerted you to the thread.

Do you mean the attached piece of toilet paper.
Everyone keeps on about the Coppice and this clown is on Moleside. Which is it going to be.

Firstly the weather was bad in January 1915.
The pals had just been kitted out with their new uniforms and equipment.
Two or three companies, there are 250 men to a company, so he talking in excess of 500 men.
Another load of bull, their not going to be allowed to ruin new uniforms, and where did all the picks and shovels come from, even Bridges Ironmongers would'nt have enough stock, nor would Harwood have the cash to buy them. Another thing, apart from A & B companies C & D companies had never met, nor had all the companies ever trained together. Also recruiting was still taking place for E Company.
Then the so called reporter goes on about men in training at Southport not having rifles, he's doing a lot of flitting about, First he's on about Moleside (whats he doing up there) next he's interviewing a man stationed in Southport.
I suppose all this twaddle sells newspapers, and the old reporters motto never let the truth stand in the way of a good story.

Reads like one of Ainsworth's fictonal tales.

I don't believe in the tale that the moon is made of green cheese, do you.
Father Christmas is a myth as well.

Another of your clangers Tom Catterall never had the number 65599 that is crossed out, do your job properly.

Retlaw.

Re: The Coppice
 

I remember a Barrage Balloon in a field just past Church Cricket Ground on the way to Blackburn. I think that it too was mounted on a wagon. I lived near Intack and I used to pass the Barrage Balloon on the tram as I made my way to the Grammar School in Accrington

Re: The Coppice
 

i used to be one of the mugs that carried it up yon late 60s early 70s, was not easy.:D:D

Re: The Coppice
 

So , any ideas on what the slab might have been used for since any barrage balloons were mounted on wagons. Off topic , who used to own the 'haunted farmhouse' which used to be where the bypass is just up from the lodges. Always remember playing up there.

Re: The Coppice
 

Don't know who owned it, but it was Green Fields Farm.
Map Ref 778-292. The Accrington Easterly bypass went straight through it.

Retlaw.

Re: The Coppice
 

Could it have been an Anti-Aircraft placement from WWII??

Re: The Coppice
 

Frst of all how big is it, anti aircraft mountings were 12 ft in diameter or more and circular.

There was one shown on TV, last nights Railway Walks, that appeared to be 20 ft in diam.

Retlaw.

Re: The Coppice
 

Its good when you have memories like the farmhouse , they will always pop in your head now and then.

Re: The Coppice
 

Bet those nails hurt too Cashy ....

Glad I didn't know that when I was little Phil .. would never have gone near it ... who haunted it then ?

Re: The Coppice
 

I used to walk along the road towards the 'Coppice'when I was a little boy.I add this as a matter of interest (mainly to me I suppose.)
I remember at the top there was a block of stone which I discovered was a ordnance
survey marker.
At the time I was living at 144 Whalley road,just below the Victoria hospital.Is it still there?
By the way,my name is Jack Petty;anyone remember the name?

Re: The Coppice
 

Do you mean the ordnance survey marker JG (yes, still there) or 144, Whalley Road ?

Re: The Coppice
 

have a joke about them, but ya will have to wait fer meet.:D;)

Re: The Coppice
 

a barrage ballon site was based on fairfield street during the war with the wind in the right direction it hovered over the fern gore estate

Re: The Coppice
 

Not sure who the mythical spy is meant to be, but I can find my own way to the Heritage and History section once in a while.

Let's go along for a moment with the notion that the Gazette reporter imagined seeing the Pals digging trenches. Here's Bill Turner writing in 'Accrington Pals Trail' about the Coppice (page 144): "The flat top of the hill was the scene, in 1914 and 1915, of Company manoeuvres. Evidence of trench digging still remains."

Alphaeus Casey's diary - he was with the Sheffield City Battalion - mentions trench digging in January 1915, but maybe the weather was better in Yorkshire.
Sheffield City Battalion | Alphaeus Casey's Diary | January 1915

Thanks for the note on Tom Catterall but the Medal Rolls don't agree with you. I guess the number 65599 on his service record was crossed out when he moved to the West Riding Regt. and was allocated a fresh number.

Kind regards, Andrew

Re: The Coppice
 

Let's go along for a moment with the notion that the Gazette reporter imagined seeing the Pals digging trenches. Here's Bill Turner writing in 'Accrington Pals Trail' about the Coppice (page 144): "The flat top of the hill was the scene, in 1914 and 1915, of Company manoeuvres. Evidence of trench digging still remains."

Bill Turner always regretted that sentence, he was relying on other peoples memories who were not around when the original "Pals" were still alive, and he later said they were nothing to do with the "Pals".
Bill & I met several of those old timers, I have copies of their memoirs, not one of them mentions trenches until the got to Egypt, and more so in France. We went to France and Harry Kay came with us, showed us where he got his blighty one.

Thanks for the note on Tom Catterall but the Medal Rolls don't agree with you. I guess the number 65599 on his service record was crossed out when he moved to the West Riding Regt. and was allocated a fresh number.

Just type in the number, and you will find 65599 was issued to some one else. NO TWO MEN can have the same number in a regiment.

But then, it took you close on 18 months to discover that Barrett T.S., on Accy War Memorial was spelt wrong, and you still have'nt found the others that are shown twice.

Retlaw.

Re: The Coppice
 

Here's my final posting on this thread.

Regarding the trenches. Officers and NCOs of the Pals would have been well aware of the importance of trenches. The Boers had made extensive use of them in South Africa, the Modder River in November 1899 being just one example. Instructions on trench digging - with diagrams - were given in the Field Service Pocket Book issued by the War Office in 1914. Sheffield's Pals battalion certainly dug trenches on the other side of the Pennines in the winter of 1914/1915. We have an eyewitness account of the Pals digging trenches on Moleside in January 1915, and from other reports both in the Gazette and the Observer they almost certainly dug on the Coppice as well. It may be that all the trenches were filled in after the war.

As for Tom Catterall, I can only suggest again that you look at the Medal Rolls. It sounds from your reply as if you're using one or other of the Index Card collections on the web.

I guess I know some, maybe all, of the names on the War Memorial that are duplicated. I can't prove they're duplicates though. Maybe you can?

I wish you a happy Easter, Walter. You and I both want to keep alive the memory of the Pals, and the greater number from Accrington that gave their lives while serving with other units. I do it through a website which is available to all, you have your own methods. There are a number of us in Accrington, Burnley and Chorley who share information. We recognise that each of us can make mistakes, check the original records and come to the right answer. You are always welcome to join us.

Kind regards, Andrew

The Accrington Pals

Re: The Coppice
 

[quote=Andrew Jackson;702945]Here's my final posting on this thread.

Regarding the trenches. Officers and NCOs of the Pals would have been well aware of the importance of trenches. The Boers had made extensive use of them in South Africa, the Modder River in November 1899 being just one example.

Do you mean the one attached.

Fine example of trench building.


I wish you a happy Easter, Walter.

Happy Easter be buggered I did'nt know it was Easter, till I got to the library, it was shut. So I'm not happy.

As for joining your group I don't think so, you would just love to get your hands on all Bills and my work. I'll burn it first.

Retlaw.

Re: The Coppice
 

I’m quite distressed at that comment Walter; (if I may call you Walter) At least 10 of my relatives including 3 Great Grandfathers served in the Great War as did great uncles and distant cousins at least 3 of them served with the Pal’s as did the Yorkshire contingent of the family.

When you do kark it I really do hope and trust that your work and that of those before you is passed on to someone who will care for it and preserve it for future generations, after all both you and Andrew or only custodians of something that bears the breath and fabric of at least 3 generations of our own people irrespective of whether they served with the few who made that sacrifice. I say a few because many more local lads served and died with many other regiments as you know.

I’m sorry you can’t see eye to eye because you both have the respect and gratitude of many people the world over.

Think on; you are the custodians of our heritage and words like “I’ll burn it first” hurt. You should know better to Andrew.

Re: The Coppice
 

I'm afraid I don't understand why there is the argument - surely if you shared information then the correct information would be out there in the public forum.

When you do research into something it shouldn't be saved, it should be put out there so that we all understand the history of the place.

Re: The Coppice
 

Exactly...........

(I love you Gayle Knight)

Re: The Coppice
 

I'm only going to be 40 this year but I am very interested in our local heritage from both WW periods and for the life in me I cannot understand why two grown men in this day and age can't find a happy medium. Everybody has differences of opinion on wether an opinion is correct or not but surely working together to iron out the creases is the best way?? Both lay your cards on the table and see what you arrive at....

It is also hardly fitting at a time like this to be arguing over trivial matters - WW1 veteran dies aged 108

Re: The Coppice
 

I’m quite distressed at that comment Walter; (if I may call you Walter) You can call me what you want, I usually answer to ugly bastard

At least 10 of my relatives including 3 Great Grandfathers served in the Great War as did great uncles and distant cousins at least 3 of them served with the Pal’s as did the Yorkshire contingent of the family.

When you do kark ??????? it I really do hope and trust that your work and that of those before you is passed on to someone who will care for it and preserve it for future generations, after all both you and Andrew or only custodians of something that bears the breath and fabric of at least 3 generations of our own people irrespective of whether they served with the few who made that sacrifice. I say a few because many more local lads served and died with many other regiments as you know.

I've been collating all this information for years, and spent 100's of hours in libraries and public record offices. Apart from sources of information which have now been either lost or destroyed, I am not the custodian, I just want to get it all together for my own satisfaction, if I can help people to find a long lost relative OK, but I'll be dammed it I will let Jackson have it. Most of the information is still out there in libraries and record offices. It just needs knowledge to find it.

William Turner beore he died, gave me his computer & left all his collection to me and the library, with a proviso certain persons could not have access.


I’m sorry you can’t see eye to eye because you both have the respect and gratitude of many people the world over.

I'm not interested in so called prestige of having a web site, just so some bone idle gits can rip off my work.

I met one of those in the library some years back, I had collected a lot of Accrringon's history in a lap top, when lap tops were like 1/2 dozen house bricks. This little git found out what I was doing and started pestering me for it, I got fed up with him so I said watch this C:\ Format
wiped the hard drive in front of him, he was livid, told him to f off, I knew what his game was, I do all the work and he gets all the credit.

I am quite capable of doing it again, if I thought he would get his hands on it.

Retlaw.

Think on; you are the custodians of our heritage and words like “I’ll burn it first” hurt. You should know better to Andrew.[/quote]

Re: The Coppice
 

I'm doing this because I want to, I can do with it as I please.
If you want to understand the history of the place, why don't look for it, instead of relying on others to do it for you.

Retlaw.

Re: The Coppice
 

I'm so sorry you feel that way Retlaw. You have provided me with info and I have reciprocated with some photo's - and I thanked you at the time for that.
If everybody was able to spend the time searching for things like what you do then there are a lot of other things that wouldn't be done.

I am a walk leader for Hyndburn Ramblers, I am on the committee too, but if I had the attitude you seem to take then I would be saying "If you want a walk in the country go yourself, why should I lead?". I lead because I know others don't have the confidence to do so or maybe they can't read a map so don't know how to follow paths. It is all my choice to volunteer to help them enjoy something they would otherwise be ignorant of.

Maybe some people don't understand search criteria on the web - it can get confusing. Maybe when they look at some websites the amount of info is so confusing they just don't understand what they need to do.

If you are able to help those who can't do it by themselves then I think you should seriously think about doing so. If, like you say, you would rather destroy valuable information collated together in one place just for the sake that you don't uphold a difference of opinion then I think it is very small-minded and selfish of you.
If, like you say, the information is already out there then you are indeed to be commended for your efforts and I, for one, would be one of the first to do so. There are a hell of a lot of people who would love to be able to do this type of thing but cannot do so for innumerable reasons.

I have already stated that I personally think your attitude to destroy the work is wrong and seriously hope you have a change of heart. The subject matter is surely the one that should make you see that life is too short for vendetta's. They lead to Wars....

Re: The Coppice
 

[Maybe some people don't understand search criteria on the web - it can get confusing. Maybe when they look at some websites the amount of info is so confusing they just don't understand what they need to do.
--------------
Thats just it WEB sites, every body rushing to have a website, no matter whether the info is correct or not.
I've seen a lot of tripe about WW1 on the web.

If you are able to help those who can't do it by themselves then I think you should seriously think about doing so.
----------------
I have helped a great many people find their long lost father or grandfather who served in WW1, with a lot more info than be found on any website.
------------------
then I think it is very small-minded and selfish of you.
If, like you say, the information is already out there then you are indeed to be commended for your efforts and I, for one, would be one of the first to do so.
-------------------
Not small minded or selfish, as the many people who I have helped can attest. More like bloody minded and determined not to be ripped of.

To give you an example, when I was doing research on old place names, village names and trades, I was in contact with a society in America, one of them was interested in the old trades I had collected, they asked for a copy and gave assurance it would be for personal use only, guess what, within 6 months it was on the web, under some one elses name, I know its mine, because of the 2 deliberate mistakes I included, that same list is now on several websites, and still has the deliberate mistakes in it, so it proves to me there are rip off merchants around, who are not prepared to do their own reseach
---------------
There are a hell of a lot of people who would love to be able to do this type of thing but cannot do so for innumerable reasons.

I have already stated that I personally think your attitude to destroy the work is wrong and seriously hope you have a change of heart. The subject matter is surely the one that should make you see that life is too short for vendetta's. They lead to Wars....[/quote]
-------------------
I'm already well past my 3 score and 10.

The is no vendetta, just me, being determined that the 10 years of what I do for a hobby, is not ripped off for some others to gain kudos, with very little effort.

Would you spend hours in Accrington library photographing all the original WW1 newspapers for Accrington, Burnley and Chorley, running them thro a photo enhancement program, then give it all away to clowns.
Then spend 100's of hours adding the info to databases, of which there are the names of over 14000 men and women from Greater Accrington, plus over 3000 thumb nail pictures of them.
I've also aquired the service records of over 520 men and only just started on C's

Retlaw.

Re: The Coppice
 

i have not chipped in on this, cos i assumed seemingly rightly retlaw had good reason fer his stance, his explanation which i would not even have given, seems to bear that assumption out.:)

Re: The Coppice
 

Ok. Maybe I should have put websites like the CWGC and other sites of that ilk. They are, after all, WEB sites.
I think you knew exactly what I meant but in your three score years and ten you are trying to justify your decision.

As for being 'ripped off'. There is always an element of risk in anything we do. If you are happy with the info you put out there then would you not be pleased someone sees fit to use it because it is accurate?? This then negates any need for you to be critical.
I also think if someone is going to 'rip off' your entire content then they would be very sad individuals. Don't forget - you have control over what you put out, including errors, so you don't need to put 'everything' on a site. YOU choose how much and what. If people want to know more about an individual then they can contact YOU.
I also cannot understand your comment 'give it all away to clowns' (and indeed think you are being blinkered by your disagreement with another local historian). Are the general public all clowns? I do resent being called a clown just because I have not been able to achieve something on the research scale you have. I am a complete beginner on the research trail, mainly for my family tree, and have indeed trawled through census' galore with my mum. Sites with info like you could provide would be invaluable to quite a few people out there. I doubt a lot of people scattered around this globe could manage to find their way to Accrington library, most have probably never heard of the place! But if one, just one, person finds that tantalising glimpse of their ancestor through the info you could provide in a WEBsite or by some other means - would that not make your efforts worthwhile??
I am sure there would be many more people interested in a site like that for lots of reasons and they would far outnumber the plagiarists of which you seem to be obsessed.

Re: The Coppice
 

Ok. Maybe I should have put websites like the CWGC and other sites of that ilk.
They are, after all, WEB sites.
I think you knew exactly what I meant but in your three score years and ten you are trying to justify your decision.

As for being 'ripped off'. There is always an element of risk in anything we do. If you are happy with the info you put out there then would you not be pleased someone sees fit to use it because it is accurate?? This then negates any need for you to be critical.
I also think if someone is going to 'rip off' your entire content then they would be very sad individuals. Don't forget - you have control over what you put out.
-------------
If I don't put it there I don't have to worry. And there are people out there who delight in using other folks stuff as there own.
---------------
I also cannot understand your comment 'give it all away to clowns' (and indeed think you are being blinkered by your disagreement with another local historian). Are the general public all clowns? I do resent being called a clown, just because I have not been able to achieve something on the research scale you have.
---------------
You should know what I meant when I said clowns
-----------------
I am a complete beginner on the research trail, mainly for my family tree, and have indeed trawled through census' galore with my mum.
Sites with info like you could provide would be invaluable to quite a few people out there. I doubt a lot of people scattered around this globe could manage to find their way to Accrington library, most have probably never heard of the place!
-----------
Oh yes they do, I've had queries thro Accy Library, Haworth Art Gallery and Ossy Mills, from as far away as Australia, New Zealand and Canada, if they are researching ancestors in this area the will know of Accrington.
--------------
But if one, just one, person finds that tantalising glimpse of their ancestor through the info you could provide in a WEBsite or by some other means - would that not make your efforts worthwhile??
-------------------
No, I don't need the praise of others, I am my own task master. I was brought up, if a jobs worth doing, then do it right, if its a thou out its scrap.
Why should I go to the expense of providing a web site.
What would I gain from it. If I could create one loadeed with nasty little viruses, that activated when people tried to rip off, then great I'll have one tomorrow.

Both Bill Turner and myself agreed on the subject of websites, thats why no one has access to his material, several items have gone missing over the years, because he trusted people. Now if any thing should get lost or stolen I can replace it.
When you've got a few more years and experience in, you might learn that not every one can be trusted.
Would you buy a car off Gordon Brown

Him as ul wurk for nowts a bluudy idiot.

Retlaw.

Re: The Coppice
 

Ok Walter, I don’t know what’s gone on before that left it being Bill’s wish that his work is not given to Andrew, I have received help from both of you in the past and I hope and pray that I will be able to again.

I wish you well and can only hope that when the time comes there is an individual that you can trust to pass what you and Bill have done over the years so that this work carry’s on, that or it’s placed in trust of the library.

Best wishes

Doug

Re: The Coppice
 

I was an engineer too and have the exact same attitude retlaw. However I also seem to have the attitude that if it's a work of art and a masterpiece that's exact and what the specification required then show it off and receive the praise it's due.
How many great artists would there be if their works were stuffed in a cupboard or destroyed??

You can create a password controlled site and you can implement coding whereby nobody can copy and paste too (stops the pics issue).
The only thing is you can't stop people from typing it out by hand.

Re: The Coppice
 

Fair enough If I can spend all that time creating it, then they can spend the time trying to copy it

All the work I have already given to the library is printed on red paper, it won't photo copy, if they want to transcribe it then they'l have to work for it, not handed it on a plate.
Retlaw.

Re: The Coppice
 

I can understand perfectly your reasons for not publishing your work in some way - I have no qualms with that whatsoever (even though I think it is a shame).
My main point was the destruction of the records after you've gone. Could you not put them into a vault or something to be released when any persons you don't want to see them has gone? In my mind they MUST be published in some way.

I also must admit that I cannot understand anyone who creates something so good can just sit on it and not be proud enough to show it off to a wider audience. :(

Re: The Coppice
 

this thread has lost me completely!

Re: The Coppice
 

We're on the Coppice....:D

Re: The Coppice
 

Thats not difficult.

Retlaw.

:hidewall::hehetable:hidewall:

Re: The Coppice
 

I also must admit that I cannot understand anyone who creates something so good can just sit on it and not be proud enough to show it off to a wider audience. :([/quote]

What I can't understand is the need to seek praise from others, you can't eat it, you can't see it, or touch it.
As the Vulcan Mr Spock would say, completely illogical.

Retlaw.

Re: The Coppice
 

I don't see a problem with Retlaw doing what he wants with what is obviously a great love and interest to him. Not like anyone has commissioned him to do it. He has pointed the way to anyone else wishing to do research, helped officials with information, etc., and answered lots of questions on here publicly about certain individuals to relatives, so no issue to me.

In the meantime, went up the Coppice today and took a few 'photos for JG.

The marker :-

Attachment 13666Attachment 13667

The trenches :-

Attachment 13669Attachment 13670

The metal cross :-

Attachment 13668

Re: The Coppice
 

cross was timber when i used to lug it.:)

Re: The Coppice
 

Never new if the farmhouse was really haunted , it was just typical story passed down , a bit like Rough lee and its apparent ghosts.

Re: The Coppice
 

No you can't. If you can see it on your PC you can copy it.

Re: The Coppice
 

I know Cashy, took this 'photo for you really, hollow aluminium tubes aren't so heavy are they ... :D

Was talking to my brother today Retlaw, and he reminded me that the popular theory for the trenches being dug on the Coppice was to stop enemy aircraft landing. Now that piece of land is bumpy anyway, so can't see that really. Why were they actually dug, for the Homeguard, troops practising digging trenches or what ? :confused:

Re: The Coppice
 

obviously cos the young uns aint as physically fit these days.:D;)

Re: The Coppice
 

Was talking to my brother today Retlaw, and he reminded me that the popular theory for the trenches being dug on the Coppice was to stop enemy aircraft landing. Now that piece of land is bumpy anyway, so can't see that really. Why were they actually dug, for the Homeguard, troops practising digging trenches or what ? :confused:[/quote]

A lot of strange activity took place at the outbreak of WW2, especially with the issue of identity cards, I still have mine somewhere) issue of gasmasks, formation of the C.D., & L.D.V., later renamed as Home Guard, one company was stationed in Hargreaves St School, next door to where I lived, several men from WW1 joined the unit. They used to practice manouvers all over the Coppice area. Then we have all the concrete pill boxes being built, the concrete blocks to stop tanks etc.
Barrage Balloon unit on Broadway, Police Station and Fire Station fronts were covered in sandbags, you can still see the marks on the walls, where they caused water to attack the stone work. Best of all school shut for a week.

Then as the war progressed you could hear the Heinkels & Dorniers droning overhead, on the way to Manchester. I could see the search lights from my bedroom window, and see the flashes of the ack ack shells as the exploded, I was always getting pasted for hanging out the bedroom window to watch.

Retlaw.

Re: The Coppice
 

Forgetting WW3, which seems to be brewing between our historians, the cross on the coppice intrigues me. I can't remember that but I'm sure I remember a cross that used to be erected in the gardens on Broadway, next to the Odeon and opposite the market, at Easter. Please correct me if I'm wrong but it persists in my memory.

Re: The Coppice
 

Remember the "Sunken Gardens" west ender, can't remember the cross in em,:confused: ya got me intrigued now. someone will know.:)

Re: The Coppice
 

When I worked at ministry of Pensions and National Insurance, the office was above Bata shoe shop next to the bank (1960 -1965), with a view down Broadway with the sunken gardens. I never saw a cross there at Easter either.

Re: The Coppice
 

I could have sworn there was one there at least one year. The Blackburn buses used to start from beside the garden and I have this memory of seeing one from the bus. My mind must be playing tricks. :o

Re: The Coppice
 

Im a little confused by Retlaws attitude to anyone elses opinion and to be honest find it a little offensive the way he talks to people.
Im always interested in his posts and impressed with his local knowledge and Im sure his research is invaluable however burning records which have taken years to collate cannot be a positive thing and demeaning people with less experience is in my opinion patronizing.
I have a set of WW1 medals from a veteran from Oswaldtwistle and an antique bottle associated with the "Pals" which I would like to donate to a local history club or enthusiast but id be worried Retlaw would end up putting them on his bonfire.

Sorry if ive gone over the top and Im sure I will get slated for this post however this is how I feel

Regards

Chris

Re: The Coppice
 

Just going back to the Coppice, found a statement my grandaughter made, who had not been up there since a very young age, very profound.

She commented that she didn't think it was particularly beautiful, and why had the people of Accrington let it become so neglected. Explained that schemes were in place to improve the paths and the whole area.

I always accepted it as it was, and never looked at it through the eyes of someone who hadn't visited (or fogotten) .... yes, guess is lacking, and look forward to the improvements.

Re: The Coppice
 

tell yer grandaughter our wonderful council let it go to the rats, when they planted those stupid trees on it.:(

Re: The Coppice
 

Couldn't do that Cashy, 'cause I like the trees .. did say they were going to trim 'em though .. :p

Re: The Coppice
 

yeh like bacardi but it aint good fer ya.:D

Re: The Coppice
 

Donate them to Accrington Library.
I wouldnt put anything that belonged to the Pals on a bonfire, I'm only refering to whats mine.

As I've mentioned in a previous post, whatever I have given to the library is printed on red paper, it won't photocopy. If people want the info, then they can spend the time writing it out, as I have done typing it.
I have just made it easier for them to find the information, which has come from dozens of sources.

Retlaw.

Tree planting - The Coppice 1910
 

Hi, just come across this old postcard dated 17th Sept 1910
Handwritten on the back it states "Tree planting on side of the Coppice".

Atarah

Re: The Coppice
 

Red paper does not make it copy proof, just makes it slightly harder. You can just scan it and then OCR the writing into Word or some other application.
The easiest way is a colour copier.

Re: The Coppice
 

Most of the people of Accrington don't want to get up there and do the work themselves and they don't want their Council Tax increasing to pay for the work either. Just the same as most of our green spaces. Each successive Council has cut down the Parks Department until they just don't have the man power to keep these areas how they should be.

Re: Tree planting - The Coppice 1910
 

So they planted them in 1910, it must have been PB's fault then like everything else :rolleyes::D:D

Re: Tree planting - The Coppice 1910
 

This could only have been the lower bit though Atarah, not the big planting ... certainly none up there when I was a girl ... YES, 1910 too early for me before anyone comments !!

Love the work outfits ... :D

Re: Tree planting - The Coppice 1910
 

That a bit of an obvious thing to say Kate,



you would have been at work by then :p:D

Re: The Coppice
 

Accrington Libraries photo copier for public use is black and white, and they are not going to let documents out of the library, so people can take them to specialist copiers. Some of my other stuff is only on DVD, so they have to pay the library, for any one page or item, depends on what their after.
Retlaw

Re: The Coppice
 

Why don't we change the name from the coppice to The Retlaw pages, your on everyone you self centred clown. Oh and here's some advice we know you don't want or need, get a life!!!!

Re: The Coppice
 

I have just donated bad karma - anyone care to join me?

Re: The Coppice
 

A bit gobby for a new comer who doesn't know anyone, its not really my style Margaret, but I'll make an exception in this case. LWA leave Walter alone:(

Re: The Coppice
 

Well, much as I have argued with Retlaw in the past about his reluctance to share, I've got to agree with Margaret that this attack is most uncalled for - just petty if you ask me.

Re: The Coppice
 

You people should listen too yourselves!!! I'm going to leave bad Karma care to join me, is this you personal site?? New comer? What, you have a little gang that meets on a Wednesday or something? People you can write and do what you want, I will try to get by with my bad karma. Oh and Renlaw, try and leave something a little more adult when you leave comments!! Next please

Re: The Coppice
 

anyway....:enough:

can someone tell me where the nearest pill boxes are to us, I have tried many times to try and find some local sites, but they seem mainly to been built down south .

Re: The Coppice
 

Your making it very plain to every one that your name is both feet, every time you open your gob you put both feet in it, who the hell do you think you are Adolf Hitler, only your opinion counts,

Best thing for you is to try your local slaughter house, they must have plenty of brains lying around which would work better than the one you already have.

Even better would be a sheep brain, then you would be able to baa all day.

Children should be seen and not heard.

Retlaw.

Re: The Coppice
 

There are a couple over Salmesbury way but they're on private land I think so access may not be possible. There's one near Turton and another between Rochdale and Heywood. There's also a couple near Nelson and Brierfield but dunno where exactly.

Try this site UK Pillbox, Pillboxes, Bunkers, Anti-tank traps and other Anti-Invasion Defences built in World War 2

Re: The Coppice
 

More adult:confused: with your first post on the subject shows you've got to come a long way to attain that yourself, my advice is stick to sites near Portsmouth they'll probable suit the uncouthed manner you have used to a well respected gentleman on OUR site :thefinger:thefinger:thefinger

Re: The Coppice
 

Has anyone got any info on how the name "coppice" or "the coppice" came about?

I realise that on the face of it that sounds like a stupid question, but hear me out :) The word coppice normally refers to a managed wooded area - however, I was reading something the other day that suggested the name was in use well before the current lot of trees were planted.

A place called Coppice without any trees seems very odd, or am I missing something? Can anyone shed any light on this?

Re: The Coppice
 

Was discussed in the last few pages of this thread.

http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...ice-59646.html

Re: The Coppice
 

Crikey that does make me feel old. I can remember calling it the Coppice long before those trees were planted.

But then you're only a slip of a lad, Pudwoppa, you wouldn't remember that far back... ;)

Re: The Coppice
 

There is no mention of a Coppice in early documents, this is one from the Coucher book of Kirkstall Abbey, its one of the oldest relating to Accrington, dated 1190, several names are still in use today. The boundary's are very close to the present day Accrington
Retlaw

Re: The Coppice
 

Looks interesting, have you got a translation?

Re: The Coppice
 

Ask the council Steve,they renamed us Hyndburn.......seems they couldn't even spell it right.:D;)

Re: The Coppice
 

They can't spell Huncoyte reight aythur.
Its Huncote not Huncoat. Who ever spelt it as Huncoat wants gelding.
As for Hindeburn thats self explanitory
Retlaw.

Re: The Coppice
 

Just a bunch of stuff about Robert de Laci and his old lady, Isobel. with conventional comments about God and Real Estate ... it's only Latin ... maybe medieval clerical Latin, which would explain some of the weird constructions that would have got me in trouble in Latin class if I had come up with them.;) My Latin is a little rusty ... and right now I don't have the time to come up with a coherent translation, even though documents like this tend to be pretty formulaic.

Re: The Coppice
 

The link to Roy's Huncoat site makes for interesting reading. The mention of photographs in 1848 of the coppice seems very early... may have to enquire about those. I thought photography was very rare in the area at this point (I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong :) ).

The earlier date of the name and the material I was reading make sense together if the area was used for coppicing earlier than the twentieth century - that's what I was looking for - thanks. The population boom at that time could explain why it disappeared.

Tis true; my childhood was spent playing 'manhunt' and building dens in those trees. Glad it wasn't bare slopes to be honest - 'run up and down the hill' as a game would have worn thin with me I think :)

Re: The Coppice
 

By the 1840's photography wasn't uncommon.

We've got family portrait photographs dating from that decade.

It is rarer to have landscape photographs from that period.

I've no doubt the details on the site are correct, they usually are, especially dating the photograph to a specific year.

I'd love to see it.

Has anyone on here seen it, or knows where it is?

Re: The Coppice
 

Your right about the latin bit Eric, there are some 4 or 5 documents relating to Accrington in the Coucher Book of Kirkstall, when I was translating them, I couldn't find some of the words in any latin dictionary, met a high ranking Catholic, who said some of the words were church Latin, usually found in ancient Roman Catholic Church documents, he interpreted those words for me.
Retlaw.

Re: The Coppice
 

I thought commercially available cameras were mid 1840's onwards, and weren't widely available for a few years - I must have my dates muddled. I'm very happy to be wrong on that; hopefully it means there are more early photos hovering around that I haven't seen yet.

Re: The Coppice
 

The inventor of the first negative from which multiple postive prints were made was Henry Fox Talbot, an English botanist and mathematician and a contemporary of Daguerre.
Talbot sensitized paper to light with a silver salt solution. He then exposed the paper to light. The background became black, and the subject was rendered in gradations of grey. This was a negative image, and from the paper negative, Talbot made contact prints, reversing the light and shadows to create a detailed picture. In 1841, he perfected this paper-negative process and called it a calotype, Greek for beautiful picture.
Would take a while for Fox Talbots invention to reach Accrington, & be used for taking views, more profit in studio portraites.
Retlaw

Re: The Coppice
 

http://listverse.files.wordpress.com...pg?w=400&h=287

Taken in France, 1838.

http://listverse.files.wordpress.com...pg?w=400&h=340

Taken in Britain, 1840.

http://www.aperture.org/exposures/wp...09/prevost.jpg

New Jesrsey, taken 1849.

Re: The Coppice
 

Just reread ... or tried to;):D ... the document. The date, 1190, must have some significance. At this time Richard Cordelion was drumming up support for his foreign adventures (I believe that "Crusade" is now politically incorrect:rolleyes:). He was settling things down in England ... sort of covering his ass while he was away. I think I might do a little digging into de Lacy ... and to other regions in the North, considering that dispositions would have had to be made against the Scots.

Re: The Coppice
 

I've already reseached the de Laci line, the last male heir to the de Laci holdings died in 1193, his cousin Aubrey inherited his estates, she married a Robert FitzEustace. Their son John changed his name to de Laci. His Grandson was Henry de Laci Earl of Lincoln. The estates then passed into the hands of Alice the daughter of Henry, she marrried Thomas Earl of Lancaster, nephew of Edward II, Thomas was executed for treason in 1322, and the lands were handed over to Edward II, they have been Crown Lands ever since.
Changing your name doesn't make you a true de Laci, by the time Thomas got topped their was only 1/16th of the original blood line of the de Laci's left. Retlaw.

Re: The Coppice
 

Interesting ... ta

Re: The Coppice
 

Found the documents when I visited the P.R.O, when it was in Chancery Lane some 35 years ago.
Accrington's Mayoral Chain is supposed to have the de Laci coat of arms on part of it, thats a load of bull.
The de Laci coat of arms never changed from the one, when Ilbert de Laci came over with William the Conquerer, to when Thomas got topped, there are dark green wax seals on some of the documents, with the same coat of arms as Ilberts coat of arms.
Retlaw.