St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

HISTORY:
A church has been on the site since 642 AD,This church sometimes referred to as 'church Kirk' was founded by St. Oswald in 1100AD and the font also dates from around the same period.The church is famous for the stained glass windows depicting the four Evangelists (Mathew, Mark, Luke and John) by the artist Burn-Jones.
The tower dates from the late medieval period, and the nave was built in 1804–05.The stained glass in the south nave windows was replaced in 1918 following damage caused by an explosion in a nearby ammunition factory :eek:.
The church is constructed in sandstone with slate roofs. In the body of the church the stone is coursed, but in the tower it is uncoursed and roughly hewn. The plan consists of a five-bay nave, a three-bay chancel, and a west tower. The tower is supported by buttresses, and has a low rectangular west door, above which is a three-light Perpendicular window. There are Perpendicular bell openings on three sides of the tower, and a clock on the fourth side.

ENJOY :D

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Re: St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

I like the paintings of Burne-Jones, and now I know he designed stained glass windows too! Thanks for this.

Re: St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

I don't think I've ever been inside this church. I will go to see the windows. There has been a slim book about it. At one time, it was almost the only church around here and couples from far afield married here.

Re: St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

The parish registers,. between 1600 & 1746/7 have been published as a CD ( Ref No 102) by the Lancashire Parish Register Society

Re: St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

It's worth a look Bob,The vicar etc are very welcoming.
From what I hear the church is pretty poor as far as donations etc go (gone have the days of folk pasing away an leaving thousands to the church).
I won't tell you how much them windows could fetch if sold but believe me it wouldn't be poor for long (obviously selling the windows is a no go area).
Yes I believe folk came from far an wide to get married in this stunning church.
The belfry has certainly stood the test of time too.

Re: St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

I indexed the Church Kirk Regs 1600 - 1805 for Jack Brogden, I'm sure its in the Library somewhere.

Re: St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

Jack Broderick(?) I remember him working on those of St Mary's, Altham, too..
It may be that the society haven't got round to publishing them in book form, or that Jack did them as a personal task. - ask [email protected]

Re: St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

I know the rev of this church very well as I look after his computer and broadband
have a look at these photos of one accyweb meet we had a few years ago
we where the last members of the public allowed up the tower
church walk - Accrington Photo Gallery
I would never make it to the top of the tower again with my health:)

Re: St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

It's an awesome church with loads of history ,I am a keen metal detectorist and would love the opportunity to uncover some of the history in the area .
Do you think it could be possible ?

Re: St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

I think the chances of digging in the grounds of this church would be slim to none PP.You may however find a farmer or resident that will allow you to Persue your hobby/interest (if you do,let us know how it goes).

Does anyone know of any (hidden/secret) tunnels that lay in an around the grounds of this church? I'm pretty sure I heard a rumour about one behind the church about halfway down between the gravestones.

Re: St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

Jack Broderick I think you mean!?!

Re: St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

Those who believe in secret tunnels have got tunnel vision. They don't exist. Mythology. Bunkum. Am I getting my point across?

Re: St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

Do you know this as Fact Bob?
The person who told me is a close friend,they have No reason to lie,they seemed pretty convinced at least one does exist.Obviously I don't want to encourage folk getting out a spade an digging up the graves but it could be a good historical find (if it/they exist).

Am I getting my point across? ;)

Re: St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

My Mum and Dad were married here in 1930,and I was christened in the font pictured in 1931. I sung in the choir for many years,and I remember the old place with great affection.
Communion at 8oclock, Morning Service at 10-30 Sunday School in the afternoon and Evensong at 6-30.Sundays were a special day then, but how things have changed.I now blame religion for a lot of the worlds problems and the only time that I ever go to Church is Births,Marriages and Deaths and only then if I have been invited. I would never enter a Church by choice.In the course of my life I have gone from one extreme to the other.Does anyone else feel like me about religion?

Re: St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

I agree entirely Jim, n i have also gone to the other extreme. Although i do enter some churches/cathedrals to observe the architecture etc.

Re: St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

Is It Honest To Blame The World's Problems On Religion? yes,I think so.
The endless joke of religion,folk (with half a brain) who actually think for a moment, know that the basis of religion is utter ****. :hidewall:

Re: St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

Faith is the illogical belief in the occurrence of the improbable. (Mencken)

Re: St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

Rather vague .

You used to enter a church building by choice but now you say that you would never enter a church building by choice , and then you ask whether anyone else feels like you about religion .

I don't know because I don't really know what you mean ?

I used to enter a church building by choice and I still enter a church building by choice on a regular basis , twice already this week . But that doesn't tell you anything about how I feel about religion .

Do you have a belief in the Reality referred to by "God" ? If so , what is your concept of "God" ? Do you think of it as some Santa Claus figure up in the sky , or what ?

If you don't have a belief in "God" , what is the concept or image you reject ?

Are you rejecting a belief in God altogether ? Or maybe you are rejecting a totally inadequate , and so false , image of God which you should have outgrown .

Re: St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

Exactly!!!

Re: St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

So you think it is honest to blame the world's problems on religion .

That's rather a sweeping comment to make .

I was on Broadway yesterday looking at the banner commemorating the Accrington Pals who fought in WW1 .

In what way would you say that religion was to blame for WW! ?

Going forward in time , in what way would you say that religion
was to blame for WW2 ?

The world is undergoing serious financial problems , but how would you say that religion is to blame for them ?

At the moment with the disastrous weather in much of the south of England many are saying that it is part of the problem caused by global warming . How would you say that global warming is to be blamed on religion ?

A more personal problem I have is regarding your use of the word "religion" .
What exactly do you mean by "religion" ?

Re: St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

Is this becoming a thread wander? ;)

I like folk with lots of questions (it's part of what i use judge them),
This may not answer them all,but have you heard of Christopher Hitchens or Richard Dawkins? have a look at "God is not Great" and "The God Delusion". You may come away with a different take on 'religion'.
“THOSE WHO CAN MAKE YOU BELIEVE IN ABSURDITIES CAN MAKE YOU COMMIT ATROCITIES” – VOLTAIRE.

Re: St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

That's hardly an answer to the questions I posed regarding your own thoughts relating to the relationship between the world's problems and religion .

I am not asking Dawkins , Hitchens or Voltaire what they think . I know it already . I am asking you .

I asked simple questions regarding certain events , so please would you answer them .

Here is what I said to remind you :-

Originally Posted by JCB http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/s...s/viewpost.gif
So you think it is honest to blame the world's problems on religion .

That's rather a sweeping comment to make .

I was on Broadway yesterday looking at the banner commemorating the Accrington Pals who fought in WW1 .

In what way would you say that religion was to blame for WW! ?

Going forward in time , in what way would you say that religion
was to blame for WW2 ?

The world is undergoing serious financial problems , but how would you say that religion is to blame for them ?

At the moment with the disastrous weather in much of the south of England many are saying that it is part of the problem caused by global warming . How would you say that global warming is to be blamed on religion ?

A more personal problem I have is regarding your use of the word "religion" .
What exactly do you mean by "religion" ?

St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

Why should he look at those books or worry about the people you mention?
Your belief or lack of belief is your problem, trying to convince others that you are well read on the subject just displays your insecurities about your convictions.
I have my lack of belief, however I find no need to reassure myself by reading someone else's reason for not believing.

By the way, next time you quote Voltaire, don't shout, he was a quietly spoken gentleman.
:)

Re: St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

Sorry,been getting grief off our peg for spending all my time on here :D
I really don't want to get into a debate about religion,but since you ask:

Firstly, I believe "religion is a crutch" also a ideology/tool set up with a sole purpose to divide folk.
The causes of WW1 are complicated,to blame one specific thing (like religion) may seem unfair, however we have to lay blame where blame is due.:hidewall:
On top of most of our current problems evolving from WW1 and WW2,(I also believe)“the First World War was wholly Christian in origin” and that opposition came from Socialists who were “anti-Christian.”-Bertrand Russell.
All the other things (WW2 (not global warming,you got me there ;)) are pretty much a knock/flow on from WW1.
For eample,World war one helped cause the russian revolution,Which (again,I believe) was the main reason for WW2.
I hope this goes some way to answering your questions JCB.
You may think i'm a “Richard cranium” ,but try not to hate me too much (that goes for you too "grand wizard) (it's not the church going way). :)

Re: St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

Seems I've woke "the grand wizard",Sorry for shouting ;)
After seeing you slay "birdman" the other day I realise my stats are no match for your 'troll' slaying ways.
I bid you good day,till we meet again :)

St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

Oh shucks, I didn't slay him, he comes he goes and consistently posts at such a low level that anything I say causes him no harm whatsoever!
;)

Re: St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

I don't hate you at all , and can't envisage any reason why I ever should .

I was simply asking you some questions the answers to which should have backed up your claim if they were accurate .

I think you are clutching at straws in the answers you give regarding WW1 and WW2 .

How on earth WW1 was Christian in origin , as you say , baffles me . How was WW1 Christian in origin ?

I am not prepared to comment on the effects of non-Christian religions , but I do know that Christians throughout the centuries , up to the present day , have been the cause of many problems , often evil problems , but I see no evidence to suggest in the least that it is honest to blame the world's problems on "religion" , "religion" being a word you have not given your meaning of as I asked you to .

So , sorry , but your post goes no way to answering my questions .

Re: St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

May just be me but i reckon his meaning is "In the Name of Religion" in that case many of the worlds wars oer the centuries have been caused in the name? that i concur with fully.

Re: St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

So WW1 was caused "In the Name of Religion" .

So WW2 was caused "In the Name of Religion" .

How ? :confused:

Re: St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

I posit that religion is not the cause of most wars although close study suggests it generally has a part in promoting and sustaining them. Unbalanced power, causeless hatred and greed are in the main why man went and indeed still goes to war.

Re: St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

I partially agree .

There is no evidence that religion ( whatever is meant by "religion" ) is the cause of all wars .

WW1 and WW2 were not caused by "religion" any more than the Falklands War was caused by "religion" .

Though the English Civil War and the Crusades were examples of wars partly promoted and sustained by "religion" .

Re: St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

I did say not the cause of most wars JCB

Philips and Axelrod in their "Encyclopedia of Wars" reckon 7% of wars and 2% of people deaths can be attributed to one religion or another.

35 million in WW1 versus possibly 2 million in the Crusades maybe 100,000 in the three English civil wars small change really when you factor in the deaths during the Mongol rampages across Asia at 30 million and Philips and Axelrod suggest 160 million in the 20th century alone through genocide.

Re: St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

I'm back again having first turned up in June 2013. I was looking for info re tracing my Grandfather and this had led me to Church [District]. Posting [punning] as "Churchgoer" then got me into difficulty right away but I continue to be interested in this under appreciated community and it's pie shop [ok it's an outsiders view]. On the other hand I remember once being laughed at for living in Ramsbottom and now trendy people are desperate to move there! I fully intended to get more involved in local research but it has been difficult to follow up the helpfull suggestions made by Bob Dobson as I have other commitments here in East Sussex.

I've checked in on the Accy Web from time to time however and I'm a bit intrigued. The family research itself threw up a number of strange coincidences [see my Luke Of The Cross thread]. It happened that during one of the times I was in the Royal Thorn in 2013, I heard a chap talking about a tunnel from Church Kirk-he wasn't being taken seriously. I didn't want to butt in but by the time I returned to the bar he had gone and no-one seemed to know who he was or what I was talking about? I'd missed this thread from earlier in the year but blow me, there's the tunnel again!

Here in the S East there is a rumour of a tunnel from the original village pub. As Bob says these stories are legion but here there is a major history of smuggling to account for it. On the other hand, Lancashire has it's Civil War period etc! I didn't really expect to come across another example of Church "Tunnel Vision" but there it was in Accy Explorer's enquiry.

As for the Church Kirk premises itself, even Philip Larkin acknowledged that a religious building seems to have a "compressed" atmosphere and depth regardless of the inhumanity that can results from fanatical faith-something we've largely outgrown in the UK over a number of centuries. It is true that Church Kirk is very impressive but more on the inside than the external architecture I would suggest. I do like the way that the Churchyard is bordered by the Canal however.
Dave W

Re: St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

Walshy - forget tunnels. Concentrate on names. Start a fresh post in the Family & Friends section on here, giving it a heading bearing your grandfather's name .....Welcome back.

Re: St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

Thanks for that Bob. I'm hoping to take a mult-pronged approach including contacting one our two previous responders directly. Time and distance are a problem but I may even seek help from a professional as well.

I now know more re my Grandfather [James] than I ever did before [ie nothing] and it's the Accrington related James [further back] and then Luke [of the Cross] that are a focus. Interesting but perhaps not that surprising there should be two James's in the line but when I named my own Son Jonathan, I had no idea there was another one of those as well:) I hadn't thought of opening another thread but that may be an idea I suppose. Thanks for your interest. I did get some maps from the very nice chap in Chesire you recommended. Best wishes for the season to you and anyone else viewing.
Dave
Bexhill-on Sea

Re: St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

This post can be deleted in due course [if it appears]. I've had a pm from
a Forum member [Accyexplorer] to say he posted here after my message on the 16th. I can't see that post from my end. I've sent two replies by pm to Accy that didn't go. I seem to be able to receive pms but not send them [they don't appear in the sent box]. I then tried to pm Moderator Mick but that message didn't go either:confused: Can anyone help.

I wouldn't put this message on the thread if I could think of anything else to do.
There doesn't seem to be any other problem and my computer is fine on other Forums. I've also tried a laptop where I had to formally log in again with password etc but that didn't work. :(

Re: St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

Sent yeh a PM dave, dunno if it will work or not? the info that is.

Re: St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

Have to say I'm getting more confused. Thank you Cashman and Mick the Moderator for unexpected quick response. I've tried replying via E-mail to Mick and CM. When I accidentally replied to a Do Not Reply "You Have A PM-mail re cashman it seemed to go through as a pm-unless I'm going daft-because he sent a pm back? Maybe it's me but I don't think so:o

As far as I can tell my PM's are still not going, either as a response from the received message or separately via the left hand menu. I now have two panels each saying received messages 5 and one showing sent messages 0.

Perhaps this will sort itself? Unfortunately I have to dash out but I'll try again after 4pm. Please check here for more desperate messages. Better if I'm just pdealing with a Mod as it's hard work jumping about;)
Thanks guys!



Explorers post is still missing but that's a side issue now.

Re: St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

Apologies just realised that Mick's e-mail was just the automatic one-only Cashman has been in touch [one way] so I will try to pm him again again.. then back later on -hopefully
Dave

Re: St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

UPDATE Sorry to take up space on the thread MODS but this has been a bit of a problem. Thanks to Cashmans help, I've been testing again. Replies are now being recorded [one missing]. It seemed to be connected with the bottom miscellanious options menu which had a tick on "parse links" only. Ticking "save copy in sent folder" seems to work and I now have 2 items there but I'm not entirely convinced it's all ok. Can mods check it at your end at all?
Computers-don't you just love em:mad:
Dave

Re: St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

This is doing my blood pressure no good. Hope it gets sorted. Meanwhile - do put your search for family onto the appropriate section, Walshy.

Re: St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

Hello Bob. Sorry to put you under pressure but it's nothing like my experience today! I had a routine check in Rammy two years ago and the chatty nurse suddenly went quiet. As she ran out of the room I said,"It's going up even more now now!" Measured elsewhere it's normal-an even greater mystery than the tunnel in Church.
Dave

Re: St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

You suffer from white coat syndrome.

Re: St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

Yes that's a part of it but I exaggerate a little. It can get raised as I also suffer from a lot of other things, including computers ;). At least I can pm now so I will be able to contact people re Church Kirk without wondering if I am talking into the void. It often feels like that when they are right in front of me as it is:D.
Dave

Re: St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

Well, St James Church Kirk Church has been let down , and I really mean let down. I am a Roman Catholic and also know Sacred Heart was left, then torn down,but I realise that this church meant a lot to the people of Church. Even the people who live there now. I also know that people move away but all these folk loved the place it was the oldest church especially the tower. Does anybody care? No they don't. Oh yes everyone rallied round for St Johns Accrington a relatively young church in comparison just because it was claimed for being the church of the Pals. Whilst I admire what these soldiers did for everyone of us. We now have monuments here, buildings there, even cafes named after the Pals, and Medical Centres. St James Church Kirk , no one wants to know.
After the reformation . Catholics had to use Church Kirk until they were allowed to have their own churches again. So, even Catholics like me would treasure it.
Come on now, don't let it fall into disrepair and then have to be demolished like Sacred Heart.

Re: St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

Shouldn't you be directing that at the Catholic Church?

Re: St. James Church, Church Kirk
 

Yes it's a shame, all that history and no one willing to keep it going, but, let's be honest this is a modern thing, preservation.
We must preserve the past (or some silly unwanted tree), practicality says nobody can afford it's upkeep, in days gone by as it fell apart the stonework would be used elsewhere in a practical (recycling) manner.
As much as it has been enjoyed it now costs too much (no doubt because it's a listed building and must be maintained in its original form) there again maybe nobody is really interested in religion anymore and find better things to maintain?