Todmorden Curve
 

Several weeks ago, it was reported in the local (ish) weekly newspaper that the proposed rail link between Accrington and Manchester otherwise known as "The Todmorden Curve" had been given the green light. I for one was highly delighted at this news, as it would mean a more comfortable, direct and hassle free way of getting to the city for everyone including commuters, shoppers and anyone wishing to go into Manchester for a spot of socialising.

This week it came to my attention via a very reliable source, that the project has now been cancelled after a recent feasibility study.

I contacted the local (ish) weekly newspaper to ask if they had any knowledge of this. I must admit I was shocked by their attitude to me asking them this question. The reporter that I spoke to couldn't have been more obnoxious if he'd have tried. He didn't have any knowledge of the situation, and neither was he prepared to go off my "say so"

I suggested he made some enquiries and if in fact my information turns out to be correct, then they owe it to the readers of the local (ish) weekly newspaper, to update the story.

Is that too much to ask? If that's the way people are spoken to when they contact this newspaper with a news item, then I have no intention of ever contacting them again.

Re: Todmorden Curve
 

I'm told the funding for the Todmorden Curve has already been secured. It would be ridiculous to spend £130 million on the Northern Hub (yesterday's Budget) without it.

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I think yeh have been very restrained to not mention the fact it was that useless local rag the Accy Observer.;)

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Well, if it has been cancelled then someone needs to let the Dingles know. It looks like they will now be spending a few bob on doing up Manchester Rd station. Here's a report from last weeks regional developers rag:

> News > Station work moves ahead for Todmorden Curve - Place North West

If the curve rebuild is not to go ahead, it will probably be because the rest of the Manchester-Leeds line is now to be electrified and as such there won't be any room for any mucky old East Lancs DMU's to share the track.

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Evening Telegraph 31 October 2011 £9 Million boost for go ahead on Todmorden Curve. Nick Clegg confirmed monies from Regional Growth Fund.

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Well I'm glad its going ahead, take the strain of all those plastic mancs on match days;)

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Last week I noticed workmen clearing the old track bed and there was plenty of activity with machinery.
It looks like work has already started.

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Not being an expert on trains I had a look on google maps to see where this missing curve was. This link shows what I think is the missing bit.

Todmorden - Google Maps

The track at the top of the picture curves to the right and you can see, if you zoom in a bit, where the track curves to the left disapears into the trees. It can just be seen where it used to join to the track in the bottom left of the picture.

Its hard to understand why this track was ever removed with it being so short a section.

Re: Todmorden Curve
 

The curve made up one side of a triangle, one side ran from Todmorden station to Burnley and onwards to Accrington, another side ran from Todmorden station to Hebden Bridge and beyond, that is still functioning The third side was the line from Burnley to Hebden Bridge which missed out Todmorden Station and is also still in use.
When the Curve is reinstated trains will once more run from Accrington through Todmorden station and onwards to Manchester on the existing line.

In summer there were always plenty of trains running through Todmorden station to Blackpool and the line was very busy.

When I was a youngster there were coal trains running from Yorkshire to Lancashire and banking engines were stationed on a line next to the Curve to push the trains up to Copy pit.
Some drivers would let us ride up and back with them. One day we got to Copy Pit and the signalman told the driver his engine was needed back at Rose Grove and not to return to Todmorden. Me and my mate had to walk it all the way back home, I guess we were about 10 years old at the time.

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Also mentioned here, when it was first announced.

http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...rve-59758.html

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Have a read here: Todmorden Curve diagram Community Rail Lancashire

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Nice one Cashy!!!

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If they do reinstate the curve will this mean a train would be able to a circular, so, for instance, if i want to go to Manchester from Accrington i could go through Blackburn one way or through Todmorden the other way? Would Northern Rail do this do you think? An extra train every hour would be good, stopping at all stations

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Here's a link from the LT showing revamped design for Burnley Man Rd station.
Final paragraph states that services to Manchester via Tod curve due to start May 2014

Iconic fin design planned in Burnley Railway Station revamp (From Lancashire Telegraph)

Re: Todmorden Curve
 

Having lived in Tod I never understood why it was removed, my son came back on the train from Blackpool and had to get off at Hebden Bridge and then walk to the taxi office to get a cab to Todmorden (the train having passed his house !)

Re: Todmorden Curve
 

May 2014 ?

Not according to today's LT .

It will be delayed by at least six months .

Why ?

They haven't enough trains !!!

No further comment needed . It speaks for itself . :mad:

'Lack of trains' to hold up new £8.8m Todmorden Curve route (From Lancashire Telegraph)

Re: Todmorden Curve
 

I was on Todmorden station recently and there looks to be a new platform being constructed terminating in the station.
The work on the curve is going well and I have vivid memories of hanging around there waiting for a friendly banking engine driver letting me ride to Copy Pit and back with him.
I later lived at Calder Head farm near Copy pit and a lot of the land is now taken over by the compound where all the cabins and equipment will be stored for the renewal of the Holme Tunnel.

The picture below is the Todmorden triangle I knew in the 50s & 60's

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another reason to re-nationalize . invest in Britain

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Apparently there have been some problems relating to the unavailability of rolling stock which has caused a further delay in the line re opening. According to The Citizen, following some involvement by local MP's the issue has now been resolved and the new service should start up sometime early in the new year. Fingers crossed!

Re: Todmorden Curve
 

Did the Citizen mention when the Holme tunnel will be reopened?
The last I heard was the realigning and strengthening of the tunnel would take until mid March, the job included new rails and drainage.
I passed Calder Head farm where I once lived, a couple of weeks ago and by the look of all the land they have made into a works unit with big machinery and double high ports cabins it is a big job.
Until that job is finished no trains will run on the curve.
Probably have it timed for everything to finish together.

Re: Todmorden Curve
 

If you look at this link it says 23rd March 2014. There is an interesting video showing what they are doing to the tunnel

Northern Rail - News - Holme Tunnel engineering work

ANd this link from 2012 mentions the curve and tunnel repairs http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk...fter_May_2014/

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28th March 2014 is the supposed deadline for the re-opening of Holme tunnel

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Thanks for the link Neil, I have to say that it will still be a longish journey to Manchester via Tod

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As we speak have heard the "men in orange" are getting on well with the work

ps
Whilst at Hebden Bridge on Sunday just gone, I saw the actress Sarah Lancashire, her recent Tuesday evening's viewing of Last Tango in Halifax has been truly marvellous.

Re: Todmorden Curve
 

QUicker and easier than doing Accy to Blackburn. Then Blackburn to Bolton. Then Bolton to Manchester though. Or you can pay more and do Accy to Preston then Preston to Manchester

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It also knocks 40 minutes off the Accy/Manchester bus journey.

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Shucks, have missed Michael Portillo’s Great Railway Journey`s - he apparently was at Church and Oswaldtwistle station, Accrington station and the Dunkenhalgh – BBC2 6.30 tonight (Wed)

Shucks, I missed it!




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Re: Todmorden Curve
 

I had a quick look at the bit of Todmorden curve you can see from the footbridge.

No.1 The left fork goes to Hebden Bridge and the right will eventually go into Todmorden station and onwards to Manchester.

No.3 Looking back towards Burnley, they have installed a switch over to get the trains onto the other line so they can go into Tod station.
I think that once the Home tunnel re-alignment is finished trains will be able to run through from Accrington to York again even though the curve may not be finished.
It looks to me as though the work on the track they use to York is completed, the switch overs are complete and the cables to the points and signals are in place.

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Just heard on tv that the opening is now delayed till December due to lack of rolling stock.

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If it opens in December Alan, I will show me arse to the Town Hall Clock.:rolleyes:

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December must be when London and the Southeast get their new rolling stock.

They can't send their old scrap ones up here 'till then!

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I think you are right with that, read something along those lines before.

I am sure our MP will look into this and sort it out for us.

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Town Hall Clock Ol' ?
Where be that?
;)

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I had a trip to my sisters today, her house overlooks Todmorden and the Tod curve. There was a lot of activity there and we managed to get a talk with the main engineer.
He assured us that the line between Accrington and York will be back in service before the end of March and the Tod curve will also be finished.
The problem, he said, was the lack of rolling stock to run a through service from Accrington to Manchester, that's what the curve was reinstated for.

No.1 Looking towards Hebden Bridge, the left track is from Accrington and the right one from Manchester through Todmorden station.
No.2 The left track is towards Tod station and the right to Accrington.
The reinstated curve links the two behind the trees.
No.3 and 4. The train is on the track to Accrington, there were four train loads of ballastl with a loco either end, they all came from Crewe where the ballast came from.
No.5 Looking back towards Burnley and Accrington.
No.6 My sister and the Senior engineer, we are a nosy bunch.
No. 7 The base camp at the Holme tunnel site.
No.8 A far away shot of the tunnel entrance. I didn't have a long lens with me so sorry about the quality.
No.9 My sister lives in the third house down with the big gable end, she is praying for the job to be finished in time, they have been working seven days a week 24 hours a day with all the racket from the machines and the big arc lamps shining.
Even though the works never stops the Pike... have stolen plenty of batteries from the lamps and anything which they can get away with.

Re: Todmorden Curve
 

Interesting photos. Thx

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Thats what i'm on about Gremlin, The curve aint down south,therefore the Rolling Stock will NOT be a priority, meaning no chance of December imho.;)

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Joining the "cut and paste" fraternity. When was I ever not?
This was on Look North earlier this week.

BBC News - Chiltern Rail to get First TransPennine Express trains

The South are in fact getting our old rolling stock Gordon.

Re: Todmorden Curve
 

All fine n dandy, but when are overcrowded routes, getting replacements fer what will make em even more overcrowded?:rolleyes:

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Well said Mr C but I have to confess I didn't know we leased rolling stock and are at the mercy of being gazzumped by a higher bidder for the use of it*. Trans Pennine's management seem to have boo booed on the length of the lease so we are up slip creek without a paddle or as the Fat Controller would maybe say " In the sidings without a shunter"

*Until I watched the prog'

Re: Todmorden Curve
 

So when we want more trains we wait for their old ones.

When they want more trains they pinch 'em back?

Seems fair!

Some operator in the North(may have been Merseyrail) was running old, knackered London Underground trains up to recently. Had a lot of breakdown problems.Could still be using them.

Re: Todmorden Curve
 

once the holme tunnel works are complete, trains will be able to pass through the tunnel at 45mph.
previously the speed was reduced to 20mph.

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All the work on the tunnel and the Tod curve is now completed and trains are once again running normally. I don't know if the journey is any quicker now that trains can go faster through the tunnel but I doubt it. The few miles an hour faster for the short length of the tunnel wont make much difference.

Re: Todmorden Curve
 

Hi yep, after a long disruption to passengers (which wasn't too bad actually) the job (which started 9th November 2013) ended on Sunday 23rd March 2014.
There is another short block next week from Burnley Central to Colne.

Re: Todmorden Curve
 

Oops, missed the ten minute deadline, soz. It also includes Rose Grove I believe

Rose Grove, Burnley Barracks, Burnley Central,
- Brierfield, Nelson, Colne,

Re: Todmorden Curve
 

I don't think the work was completed to speed up the journey, more to make the mis-shapen tunnel safe again.

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It was, long overdue too I believe.

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The train to Manchester is even longer overdue and still no idea when it will be running

Re: Todmorden Curve
 

Best guess is December 2014.

Re: Todmorden Curve
 

Just caught up with this as we were discussing it in the shop the other day.

Our MP will sort it because he wants to get everybody on the train to work in Manchester. I'm pretty sure a function of the local MP is to actually try and bring work to the people of his constituency, not the other way round. :mad:

Re: Todmorden Curve
 

I wouldn't be happy about that.

I don't want to spend my time traveling to Manchester on the train when I work in Accrington :)

:p

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The misshapen tunnel was caused by some dodgy un-official miners digging for coal long ago and the earth slipped into the excavations and slowly the tunnel keeled over towards the Burnley road. I was living on the farm next to the tunnel but not involved with mining.
When I walked around a few weeks ago before it was all finished I saw the remains of a little Dodge tipper lorry we used in 1966. We parked it under the bridge between both sides of the farm where the railway passed over, when coal trains stopped to either let a passenger train go by or to pin the brakes down it was very tempting to pull the lorry forward and throw a few cobs of best Yorkshire coal from a truck to the lorry. Very tempting, irresistible even. So I have been told.

The picture below are the Tod curve in its finished state taken two weeks ago, first one looking towards the station, left fork to Hebden Bridge and York,the other photo looking back to Burnley. Not a passenger has yet to ride the new tracks.

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Re: Todmorden Curve
 

There is a short piece of track which will have trains using it in both directions, at different times, and that is what the new signalling is to control.
Trains coming towards Todmorden from Burnley will be switched over to the Burnley direction track before switching onto the to the newly restored curve into Todmorden Station.
In my second photo you see the switchover, the trains from Burnley will be on the right hand track then the left, the first picture shows the switch from that line to the station and Manchester.
If the York-Burnley, Accrington-Blackpool express meets the Blackburn, Accrington, Burnley-Manchester train on that short stretch it will cause a slight problem.
I cant understand why the signalling wasn't put in at the same time as the other signals and track. or maybe I can. Could it be Network rail used it as an excuse rather then telling us they have given out trains to South of the great divide.
I can't wait to go direct on the train to Todmorden, walk across the street to the Queens Hotel have a few pints with my brother and back home again. As planned.

The photo is the little tipper used to lighten the load on the coal trains mentioned above.

Re: Todmorden Curve
 

what's a few month's delay matter? It's been years since a direct line to Todmorden existed anyway...

Re: Todmorden Curve
 

Is this the final time that a date for this service to begin will be announced ? Business leaders think so.

Long-awaited direct rail link to Manchester to begin on May 17 (From Lancashire Telegraph)

Re: Todmorden Curve
 

Last time I spoke to anyone connected with the job I was told they hadn't started training drivers to go round the curve (or bend) and no rolling stock was available.
Wait until the spring/summer timetable comes out and see if there is any service via the curve.

Re: Todmorden Curve
 

Perhaps the Honourable Member for X will be able to enlighten us when he receives an answer to the letter found by following the link below.

Graham Jones MP

Re: Todmorden Curve
 

Here's the letter:

Re: Todmorden Curve
 

It's a fair point to ask what type of trains have been acquired to run this service since today the government has backtracked on its pledge to replace outdated Pacer trains as part of the bid for the franchise that Northern currently operate. We're now being told that Pacers will be with us on 'some routes' for five to ten years. The 'some routes' will be Colne to Preston without doubt.

Re: Todmorden Curve
 

Did anyone see the article on BBC news this week regarding using retired London Underground trains in our region. What's the betting we end up with these on our Accy to Manchester route. Any updates on MP's letter?

Re: Todmorden Curve
 

They weren't retired- they were scrapped!
They're over 30 years old and are electric so they're going to stick little diesel engines in them so they'll be even slower than the 30+ year old Pacer trains they will replace.
But what the Hell, they'll do for the Northeners.

In the meantime London gets 1000 brand new units.
Who says there's a North/South divide?

Re: Todmorden Curve
 

Lets not forget the 15 BILLION they spent on expanding the London underground.

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Now come on chaps, we wouldn't want the bankers and office workers of London to be late for work or arrive with dirty clothes from sitting in old train carriages. If this was allowed to happen the world may stop revolving round them and the world would be a better place. No Government department is going to allow that to happen, especially the Department of Consultations and Senseless Decisions.

Re: Todmorden Curve
 

Here's an article from a man in the know. Due to start Sunday 17th May.

https://communityrailman.wordpress.c...cs-in-service/

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Brilliant! Thanks yerself! you wont be seeing much of me, Adlington calls!

Re: Todmorden Curve
 

That's great news!

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You can actually buy tickets on Trainline now

Re: Todmorden Curve
 

Have you booked to take Mel shopping ;)

Re: Todmorden Curve
 

If we book the train it will hopefully be one way to the airport, both of us that is, before you start stirring your wooden spoon :D

Re: Todmorden Curve
 

I'm sure she wouldn't leave you behind, sure ish anyway :p

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Between Todmoden and Littleborough there is the Summit tunnel two and a half miles long.
It is not true however that passengers are likely to have the breath sucked from their lungs as the train rushed through the tunnel.
In 1841 big shafts were driven through the hill down to the tunnel to allow smoke from steam engines to escape.
This now serves as a safety valve to stop the back pressure which would have sucked the breath out of the people riding the train.
Good forward planning by Mr Stephenson.

Re: Todmorden Curve
 

My son and I walked through the tunnel after the fire

Summit Tunnel fire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Re: Todmorden Curve
 

Long before the fire, in the days of steam and when the tracks were very busy it was compulsory to walk through the tunnel before you could join the "Big boys gang".
There are plenty of little shelters cut in the wall to stand in while a train passed.
To joing the "Junior boys gang" you had to walk through Winterbutlee tunnel at Walsden which was 503 yards long.

There is book published about the Summit tunnel fire with plenty of facts about construction etc.
The centrefold photograph showing fire belching out of two of the vent shafts was taken from my brother's courtyard on the hill opposite.

Re: Todmorden Curve
 

Just out of interest, how long will it take on the train from Accrington to Manchester Piccadilly ?

Re: Todmorden Curve
 

Winterbutlee Tunnel, Walsden, 1925

Winterbutlee Tunnel and textile mills, Walsden, 1925 | Britain from Above

Re: Todmorden Curve
 

I think the timetable gave it 63 minutes.
It took us 35 minutes from Machester Victoria to Todmorden a few weeks ago.
Me and my brother caught the train to Rochdale them tram to Victoria then train back to Todmorden.
We just decided it would pass Sunday afternoon away and it was an enjoyable trip.

Re: Todmorden Curve
 

Thanks Gremlin, have used the train from Tod a few times but from Accrington to Manchester for work would be a good three hours on your day

Re: Todmorden Curve
 

A long while, it's going to Victoria.:D;)

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One of the highlights of the journey to Manchester from Accrington is the journey through the Summit tunnel. It was the longest in the world when it was opened in about 1841.
There was a massive fire there on the 20th December 1984 when a train hauling petrol tankers caught fire. The tunnel was closed for a while but eventually after inspection it was found to be repairable thanks to the magnificent work of the original Victorian engineers.
Yesterday I had a ride off road with my brother and crossing the Calderbrook moor we looked down on the vent shaft which bore the brunt of the fire. It's still shored up.
The quarry in the distance is where a lot of clay was dug to make the bricks for the tunnel.
We continued over the moor and the tunnel runs under the place I took the third photo.
Fourth photo is looking down on another vent shaft, covered over to stop the local idiots bombing the train. The Calderbrook road below has been closed for years and is totally blocked.
My kind hearted brother opening the gate for me.
The house is where my brother lived and where the photo for the magazine was taken in the next photo.
I recently went with my brother from Todmorden to Rochdale via the tunnel and then tram to Manchester Victoria station where we caught a train back through the tunnel to Todmorden. Not once was the breath sucked out of my body as the old Victorians though it would.

Re: Todmorden Curve
 

Take a vitual reality train ride on the new Todmorden curve link to Manchester. Interesting high speed film showing the track from Blackburn through Accrington and Todmorden etc.

Todmorden Curve opens: Watch historic first train journey from Blackburn to Manchester - Accrington Observer

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If I recall rightly,I used to travel from Accrington via Bury to Manchester Victoria in around 40-45 minutes before they closed the line in 1966.
This is progress???

Tal

Re: Todmorden Curve
 

I managed to get a photo of the train on the curve today.