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fc:stanley 21-09-2008 12:59
Fishing?
 
So did anyone enjoy some good fishing this summer then or recently? Any good catches?
I did some fishing in france , catching a couple of carp.
Anyone recommend places around here for this great sport this year?

jambutty 21-09-2008 15:34
Re: Fishing?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fc:stanley (Post 633344)
So did anyone enjoy some good fishing this summer then or recently? Any good catches?
I did some fishing in france , catching a couple of carp.
Anyone recommend places around here for this great sport this year?
Fishing a sport?

Not in a million years.

Unless it is fishing for the table it is a barbaric pastime.

fc:stanley 21-09-2008 17:48
Re: Fishing?
 
How is it not a sport! :s Theres alot of skill involved in fishing and it varies with different kinds. Tbh i use barbless hooks and using these and then putting the fish nicely and calmly back into the water i dont think that is barbaric :S

jambutty 21-09-2008 18:43
Re: Fishing?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fc:stanley (Post 633428)
How is it not a sport! :s Theres alot of skill involved in fishing and it varies with different kinds. Tbh i use barbless hooks and using these and then putting the fish nicely and calmly back into the water i dont think that is barbaric :S
Sport - an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others. As defined by the Oxford English Dictionary.

Man versus fish cannot be a sport. Man versus man can and I suppose so can fish versus fish if you could train them to race each other. At best it can be called a contest, a rather unfair one at that.

Undoubtedly there is some skill in fishing especially in fly-fishing to entice a fish to bite on the bait but in general there is little skill involved in casting a line into the water. Some knowledge on what sort of bait to use and where to cast the hook yes, but that’s not skill.

Whether a fisherman use a barbed hook or not the fish bites on the bait and the hook penetrates its mouth, this causing an injury. Some fish fight to get off the hook thereby injuring themselves even more during the struggle.

Then it is taken out of its natural environment whilst it is maybe measured and weighed, the hook is pulled out and then the fish is placed back in the water for someone else to catch at a later date and it gets injured again. The injured fish is then prone to disease/infection until the injury heals. Other fish sensing an injury will attack the fish. So yes it is barbaric.

It is not kind to deliberately injure a fish or any other animal for that matter, or even a human. Therefore if it isn’t kind it must be unkind. Unkind is being cruel and cruel is disregarding or taking pleasure in the pain or suffering of others. Causing pain or suffering, as defined by the Oxford English Dictionary.

Fishermen may not take pleasure from inflicting pain on a fish take but they do take pleasure from fishing. Indeed there are contests to see who can catch the most weight in fish over a given period of time. Fishermen assuage their conscience by claiming that a fish doesn’t feel pain. Science has shown that fish do feel pain.

Think of it this way, if people ‘fished’ for rabbits with a rod, line and hook with a carrot on the end, the RSPCA would be down on them like a ton of bricks.

Royboy39 21-09-2008 20:56
Re: Fishing?
 
Jim..................why do you not try to walk on water?
What is the point of good debate when you have already decided you know best?

jaysay 22-09-2008 09:39
Re: Fishing?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Royboy39 (Post 633463)
Jim..................why do you not try to walk on water?
What is the point of good debate when you have already decided you know best?
Roy your close on 2000 post and you haven't sussed yet that, thats what JB does:D

Royboy39 22-09-2008 09:48
Re: Fishing?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 633550)
Roy your close on 2000 post and you haven't sussed yet that, thats what JB does:D
I know that, you know that so does half the world............but.....does he? :):confused:

jambutty 22-09-2008 12:02
Re: Fishing?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Royboy39 (Post 633463)
Jim..................why do you not try to walk on water?
What is the point of good debate when you have already decided you know best?
That’s it is it?

That’s the sum total of your intelligence?

That you cannot put forward a coherent argument to support your point of view on fishing but can only resort to infantile personal comments. Then you and jaysay behaving like two silly school girls pointing at and talking about another pupil.

It really is time to grow up – both of you.

But to answer you crass question – because if I did I would sink.

I have voiced my OPINION on why I think that fishing is not a sport and that to go fishing for any other reason than to put the catch on the table is cruel and backed it up with sound reasoning. That is the art of initiating a debate, which seems to be alien to you.

Hang on though! I forgot again! I’m not supposed to have my own opinions unless they are the same as you and several others. Well you know my answer to that.

Other people will agree with me or disagree, as is their right. But if they do disagree, and I’m sure that there will be plenty who will if only to try to shoot my argument down in flames, then they should put forward, not just their OPINION but back it up with reasoned argument.

Neil 22-09-2008 12:19
Re: Fishing?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Royboy39 (Post 633463)
What is the point of good debate when you have already decided you know best?
Yes but on this occasion he is correct.
Fishing for food is ok.
Fishing not for food is not ok.

That is my opinion, would you like to debate why fishing is not cruel?

cashman 22-09-2008 13:31
Re: Fishing?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil (Post 633572)
Yes but on this occasion he is correct.
Fishing for food is ok.
Fishing not for food is not ok.

That is my opinion, would you like to debate why fishing is not cruel?
thats fine, but was not the topic, fcstanley was askin fer recommended fishing spots n who enjoyed fishing.:confused:

fc:stanley 22-09-2008 14:46
Re: Fishing?
 
Im absolutely fine with everyone having there own opinions , thats the whole point of a forum!

My opinion is:

That yes, fish feel pain BUT they don't SUFFER from pain?
Why you may ask , well this is why:
Because they don't have a Neocortex in their brain which is the presupposition for any complex procession of nerval stimulation,whether it's pain, light, sound, heat, cold, a.s.o.

What i do is:

Fish with barbless hooks, i try and bring the fish in as quick as possible, once the fish are caught i put it on a fishing mat, carefully take the barbless hook out of its mouth , put the fish in the keep net to let it calm down and to get used to its surroundings again, then after a while return the fish carefully into the water (not chucking it in). With me doing this i feel its respect to the fish.

I enjoy fishing enormously and will keep fishing. I understand other peoples views and respect them alot however this has been done for years and years as a sport and is done and enjoyed by quite alot of people around the world.

cashman 22-09-2008 14:50
Re: Fishing?
 
i read once that its the most popular participant sport in the world, aint my bag, but if it suits people- fine. i got a bit more to bother about in life than wether a fish feels pain.

jaysay 22-09-2008 16:31
Re: Fishing?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashman (Post 633608)
i read once that its the most popular participant sport in the world, aint my bag, but if it suits people- fine. i got a bit more to bother about in life than wether a fish feels pain.
Got to agree cashy, not barrow either, never could see the point of siting on bank of a lodge or river dangling a piece of string with a hook on it, into the water, life to short to let time pass by like that.

MargaretR 22-09-2008 17:49
Re: Fishing?
 
My dad showed me how to tickle trout - no rod - no hooks - they just die gasping
and tasted lovely:D

jambutty 22-09-2008 18:10
Re: Fishing?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashman (Post 633590)
thats fine, but was not the topic, fcstanley was askin fer recommended fishing spots n who enjoyed fishing.:confused:
And you’ve never commented so far off topic that it bore no relation to the topic whatsoever?

Yeah! Right!

Before calling a kettle black the pot should be white.

jambutty 22-09-2008 18:26
Re: Fishing?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fc:stanley (Post 633607)
Im absolutely fine with everyone having there own opinions , thats the whole point of a forum!

My opinion is:

That yes, fish feel pain BUT they don't SUFFER from pain?
Why you may ask , well this is why:
Because they don't have a Neocortex in their brain which is the presupposition for any complex procession of nerval stimulation,whether it's pain, light, sound, heat, cold, a.s.o.

What i do is:

Fish with barbless hooks, i try and bring the fish in as quick as possible, once the fish are caught i put it on a fishing mat, carefully take the barbless hook out of its mouth , put the fish in the keep net to let it calm down and to get used to its surroundings again, then after a while return the fish carefully into the water (not chucking it in). With me doing this i feel its respect to the fish.

I enjoy fishing enormously and will keep fishing. I understand other peoples views and respect them alot however this has been done for years and years as a sport and is done and enjoyed by quite alot of people around the world.
So because millions of people around the world enjoy fishing it is OK to continue to do so.

Well tens of thousands get murdered every year and many more get killed and injured on the roads so that must be OK also.

If you had any respect at all for the fish you wouldn’t deliberately injure the fish just because you enjoy fishing.

As for your claim that fish feel pain but do not suffer from pain, well only masochists do not suffer from pain. They like it. But then we never know, maybe all fish are masochists?

Have a look at:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2983045.stm
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn3673
http://www.animal-lib.org.au/lists/fish/fish.shtml
http://www.firstscience.co.uk/site/editor/024_ramblings_05092003.asp
Plus many, many more but only one http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/02/10/1044725683181.html with a different view.

jambutty 22-09-2008 18:30
Re: Fishing?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MargaretR (Post 633693)
My dad showed me how to tickle trout - no rod - no hooks - they just die gasping
and tasted lovely:D
Ah! But that was for the table.

However wasn’t it a bit cruel to let the fish die gasping?

Would you drown a lamb so that you could have a nice tasty lamb chop?

fc:stanley 23-09-2008 16:33
Re: Fishing?
 
What happened to the fair opinions! :s I have mine , you have yours , end off.

yerself 23-09-2008 17:49
Re: Fishing?
 
I reckon fruit conserve sandwich is so vehemently opposed to the sport of angling because he was a fish in a former life. If you throw him a bait on here he certainly can't resist biting.

jambutty 23-09-2008 21:58
Re: Fishing?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fc:stanley (Post 633985)
What happened to the fair opinions! :s I have mine , you have yours , end off.
I’ve given my opinion on fishing for sport and gave my verifiable reasons for that opinion.

I await, but not with baited breath, for someone to establish that fishing is a sport and that it is not cruel.

Just saying so does nothing to advance an opinion opposed to mine.

Royboy39 23-09-2008 22:28
Re: Fishing?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by yerself (Post 634023)
I reckon fruit conserve sandwich is so vehemently opposed to the sport of angling because he was a fish in a former life. If you throw him a bait on here he certainly can't resist biting.
Like water off a duck's back..........I'ts turned a friendly bit of banter into an obsession to prove who's ball park we are in.....I think you should get your after life friend to contribute to this forum to explain that the only way to stop a fish-hook entering your gob...Is to keep the gob shut. :rolleyes:

fc:stanley 24-09-2008 12:24
Re: Fishing?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 634185)
Just saying so does nothing to advance an opinion opposed to mine.
I havent just said so , i gave my reasons + a scientific explanation with it.

I will be fishing at the weekend Jambutty and when i catch one il smile and think of you! :D

jambutty 24-09-2008 13:17
Re: Fishing?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fc:stanley (Post 634296)
I havent just said so , i gave my reasons + a scientific explanation with it.

I will be fishing at the weekend Jambutty and when i catch one il smile and think of you! :D
Your reasons were just words on a screen without being verified by a scientific source and thus remain just that – words on a screen with no value.

I have listed several links to various scientific bodies who verify that fish feel pain and suffer because of it – this is another http://www.aish.com/societyWork/sciencenature/Hooked_on_a_Cruel_Sport.asp

I even listed a link to the opposite view, but there is only one that I can find. There is overwhelming evidence by scientists far clever than you, I and the rest of this forum put together that have come to the conclusion that fish feel pain and suffer because of it.

So where is your proof that fish don’t feel pain?

What you do at the weekend and what you think about is no concern of mine but it will not alter the simple fact that a) fishing is not a sport and b) deliberately injuring a fish for your own pleasure can only be described as sadism.

If you cannot accept that then there is no more to be said as I have no intention of repeating myself.

Royboy39 24-09-2008 13:42
Re: Fishing?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 634305)
Words on a screen with no value.
If you cannot accept that then there is no more to be said as I have no intention of repeating myself.
Fellas...................I think we might have won a do? :):D

cashman 24-09-2008 14:52
Re: Fishing?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Royboy39 (Post 634318)
Fellas...................I think we might have won a do? :):D
Dream On Roy, Dream On,:D i wouldn't have seen that if ya hadn't highlighted it, had him on ignore fer last 2/3 weeks n its magic.:D:D:D:D:D

fc:stanley 24-09-2008 18:54
Re: Fishing?
 
This a silly debate jambutty where your words will mean nothing to me or anyone , your opinion i couldnt care less about. This thread i made was for asking about who went fishing etc not for your to come on this thread and share your views on if you dont like it and how you feel for some fish.
Make your own thread!

jambutty 25-09-2008 12:33
Re: Fishing?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Royboy39 (Post 634318)
Fellas...................I think we might have won a do? :):D
So these ‘debates’ ARE A COMPETITION to see who wins.

Suspicions confirmed.

jambutty 25-09-2008 12:43
Re: Fishing?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fc:stanley (Post 634451)
This a silly debate jambutty where your words will mean nothing to me or anyone , your opinion i couldnt care less about. This thread i made was for asking about who went fishing etc not for your to come on this thread and share your views on if you dont like it and how you feel for some fish.
Make your own thread!
Well you are taking part in it.

Then after joining in the debate you suddenly decide that it has drifted off topic. How come you didn’t take that view after my first post in this thread?

That wouldn’t be because you have no verifiable way of countering my accusation that fishing with a rod, line and hook and then returning the fish to the water for some other angler to catch is cruel as enjoyable, would it? And you see the ‘off topic’ card as a means of wriggling off the hook.

If you are not prepared to admit to the world that fishing for please is cruel then admit it to yourself.

fc:stanley 25-09-2008 13:08
Re: Fishing?
 
One thing il give you Jambutty is that your posts amuse me , but i am easily amused :)

However i wont admit it as its not my view. The reason i want to end this off topic debate as its going to far and going on and on and on , and no-one is going to admit there wrong because we all have different views not because im wriggling off the hook.
If you want to keep debating this then by all means make your own thread and i think everyone will share there views on that.

yerself 25-09-2008 15:31
Re: Fishing?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MargaretR
My dad showed me how to tickle trout - no rod - no hooks - they just die gasping
Margaret, do you not fancy tickling the doddering Darwen delinquent?:D:D

jambutty 25-09-2008 17:38
Re: Fishing?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fc:stanley (Post 634643)
One thing il give you Jambutty is that your posts amuse me , but i am easily amused :)

However i wont admit it as its not my view. The reason i want to end this off topic debate as its going to far and going on and on and on , and no-one is going to admit there wrong because we all have different views not because im wriggling off the hook.
If you want to keep debating this then by all means make your own thread and i think everyone will share there views on that.
If you wanted to end the so called off topic debate, then why did you make post #29?

Surely the way to end your participation in a debate is to just stop contributing?

I think that you are missing the point. This fishing discussion isn’t about right or wrong but about whether fishing for enjoyment is cruel or not.

I take the view that it is cruel and presented lots of scientific evidence to legitimise my view. I haven’t suggested that you or anyone else should stop fishing for pleasure, just to recognise that in the light of overwhelming evidence that fishing for personal enjoyment is cruel.

And that is my last word in this thread.

fc:stanley 25-09-2008 17:49
Re: Fishing?
 
I reconise this from your post and have listened and respect your views jambutty.

cashman 25-09-2008 20:41
Re: Fishing?
 
Dream On Roy, Dream On,----- hate to say i told ya so Roy.:rofl38::rofl38::rofl38:;)

Royboy39 25-09-2008 21:09
Re: Fishing?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 634720)
And that is my last word in this thread.
Come on Cashy..............He's trying.............Very trying. :rolleyes:


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