Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

EMMA HARTMANN - A friend of the King's and Tenant of the White Lodge.

Yesterday's Daily Mail gave a rather interesting story about an insight into Edward VII's lifestyle. One of the children of Queen Victoria and Albert, he was 59 years of age when finally crowned in 1901, after his mothers 64 years reign.
He was known for having many mistresses, including Lillie Langtry, Jenny Churchill (Winston's mother). The article claims that the greatest love of his life was the society beauty Daisy Warwick, known for throwing fabulous tea parties at her mansion in Essex. But ... there seems to be no mention of our Accrington connection. And yet it is documented that the two daughers of Mr Steiner - Emma and Lina (Emma Street and Lina Street) were exceptionally friendly with the King. (Steiner owned the turkey red dye works at Church, and lived in Hyndburn House, now the site of Hyndburn Park School and surrounding streets) - Through their fathers wealth, the Steiner family - especially the two girls, preferred the brighter lights of London. Both married Frenchmen and both caught the appreciative eye of the Prince of Wales. Lina became the Countess of Jaucourt and Emma married a Mr Hartman, a Roumanian financier. Emma, who became a personal friend of the King, often used to entertain him to dinner at her house in Berkeley Square, and one of his Majesty's first acts after his accession in 1901 was to grant her for life the use of White Lodge in Richmond Park. The house was beautifully furnished in the Louis XV style and the servants wore French liveries of the period. (She was then 65 yrs of age).

Why Edward granted the extensive property to Mrs Hartmann was never stated! It was a decision, as the Morning Post tackfully observed, that was "likely to be due to reasons of which the public know nothing".

So, I am off to get ready to watch BB2 at 9pm, just to see if there is any mention!

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

Perhaps the Misses Steiner were Parisian friends of Bertie's, and shared his ornate, champagne filled, golden bath tub.

:rolleyes:

I enjoyed the programme, and laughed at the barbed comment at the end of the programme, that after the libertine King's death, the Royal Family reverted to a more moral life, inspired more by Queen Victoria's court, with 'varying degrees of success'.

:p

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

Buggar Edward VII and the myths, rumours and legends of his conquests..Why is Hyndburn Park School so called? Unlike Peel Park school - built roughly the same time and presumably named after Peel Park - there is no 'Hyndburn Park'. Yeah, there is Gatty Park and there is Milnshaw Park....but no Hyndburn Park. So why the name?

Suggestions on a post card, please....

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

Bognor Regis Park, Church, has a nice ring to it.

:rolleyes::D

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

I'm still trying to figure out "who went where" on this 'love seat' built for three

A love seat fit for a king: The antique chair that gives an eye-popping insight into Edward VII's debauched youth | Mail Online.

sketches on a postcard please :D :D

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

You need to get out more.

San Francisco, for instance.

:D

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

A letter from Bertie to Emma.

ENGLAND) EDWARD VII (1841-1910). King of England (1901-10). ALS, 2pp. (1 page front & back), 3.5" x 4.5", signed "Albert Edward" as Prince of Wales, on his imprinted Royal correspondence card, Marlborough House, May 9, (1892). To Mrs. Emma Hartmann, on the engagement of his son, George V, to Mary of Teck, "I am very grateful for your kind letter of congratulations on my son's engagement. No event could have given me greater pleasure and I feel sure that they will be very happy." With original envelope. Wonderful item associating two Kings and a Queen of England...Mint......[6556]...$595.00
Royalty & Heads of State

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

To Tealeaf, oh ye of little faith. Course there was a park, a flippin big one, it was all the land around the mansion house that the steiners lived in. It covered a MASSIVE area.

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

What? With public access and public amenities?

Sorry, I must have missed it on the maps. Hyndburn park school was built around 1909, if I recall....much later than the surrounding houses. So there would have been no park when the school was built. Still, I suppose if the public were previously allowed to roam around that area, it could be termed a park.

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

34. Jean François de Montigny Levisse, Marquis de Jaucourt * 05/28/1826 + 18/09/1906
x 27.12.1864
35. Viktoria Lina Steiner * 1925 + .

Google Translate


I might be mistaken, but it looks like the Marquis de Jaucourt, who Lina married, had a daughter who carried both her mother's name, and also the Steiner name, carrying on the Accrington connection.

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

Would anyone with access to the census be able to check if Frederick Steiner's daughter is actually listed as Lina, or is it a shortened variation of Caroline/Carolina, when she live in Accrington?

Her name after marriage was the Countess de Montigny Levisse de Jaucourt.

The Census for 1861 showed a multicultural and cross-county household at Hyndburn House, Old Accrington. Head of the household was Frederick Steiner, 70, who had been born in France but was a turkey red dyer, printer and merchant employing 683 people. His French-born wife Emma, 54, did not work and they had a butler from Yorkshire, a footman from Staffordshire, a valet from France, a housekeeper from Westmorland, a ladies' maid from Somerset, a maidservant from Lancashire, two housemaids called Hannah Lamb and Sarah Veal from Yorkshire, another housemaid from Staffordshire and a kitchen maid who had been born in Germany.
Chorley Citizen - news, sport, jobs, homes in Chorley, Adlington, Coppull, Euxton and Rivington - Census records lay bare East Lancashire's past

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

Found her, she was Caroline.
Have a photograph of the Marquis, but sadly not her...yet.

'Francois Marquis de Jaucourt born May 28, 1826 and died September 18, 1906, married Caroline Steiner Marquise Jaucourt died in 1925.'
Presles Historique - Histoire de Presles-en-Brie

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

Gary i love you :D you're ace :D

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

Found this mention of the former Misses Steiner, in this autobiography from 1902, 'Recollections of a Diplomatist' by The Right Honourable Sir Horrace Rumbold, Bart G.C.B., G.C.M.G.


'I had liked my six weeks' stay at Nice
very well. I found there, as usual, a number of
pleasant people, among others the Ellisons, the
young Due de Mouchy, and my old friend Geraldine
Harris. But what I most enjoyed was going for
long rides in the early spring, when the country
round Nice looks its loveliest, with Mrs. Hartmann
and her sister, Miss Steiner, the very attractive
daughters of a remarkable old Alsatian millionaire,
who, by his shrewdness and industry, had become
one of the leading manufacturers of Lancashire. If
I am not mistaken he partly owed his wealth to
some important discovery he had made in the
composition of aniline dyes. Miss Steiner not long
afterwards married my very good friend the Marquis
de Jaucourt, and 1 have had the pleasure of visiting
her since in her luxurious home in Paris.'

http://www.archive.org/stream/recoll...biala_djvu.txt

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

Just think...Sir Horrace could have had 6 weeks in Ossy. I wonder what he would have had to say then?

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

We don't tolerate toffs in Ossy.

Old man Hargreaves tried throwing his weight about at York St. Methodist Chapel, and was soon booted out by his eglaitarian minded fellow worshippers.

Even though most would be back in his mills, come Monday morning.

;)

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

Probably whistling in the wind, but need to investigate further.

It turns out that Caroline's husband, the Marquis de Jaucourt, is related to every crowned head in Europe, through the Hanovers, and is a blood relative of our Queen Victoria.

Now for the grasping at straws.

My paternal grandmother told me she had an aunt who was related to Queen Victoria. She also told me we were descendents of Hogarth, which explained her's, and my own, artistic leanings. So I took all this with a pinch of salt.

I have never heard of any blood ties that Queen Victoria had to Accrington, other than through this information about the Marquis de Jaucourt.

My grandmother's family were Worsley-Taylors, and in the C19th lived at Moreton Hall, near Whalley Nab. My grandmother stayed there as a child, and was invited to a demolition party in the fifties, when the Elizabeathen house was pulled down. Only the gatehouse survives, which you can see on Whalley Rd.

Since Caroline Steiner had so many siblings, did any of them marry a Worsley-Taylor, or which there were equally many off-spring?

Is there any truth in my grandmother's tale?

I never remeber her telling me anything that she didn't believe to be true.

Further investigation required.

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

WOW! What a fantastic story! Love it! Keep delving! Cant wait for next chapter!
Photo here of Moreton Hall.

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

Garinda, you've got me "going" again on this marvellous Steiner story. Here is a photo of The White House. Some building eh? It became the Royal Ballet School. So this is where one of the Steiners lived!

http://www.royal-ballet-school.org.uk/premises.php?s=3
and
http://www.royal-ballet-school.org.u...ground.php?s=2

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

I have today had reason to go to Hartman Street and again, was looking at the fabulous hotel at the top of the street, but then I noticed, on the same side, lower down, is a rather nice large type terraced property known as REGENT HOUSE, then.... lower down, the house at no. 8 is also known as "Pembroke House".
There MUST be some truth in the tale about King Edward V11 and Accrington!!!!
An Earl of Pembroke was at the King's coronation!!!
Mmmmm! Interesting!

Princess Daisy of Pless: The Happy Years. An exhibition at Castle Pless

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

Anyone in the vicinity with access to their deeds?

I'm sure Atarah would love a respectful shufty at them, to see if she could unearth any interesting information about this royal mystery.

I'd happily accompany her.

We occasionally pair up to do the odd bit of sleuthing.

http://fast1.onesite.com/community.w.../detective.gifhttp://www.englishbulldognews.com/fo.../detective.gif



:D

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

NOTICE ia hereby given, that the Partnership heretofore
subsisting between the undersigned, Robert Ellis
Green, James Hartman'n, Eliza Emma Hartmann, Francois,
Comte de Janconrt/and Victoria Lina de Jaucourt, carrying
on business at Church and Manchester, 'both in the county
of Lancaster, as Turkey Bed Dyers and Calico Printers,
under the style or firm of F. "Steiner -and 'Co., is this day
dissolved, by mutual consent, so far as regards the said
Robert Ellis Green, who retires therefrom. All deb'ts due
and owing to and by the late firm will be received and paid
by the said James Hartmann, Eliza Emma Hartmann,
Francois, Comte de Jaucourt, and Victoria Lina de Jaucourt,
who will continue the business as heretofore, under the
same style or firm.—Dated this 18th day of March, 1874.
Robt. E. Green.
James Hartmann.
E. Emma Hartmann.
Fr. de Jaucourt.
Victoria Lina de Jattconrt
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issu.../1895/page.pdf

Only of interest because by this date Lina/ Caroline was Comtesse de Jaucourt.

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

Only of interest because it concerns the estate of the recently deceased Frederick Steiner.

Frederick Steiner Esq., deceased,
who died on the 29th day of November,
1869, and whose will was proved ou the 18ih day of
March, 1870, by Eliza Emma Hartmann (wife of James
Hartmaon), and Victoria Lina Countesse de Jaucourt (wif?
of Francois Count de Jaucourt), and Frederick Albert
Gatty, the executrixes and executors therein named, are
hereby required to send in the particulars of their claim* 10
Frederick Albert Gatty, of Hagg Works, near Accriogton,
in the county of Lancaster, on or before the 20th day of
April, 1870, after which date the said executrixes and
executor will proceed to distribute the assets of the said
deceased, for the benefit of the parties entitled thereto,
having regard only to the debts or claims of which they
shall then have had notice.—Dated this 21st day of March,
1870.
SHAW and TREMELLEN, No. 14, Gray's-innsquare,
Middlesex, Solicitors for the Executrixes
and Executor.
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issu.../1906/page.pdf

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

Found Lina's will, which I can't copy.

Comtesse de Jaucourt, Victoria Lina of 62 Rue Varenne. Paris, France.
Widow, died 24th March, 1925.
Probate granted to Marquis de Jaucourt.

Effects £25,064. 16s 8d.

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

Hey, thanks a lot for all this info Garinda. Where on earth do you find it all. The amount of money which Comtesse de Jaucourt, Victoria Lina (nee Steiner) left, was a heck of a lot of money for those days, eh?
Keep searching please!

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

It seems Accrington's Lina Steiner was also a friend of Queen Alexandra's, as well as being a favourite of her husband the King.

The Prince of Wales's Royal grandmother, Queen
Alexandra, has still a number of chosen friends in Paris,
and she has reminiscences of many whom her con-
sort delighted to honour the Galliffets, the Sagans,
Baronne Alphonse de Rothschild, the Marquise de
Canisy, the Vicomtesse de Courval (the American
Miss Ray), the Marquise de Jaucourt.
Read the ebook King Edward in his true colours by Edward Legge

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

Apparently there's a photograph of Lina, Marquise de Jacourt taken in 1925, the year that she died.

Interestingly it's kept at Yale University, in the papers of Violet Trefusis, daughter of Alice Keppel...mistress of Edward VII.

Apparently her name, Marquise de Jacourt, is written under one of the photographs in this album.

Beinecke Rare Book and Manuscript Library

Just to difficult for me to see which is the right photograph, even when enlarged.

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

Hyndburn House was situated in a fine park of large extent, which now gives its name to a district and council school. The mansion was probably first erected by the Ellison family. Mrs Wilcock the sister of Jonathan Peel resided here until she married the Rev John Park, resident curate of St James Church.
Hyndburn house was re-built by Robert Peel, the eldest son of the first Jonathan Peel of Accrington House and he removed from Hyndburn House in 1834 when his father died. Robert Peel died in 1839 and the Peel's sold Hyndburn House to Frederick Steiner in 1849. Steiner enlarged the house and converted it into one of the finest in the district, he died in 1868. One of his daughters married Mr Hartmann and resided here, and Cobden and Bright of corn repeal fame were entertained at the house.
http://lanternimages.lancashire.gov....66&r=2&t=4&x=1

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

Where exactly does this leave you in line to the throne?;)

Shame they knocked the family home down it looked pretty impressive...

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

Down my paternal grandmother's line, even though she could be a bit snooty about her Morton Hall links, none.

Down another line, via Pendle villages, and then through someone called Marmaduke Beckwith, directly back to King John.

Sounds odd, but was just lucky, because they didn't move around much for a couple of hundred years.

Though if you bear in mind that if you go back 1,000 years we all have literally tens of thousands of great grandparents many times removed, so half the country will have a direct link to Lackland too.

Nnety percent of us all will be in some way related.

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

That's just through one person.

Many of Marmaduke Beckwith's ancestors go back to Normandy, and before that Scandinavia.

Many other family lines peter out not long before the first census.

Aren't the whole of mankind meant to be descended from one woman in east Africa, scientists have called Eve?

I once did a thread on here because someone, Westender, said they only had Lancashire roots.

If you keep doubling your parents/grandparents/great grandparents etc., once you go back a thousand years you end up with 100,000's of direct ancestors.

Which was greater than the population around here then, so she was wrong.

We're all mongrels.

http://images.paraorkut.com/img/emot...s/d/dog-75.gif

:D

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

Unfortunately, I think you're right here -but i still like to think of myself in canine terms as an Afghan hound!

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

I've heard this said but in practical terms it would be impossible for the genetic diversity that is present in the human race to have developed from one single individual.....:);):o:cool::mad::eek::p

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

Well I hope they give you a rabies shot, before you next enter Britain.

And no smuggling yourself in on the back of a lorry!

:D

Found this, but not the thread I started about anscestor numbers...yet.

http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...y-29873-2.html

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

Found it!

:)

http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...ily-27540.html

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

Originally Posted by garinda http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/s...s/viewpost.gif
Ok, I can't sleep, so I thought I'd share my thoughts with anyone who may be remotely interested.

We all have two parents, four grandparents, eight great grandparents, sixteen great great grandparents, thirty two great great great grandparents, and so on, and so on.... the numbers doubling each generation.

If we average that there are four generations per century, in a thousand year period we will all have 1,009,511,627,776 direct ancestors.
Who decided it was 4 generations per century, my greatgrandfather was born in 1820.
I hope my maths isn't wrong. I think it's 2 to the power of 40, and I had to get Google to do it, because my calculator didn't have enough digits. Any way it's a huge number.

Since the population of the UK in 1000 AD was roughly 1,420,000 that means we all must be related in some way, and I suppose we should count ourselves lucky not to have eleven fingers or webbed toes.

Any comments, or corrections to my mathematics, will be appreciated.
Then the gene pool got polluted by the frogs, led by William the conk.
The god botherers would have it that we are all descended from Adam & Eve, so if they had children, who was bonking who, every ones genes would be the same, the same could be said of the so called seven, who fathered them, who fathered their children.
There are supposed to be several distinct races on this earth. Just might be we've had a visit from outer space. Beam me up Scotty.

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

What an aweful thought!

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

To get back on track, I have today been again to Hartmann Street, and cant believe I missed this one, on the same side as all the other "royal" connected house names, there is also OSBORNE HOUSE!!!!!
Osborne House - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Edward V11 was of course one of Queen Victoria's children
Queen Victoria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Help! Where do I go from here?

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

Yes but when the Normans came here, who weren't incidentally Gauls, but from Scandinavia, hence Nor(se)man, Britain had already been colonised by the Angles, and the Saxons, who of course came from what we today call Germany.

Since when I can't sleep I make up my own rules, when doing loopy mind tricks.

I think over the last thousand years the average age of 25 to reproduce is probably a bit on the high side, given the life expectancy was much lower in past centuries, and people had children earlier than we do today.

Plus having 4 generations per century made the maths a whole lot easier.

Especially when we're talking in billions, give or take the odd year, if we adjust the figures for your grandfather.

:D

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

I just guestimated in my nighttime slumbers, but on checking the general concensus seems to be that genealogically a generation is considered to be 25 years/4 per century, and 20 years/5 per century in the distant past, because of earlier breeding/shorter life expectancies.

Here's just one link. If you search 'How long is a generation', the answers are much the same.

How Long Is a Generation?

http://www.ancestry.com/learn/librar...?article=11152

Now, back to dirty Bertie, and the good time Steiner gals...before Atarah issues a royal death warrant.

:D

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

The Seven Daughters of Eve
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Seven Daughters of Eve (2001, ISBN 0-393-02018-5) is a book by Bryan Sykes that presents the theory of human mitochondrial genetics to a general audience. Sykes explains the principles of genetics and human evolution, the particularities of mitochondrial DNA, and analyses of ancient DNA to genetically link modern humans to prehistoric ancestors.
NB.Mitochondria are the little powerhouses present in all our cells!)


The title of the book comes from one of the principal achievements of mitochondrial genetics, which is the classification of all modern Europeans into seven groups, the mitochondrial haplogroups. Each haplogroup is defined by set of characteristic mutations on the mitochondrial genome, and can be traced along a person's maternal line to a specific prehistoric woman. Sykes refers to these women as "clan mothers", though these women did not all live concurrently. Indeed some "clan mothers" are descended from others (although not maternally). All these women in turn shared a common maternal ancestor, the Mitochondrial Eve.


The seven "clan mothers" mentioned by Sykes each correspond to one (or more) human mitochondrial haplogroups.

Ursula: corresponds to Haplogroup U (specifically U5, and excluding its subgroup K)
Xenia: corresponds to Haplogroup X
Helena: corresponds to Haplogroup H
Velda: corresponds to Haplogroup V
Tara: corresponds to Haplogroup T
Katrine: corresponds to Haplogroup K
Jasmine: corresponds to Haplogroup J

Sykes wrote in the book that there were seven major mitochondrial lineages for modern Europeans, though he subsequently wrote that with the additional data from Scandinavia and Eastern Europe, Ulrike (see below) could have been promoted to be the eighth clan mother for Europe.[1]

Sykes has invented names for an additional 29 "clan mothers" worldwide, each corresponding to a different haplogroup identified by geneticists: "Fufei, Ina, Aiyana/Ai, Yumi, Nene, Naomi, Una, Uta, Ulrike, Uma, Ulla, Ulaana, Lara, Lamia, Lalamika, Latasha, Malaxshmi, Emiko, Gaia, Chochmingwu/Chie, Djigonasee/Sachi, Makeda, Lingaire, Lubaya, Limber, Lila, Lungile, Latifa and Layla."[4]

Looks like we were both right one way or another Garinda:)

It has also been shown that the gene for intelligence is carried on the female X-chromosomes!:D
I can quite see myself being related to Xenia -which clan do you think you belong to?;)

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

Genetics gets even more complicated when you explore theories on the origins of the RH negative blood factor.


PS - that's where dads get to affect the outcome ;)

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

Hope you have time to read Margaret -this is way off thread so i apologise to Atarah.....

Rh-negative women and men have several "Unusual Traits" that Rh-positives don't. Some call them "Reptilian Traits".
* An EXTRA-Vertebra (a "Tail Bone")....some are born with a tail(called a "Cauda").
* Lower than normal Body Temperature
* Lower than normal Blood Pressure
* Higher mental analytical abilities.
* Higher Negative-ion shielding (from positive "charged" virus/bacteria)around the body.
* High Sensitivity to EM and ELF Fields.
* Hyper Vision and other senses.
(My eldest son is A- blood-type but i've never noticed any of these traits - he is above averagely bright though...)
Population data

The frequency of Rh factor blood types and the RhD neg allele gene differs in various populations.
Population data for the Rh D factor and the RhD neg allele[12]
Population Rh(D) Neg Rh(D) Pos Rh(D) Neg alleles
Basque people 21–36%[13] 65% approx 60%
other Europeans 16% 84% 40%
African American approx 7% 93% approx 26%
Native Americans approx 1% 99% approx 10%
African descent less 1% over 99% 3%
Asian less 1% over 99% 1%

The Rh-Negatives Factor is considered a "Mutation" of "Unknown Origin", which happened in Europe, about 25,000-35,000 years ago. Then this group spread heavily into the area of what is now Spain, England, Ireland, etc.
The researches of R. Frank, a scholar at the University of Iowa, suggest that the Basques were far-advanced in navigational skills and other aspects of technology long before the rise of the Roman Empire. The Basques, she believes, are the last remnants of the megalith builders, who left behind dolmens, standing stones, and other rock structures all across Europe and perhaps even in eastern North America.

Two facts set the Basque peoples apart from the other Europeans who have dominated the continent the past 3,000 years: (1) The Basque language is distinctly different; and (2) The Basques have the highest recorded level of Rh-negative blood (roughly twice that of most Europeans), as well as substantially lower levels of Type B blood and a higher incidence of Type O blood.

Some probable technological feats of the Basques or their ancestors are:

Stonehenge and similar megalithic structures....A unique system of measurement based on the number 7, instead of 10, 12, or 60 Regular visits to North America long before Columbus to fish and to trade for beaver skins. Recently unearthed British customs records show large Basque imports of beaver pelts from 1380-1433. The invention of a sophisticated navigational device called an "abacus." (No relation to the common abacus.):D
This is from various sources - just type in Rhesus negative genetics into Google -it gets really weird if you follow the Reptilian Traits!

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

I am already aware of the implications of RHneg - I am one.
We are all hybrids to some extent, but it is reassuring to know that -
'you are not your body and are only in it for experience'

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

Do you know what, I am gutted as to how my lovely local history story has been "attacked".

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

I did apologise earlier realising it was a complete side track, Atarah, and i agree it is a lovely story, so often things get lost in the past and little clues in the streets and buildings are all that remain -it's so interesting to find out about local history and the people that made up our town's past...sorry again:o

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

We are in the telly section.

Brain dead wandering's allowed.

:D

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

This is an old post I know but I am researching for the National Trust and am investigating the Hartmann family. Through your excellent sleuthing I have discovered a large chunk in one go which is excellent. Did you ever hear from Sophie Hartmann again this looked like a really good connection.
Emma Steiner married James Hartmann and their son was James Frederick Phillipe Maximillian Hartmann who died in an accident in Switzerland in 1921, I have not been able to find any more details about this. However, in the 1891 census he says he was born in Ireland, is there any suggestion that he was the result of Emma's 'relationship' with Edward VII?
James and Emma rented Saltram House in Devon from the Earl of Morley and seemed to have used it as a summer residence for a while. They were friends not only of the Morleys but also the Earls of Mount Edgcumbe and eventually their families become linked through the marriage of James Frederick to Constance Lister.

Any other information you may have would be welcome. Riversideresearch

Re: Edward V11 - Prince of Pleasure" BBC2 at 9pm
 

The TV programme, which started this thread, repeats tonight (Thursday 5th jan) on Yesterday channel (freeview 12) at 9pm.