has the world gone mad.. or is justified?
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7474692.stm

what do you think?
are we protecting our children or going massivly over the top with it?

If you saw a child in town that looked lost, would you go and help them or leave it to someone else through fear of looking like an abducter?

personally i agree with crb checks, although it doesnt stop someone that hasnt yet commited and offence or hasnt been caught it does mean that someone who has will be kept out of a job with children

(although not someone that has abused their own children and had them removed from their care but not been charged with anything)

Re: has the world gone mad.. or is justified?
 

when is common sense going to come back,,,,what a horrible world today for little children to be born in,,

Re: has the world gone mad.. or is justified?
 

If I saw a lost child I would definitely help.......the world is a scary place, but the majority of folk would perhaps imagine what it is like for a child to be scared and alone....and also put themselves into the shoes of a parent who has got separated from their child.

Re: has the world gone mad.. or is justified?
 

Always a good point but yes, should be the checks to show up any known past culprits, but you right Emamum never know when this terrible offence will manifest its head in personalities.

I, like Margaret, would jump in with both feet if I saw a child in distress, even though may get some accusations at the end of it (which has happened to friends of mine) ... at least the child will be safe, and I could handle any aggro; the child could not handle getting lost and wandering into dangerous grounds. Least I know I am not a paedophile, child kidnapper or child abuser, so would have no worries.

Re: has the world gone mad.. or is justified?
 

Me too Kate. I couldn't bear to think of what i might feel if I didn't, and then heard that the child had come to a bad end.

I too, could handle any aggro, but I would like to think that common sense would prevail...and any action that I took would be seen in the spirit it was meant...i.e. that of giving a helping hand.

Re: has the world gone mad.. or is justified?
 

That maybe just about acceptable for a woman, but it would be very chancy for a bloke to do in todays society, but I think i'd have to risk it if for my own peace of mind.

Re: has the world gone mad.. or is justified?
 

I can see the difficulty for a man, to extend a helping hand....but it a very sad indictment on the state of the world.

Re: has the world gone mad.. or is justified?
 

A few weeks ago Ty did a runner in town and was found by a teenage lad... the lad stopped a woman and asked her for help because he said he didnt want to take him to find a security guard by himself.... when i got tyler back i was too relieved to find him to think about the fact that it was a lad that had found him... the poor lad looked terrified!!

Luckily he was more bothered about a child being lost. BUT in the middle of a busy day in town he was the only person that stopped to help a very scared little boy who was in a state when i got to him!

Re: has the world gone mad.. or is justified?
 

I think the media do a lot to scare people.....they make us think that everyone is to viewed with suspicion......and while I agree it is not sensible to suspend all your concerns, I do think that the majority of people would not harm a lost child....but so much fear has been instilled in the general public that they now view helping distressed children/elderly/disabled as a liability and they won't get involved for fear of the consequences.......and that is really sad.

Re: has the world gone mad.. or is justified?
 

It's a couple of years since I saw a child in what seemed to be distress, I was walking home from the Stag one afternoon with Mick.

A little girl about 3 or 4 years wailing in the middle of the street declaring she was on her own and lost, I knelt down in front of her to ask what was wrong, immediately she changed her cry of woe to HELP, HELP, A STRANGER IS TALKING TO ME WHERE IS MY SISTER?

A girl of about 8 years of age came out of a house nearby and dragged her in.

I was in two minds,

1/ She had been taught to shout at the top of her voice, GOOD!

2/ I've just put myself through an embarrassing situation for a little sheet having a tantrum.

I think I would still try to find out and attempt to help rather than ignore and feel regret if something was to happen because I walked by though.

Re: has the world gone mad.. or is justified?
 

This situation has happened to me a number of times, the ones that stand out are: in a museum in London where a baby (about 12 months old) made a lightening jump into a lift just as h/b and I had pressed the button and in Hyndburn Swimming Pool where a girl about 8 yrs came over crying because she had lost her parent.
I think it is because the can sense that I am an ex teacher!
I have never felt threatened by the situation and would always help out, but on the whole I prefer to find lost dogs!

Re: has the world gone mad.. or is justified?
 

I think I was 9 when my mother first let me go into Accrington by myself, from West End. I had been going alone to St Mary's school for well over a year. I still remember the instructions I was given, then and for some years after, that if I lost my way or felt uneasy and there wasn't a policeman around (there really were policemen around in those days) I should ask a woman for directions, not a man. I suppose that crumb of parental comfort was eroded, by 1965, with Myra Hindley but I was a mother myself by then. So things haven't changed, gender-wise, in that sphere and a would-be-helpful male was just as much mistrusted in 1951 as now.

Coming to what I would do now, in such a situation, I would go to help any distressed child. My instinct would be to offer protection, as I think would most women's. I think the only difference might be that I wouldn't cuddle and comfort a sobbing child - which once I would have done. I would want to but it's so open to misinterpretation. Isn't that sad?

Re: has the world gone mad.. or is justified?
 

As a bloke and a parent of a nearly 3 year old son, me and the missus took him to a pre-school day (ie where you decide if its the right school for him). I think I was the only day there, and at one time was playing aeroplanes with him, just some small toy ones. Within about 2 minutes I had a crowd of 4 kids around me and we were all playing. Not once did any mother come up and take their child away, or give disapproving looks etc. And I wasnt worried as I know I am not a paedophile.

However for an outside point of view, I call my son sweetheart sometimes(coz he is), give him lots of kisses and cuddles and play games with him all the time (he actually tells me I am his best friend). Its a sad indictment on the world when this is seen as a "potential concern", because we are pandering to do-goeders who want to debase everything to the lowest common denominator ie the fact that 0.0001% of people are paedos.

My natural instinct since becoming a dad would be to help ( the very thought of my kid lost and no-one helping is terrible). However it would only take on bad incident and I think that would change. As mentioned its sad that a man is more mistrusted than a woman, but thats the media...Any man could be a paedo (and 0.0001% are) therefore lets assume ALL men are until they prove otherwise....

Re: has the world gone mad.. or is justified?
 

:dancedog::dancedog:Unfortunately this is a natural technique that we all deploy all day about any unknown persons ........... If we see a teenager with wearing a hoodie he is a potential problem till proven otherwise, if we see a man with a balaclava on out in the dark he is a masked murderer - until proven otherwise. It is the way the human race survives, we develop stereotypes which help us to protct ourselves.
As for the previous comments about not hugging and cuddling a distressed child it is a problem that teachers have had for a good number of years. It affect Special Needs teachers in particular. some of their children desperately need hugs and cuddles but as these kids are often very vulnerable it something that many caring teachers have to try to avoid. A very sad reflection on the state of society

Re: has the world gone mad.. or is justified?
 

I would definately go and see if a child was ok if they looked lost and upset but sadly i can understand why it may look bad if a man were to approach them.
What terrible times we live in when you can't even help a child without there possibly being consequences.

Re: has the world gone mad.. or is justified?
 

since around 96, my view has been "ignore em" prior to that i only had 2 instances of that kind of experiance, both bad, n made me feel very uncomfortable, if people don't like that attitude " Tough" i would hate fer any bloke to be in such an uncomfortable situation through trying to help, i certainly never will again.

Re: has the world gone mad.. or is justified?
 

That is such a shame Cashy when decent people feel that they can't help without being suspected of having an ulterior motive!! As for the CRB checks they mean nothing to me after Huntley got his dirty hands on those two innocent little girls!!

Re: has the world gone mad.. or is justified?
 

CRB checks merely prove that someone has never been caught. They can never asses what is going in someone else's head. Unfortunately CRB checks are best we have got and the best we are going to get.
that said gut instinct goes a long way and should not be under rated

Re: has the world gone mad.. or is justified?
 

Well in that case gut instinct didn't work where evil Huntley was concerned!!! We need a much more radical way of making sure these monsters are kept away from the children.

Re: has the world gone mad.. or is justified?
 

I don't think we can make that judgment based on the knowledge we have. The head of the school that Huntley was at may very well have had a gut feeling or not, but s/he would not have been able to go on any gut feeling if the CRB check came back clear

Re: has the world gone mad.. or is justified?
 

I though CRB's were put into place because of Huntley??

And i think i read somewhere that he did have a criminal record so wouldnt have got past the CRB check.... now EVERYONE who comes into contact with children... builders (if they are working on a school etc)partners and children of childminders etc.........

Re: has the world gone mad.. or is justified?
 

But he/she if their gut feeling was strong enough could have checked it out. Maybe then it would have become clear that he was using a different name!!!

Re: has the world gone mad.. or is justified?
 

Last time I tried to help a young un little witch tried to pick my pocket ,

Re: has the world gone mad.. or is justified?
 

CRB's were introduced under the Police Act 1997 and were heavily criticised because of the Soham murders. They have become much more prominent since Ian Huntley though. I think they weren't seen as compulsory for ALL people working in schools til this point, just those working directly with the children.

I haven't helped a lost child since being at an age were I could be perceived as a full grown adult to the majority, probably last time I helped a lost child I would've been around 16. I don't think I would ignore a child who was blatantly lost, but normally I look around for a childs parents before approaching them, because I imagine parents would react with hostility if they saw an adult talking to their child.

I don't think it is a sad thing at all. As people have mentioned, there was at one point naive attitudes towards women until myra hindley knocked us to reality. Both genders are capable of evil things and everyone should be cautious around strangers. Being young in this era means I have lived entirely in this tense society, but thankfully I will have been taught what to do in all circumstances. 50 or so years ago I might have happily jumped into a car with a woman if I got lost, and it could have easily have been a woman like hindley. Today I am aware that men AND women are capable of molesting, kidnapping and killing children.

Re: has the world gone mad.. or is justified?
 

Blazey, you don't find this situation sad purely because of the life you have lived......as you say, you have been brought up in the time when it isn't unusual for folk to 'walk on by'........unlike a lot of us older members. We remember a time when people did what they could to help a fellow human being in trouble.......and they were hard times too, just after the war. This 'helping nature' was the glue that held society together and were what distinguished true communities....so while you know nothing different, you cannot be sad for what has gone because it wasn't in your era......but I am saddened because it WAS in my era.

Re: has the world gone mad.. or is justified?
 

Re: has the world gone mad.. or is justified?
 

Well the kid who found Ty has done much to dispel that stereotype, and we'll never know who he is - but much respect to him. :mosher:


I don't tend to worry about what people think- I've usually got my uniform on even when not working (free advertising) and I think it reassures people as it means you lose some anonymity that anyone with ulterior motives would crave.

My only recent experience was running to help a kid who was obviously about to fall out of the climbing frame at the park behind Great Harwood co-op. His mum was just walking to him, still talking over her shoulder to her mate, but sprinted when she saw me and shouldered me away. The idea of her child breaking a fall onto tarmac with his face didn't catalyse her into action, but seeing someone else trying to do her job speeded her up. At least he was OK. I'd do the same again.



My wife is glad her grandad died when he did. He spent much time on a bench at the playground because he liked the sound of children laughing and playing. Who doesn't? These days, he'd be vilified.

Re: has the world gone mad.. or is justified?
 

I was (as mentioned in another thread) in Lytham on sunday, 3 girls aged around 7 - 9 were wandering aimlessly, looking worried, all I could think of to do at the time was take my daughter and walk behind them untill a fairly drunken mother came to find them, she also looked worried for the missing trio, once I saw they were back with the mother (despite objecting to her state) I carried on where I left off, 2 minutes up the road, a boy and a girl were jumping off a wall onto a sand hill, it was high on one side and it was fairly obvious what would happen if they fell the wrong way off the wall, we watched for a minute or so, then found a pcso who stopped the children from climbing the wall, the father turned up after around half an hour, with a glass of beer in his hand, he told them to carry on playing and he would be back in half an hour for them, they were about 9 and 10, he went back across the field, and a main road to the pub he came from, then after 5 minutes the mother turned up, obviously angry and took the kids with her, I couldnt work out if she was angry because her husband had left them there, or because they had been interrupted having thier drink. It impacted on our day, and is sad that so many just leave thier kids to fend for themselves for the sake of selfishness.

Re: has the world gone mad.. or is justified?
 

It is very sad, and comes back once again to the biggest danger to many children is not a stranger but their own parents.

Re: has the world gone mad.. or is justified?
 

never a truer word spoken.:(

Re: has the world gone mad.. or is justified?
 

The main flaw of the CRB check is that they only check one name.

I remember reading that Ian Huntley fell out with his father so he started calling himself Ian Nixon. Nixon was his mother's maiden name.

He came to the attention of the authorities in the 1990s several times for attempted rape and sexual relations with underage girls all whilst he was going by the name of Nixon.

Shortly before taking the Soham caretaker job he was reconciled with his father so started calling himself Huntley again.

When the school in Soham did the CRB check they only checked the name he gave them which was Ian Huntley.

Had they checked the name Ian Nixon the offences he was investigated for would have come up and he wouldn't have got the job.

I am told that the reason the CRB only check one name is that it would be too costly to check two names, especially where women are concerned as a lot of women have maiden names and it would cost too much to run two checks on everyone who has had two names. Therefore they only check the name a person currently uses.

This is how Huntley slipped through the net. How many more have slipped through the net? We don't know.

I do find it all very sad. Children and decent people are having to suffer for all this obsession with paedophiles. It drives me mad sometimes. :(

Re: has the world gone mad.. or is justified?
 

Given the amount of ID they need to process a CRB they should be able to pick up all names used...

Re: has the world gone mad.. or is justified?
 

That's true.

You need a lot of I.D don't you?

I had to show my driving licence, birth certificate and passport. :eek:

Re: has the world gone mad.. or is justified?
 

Really????? When I had mine, Disclosure Scotland administered it, I did it over the web, put my details in paid my £10.00 and a few weeks later had it.
Now getting a UK Airside pass, well that took a bit of time, however if you wanted to it could be faked, fake references are not that hard. I find it crazy that it is so easy to get airside in the UK and bearing that in mind it must be really easy to get a CRB faked

Re: has the world gone mad.. or is justified?
 

My other half has had to have a CRB check as acts as an exam invigilator at a local Sec Mod, and she is also working as a chaperone on film and tv sets for young up and coming child actors as well as working as an extra, she's working on Waterloo Road at the Moment or was last week.

Re: has the world gone mad.. or is justified?
 

Re: has the world gone mad.. or is justified?
 

Really? I have had a few CRB checks either standard & enhanced dependant on the position i hold, ALL of names used former & currently are on & have been checked - it states so, which is brilliant:D, mind u ive nothing to hide & prefer it that way but wonder about those that dont disclose other names used or former ones:confused:

Re: has the world gone mad.. or is justified?
 

It is a mad world, I used to run 2 adult football teams, when I was asked to start one for youngsters, I decided against it, this was because of the many convictions of priests, schoolteachers and the like, without the help of a woman, I was not prepared to put myself in a position where people MIGHT think I had ulterior motives, and that was around 8 years ago, I would definately help a child who seemed lost, but would have the same fears and misgivings about it as some have already said!