Hyndburn Transport
 

Hi

Looking for help again I'm afraid! I'm at the moment considering putting together a history of Hyndburn Transport- following on from the excellent Peter Gould's Accrington Corporation publication.

Questions are -

Does anyone know if this is already being done? No point duplicating effort!

And does anyone have access to information about the operations which would help with the basic research? Employees and their experiences; management and their strategies; fleet listings; operations; the later hire operations; what led to the sale to stagecoach ..... etc etc.

My own objective is to provide brain food since enforced early retirement and to try to keep a part of local 'history' alive - too much has been lost from East Lancashire in recent years!

Any input welcome! Thanks

Paul Savage

Re: Hyndburn Transport
 

Try this:

Operator Fleet Histories: A-F

Re: Hyndburn Transport
 

The old lady next for was a clipper in the war, she even has her old ticket machine..

If you want me to ask her if she would be happy to chat let me know.

Re: Hyndburn Transport
 

Thanks for the reply. I'm actually looking for information for a later period - from around 1974 when Accrington Corporation Transport became Hyndburn Transport and clippies were long gone!

But I do appreciate you taking the time to reply, thanks.

Re: Hyndburn Transport
 

What sort of info are you after. I have a friend who drove for Accrington Corporation.

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I'm not aware of Peter Gould's book. published 'Accrington's Public Transport' by Robert Rush but cannot find any copies. Please give details of Gould's book.

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Sorry, I'm getting my names mixed up! Peter has detailed info on the fleets with a brief history and I meant to refer to Robert's book. Senior moment I'm afraid.

Re: Hyndburn Transport
 

I have this possibly crazy idea of picking up where Robert Rush left off with his history of Accrington Transport and putting together an account of the last years of operation of 'Accrington's Buses' under the Hyndburn Transport brand.

The local transport industry has been an interest for many years with involvement with both manufacturers and operators and I find the demise of the local identities across the whole sector a little 'sad'. My idea is to do some little bit to keep the history alive.

The information I'm looking for is to build the story of what happened in the final years from 1974 to the sale to Stagecoach - how the operation was affected by things like deregulation and competition; what were the strategies developed to try to counter this and maintain the business; what was it like to work for the company and the story of the these years from the employee perspective - the vehicles, the working atmospheres etc; the management view. All supported by photos where possible.

Also information on the hire fleet and operations and the Just The Ticket wing of the business - all things I remember, but have no real concept of.

I'm at the very early stage at the moment so any information on what it was like to manage, work for or be involved with the business would be welcome. I am currently waiting for answers from the Council, the vehicle manufacturers, fleet list compilers etc for the facts, so the personal experiences from within the business would be very welcome.

It's important that information relates to the Hyndburn transport operation after 1974 and not for the previous Accrington Corporation operation, already covered by Robert Rush whose name I've already mixed up!

Thanks for your reply - hope the above ramble clarifies things?

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Whoops! Sorry, I'm just getting used to this site again and should have used 'Quote' to reply to posts above. Last one is for maxthecollie and the one before is for Bob Dobson. I'll get it right before long. Promise!!!

Re: Hyndburn Transport
 

You know much more about the scene than I, but I suggest ( thoughts of grandmothers sucking eggs) talking to the Pilkingtons who have the guest house on Blackbnurn Rd and (I think) the garage in Paxton St.

Re: Hyndburn Transport
 

Thanks Bob, I'll get that into my list of actions, which is now starting to look meaningful.

Re: Hyndburn Transport
 

Initial research is under way for the Hyndburn Transport story detailed above ..... does anyone know the whereabouts of Andrew Gill, who I understand was the MD of the company at the end?

I would very much like to talk to him if this is at all possible about the HT story - I would respect any request for privacy, would be happy to make introduction through a third party, or put questions in writing rather than face to face; I just believe the gentleman could provide a wealth of information about the key final years of the operation.

The 'story' will be a factual one reflecting on the demise and loss of Accrington's own buses, and will not set out to be controversial or judgemental.

So, if anyone can help put me in touch with Mr Gill, I would love to hear from you.

Many thanks

Paul

Re: Hyndburn Transport
 

Did he not set up Rigbys Coaches.?

Re: Hyndburn Transport
 

i know some of the drivers who worked for hyndburn transport still drive for transdev or whatever theyre called ...cos they still say hiya to me when i get on ...

Re: Hyndburn Transport
 

I'll take a look at that one - I know Rigby's were a part of Hyndburn Transport at one point, so it's a logical move for Andrew to 'take that with him'.

Thanks.

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It'll be interesting to speak to some of the drivers at some stage so I'll come back on that one if that's ok? And see if something can be arranged.

Thanks!

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I have a copy of Accrington's Public Transport 1886-1986 by Robert Rush. Includes fleets from 1928-1986, Bus Routes etc.
I also worked on the system in the 60s.
I suppose this information is available still but you are welcom if needed'

Re: Hyndburn Transport
 

I do have a copy of the book thanks, but would be interested in more about your experiences of working for the business. The 60's are before the time I'm looking for for my research (after the change to Hyndburn in '74), but there are definitely things I would like to learn about life from the employees' angle.

Were you a driver? engineer? I would like to get some background on what it was like to work for the department - the attitudes to the vehicles (there were one or two unusual types I recall), to the management, to the working practices etc. I assume nothing much changed in those respects when things changed to Hyndburn?

Appreciate your reply and if there are any thoughts about your time there that you would like to share, they'd be most welcome.

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I was involved in the sale of Hyndburn Transport to Stagecoach in 1996, Paul. From memory, the Council had been advised that a sale was inevitable, and we commissioned a study by KPMG to determine the way forward, how to go about selling the Company and how much it was worth. If you can get hold of a copy of the report from the Council, it might give you some valuable information.

I don't know what the rules on confidentiality are, because it was all treated with great secrecy at the time. With the passing of time, such secrecy may no longer be necessary. The Council legal team will be able to advise you, and a request under the freedom of information rules might be possible.

Re: Hyndburn Transport
 

i only know that because i worked in the early 90s for rossendale transport ... hyndburns competitors ... i know them by sight but dont ask me their names .. ive slept since then ... :o:p

Re: Hyndburn Transport
 

That should provide a good level of information if I can get hold of a copy. The Council have referred me to the library saying they don't have any archive records at all of Hyndburn Transport so possibly time to call in our local councillor to do some digging I think!!

I'll be visiting the library in the next few days to see what they have - may even have the report with a bit of luck. I have quite a lot of press cuttings from the sale period which give some indication of what seemed to be a somewhat unsettled process involving the likes of Blackpool Transport, Rossendale and ultimately, Stagecoach. Be interesting to fit the pieces together properly!

Thanks for the information - I really appreciate people taking the time to help.

Re: Hyndburn Transport
 

No problem! I can take a look at the Transdev folk directly and see if I can find some ex Hyndburn guys to speak to, now I know there are still some around.

Thanks again.

Re: Hyndburn Transport
 

The Council normally only keeps files for about 7 years, so asking for a file from 16 years ago was always going to be a long shot. I remember a meeting with Tony Depledge from Blackpool Transport, and we spoke to Blackburn and Rossendale. There was also another of the big name companies, a rival to Stagecoach, whose name escapes me.

The Stagecoach offer was the only one on the table, which was controversial because Stagecoach's reputation at that time was not good.

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Suggesd you check the catalogue of Lancashire Archives on the web. Ask the library to check their stock on the computer. Go to the upstairs desk, not the ground floor. Ask for Kath or John who have the most knowledge of the stock.

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I'm starting with the library tomorrow, so thanks for the contact names Bob; and the web is starting to become my second home - although with limited results so far.

But the project has quickly become real and whilst I'm very experienced in market research, looking into this subject is really something of a learning curve. So I'm very grateful for all the input received so far. As for your previous comment of 'grandmother and eggs', one thing I've learned in life is that you're never too old to learn!

Thanks again.

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Yes, Stagecoach had a reputation for forcing Councils into selling - Lancaster and Darlington I think were two such examples. Interesting to see they have such a good reputation these days!

I'm chasing the library lead this week, so hoping they may be able to come up with the report - and Bob Dobson has passed on a couple of names there which may help. I will of course let you know how that goes.

Meantime, a big thanks for your interest and help, and if you do think of anything else ....... !!

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I was involved as a Councillor when the decision to sell was made. Deregulation as you mentioned was one of the main contributory factors in the decision to sell, as it was for Local Authorities up and down the Country. I know one or two Authorities managed to hang on to their bus fleets, but not many. It was essentially about being being able compete financially following deregulation . As for some of the information your after, there a few of the people who were involved at the time still knocking about. But unfortunately some of those who were closely involved, certainly at a member level are no longer with us. I'll make enquires and see what I can come up with.

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Thankyou Bernard - that is greatly appreciated. Any information would be of great use. I am seeing that there were a lot of 'politics' around at the time and the final sale appears to have been a bit controversial, but I want to avoid being judgemental and make the story a readable piece which folk can relate to.

As you say, it was a sign of the times following deregulation and the interest will be in how Hyndburn tried to cope with this and hold on to the public transport operation until it became impossible.

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We started off working as a Conductor collecting fares and issuing tickets then iwas taught to drive the busses. I did know quite a few of the oldies. Dick Owens was quite a character. Charlie Bell was the Accrington Corporation Driving Instructor. The depot was in Ellison Street. I was gone by the late 60s due to going to Australia. A lot of intrigue "On The Buses" as I recall. What type of history are you looking for?

Re: Hyndburn Transport
 

Thanks for your message.

From an employee viewpoint, I'd like to find out what it was like to work for Hyndburn Transport. From the outside, it seemed like a generally decent operation, but how was it really for the workforce? Things like relationships with management, what passengers really thought of the service (I'm sure drivers picked up on this?), what did drivers think of the fleet and how it was looked after - it's the 'inside story' I need to paint a picture of the business rather than examples of 'on the road' experiences.

My overall aim is to tell the story of the last years of Hyndburn Transport; how it changed from a typical council owned business (this is where the background information comes in); how it dealt with the pressures of deregulation and increased competition and why it finally died. I want to include insight from employees and management, policies, hard data on the fleet and its developments - anything which will help put meat on bones.

Re: Hyndburn Transport
 

Hi, I worked for their subsidiary Rigbys Coaches in Eccles MCr from about 1993 until Stagecoach took over & shut it all down. School contracts around Bolton/Farnworth area, plus the 500 Bolton > Airport. My understanding at the time was that Blackpool transport were on the verge of signing the cheque, so to speak, when it all fell through (due to the fact all their staff were actually striking for pay & conditions; I guess it was hard to claim pot was empty whilst also paying £millions buying up other concerns...?) This was bad news for us, as they were also Municipal & seemed a safer bet than Ms Gloags outfit! Briefly, they were a Very good company, Andrew Gill would come down to Eccles to keep us in the loop, seemed a nice guy. Similairly Colin Mansfield operations manager - would come & drive a bus if needed !! Inspector Stan Tucker , my line manager - nicest guy you could meet; there was a real family feel to Hyndburn, much more so than GMPTE for whom I had worked previously..
Happy days! If I can help with anything please ask
Steve

ps Andrew Gill did not go with Rigbys, that was taken over by Derek Moorhouse who ran the coaching side of the business ("just the Ticket") I believe it`s still trading, saw a coach near Old Trafford recently'

Re: Hyndburn Transport
 

Hi Steve. Thanks for the information and sorry for the delayed reply - been away for a few days.

I've hit a few problems with the project, mainly the 'political' stuff, so things have slowed considerably at the moment and I am looking at a bit of a re-structure of approach. I've also come across another party with a proposition which will change the ultimate focus of the project, but I'm still looking for the information.

I had an email from Colin Mansfield at Rigby's (who are still very much around) and hope to talk to him in the near future, but Andrew Gill is proving more elusive. He did go to Lancashire CC, but left there earlier this year, so I've just missed him! Unfortunatelyt, it's a sacking offence at LCC for staff to pass on contact details of ex employees, so rather stuck there!

Appreciate your posting! I'll keep you in the loop and once things move forward, I'll be in touch again - the Rigby's operations under the Council will dfefinitely be of interest.

Re: Hyndburn Transport
 

Hi glad you`ve had mail from Colin, - nice guy!
I did help out at Ellison st depot in the last weeks before it closed, clearing stores, putting stuff in skips etc etc. I did take the opportunity to take quite a few photos for posterity; offices, cashroom, workshops, pits - loads of buses in various states of dismemberment. If these are of use, or if you know of anyone who cou;ld archive these, please let me know?
Steve

Re: Hyndburn Transport
 

Thanks Steve. I've sent you an email in response to your last posting.

Re: Hyndburn Transport
 

..............................................Teve . Good thinbking. Please bear in mind the interests of Accrington Library They would love to have copies of your photos. If contacting, ask for John Simpson. [email protected]

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Thanks for the pics Steve - a good record of Ellison Street in its last days. I'll make sure they are widely seen, including sending them on to Accrington Library for you as Bob suggested.

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Any chance of posting some of them on here, Paul, or are you saving them for your book?

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Never thought of that! If Steve's happy for me to do so, I don't see a problem as I am definitely not looking to make anything exclusive to myself. I'll ask the question .....!

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OK, I and I'm sure many other members will look forward to them, Steve's permission permitting. :)

Re: Hyndburn Transport
 

I've just created a Flickr Group from my main account pages where I've uploaded Steve's photos for all to see. You can access at Flickr: Hyndburn Transport 1996

Steve wants the images to be seen and used by anyone interested.

If anyone has other images they would like to share, please feel free to add to the Flickr group pool; it would be great if we could get this to be a public archive of photos of the operations!

Re: Hyndburn Transport
 

Cheers, Paul. Some very interesting shots there. :)

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It's certainly a good selection of pictures and I'm very glad that Steve not only had the foresight to take them, but took the trouble to make them available.

There's quite a lot of Hyndburn Transport pics out there on the internet so I'm going to try to get permission from the various owners for some more to be added to the group. The page visits have gone crazy today since I set up the group indicating there is a definite interest in the Hyndburn stuff, so we'll see what develops.

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Civilised conduct from a Savage.

Re: Hyndburn Transport
 

We try!!!! :D

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My dad worked there for years ,70s till he retired a few years ago , ill see if i can get him to reply to this post
ian

Re: Hyndburn Transport
 

Thanks Ian.

Re: Hyndburn Transport
 

An Update ......

I set out a few months ago to try to bring together enough information on Hyndburn Transport to enable me to produce 'something' to tell the story of the last years of the public owned transport operations in Hyndburn.

Sadly, whilst I have had a great response from this site, other research has proved less fruitful with a series of missing information, brick walls, red tape and unkept promises from a variety of sources. Meaning progress has slowed to a virtual stop! But the project is still alive!!

I have a renewed respect for anyone who succeeds in producing anything on local history!! :-).

I am still wanting to gather as much information on the Hyndburn Transport operations between 1974 and the sale to Stagecoach in 1996, but whether the final product is achieved as originally planned is very much up in the air now.

In the meantime, a big thanks to all who have provided information so far - and if there is more out there, I would love to see it!!

Thanks

Paul Savage