Where is Hyndburn going?
 

We have recently had the sad news that several major retailers are moving out of town - including Marks and Spencers, Homebase and Morrisons. I constantly here people saying that the town centre is run down and in decline. True - maybe it has seen better times but one thing the area has goy is a proud heritage and great people. I sometimes think we are too quick to put our town down. We have some great buildings and great country side and many green spaces are being made more accessible to the general public. We are also a multiracial community which, on the whole gets on well and shows a lot of mutual respect.

So lets try and look at some of the positives and try and reduce some of the negatives and maybe we can help take out great town forward.:balloon3:

Re: Where is Hyndburn going?
 

You are right about the countryside, you are right about the heritage of the town, but there is no denying that the town is in something of a rut.
It isn't talking down the town to tell the truth about it...in fact doing anything else is blatantly dishonest.
People will not come to Accrington(and it is Accrington - not Hyndburn) to take in the green spaces.(most towns have their own green spaces)
They will not come because the people are multiracial and get on well together.

The buildings you talk of, must include the Market hall...but that is nothing without the commercial enterprise which is needed to fill it with people...and that isn't happening.
We won't talk of the monstrosity that is the council offices on Broadway (improved somewhat now it is covered by the Pals banner).
We won't mention the air of dereliction along Blackburn Road...a main route into the town.
Yes we have a fine Town Hall...and if you want a bit of a hike we have the fine building that is Haworth Art Gallery.......but that is the sum total of the fine buildings and personally I wouldn't travel any distance to see any of them.

People used to come to Accrington from other local towns...they came for a bustling market, for the market hall, for the shops.
I know that shopping habits and trends have meant that this is less likely to happen.

You carry on seeing the place through your rose tinted glasses if that makes you happy...but I think that Accrington is too far gone to be resurrected with any success.

Other towns, we are told, are in a similar situation, but yet selling points, attractions are found and their appeal is maximised....this is not happening in our town.

Re: Where is Hyndburn going?
 

Rose Tinted Glasses? sorry i think its drugs.:D

Re: Where is Hyndburn going?
 

Well whatever it is....it isn't really a true perspective.
I have been lucky enough to live in the town when it was a great place to be...and maybe that is why I can see the town the way I do.Those growing up here now know no different so they will see the place far differently.
I can remember when the market was thronged with people.....when folk came from Blackburn, Burnley and Darwen purely to shop on the great market.....with Uncle Dick calling his pitches......with Ray Lyndon and everything half a crown...yes that dates me doesn't it.
I can remember when the Carnival in the town would bring the place to a standstill....I can remember the Easter Fair, the pot fair....these were all things that used to draw people into the town.
A sad, half empty Market Hall, a threadbare Market, an Arndale that has as many empty outlets as occupied ones(or nearly), a town centre with fake shops(you know...those that are empty, but made to look like they are occupied by putting a picture over the windows) doesn't make for an interesting or welcoming town.
It all contributes to a very 'down at heel' sort of feeling.....not something you would travel to...but with a shiny new bus station in the offing, might want to escape from.
Taking money away from the local economy and into some other towns coffers.

Re: Where is Hyndburn going?
 

Down the pan.

Re: Where is Hyndburn going?
 

Great buildings and great countryside don't pay my bills.

Can't say anymore in case as you aren't allowed to point out the obvious otherwise it's negative. Just stick your head back in the sand and it will all be fine

Re: Where is Hyndburn going?
 

By the way, have you thought of sending the question to the council. Let us know what the reply is please. :)

Re: Where is Hyndburn going?
 

Maybe that would be a pointless exercise.....I don't think any of them have a clue......and some of them are probably wearing the same brand of rose tinted specs.
When the population of the town point out what is obvious to all of us....we get accused of talking the place down.

Re: Where is Hyndburn going?
 

It's all political games. If you say anything they say you're being negative, if you don't say anything they tell you nobody is complaining so there's nothing wrong.

Re: Where is Hyndburn going?
 

Yes...you have nailed it there.

Re: Where is Hyndburn going?
 

You are right Margaret about folk coming from neighbouring towns for the market. When I was at Peel Park I hated the Burnley holidays as when I finished school at 4pm I would run along Alice Street to Burnley Road to catch the Padiham bus home which were only every hour with the Burnley bus on the next half hour and every one for an hour or more sometimes would go past full. I remember as a 6 yr old standing crying not having the sense to walk down to Melbourne street to where they started from. Luckily a relative came past and took me down to Melbourne Street. There are very few busy markets now I am afraid and most town centres have empty shops. Sad but a fact today.

Re: Where is Hyndburn going?
 

Bury Market is still a bustling concern...but yes shopping habits have changed.
Towns that thrive are those which have found something they can capitalise on.
Calling Accrington a 'Floral Market Town' doesn't cut it...not when the market is as dire as it is.

Re: Where is Hyndburn going?
 

I can't understand why Chorley, a slightly smaller town which also lost all it's industry, can still be a thriving town while Accrington slowly disappears down the plug hole!

Chorley doesn't have a market hall but it does have a thriving covered market full of good stalls and busy. The Flat Irons open market on Tuesdays is always busy.
The bus station is newish but only small, maybe room for 10 buses, but it's on the edge of a small shopping arcade(also fairly new) where most of the shops are occupied.
Parking fees are cheap with plenty available(except on Flat Irons day).
There's no M&S, Booths in the centre(busy), Morrisons on the edge and Tesco a mile or two out.
Full of floral displays in summer, full of lights at Xmas.
And they didn't destroy the older town buildings and put up concrete, ugly rubbish as Accrington did!

It's a thriving little town.

If Chorley can do it, Accrington should be able to.

You've got to blame the various councils that have presided over the decline of a once busy town full of heart. No vision, no planning, no heart!

Re: Where is Hyndburn going?
 

I could not have said it better myself.....especially the 'no vision' and the 'no heart'.....And the really painful bit is that none of them seem to care!
Yes they pay lip service to wanting to promote Accrington....but there is no tangible proof that anyone in a position to make a difference, is actually doing anything.

Re: Where is Hyndburn going?
 

I think Accrington lost it's way when it tried to compete with it's larger neighbours and ended up being nothing to anyone.

Traditionally, Accrington was a Victorian Market town and thrived because of that fact. Now, you have removed the traditional market and built a town which offers no incentive to visit. I saw the decline before I left, with a half full outside market and an invasion of pound shops.

While all this was going on, Ossy Mills sprang up and attracted 'out of town shoppers'. I am not sure if Ossy Mills is still thriving but it has to be doing a better job of offering a shopping experience than the centre of Accy.

Re: Where is Hyndburn going?
 

Ossy mills still seems to do very well.people still come from all oer, we call in at least a couple of times a week, no set days or pattern of time, and its never dead, We can have just come from a quiet accy centre on the way home n ossy mills is pretty busy. Which i would imagine "Bogtrotter"is aware of that fact, cos he lives in ossy also,

Re: Where is Hyndburn going?
 

Ossy mills is still busy by dint of the fact that coach companies use it as one of their excursions.....and sometimes there are three or four coaches there at a time.
I know that Ma and I were on a coach holiday in St Anne's and one of the trips out was to Ossy Mills.....Ma said she would give that the swerve and go on the prom instead.

Re: Where is Hyndburn going?
 

Thats the point i'm trying to make, its cos ossy mills is worth a visit i reckon.

Re: Where is Hyndburn going?
 

Well, Cashy those on the coach tours are a captive audience.....many go because they want to feel they have got their money's worth.
I know there are times when I have been hauled along to the Pringles centre on Anglesey....not because I actually wanted to go there,but because there were other elements of the day trip that I did want to see.....and I could not do the one I wanted unless I went along to the Pringles centre.....which,like many of these outlets,is overpriced.

Re: Where is Hyndburn going?
 

Aye Margaret, but me point is How many coach tours pop off at accy centre as part of the trip? also we have spoken too quite a few that have come oer in the car pretty regular, we nearly always walk unless we been down accy, cos its hard work parking yon and theres plenty of spaces.

Re: Where is Hyndburn going?
 

None...to my knowledge.
I do think that Ossy mills is one of the better outlets...and you can always find something in there that tickles your fancy...even if it is only Coltsfoot rock or Sarsaparilla drops

Re: Where is Hyndburn going?
 

A few years ago, whilst on holiday in Mablethorpe in Lincolnshire, I spotted a poster in the window of a coach company advertising an excursion to Ossy Mills. That's a fair old drive, I was surprised people would travel so far to come to Oswaldtwistle.

Re: Where is Hyndburn going?
 

Those advertisements could easily have been to:- Accrington, "Traditional Victorian Market Town and Handicraft Outlet' if you had been blessed with Councillors with vision.

We have a Council here in Morecambe, with a similar mindset and they are looking to create a wonderful new shopping area on what used to be Frontierland. This will benefit the larger chain stores, who could afford the high rents but do nothing for the smaller, independent retailers who give any town it's unique character.

Re: Where is Hyndburn going?
 

And which "Cloud Cuckoo Land" do you inhabit?

Re: Where is Hyndburn going?
 

With six words and a hyphen, Margaret encapsulates what is the root of EVERYTHING that has gone wrong over the past 40 years.

A silly council with silly boundaries. A collection of townships with a mutual hatred and mistrust of each other bound together by the name of a stream nobody has ever heard of or used. Totally irrelevant as an entity to most citizens. Totally anonymous to anyone outside the area.

40 years of blurred thinking, confused corporate vision, and zero political investment in the future. Two party squabbling over the minutiae of local point scoring, and an area left out in the cold when the serious money is distributed.

And a Hyndburn town centre (Hyndburn, Margaret, not Accrington - that is what we were saddled with in 1974, and where on earth is the town centre of Oswaldtwistle, Church, Clayton or Huncoat?) that is paying the price of 40 years befuddlement.

Re: Where is Hyndburn going?
 

It is Accrington which has the heritage.....not Hyndburn.
Hyndburn is an invention.......and as you so rightly observe Hyndburner, that is when things started to go badly awry.
A conglomeration of small towns that didn't identify with this name but were lumped together for convenience.
If you mention Accrington, there is a fair chance that people know what area you are referring to, but mention Hyndburn and all you get is a blank expression

Hyndburner, I agree with everything in your last post.....well said!

Re: Where is Hyndburn going?
 

They're all villages. Hyndburn with Accrington(a town) as its centre of administration shouldn't be a problem- if it was properly run!

Have you seen the size of Chorley Rural District- it covers a vast area(78 square miles)and includes 23 parishes- many of them quite large successful villages. And yet it works and Chorley the Town thrives.

Hyndburn is only 28 square miles, quite compact. It has 35 councillors, Chorley manages with 47.

What puzzles me is that in 2010 The Times voted it 'the 10th best public sector to work in'! I can only assume the lack of leadership,effective forward planning and drive from the councillors meant that the council staff found it a lovely, relaxed, laid back place to work in- and still do.

Meanwhile Accrington and Hyndburn slowly disintegrated.

Re: Where is Hyndburn going?
 

It is a false name, just as Greater Manchester is, people living in Wigan for example still put Wigan Lanc's and other towns do similar, guess what? Their mail still gets delivered!

Re: Where is Hyndburn going?
 

we had an indoor market and an outdoor market we didnt need the arndale which the council proved themselves when they built witebirk so that the majority of shops in the arndale could sod off to whitebirk leaving accy in their distant rear view mirrors.

accy center has been allowed to die a slow death ,the trade has been killed , the night life has been killed and theres practically no law presence in town as is clear by what is allowed to roam around it shouting abuse at each other and urinating in the bus shelters

Re: Where is Hyndburn going?
 

Coming soon to a Hyndburn near you, a brand new bus station for them to urinate in.

Re: Where is Hyndburn going?
 

Could have been worse ... could have been "Stinkburn.";)

Re: Where is Hyndburn going?
 

I'm glad you have popped up on here because it just reminded me I need to email you about something

Re: Where is Hyndburn going?
 

I think, in general, you are right. I can't speak to Hyndburn's situation in particular as I don't live there. Never did. I'm from Clayton, bottom end.:alright: There are positives in every community ... ok, most communities ... Damascus isn't doing all that well. And it is a good strategy to work to accentuate the positive and eliminate the negative ... wait! I feel a song coming on.;)

I also like to believe that most municipal politicians do attempt to do the best for their communities. One might not agree with them, but I don't see them as folks who work long, hard hours merely to screw things up.

I don't subscribe to the "Field of Dreams" strategy ... build it; and they will come. One has to work first with the folks who are already there. And if the inhabitants of Hyndburn don't actively support and participate in their own community, nothing ... or "nowt" ... will improve.

In Kingston, we have idiots who complain about the slow pace of snow removal (it's actually pretty damn good; throughout the worst February in recorded history, things slowed from time to time, but never shut down). These same clowns are the ones who complain about tax increases so that Public Works can invest in snow plows.:confused:

As Pogo said: "We have met the enemy, and he is us.";)

Re: Where is Hyndburn going?
 

Eric, things were screwed up by some municipal politicians a long time ago.....that might not have been their aim, but it is what happened.
Talking up a town which is dying on its legs does nothing constructive.
Going out to towns that are succeeding in difficult economic times might be a start.....asking them what the secret is to their business model......and yes you are right about accentuating the positives.....eliminating the negatives. Those things that make the town a poor shopping experience.
But firstly and most importantly you have to accept that there is a problem....not talk about the town as if it is well on the road to Utopia.......and certainly you need to listen to those who live, work,and shop(by necessity) in this town.
There are some municipal politicians that do not want to hear our views because they are perceived as negative....perceived as talking the town down.
This is unhelpful because it means that there cannot be a meaningful dialogue about what is wrong, and no opportunities for sharing ideas as to how to make it better.

Re: Where is Hyndburn going?
 

Help me out on this one, hon. What exactly is a "shopping experience":confused: Is it something like what Walmart promises: And the underpaid greeter says, "Welcome to Walmart. We hope you enjoy your shopping experience. And we also have a McDonalds restaurant on site." ("McDonalds" and "restaurant" in the same sentence:eek: Trust me guys, if you take your date to a "restaurant" where the Maitre D' is wearing a clown suit, you ain't gonna get lucky.)

And I don't think the politicians should get involved in developing a "business model." Leave that to the merchants who have more of a vested interest in it. As a socialist, I believe that governments should control things like railways, road construction and maintenance, snow removal (if you ever get any), policing, garbage pick up, power generation and distribution ... you know, the big things. The little stuff, like what kind of stores there should be downtown is best left to some body like a Chamber of Commerce, or a Downtown Business Improvement Association ... working, of course, with council. Bottom line is, a "business model" is common sense in fancy clothes.

Subtract the things Accy is never going to be. It won't ever be a major tourist destination. There is no lake front or sea front. The climate sucks. There are some nice buildings; but you ain't going to have a World Heritage Site ... well, not since the bog at the bus stop near the Forts has been demolished. Once you take away the stuff that you will never be, work with what's left. Think local. One doesn't need a degree in Urban Planning to see the obvious.

The municipal politicians should provide clean, well-maintained streets, adequate and convenient parking, a safe, well-policed environment, and tax breaks and other incentives for business ... you can't force stores to open or to stay open; but you can make the town "business friendly." And try to encourage folks to shop at home, and buy local products.

Re: Where is Hyndburn going?
 

It is clear that you do not have a woman in your life Eric......or you would know what a shopping experience is. I think you do know what I mean really... But you want me to spell it out for you.

A shopping experience is a town where there is a wide variety of different (quality)shops( not just betting offices, pound shops and charity shops) there should also be somewhere to go for food, somewhere to sit and watch the world go by.....so no, not Walmart and definitely not Mac Donald's.

The council is trying to market the town. We are designated as a 'Floral Market Town'.That name implies that there will be flowers and a market.
Yes during the summer we have some floral displays, but the market is abysmal.

I am perfectly well aware that you cannot force businesses to stay open, but you can ensure that there is an environment of support...or as you put it, make it business friendly.

As for common sense....there isn't too much of that commodity about......and anyway I would call it application of knowledge.
During the past the local politicians have taken great pleasure in scoring points off one another. If one party said it was day the other would say it was night.....and this showed in the fractured way the interests of the town were looked after.
A vast amount of money was spent by our council on resurfacing Broadway....it wasn't that long ago, and already the surface is breaking up and is badly marked and looks scruffy.(I hasten to say that this was done under the previous administration).

I really do believe that local politics should not be yoked to political parties, but should reflect the needs of the community.....then these people who are on the council would work together in harmony....and we would then perhaps, see some progress.
But I cannot see anything much changing soon, especially as when problems or issues are pointed out it is seen as being negative.
When the negative aspect of an area outweigh the positives it is very difficult to,focus on positive aspects.
These are my opinions.

Re: Where is Hyndburn going?
 

Eric you are so right, merchants of all kinds should decide what they can sell without minor politicians sticking a bloody great oar in their business.
Even this site was threatened by one such numpty, he was offended, set the council's officials against the owner, they in turn dismissed the (minor) dogs of law to threaten.
When the Policeman turned up at his door and was told to behave himself and throw the doors of accy Web open for scrutiny. He replied, of course I will officer, just as soon as you produce the correct documentation as is necessary under the various acts guiding us towards forums and their activities. The officer looked confused and suddenly lacked the blustering confidence he showed on the doorstep, walked away obviously to consult his superiors never to be seen again. By the way, the original numpty has since proved to be better than the numpties that wear pinker tinted glasses, they go to court and admit it.😂

Re: Where is Hyndburn going?
 

By the way, I would appreciate your input into the meaning of "shopping experience," and what one has to do to have one of these. Margaret P seems to think that my lack of understanding is due to the lack of a woman in my life. Now I'm all for social experiments; but I'm not prepared to ruin my comfortable existence in the quest for knowledge.

Re: Where is Hyndburn going?
 

Eric I am not suggesting that you look for a woman to share your space...it was just an observation that men who have no female influence(and the critters don't count on this one...lovely though they are) do not appreciate what a shopping experience is.

To them shopping is a bothersome chore.....one which means they have to go out and buy stuff to keep their back and their belly from flopping together...something that will make the microwave go 'ping' or something to stick in the fridge.....preferably with a crown top and brown glass.(or I guess a tinny would do...several would be better)

Re: Where is Hyndburn going?
 

Ah, Shopping experience, allow me to roll the rare ingredient into my fag whilst I contemplate this by joining with my feminine side with the seat down.

My shopping experience is....

looking in the cupboard if it's empty I look in my pocket, if that's empty I put shopping off until it's full.

When it's full I go out spend as little time in the shops spending as little as I can on the most mundane, (no window shopping), then murmur about how I really need to do a good shop.

Just as I pluck up enough courage to do a good shop, I learn that M&S or some other pound shop has closed, so, no point shopping this week either.

Thank goodness there's a pub halfway between my ghost town and my home.

Re: Where is Hyndburn going?
 

I wish to point out that enjoyment of a 'shopping experience' is not specific to gender, and is more dependent upon having a personality which relishes that type of social interaction.

I have never relished 'shopping' in the way that Margaret P does. Even before I became housebound with disabilities, I preferred to shop on line. The tedium of being in a crowd, queuing, and wasting my personal time traveling to get there became an unnecessary waste of time which could be better spent.

I enjoyed interacting socially when I was out seeking amusement - I just don't find shopping in a any way amusing.

Re: Where is Hyndburn going?
 

I would love to give you a likey for that, but the last time I did so many rumours and conspiracy theories about us flooded the net that I wouldn't want AccyWeb's server to be crashed yet again!
:cool:

Re: Where is Hyndburn going?
 

Most of the time I find shopping a bad experience and have made it my life's ambition never to visit the likes of the Trafford Centre. I must confess that I was once tricked into visiting the Lowry 'Expensive Tat' Outlet but that was on the pretence of pre theatre drinks rather than actual shopping.

I do not enjoy wandering around any places that are crowded the likes of supermarkets, full of old people on a Saturday morning for some reason, are places I avoid like the plague. If I have to visit the supermarket, I go at 8am when it is quiet.

Re: Where is Hyndburn going?
 

I do not get that much joy out of shopping....I do it because I don't like online shopping, and we shop for my mum and for another old lady who lives close by and does not get out much
I do like going out and about to areas where there are a good variety of shops to browse....Though I often buy nothing.(so is that shopping?)
I also like taking pictures of people going about their daily doings.
Grocery shopping is no pleasure at all....Too many obstacles to negotiate in the supermarkets(the assistants fulfilling the orders for those who shop online leave the blasted trucks right in the middle of the aisles).....self service check out are a nuisance.
So MargaretR you are quite right shopping is no fun at all....And I might just give it up!:)

Re: Where is Hyndburn going?
 

Careful management of the flow of information given to them. Tell 'em everything that is good. Tell 'em nothing bad.

It's the strategy that achieved the absolutely hilarious 'Excellent' tag for the Council a few years ago. Soft soap the judges and stick 'em in the Dunkenhalgh for a couple of nights.

It works a treat. Does absolutely nothing for the citizens of the borough, but gives the officers a warm glow.

Re: Where is Hyndburn going?
 

Back in the dark ages, when Accrington was in black and white, the council was run by business people who had the attitude of working for the good of the town.

The modern councillor is a different breed altogether and is more concerned with getting one over on the other lot instead of putting the interests of the town first.
Creating jobs has always been important but just what have the Councillors done to attract new startup businesses into the town apart form wholesale approval for pound shops?

Re: Where is Hyndburn going?
 

Well, I wouldn't go that far ... you never know who, or what you might bump into at, say, your local Walmart.;)



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