Information about Clayton
 

My maternal great-grandmother owned a tripe shop at 158 Whalley Road in Clayton from approximately 1900 until 1949. I visited the area in 1978 just before it was leveled to make room for the new motorway.

My mother, who was raised by her grandmother, recently received an old photograph of the shop from a cousin who was going through his mother's memenos and photographs, etc. In the photograph, when you are facing the tripe shop, on the left is a shop with a sign that says, "Beasdale and Co" (and we think it says something about "leather").

My mother always told me that Long Row ran perpendicular to Whalley Road along the other side of the tripe shop, but now I am wondering.

Does anyone have any information about this? Thanks!

Re: Information about Clayton
 

Sorry can't help you with the enquiry about Bleasdales or the tripe shop,but the long row was Henry street if you look on Google there are only two houses there now. Before the motorway it went right up to High st,at the top of the hill. Alan Gillmartin may remember the tripe shop.

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I have a strong feeling (looking at Google map) the shop on the corner of Henry St with the three windows was a chemist and on the opposite corner was a sweet shop,at the corner of the next st (now gone)Well St was a sports shop called Freddy Camps where we bought all our football teams shirts,shorts and socks on a weekly payment.Across the road was the Load Of Mischief then a garage then the Star cinema and then a few shops to Clayton st, can't remember what they were think greengrocers.

Hope that helps.

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I have had an email off a friend who I asked if he could remember a tripe shop he could only think of a cooked meat shop on the same side as the Star,he could remember the corner sweet shop owned by George Hoyle he used to go to the Load with a jug for his beer. In between Well Street and Henry Street was the back street for Henry Street which was very wide and came right down to Whally Rd could the tripe shop have been on this corner,looking at the door numbers it looks like the bottom of Henry St would have been approx 148 and 150 which then could make 158 at the bottom of the back street.
If my friend comes up with anything I will let you know.

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this may have been prior to George Hoyle having the shop.
After all the original poster is talking about the time of 1900...and he also mentions his grandmother, so it might even have been before then That Bleasdales had the shop
I lived in Henry Street in the late 60's. I remember George Hoyles shop very well and Thornbers Chemist on the opposite corner of Henry St.

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What he is saying Margaret that he went to see the tripe shop in 1978 before it was knocked down and he thought it was at the corner of Henry St

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This is a shot taken from Mario maps, which shows Henry Street around 1890 ... was certainly a long row, so could have been nicknamed that :

Attachment 21159

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I think you are right. Grandma's tripe shop was definitely on a corner, but it was a narrow street or ally. If you look at the photo I posted, the end has been cut off, and there are no visible markings on the shop. Thanks! :)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by claytonx (Post 999485) I have had an email off a friend who I asked if he could remember a tripe shop he could only think of a cooked meat shop on the same side as the Star,he could remember the corner sweet shop owned by George Hoyle he used to go to the Load with a jug for his beer. In between Well Street and Henry Street was the back street for Henry Street which was very wide and came right down to Whally Rd could the tripe shop have been on this corner,looking at the door numbers it looks like the bottom of Henry St would have been approx 148 and 150 which then could make 158 at the bottom of the back street.

I think you are right. Grandma's tripe shop was definitely on a corner, but it was a narrow street or ally. If you look at the photo I posted, the end has been cut off, and there are no visible markings on the shop. Thanks! :)

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Yes, my maternal great-grandmother, Adelaide Knight, owned the tripe shop from approximately 1900 until 1949. Her husband was called William, I think.

I made this up for a newsgroup based around the FEB. It's from my mother's memory:

Knight's Tripe Shop
158 Whalley Road
Clayton-le-Moors, Lancs.

Items sold:


TRIPE:
Fatty Seam
Honeycomb (put vinegar in every hole, please)
Ladies Tripe (cow's uterous)
Elder (cow's udder)

COW'S HEELS
SHEEP TROTTERS
SHEEP'S BRAINS (boiled, delicious gravy)
PIG'S FEET (trotters)
BLACK PUDDING
POLONY (know it was a stuffed casing, but that's all.


There was an "eating place" in the back which consisted of a table and a bench with salt, pepper and malt vinegar available, but it was hardly ever used.

Great-Grandma did a booming business during Word War II, as meat was practically unavailable, and tripe made a good substitute.

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I know that, but he was also saying that way back (probably before it was George Hoyles) it was a tripe shop...or at least that is how I am reading it. He may have taken a brick from it because of what it had been to his family in the dim and distant past...before any of us were around, that's for sure.

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I don't know when George Hoyle took the shop...do you? He definitely had it when I lived in Henry St.

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No I don't

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[quote=katex;999495]This is a shot taken from Mario maps, which shows Henry Street around 1890 ... was certainly a long row, so could have been nicknamed that :

Thanks for the map. I'll pass it onto my sister. Very interesting.

In the 1970s, my mother made a trip to England, and while she was in the Accrington area, she found an artist who had drawn Long Row in Charcoal. She bought the drawing, and it's waiting for me in Pennsylvania when I can make the trip. I live in Baja, Mexico. Mother always told me that the shop was the building on the left as the drawing looked as if somebody stood in the middle of the road and drew the scene looking up. Maybe my sister can send me a photo of it.

But the map does show a half street or alley, so now I am perplexed! It really could be either - although I tend to think it was the back street - but the "Long Row" designation is confusing considering a previous poster mentionede that it was the name for Henry Street.

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As I said before it was the back street of Henry Street/Long row which went right up to High Street at the top of the hill. I think that would be where the tripe shop was on that corner with Whalley Rd. The menu looks good very healthy eating

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Quote:

Originally Posted by claytonx (Post 999518) As I said before it was the back street of Henry Street/Long row which went right up to High Street at the top of the hill. I think that would be where the tripe shop was on that corner with Whalley Rd. The menu looks good very healthy eating

My sister just sent me a photo of the charcoal drawing. My mother always said that it is "Long Row" and Grandma's shop is on the left. It looks more like the back street of Henry Street. What do you think?

Back of Grandma's Shop.jpg - 4shared.com - photo sharing - download image

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As n aside, i have n owd mate,thats a "Knight" from Clayton Le Moors, Lives oer accy now, wouldn't be any relation?

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One glance and you can tell its the back street and you can see it going right up,good picture. The main street would be twice as wide.

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Does it seem as you remembered it.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 999525) As n aside, i have n owd mate,thats a "Knight" from Clayton Le Moors, Lives oer accy now, wouldn't be any relation?

Gosh, I wish I could say, "Yes", but I honestly don't have a clue. It's a fairly common name, I think. You should ask you friend about William and Adelaide Knight who owned and operated a tripe shop at 158 Whalley Road in Clayton. I don't think William was too involved with the business, though.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by claytonx (Post 999530) Does it seem as you remembered it?

Yes, this is how I picture the area when I visited in 1978. I went into the door on the side, and that's where I got the brick from. My sister and I do think now that the shop was on the corner of Whalley Road and the back street to Henry. My mother may have gotten confused about "Long Row", but it remains somewhat puzzling.

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I like tripe and trotters and black pudding but could never stand polony. Always remember it as having a red casing.

Gourmet Britain - Encyclopedia - Polony

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Originally Posted by susie123 (Post 999536) I like tripe and trotters and black pudding but could never stand polony. Always remember it as having a red casing.

Thanks for the link. I like wurst and have no idea what polony tasted like. The secret must be in the spices because many types of sausage are made from a combination of beef and pork. The Pennsylvania Dutch have their own wurst including bood sausage and souse which is also called "head cheese" There's also the dark, very spicy "Lebanon Bologna".

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My 1951 Barrett's Directory shows Mrs E Howard, a tripe dealer at 158 Whalley Rd, next door at 158 is a chip shop.Between Henry St & Well St are 7 dwellings/shops. G Hoyle is at 150. The name Long Row probably came about when it was being built - this was common. There's one in Sabden. Seven doesn't seem all that long but it would cost more t build than the usual four. At 144, next door to Thornber's chemists was J Bleasdale, a labourer.

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Would make more sense if the number was 156 to be on the corner. Compare up-to-date map with old.

Attachment 21164

Attachment 21165 This on a join unfortunately. :)

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Did you get this right, Bob ?
Or did they share 158 ?

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Could that row on Whalley rd have been re numbered after building the Motorway,if you look at the other end of that row, corner of Hill St, a house has been knocked down otherwise the numbers would be correct.

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Bob, does it give F Camp sports shop at 160

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Dobson (Post 999557) My 1951 Barrett's Directory shows Mrs E Howard, a tripe dealer at 158 Whalley Rd, next door at 158 is a chip shop.Between Henry St & Well St are 7 dwellings/shops. G Hoyle is at 150. The name Long Row probably came about when it was being built - this was common. There's one in Sabden. Seven doesn't seem all that long but it would cost more t build than the usual four. At 144, next door to Thornber's chemists was J Bleasdale, a labourer.

My mother always claimed that there was a chip shop next door, so we were puzzled at "Bleasdale". I'll have to find out about Mrs. E. Howard.

So the photo I posted was not 158 Whalley Rd?

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Ah! my grandma only had the tripe shop until 1949. Then she became ill, sold the business and moved in with us on Moss Hall Road. I think she died in 1952. So that explains the E. Howard who must have bought her shop.

We emigrated to Pennsylvania, USA, in June, 1954.

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I think it was.

I am not too convinced that it was on a corner ... the photograph only makes it appear so, due to it being clipped. Could be 158 was split into two shops. ?? Unless Bob made a typing error. :confused:

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Quote:

Originally Posted by katex (Post 999593) I think it was.

It was definitely on a corner. I know that much from visiting the area in 1978. My mother's cousin with whom she was very close while growing up drove me to #158 just before it was torn down. I went in the side door on the back street and dislodged a brick that I took back to America.

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Mack, I should look once again at post 26, I think a lot of blockers have been thrown in your path since then.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by claytonx (Post 999599) Mack, I should look once again at post 26, I think a lot of blockers have been thrown in your path since then.

Maybe I'm missing something, but post # 26 is my post, and I was talking about the charcoal drawing. The drawing is how I remember it when I visited in 1978.

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My Mum was born in 1930 and grew up round there, I'll ask her tomorrow when I see her what she can remember of the area and all the shops.

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You and your sister agree in that post that the shop was at the bottom of Henry St back street and Whalley Road.What more are you looking for.

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What is puzzling me most about Mack's 'photo is the mill chimney.

Can't find any evidence of a mill behind the Henry Street area ... just quarries ? Unless quarries had a chimney ?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by claytonx (Post 999651) You and your sister agree in that post that the shop was at the bottom of Henry St back street and Whalley Road.What more are you looking for.

Whether or not the photograph I posted is a photo of Grandma's shop. My sister and I have come to the conclusion that it is probably not because according to family recollections, there was a chip shop next door - confirmed by Bob Dobson - and the photo shows "Bleasdale's" next to the house that is supposed to be Grandma's shop. Memories fade and the reality becomes distorted. The photo has been in the family archives for almost one-hundred years as being the tripe shop. It probably is not.

Evidence points in that direction, but nothing is definite unless we can get first-hand information.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by katex (Post 999656) What is puzzling me most about Mack's 'photo is the mill chimney.

Interesting observation. I am thinking that the photo was taken in front of # 144 Whalley Road. In the 1890 map that was posted, there is a factory in that area called, "Guttenberg Works (Printing)", so I am surmising that the mill chimney might belong to the company. Just a thought.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by entwisi (Post 999622) My Mum was born in 1930 and grew up round there, I'll ask her tomorrow when I see her what she can remember of the area and all the shops.

Thanks, much appreciated. Any input is worthwhile; it's been a long time, and as I said in an earlier message, memories fade, and reality becomes distorted.

Thanks for sharing your Flickr photos, since you showed me yours, I'll show you mine:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/90039878@N00/

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That shop on the right of the photo is probably not on the corner. It has its chimney on the right and if it were the end of the row this would be on the end wall of the house which is unlikely. Also it looks as if the masonry continues to the right beyond the downpipe.

It's most likely as you say that someone took a picture at the walking day, possibly with your mother in it, and it's not your shop.

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Actually Mack, Bob said that J Bleasdale a labourer was at 144, not necessarily Bleasdale's shop. And that was in 1951. If the numbers haven't changed, according to Google Streetview, no 144 is next to a shop which is on the bottom rh corner of Henry Street. This would presumable have been Thornbers.

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If you look at Kate's map in post 30 there is a long narrow building on the lh bottom corner of Back Henry Street. This has a back extension on the left and probably a yard on the right. Going up the back street there is then a building on the left after the yard of the building on the corner. This ties in with the drawing of the back street which shows probably a yard wall then a small building, on the bottom left of the picture.

This suggests that the tripe shop was on the bottom lh corner of the back street.

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I had a Great-Auntie Lizzie (marrried to Nicholas Croston I think) who lived up Henry Street and can remember going to visit her there often as a little girl when mum took the washing to be done at the Launderette on the other side of Whalley Road, which was run by another of my Gt aunts (Lucy) for a while. Thornbers chemists I remember but not the other shops - will try asking my mum if she remembers the tripe shop or any of the others.

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Presume you may have already looked at the census for 1911.
Think this is your family ... obviously, didn't live over the shop ?

Has Adelaide down as a Housewife.

Attachment 21238

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Possibly before they had the tripe shop - Mack only said "approximately" 1900 in post 1. Interesting that William Knight is a US resident and his granddaughter and family are now in USA.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by katex (Post 999677) Presume you may have already looked at the census for 1911.

No, I had not looked at the census; I am ignorant of these things! :)

I'm a bit confused and will have to confir with my sister. I had no idea that Adelaide's husband, William, came to the US. Now we had an "Uncle Will" on Adelaide's side who emigrated to Fall River, MA - or that's the way the family history went. Florence was my mother's mother who died in Clayton around 1926 from a fall down the steps. My mother was five years old. Elsie was my aunt (or great aunt) who married a chemist, and they lived in Prestwich near Manchester. Her husband, Uncle Jack Roberts, was the chief chemist at Strangeways Prison. Their daughter was Christine who lived in Clitheroe and who I mentioned in one of my earlier posts. I think there's a link between the one who came to Fall River, MA and William Clifford Birtwell who you can read about in Famous Accringtonians. Cousin Clifford invented the first artifical heart. I may have posted under the nick, Steerforth, but I can't resurrect that account for some reason. I thought Grandpa Knight (Adelaide's husband) died in the 1920s in Clayton. I'll check on it.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by susie123 (Post 999668) Actually Mack, Bob said that J Bleasdale a labourer was at 144, not necessarily Bleasdale's shop. And that was in 1951. If the numbers haven't changed, according to Google Streetview, no 144 is next to a shop which is on the bottom rh corner of Henry Street. This would presumable have been Thornbers.

It makes more sense, though, as my mother always claimed there was a chip shop next door. The photo shows "Bleasdale's". Also, the comment about the factory stack in the background. There was nothing in the back of # 158 as far as I know, but there was a factory behind # 144.

I'm only grabbling handfuls of air, of course, and I defer to your knowledge.

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I agree, Sue, don't think 144 was ever a shop. Just a house.

No, he CAME FROM the U.S.... shows that he was born there.

These are the residents of both 156/158 in 1911. The Knights could possibly have rented out the accommodation over the shop and still be living at 48, Whalley Road (not there now).

Interesting.

Attachment 21272

Attachment 21273

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Think you meant Burnley Road, Kate...

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Thanks ... sure did .... :D

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Quote:

Originally Posted by katex (Post 999732) I agree, Sue, don't think 144 was ever a shop. Just a house.

My sister tells me that Great Grandma Knight (ne Holden) had a brother William who was called "Will", and she married William Knight (Bill) who was not born in the U.S. nor did he ever travel there. It was Uncle Will who emigrated to Fall River, MA., but I think he eventually came back to Clayton. Have to check further.

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I believe Uncle Will (he would have been a "Holden") emigrated to the U.S. in the late 1800s or early 1900s, but he came back to Clayton. He may have been living there in 1911 when the census was taken; I don't know when Grandma married William Knight, but he was from the Clayton area and never traveled to the U.S. I wonder if the census record is slightly confused.

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Thought could have been a missing entry there myself, Mack, however, look at this 1881 census ... shows William Henry Knight again as being born in America, as does his sister Ann Knight. Mary Ann was born in Clayton.

John Knight born in Warrington: Ellen Knight in Preston.

Looks like your Great Great Grandparents did at one time spend some time in America.

Attachment 21306

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Quote:

Originally Posted by katex (Post 999801) Thought could have been a missing entry there myself, Mack, however, look at this 1881 census ... shows William Henry Knight again as being born in America, as does his sister Ann Knight. Mary Ann was born in Clayton.

In 65 + years of life, nobody has ever mentioned to me that Grandpa Knight was born in the U.S. I'm trying to get my sister's attention. It ought to be something my mother would remember, but we never know these days. Thanks!

I'm still curious about "Bleasdale's" in the photo. Somebody posted that J. Beasdale was a laboror who lived at # 144 Whalley Road, so the photo might not picture # 144 as I previously thought, but there doesn't seem to be any record of a "Bleasdale" next to # 158, so I'm still wondering about the houses in the photo. There's the issue of the factory chimney, too. My mother went to dinner at my sister's today and said that is a photo of her - the far left child. Not certain we can put all our trust in that pronouncement.

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Am I correct that we have not seen this photo? Posting one would be helpful.
Are we looking for Knights & or otjher names?
The Bleasdale labourer at 144 lived there in 1951. It may have been his parents who had the shop a few doors along in earlier years, or the family had given up the shop in some way and moved a few doors along. In 1951 there was a Robert Bleasdale at 85 Blackburn Rd. There were no Knights listed. James Howard was a grocer at 119-121 Barnes St and a George , firewood dealer at 75 Barnes St
Access to some earlier directories would be helpful

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Bob, look at the link in post number 4.

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The building in your photo is definitely not no 144 Whalley Road.

The shops in the photo have a very distinctive arrangement of windows in the upper storey. I have just followed Whalley Road Clayton on Streetview from its beginning at the Grehound pub to the motorway bridge and beyond and there are no buildings existing today with that arrangement of windows. So they must either have been among the ones demolished to make way for the motorway or it is not Whalley Road.

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Well I have cracked the location of the shops in your photo and it's nowhere near 158 or 144 Whalley Road.

A free search of directories on Ancestry turns up the entry Bleasdale and Co, 233 Whalley Road Clayton. Don't know the type of business or the year, think you have to pay for that sort of information. The entry in question is towards the bottom of the first page of search results.

Bleasdale - U.K., City and County Directories, 1600s-1900s - Ancestry.co.uk

Anyway Streetview of that area takes me to the Volunteer pub, further out towards Harwood than we were looking. The address of the Volunteer is 229 Whalley Road, next door is a house, then a pair of houses with exactly the same upstairs window arrangement as in Mack's photo, and the bottom facade has been rebuilt, indicating that there were once shop frontages. 233 would have been Bleasdale's, the shop on the left.

So the photo was of the opposite side of the road to the tripe shop we have been looking for, and much further out of Clayton.

I was wrong about one thing - the shop on the right is on a corner, of sorts - the next thing after it is the canal!

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Congrats to Susie.

I don't know if it's relevant but there were other houses between the Volunteers and the Albion. You can see where they where if you look over the Albion car park to the left hand side

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Actually you're right, the canal is on the other side of the Albion. I just assumed it was in the gap before the Albion, looking at the map. You can I've never lived in Clayton!

So the shop on the right was probably joined on to another building on the right as I first assumed, and not at the end of a row.

All this doesn't alter the fact that we have identified the location of Bleasdale's shop.

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Thanks Bob, you can't keep a good researcher down!

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Phew .... well done, Sue !!. Saved me a trip to the library.

I didn't go far enough down on street view either.

Can't believe didn't recognise those windows ... have been watching those alterations to houses for ages (is taking ages).

The chimney was probably from Victoria Mill which was behind there, and old maps show that there was more buildings 'on the end'.

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Thanks Kate - I was going to investigate the chimney as well, but got so chuffed with finding the shop I forgot to go any further!

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Trying to save the 1890 map, Sue .... but it is not playing with me at the moment.. :(

Bet Mack is well chuffed with the findings, although somebody thought to give him Red Karma.. we do welcome new members don't we. :rolleyes:

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I noticed that, thought it was rather pathetic,:rolleyes: But lifes full of sad gets.:rolleyes:

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Yep, the 1910 map shows Victoria Mill behind, on the other side of the canal. On the 1845 map there was a chemical works and flour mill in the same place.

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What would be the reason for that.

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I would say it's something to do with post number 5. Seems like the thread was moved and Mack did not like it so voiced his opinion and someone then gave him red k. Just my thoughts.

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I thought the same, but nowt nasty was said, so its like i said, a sad get.:rolleyes:

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Quite agree Cashy, happened to me more than once.

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I agree, but it did start out as a general enquiry about Clayton and then did turn later to 'ancestors'. Sure Mack didn't mind it being moved at this stage.

Got the image, Sue :

Attachment 21308

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The building you looking at was indeed two shops the end one 1950 would have been Greens Ice Cream and sweet shop,later turned into an off licence,the small wall attached was a building about 8ft high with a sloping slate roof no doors on the road side,the doors were in the Albion yard. May have been stables.
I can't remember what the shop next to Greens was always seamed to be empty possibly someone living at the back of the shop.

Just an add on Mr Green used to push a icecream cart around Clayton at the weekend or warm days,very good home made icecream.

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Well done Kate, you can see the pair of shops quite clearly on that with a long building sticking out on the RHS and then a gap before the Albion.

And Enfield Mill is right behind, on the same side of the canal, even closer than the Victoria Mill.

BTW where do you get these map images from?

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From Mario maps ... it will tell you how to save images, once you have cracked their navigation.

MARIO Maps and Related Information Online

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Thought so... I try to steer clear of that site - never yet been able to find my way around it! You're obviously more practised than me!

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Kate how old is that map,there are tram lines shown down the middle of the road.

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It's 1890, Roy.

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My Dad used to say how he came from Accrington on the tram courting my Mother on Mercer St Clayton which is below the canal. The trams stopped at the con club.

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Yes, you can clearly see that on the map.

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Accrington Library have a photo of a tram at the terminus. The town boundary ran close by this point. One of their photos shows the bounday line drawn in. It was probably taken in 1928 when Accrington was seeking to annexe Clayton into the borough.

The flour mill referred to was owned by Appleby. I think it was caled The Canal Mills Company

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Think you're looking at the wrong block, Sue, the Albion wasn't there then, and the P.H. is The Volunteers.

Have marked:

Attachment 21311

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Bob,did you find out the names of the other occpants of the shops between Well St and Henry St.

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Girls,girls,girls,you're getting confused the Vol,house two shops back on to the Enfield Mill.The Albion pub two shops are the last before you go over the bridge and back on to the canal.

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No sorry, the PH marked on the map is the Albion with a couple of buildings, no longer there, before the canal. Go back up towards Accy a bit, the next few buildings are what we are ralking about including the symmetrical pair of shops and the Volunteer on the RH corner of the block on the corner of what is now Corn Mill Yard. The buildings you mean Kate would have been opposite the Con Club.

Have a look on Streetview, it's easy to sort it out. And the Volunteeer is no 229 so the LH shop has to be 233 as in the directory.

Have just spent an hour or so on Mario, interesting to see on the 1890 map that Whalley Road Clayton from the Greyhound down to the canal is actually called Napoleon Street and after the canal it becomes Enfield Street. But the building next to the canal is actually marked as Whalley Road Wharf!

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I stand corrected ... have just overlapped with modern map.

Apologies.

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Yes Roy you and I are right. The two shops in the photo are between the Vol and the Albion.

Kate if the pub you marked is the Vol, there is no room for the Albion before the canal.

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No probs Kate, easy to do. As I said Streetview is easiest to sort it out.

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Or my memory, still works when pushed.
Sue,
Look at street view go pass the two shops then spin the camara around and you can see the shape of the small building which was attached to the shops

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But we can't see your memory...

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I like that made me laugh out loud was not expected.

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Was going to add probably just as well we can't but thought I might be in for a virtual slap on the wrist.

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Wrist's don't come into it across my knee.