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panther 02-07-2007 09:18

saving energy costs on the dead!!!!!!!!
 
Anger At Plan To Store Bodies At Crematorium (from Lancashire Telegraph)



this is wrong, very wrong.!!!:mad:

couldnt believe what i was reading:(

WillowTheWhisp 02-07-2007 09:36

Re: saving energy costs on the dead!!!!!!!!
 
A lot of people think that the cremation actually takes place when the coffin goes through the curtain but it doesn't and never has. It is usually done sometime later although in most cases not very much later.

At crematoriums (crematoria?) where there are 3 or 4 funerals that day I can't see the problem with not lighting the furnace until after the last funeral has taken place. They are not actually suggesting putting all the coffins in together. Just having one time of the day when the furnace is lit and then each one will have its own cremation in succession.

I can't see anything wrong with the idea myself and it doesn't sound a whole lot different to what happens already apart from it saving on the fuel for getting the furnaces heated up.

I don't like the idea of holding any and carrying them forward to the next day though. I still think they should take place on the same day as the actual ceremony.

If they were going to suggest cremating people en masse then I would agree that is totally unacceptable and I would be horrified at the idea.

cashman 02-07-2007 10:10

Re: saving energy costs on the dead!!!!!!!!
 
once of a day they used to cremate the days lot at night,at the same time, at least some did, me brother was sandblasting one many years ago and was actually asked if he wanted to watch, he declined,to me summat like that is more disrespectful.

WillowTheWhisp 02-07-2007 12:25

Re: saving energy costs on the dead!!!!!!!!
 
So it's not a radical new idea at all?

cashman 02-07-2007 12:32

Re: saving energy costs on the dead!!!!!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp (Post 443197)
So it's not a radical new idea at all?

dont think so willow,think it would depend on which area/ council what the script is, as i said this was many (over30) years ago, n at the time i assumed they all did it? now older i think probably not,point is its not really radical or new to me.;)

WillowTheWhisp 02-07-2007 12:36

Re: saving energy costs on the dead!!!!!!!!
 
I used to work with the daughter of an undertaker and she told me that they did the actual cremating later after all the mourners were long gone. It was normal. The coffin just went through the curtain and stayed at the other side. When I was little I thought the conveyor belt led straight through to the furnace but she explained that the furnace isn't there. The coffin is lifted off and carried to the furnace.

cashman 02-07-2007 12:36

Re: saving energy costs on the dead!!!!!!!!
 
the thing that puzzeled me then. and still does, if thats the case,HOW do you know you got yer loved ones ashes?:(

cashman 02-07-2007 12:38

Re: saving energy costs on the dead!!!!!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp (Post 443201)
I used to work with the daughter of an undertaker and she told me that they did the actual cremating later after all the mourners were long gone. It was normal. The coffin just went through the curtain and stayed at the other side. When I was little I thought the conveyor belt led straight through to the furnace but she explained that the furnace isn't there. The coffin is lifted off and carried to the furnace.

as theres services all day, then it begins to make sense.

SPUGGIE J 02-07-2007 12:46

Re: saving energy costs on the dead!!!!!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 443202)
the thing that puzzeled me then. and still does, if thats the case,HOW do you know you got yer loved ones ashes?:(


Thats a good point and I wonder if the council or the crematorium can give a truthful answer to it. Its an out and out disgrace and very disrespectful to the deceased and their family and friends. :mad:

cashman 02-07-2007 12:54

Re: saving energy costs on the dead!!!!!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SPUGGIE J (Post 443214)
Thats a good point and I wonder if the council or the crematorium can give a truthful answer to it. Its an out and out disgrace and very disrespectful to the deceased and their family and friends. :mad:

with what i was told spug, i doubt that very much.:(

WillowTheWhisp 02-07-2007 13:05

Re: saving energy costs on the dead!!!!!!!!
 
Don't they do them one after the other? They may call it 'all at once' but it's not like the bodies all go in together. A bit like me telling the kids not to eat a bag of sweets all at once. I don't mean putting them all in their mouth at once, but in rapid succession.

It's a bit of a morbid subject but the ashes you get back aren't all ashes. They have to grind up the bones as they don't reduce to ash.

cashman 02-07-2007 13:07

Re: saving energy costs on the dead!!!!!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp (Post 443226)
Don't they do them one after the other? They may call it 'all at once' but it's not like the bodies all go in together. A bit like me telling the kids not to eat a bag of sweets all at once. I don't mean putting them all in their mouth at once, but in rapid succession.

It's a bit of a morbid subject but the ashes you get back aren't all ashes. They have to grind up the bones as they don't reduce to ash.

cant say for all but some definatly do em all at once.

WillowTheWhisp 02-07-2007 13:16

Re: saving energy costs on the dead!!!!!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 443228)
cant say for all but some definatly do em all at once.

That's not nice. You could have Great Auntie Nellie in a jar on the mantlepiece and it's not really her at all! :eek:

MargaretR 02-07-2007 13:21

Re: saving energy costs on the dead!!!!!!!!
 
I dont think there is much point asking for the ashes - suspect you just get a shovelful off the pile -behind that curtain is an 'industrial process of hygenic body disposal' -it is not designed for grieving relatives to view, and would probably upset them if they did. Those crematoria workers work with death every day, an unpleasant job, and they need not to be sentimental about it in order to cope with doing it.

cashman 02-07-2007 13:43

Re: saving energy costs on the dead!!!!!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp (Post 443235)
That's not nice. You could have Great Auntie Nellie in a jar on the mantlepiece and it's not really her at all! :eek:

its not really a nice subject, thats why i never dug any further with the info i got years ago. its a bad time anyway for anyone concerned so its probably better knowing nowt?

steeljack 02-07-2007 16:44

Re: saving energy costs on the dead!!!!!!!!
 
seem to remember there was a bit of a 'to-do' in the Observer a few years back when someone tried to find out what happened to all the precious metals recovered from the Cremains , seems many folks were concerned about the wedding rings which thier loved ones were wearing at time of comittal , (accusations of undertakers and crematoria operators robbing the dead etc.) I think a council spokesperson at the time said that metals recovered were collected and 'weighed -in' and the proceeds went towards the operating costs of the building.

;) ;)

cashman 02-07-2007 16:47

Re: saving energy costs on the dead!!!!!!!!
 
they would have to say that really steeljack, dont look good if they said,some of our staff are nicking them.;)

WillowTheWhisp 02-07-2007 16:52

Re: saving energy costs on the dead!!!!!!!!
 
When my loved ones were cremated the rings etc were given to me before hand by the funeral director. I suppose they wouldn't be able to do that with some things like gold teeth though.

From my own point of view I'm not really all that stressed about what happens to the physical remains because the person themselves is no longer there. It did take me a fair while to decide what to do with my late husband's ashes though.

steeljack 02-07-2007 17:30

Re: saving energy costs on the dead!!!!!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp (Post 443341)
When my loved ones were cremated the rings etc were given to me before hand by the funeral director. .

Yep I suppose that is what maybe should happen , but a lot of people believe that because their spouse (mostly wives I think) wore their wedding ring for 30/40/50 years and never removed it , it should stay with the body as a sign of everlasting love
:)

WillowTheWhisp 02-07-2007 17:32

Re: saving energy costs on the dead!!!!!!!!
 
I think I would probably have thought that too if they'd been buried but when you think about it, it's silly really isn't it.

steeljack 02-07-2007 17:35

Re: saving energy costs on the dead!!!!!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp (Post 443350)
but when you think about it, it's silly really isn't it.

Willow, no way am I going to touch that , ;) ;)

garinda 02-07-2007 17:42

Re: saving energy costs on the dead!!!!!!!!
 
It wouldn't bother me at all.

They can cremate me on a bonfire, if I happen to pop off in early November.:)

Margaret Pilkington 02-07-2007 17:47

Re: saving energy costs on the dead!!!!!!!!
 
Jewellery was returned to us by the undertaker before my Mother-in-law was cremated.......so I guess the only bits of precious metal would be from gold teeth.

Margaret Pilkington 02-07-2007 17:55

Re: saving energy costs on the dead!!!!!!!!
 
I think it makes sense to make the best use of resources....and I certainly wouldn't mind being kept for a day or so if the cremation was more economic that way....and as for the ashes.....well, I think that is a symbolic thing.
When we got my Dad's ashes back I didn't for one minute think that they were just his cremated remains.......I always kind of thought that they were the cremated remains of those cremated on that day......the ashes were treated lovingly and they meant something to us. They were scattered lovingly at a place that was special to him......though we also had a laugh and some joviality.
To the dead, it really doesn't matter.....because they have moved on.
It only really matters to those who are left behind.

garinda 02-07-2007 18:03

Re: saving energy costs on the dead!!!!!!!!
 
I'd never dream of putting the oven on, for just one jacket spud.:D

Margaret Pilkington 02-07-2007 18:10

Re: saving energy costs on the dead!!!!!!!!
 
Exactly Garinda.....you cook a casserole at the same time don't you?
So why do we all get our drawers in a knot about a sensible use of resources?
Surely we can use the argument of 'Global Warming' too....after all it seems to be used in everything else.

I think it is all about what we do for our loved ones while they are here...... not about how we treat them when they are gone.
I want the flowers while Iam alive.....not when I'm dead and can't see them anymore.

garinda 02-07-2007 18:16

Re: saving energy costs on the dead!!!!!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 443376)

I think it is all about what we do for our loved ones while they are here...... not about how we treat them when they are gone.
I want the flowers while Iam alive.....not when I'm dead and can't see them anymore.


Happily, my family think that way too. We don't have graves, or memorial stones, just happy memories.

Churchyards may bring comfort, and peace, to some, but not for us. Life's for the living.


:daisy::daisy::daisy: Sorry Margaret, that's all they had at the smiley garage.:D

Margaret Pilkington 02-07-2007 18:21

Re: saving energy costs on the dead!!!!!!!!
 
They are lovely Garinda....and it doesn't matter where the flowers come from (well, as long as they were not stolen from a grave or a park)....it is the thought that counts.

Ma will be 80 later this year and so she is a bit pre-occupied with thoughts of meeting her maker. She has left very strict instructions about what is to happen to her. No Cremation until at least 5 days after she has shuffled off the mortal coil...no obituary notices - she reckons that the people who will be most welcome at her send off will be those close enough to know that she 'wasn't well'........no flowers or eulogies. She tells me that if I don't follow her orders she will come back and haunt me :)

Margaret Pilkington 02-07-2007 18:24

Re: saving energy costs on the dead!!!!!!!!
 
Garinda.....Church Yards and headstones are for the living....they are there so that they can go and feel some link with the person who has died.
If only these people realised that the closest link you have with a loved one once they have died, is in your heart.
While ever you remember them their spirit lives on...in you.

garinda 02-07-2007 18:34

Re: saving energy costs on the dead!!!!!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 443386)
Garinda.....Church Yards and headstones are for the living....they are there so that they can go and feel some link with the person who has died.
If only these people realised that the closest link you have with a loved one once they have died, is in your heart.
While ever you remember them their spirit lives on...in you.

I know what you mean, but without going into details, we know someone who needs to go to the churchyard daily, at the expense of actually getting on with their, and their family's, life in the here and now. Which I think is sad.

cashman 02-07-2007 18:40

Re: saving energy costs on the dead!!!!!!!!
 
well ive moved on since my loss, still go up the graveyard occasionally,(last week) to renew flowers n clean up a bit, also to have a natter, some may think i'm knocked but stuff em,its my way of coping.

garinda 02-07-2007 18:52

Re: saving energy costs on the dead!!!!!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 443413)
well ive moved on since my loss, still go up the graveyard occasionally,(last week) to renew flowers n clean up a bit, also to have a natter, some may think i'm knocked but stuff em,its my way of coping.

I agree Cashy. It's whatever is right for each and every person, and getting peace and comfort wherever you happen to find it.:)

lindsay ormerod 02-07-2007 18:56

Re: saving energy costs on the dead!!!!!!!!
 
Once you have been cremated the remains go into a "Cremulator" ; it basically reduces whats left to powdery ash, and sieves all the bigger bits, like hip replacements,metal plates etc. Only know that cos I once fancied undertaking as a career.

cashman 02-07-2007 19:02

Re: saving energy costs on the dead!!!!!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lindsay ormerod (Post 443431)
Once you have been cremated the remains go into a "Cremulator" ; it basically reduces whats left to powdery ash, and sieves all the bigger bits, like hip replacements,metal plates etc. Only know that cos I once fancied undertaking as a career.

now yer begining to scare me lindsay.:D

Margaret Pilkington 02-07-2007 19:06

Re: saving energy costs on the dead!!!!!!!!
 
Yes, Cashy.....if going to the graveyard gets you through......and gives you some focus then so be it. It is what is right for you.

WillowTheWhisp 02-07-2007 19:09

Re: saving energy costs on the dead!!!!!!!!
 
Cremulator! That was the word I was trying to think of. Thanks Lindsay. :)

I agree with Margaret and Rindy on this - make the most of your loved ones whilst they are here and cherish the memories.
:)

garinda 02-07-2007 19:13

Re: saving energy costs on the dead!!!!!!!!
 
Since I've just been told I'll be going through a cremulator, I might make myself useful after my passing, and tell my neighbour she can put me in the pot holes, in our unadopted, unmade road.:D

lindsay ormerod 02-07-2007 19:13

Re: saving energy costs on the dead!!!!!!!!
 
No probs; I was quite serious about it as a career; but it's really expensive to get into; you have to pay for the exams yourself and then find a funeral director willing to take you on as work experience to do the "practical" side of it. Costs a fortune and not many funeral directors willing to let you in as a novice !

Margaret Pilkington 02-07-2007 19:16

Re: saving energy costs on the dead!!!!!!!!
 
You know Lindsay, Ithought after I had given up on nursing, I would have liked to do something along those lines. Too old now though.

lindsay ormerod 02-07-2007 19:23

Re: saving energy costs on the dead!!!!!!!!
 
It was before I had my daughter; not sure if I could do it now,something very strange happens when you have a child of your own and things that didn't bother you before upset you ! Don't think I could cope with children's funerals.

Margaret Pilkington 02-07-2007 19:26

Re: saving energy costs on the dead!!!!!!!!
 
Well, during my time at QPH as it was then i was instrumental in the sensitive arrangements for babies that were lost before the age of viability. I maintained the book of remembrance and provided cherished mementoes of the babies(footprints, handprints and Blessing Cards) I found it very humbling but very rewarding.

Margaret Pilkington 02-07-2007 19:27

Re: saving energy costs on the dead!!!!!!!!
 
I do agree though that having children of your own in some way softens your heart, but I think it is good to be able to empathise with the bereaved.
It isn't something that everyone can do.

panther 03-07-2007 06:11

Re: saving energy costs on the dead!!!!!!!!
 
i seen it on telly once and all the tales that people say are rubbish, you dont get burned at once in the same furness, it will only carry one!! they probably have a few burning together but they dont shove ya all in one oven!!!
plus the rumour that goes around saying that they use your coffin again is also a lie, they burn the lot!.....
at first it put me off getting cremated, but in the long run, its cheaper and i'd rather have me family go on holiday then spend on a funeral, your dead it doesnt matter how they get rid, you cant feel it!:D

lettie 03-07-2007 07:46

Re: saving energy costs on the dead!!!!!!!!
 
I have absolutely no objection to this at all. I like to remember my relatives as they were when they were alive and I very rarely think of their funerals. I don't care what's done with me when I'm dead and if I have to wait to go through the furnace then I won't know about it.

I do have one question though........ Will the savings that are being made be passed on to the consumer???:cool:

WillowTheWhisp 03-07-2007 08:17

Re: saving energy costs on the dead!!!!!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by panther (Post 443682)
i seen it on telly once and all the tales that people say are rubbish, you dont get burned at once in the same furness, it will only carry one!! they probably have a few burning together but they dont shove ya all in one oven!!!


Maybe some places have smaller one person ovens and some places have bigger ones? Cashman seemed to be talking about first hand knowledge.


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