How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

Whilst visiting with a neighbour today, several people came round to have a game of chess with her son (who's 40) and the conversation got around to how the Government is trying to stop the long term sick claiming certain benefits. As most of the visitors & her son are alchohol dependent I found it infuriating that they claim they can't be forced into any type of work. I asked them why this was so and how they could be so sure they wouldn't have their benefits stopped/reduced. Their response was unbelievable. All of them said when required to see the doctor at their 3 yearly check up to see if they are fit to return to work, they would claim they could do any job as long as they had a drink. According to them, Health & Safety regulations would be breached and that's how they get to stay on benefits. Apparently benefits cannot be reduced and if the Government does try to stop their benefits they have the right of appeal. Most of these people haven't worked since leaving school 25 + years ago, nor do they have any intention of doing so. I'm absolutely livid. How can these scroungers and shirkers get away with it?
:s_fmad:

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

The answer is quite simple,because they are on incapacity benefit they are not classed as unemployed or indeed as job seekers.
This gives the impression that the jobless is less than it is.In fact the total of people on incapacity more or less equals the drop in unemployment - But what the hell it looks good to the numptys that work and balances the books.Not a political party thing more the civil service who's job it is to make the powers that be look like the powers that be.
The bottom line is all the manufacturing base has now gone overseas to pay for pensions for private investors like me and sod the rest.

I do agree these people should be made to work but what can they do.


At least they are keeping the pubs going.:bleedht::signbeer::drink:

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

The problem is though that sometimes the govenment wants to take people of the list and usually end up targeting those least able to work. A friend of mine is in a wheel chair and they had him down as being able to do any kind of work despite his chair. When he asked how he was to get around at work or even get there they reckoned it was not there problem. Where they get these ideas from beats me because despite very good bus services he has to either get a taxi or if on a bus have a chaparone thus in his eyes taking away his independance.

As it stands there is a points system for these people and the interviews are done by an independently appointed "lacky" who has to get as many of the benifit as possible. Ok there is a right of appeal but once that dreaded letter arrives they stop all the incapacity payments and you have to apply for others ie job seekers income based or if over 60 and yes they do take people of the benefit at that age, pension credits. So some poor sod can be without any money for weeks.

There are those that play the system and always will and will sit back and enjoy the fruits of the working populations efforts. Now I know that there is a points system for the jobcentre staff witch low and behold targets for normal unemployed people. This system gives one point if someone is signs of and gets a job within 6 months but 10 points for over 6 months. The result being little or no help if unemployed less than 6 months but shed loads if out of work more than 6 months. Sadley though there will be some that after 6 months will find other ways to keep benifits coming in ie incapacity.

Right a guy has 3 kids and a wife who does not work and lives in a council house works as a labourer for a local building firm but looses his job. He signs on and gets cash for himself his wife and the kids and as rent and most of his council tax and water is paid he is close the same level of income as when working with the little benefits he claims. After 6 months of getting no were job wise he plays the system for incapacity and gets more money and is better of than being employed. The wife who was not working finds a nice cash in hand job for extra cash. The outcome is that some that are using/abusing the welfare system are better off than someone putting in an honest days graft.

To the point about alcoholism to me that is self inflicted so why the hell should I as a tax payer have to whatch them getting legless on cheap booze payed for by my taxes?

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

So what should we do with them?
Lock them up in institutions until they are cured?
They should not be given extra money for booze as people have stated happens before.

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

Yes if that is what is required though it would be a bigger burdon on the tax payer. Its an easy way to cash for some is drink along with the other scurge of drugs.

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

Maybe one idea would be to insist anyone claiming to be an Alchoholic/Drug User be sent to a prison type environment where they are supplied with 2 basic meals per day and a limited amount of their particular poison. In exchange for this they would have to do household chores in said environment. If they want to have money for their personal use, they would have to earn it by doing extra household chores. If they really want to kick the habit, help could be provided in-house.Also they shouldn't be given the freedom to come and go as they please. This would probably give the abusers' families a bit of breathing space as well.
Now how many of these shirkers do you think would actually use this type of facility?

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

infuriating isnt it,people who self inflict get help,people who are helping themselves and trying to get on in life through hard work get nothing GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

The problem will always be separating those that are in genuine need from those that dont. Never mind boozers n drug addled cruisers what about those who rely on depresion as a reason to claim benefits?

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

It was on Jeremy Kyle one morning last week when I was at the gym

A young, perfectly able bloke sat there and said he gets paid to sit and drink!
He has no intention of getting a job while the tax payers are made to pay him money

He then went onto say... take my money away... and I will have no choice but to get a job!

To me, that said it all

Jeremy Kyle just sat looking at the camera pleading the government to stop this blokes benefit!


No digs about watching Jeremy Kyle thanks:p

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

And aren't there a lot of people using depression as an excuse. I know someone who gets DLA because of Anorexia, another gets it for mild Angina (although she hasn't had an attack in years). Her neighbour who was severely burnt in a house fire has no hand use (they are fixed into a permanent fist), is often deprived of his benefits because they say he can work. Why do the government never challenge what I would class as minor ailments?

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

How and what would you define as minor ailments and under what criteria would they be judged?

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

This is not a new idea, it was done years ago and was called The Workhouse.
It was of course abused and people including children were often treated no better than animals
Maybe the system could be reformed in amore humanitarian manner?

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

Oh goody a large wheel in a shed with reprobates ton provide cheap lecky now that will go down better than melting chocolate over.........

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

I'm not a doctor but if anorexia or mild angina are not causing too many problems why get full benefits. Anorexia is life threatening only when the sufferer loses so much weight they have to be forced to eat. It generally doesn't stop them doing normal everday tasks. Angina can be a major health problem, so can measles, mumps or any other disease/illness. It's the person who it is affecting that suffers the various complications that could arise, so a qualified specialist is the one who should judge how good/bad things really are.

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

The persons used for assesments are not specialists. even general practitioners but someone who likes to meet targets. Anorexia can lead to other medical problems that prevent that person being of any use that and the energy levels are less than that of a tesco value zinc carbon battery.

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

I realise the assessors are not specialists and that's why I say it should be a specialist. At the very least the claimants doctor/surgeon/consultant will know what is really going on with the claimants health and should be consulted by the assessor. I know most people want to make their symptons sound worse than they are and if they can get away with it, they will.
I used Anorexia as an example because I know the person suffering with it and I can tell you she is nowhere near death through starvation, nor does she have any medical complications that could arise. What she does have is Lazyitis. She knows she can get virtually anything from the government by claiming Anorexia and she will starve herself to do it. That is not right. I call that abusing the system and would like to see it stopped

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

Easy answer would be to do away with all benefits then and revert to the survival of the fittest mantra.

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

Hardly fair on the genuine claimants. What would happen to the oldest/youngest generations, many of whom are incapable of reverting to the law of the jungle.

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

Oh, aren't there just. :mad:

This one really annoys me and it's no wonder genuine people are reluctant to talk about their depression for fear of getting lumped in with all these malingerers.

The reason people go for depression is that it's very hard to dis-prove and can last a long time......people can be off with depression for years.

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

There is the point it was for the needy but as the system can be played by some then they will be payed though they are capable. So the question I put forth is "why is it harder for genuine claims to be made than in the mind of some bogus ones?"

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

if you could answer that un spug, you would get my vote fer P.M.;)

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

Would never take the PM job as I am to "politically incorrect" for it. :( Mind you could buy several banks with the cash I could make from it. :D

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

Anyone claiming DLA because of alcoholism should be made to go into rehab, no benefits to be paid until they have come out - clean. They should then be found employment and, should they fall off the wagon and lose the job for that reason, be unable to claim any benefit.

It's harsh, yes, but why should they have special treatment? To say "I can do any job as long as I have a drink" is an intolerable excuse. Acoholism is an addiction but so is smoking. Smokers, of whom I used to be one, don't have the luxury of claiming DLA because they can't work without a smoke. They are told, "It's tough - get on with it."

I have lots of sympathy with alcoholics who try to get their lives back on track. I have none for the workshy.

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

Has it been made too easy to get benefits? Will loopholes be closed? Answering these will be a start.

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

That would be my solution too.

I just have one question though - are there really jobs available for all these unemployed people? Especially at times like this.

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

i think people should take a few minutes to consider what is going on here, as soon as someone mentions people claiming benefits the "ive worked all my life" brigade get on their soap boxes and start vilifying people who for the most part have also worked hard for many years, but now find themselves in unfortunate circumstances, mostly not of their own making. have you any idea as to how humiliating this can be to the vast majority of honest claimants?
this country is on the brink of a financial catastrophy, and it will without doubt mean for many of these misinformed people a prolonged period of unemployment, claiming benefits to which they are fully entitled, it may help them to understand though just what its all about.
dennis.

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

just because someone is depressed or on anti depressants doesnt always mean they claim sick pay(from the social), i have been on anti depressants for over 2 years, i still only claim income support, i hadnt even given sick pay a thought, i'm still waiting to see the advisor at the job centre about going back to work, in my opinion its better to go back to work than stay stuck in moping around if your depressed



its ok H i know you werent getting at anyone in particular x

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

As I see it, the bogus claimants know how to use the system, whereas someone new to claiming is acting off the advice of the DWP advisors.

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

The advice from the advisor's is not always correct either as i have had the misfortune to encounter in the past. I could not screw the system as I have spent most of my time in work and would in a way just be robbing myself.

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

Oh you are so right there. They also give conflicting advice. Talk about the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing. :confused:

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

No, I wasn't getting at anyone on here and certainly not you.

Like I said, I feel sorry for genuine depression sufferers as it is a horrible thing to suffer from.

As it is hard to prove and can last a long time it is a very popular illness of choice with those who fancy several months at home. You can't say you've got a broken leg if you haven't but you can easily cite depression.

I've known a few who've done this....it really annoys me. :mad:

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

i know what you mean H, its like people who say they suffer from agoraphobia(i know some genuinely do, i dont mean those), there is just no way of proving it so they get away with it, now THAT pee's me off

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

I know somebody who was on benefits of one kind or another for over 20 years, untill he suddenly lost the sight in one eye due to a hospital blunder, he got over a hundred thousand for it, prior to this, he always worked (on the side) and always claimed benefits for, unemployment, sickness, alcohlism, depression, psychosis, you name it, every time he was reported or caught, he just signed for a new benefit, when he got his 'windfall', he bought the house the tax payer paid rent for (17 years) for a song, it is worth 90,000 plus.

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

Once upon a time long term claimants of sickness benefits were called in to see the “Social Security” doctor. The office was based on Northgate in Blackburn adjacent to Mercers.

After about three months of being on the sick you got a letter telling you to attend at a particular time and day. This was not negotiable. If you didn’t attend you got struck off the sick. Those who attended then had to demonstrate to the doctor that they still suffered from what put them on the sick.

That certainly sorted out the scroungers.

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

When Warrington Tax Office, where I worked for over 20 years, moved to a new building in the town centre it shared premises, for a couple of years, with the DSS Tribunals who had a room on the ground floor. Claimants on long-term sick had to attend for assessment.

I was on the top floor, quite high up, and I watched, on several occasions, claimants walking happily from a car park 2 streets away. As soon as they thought they were "in view" from the Tribunals office the limp would start and by the time they reached the steps up to the front door they were barely able to drag themselves along. :rolleyes:

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

I’ve no time for those that abuse our Benefit system.



Some folk actually take to “drinking themselves silly” literally, for differing reasons. Dementia can be alcohol induced. As can death.

The dead ones the state/tax payers don’t have to keep. What about those with other illnesses which are alcohol induced. Should their benefits be cut, possibly punishing the whole family.

Each case has to be judged on its own merits, more thoroughly than seems to be at present.

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

Unfortunately as with anything else it is the genuine claimants who lose out and quite often start to feel guilty about claiming. Doctors must be taken to task for just handing sick notes out willy nilly, then just maybe people who are genuinely ill will get the benfits they are entitled to!!!

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

its always been the genuine that suffer, thats never changed n probably never will, reason i say this is simple, there is no real political will, to sort the scroungers, bump em all its the easiest. just like in motoring, different thing i know, but same end result.:rolleyes:

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

An old man went to the social security office to sign up. He had stood in the line for a very long time until it was finally his turn. The lady behind the counter ask him for identification. He went to get his wallet out of his back pocket and relized he had left it at home. The lady told him that was alright he could just show her his chest hairs and if they were grey she knew he was old enough for social security. After everything was done there he went home and told his wife how his day went. He told her that he had forgotten his wallet at home and the lady at the social security office just ask him to pull down the front of his shirt and she could tell he was old enough. After listening to his story his wife told him if he had dropped his pants he probably could have gotten disability too.

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

It was actually 26 weeks JB, I went twice, but I went to Bury, on the second occasion I saw the same doctor I saw on the first occasion. He looked at my notes and looked up at me and said "I've seen you before haven't I" I said he had, the last time I came. He just said then "Why are they wasting my time, your time, and their money keep sending you to see me, you aren't going to get better, you are only going to go worse, how true those words were, unfortunately

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

Sounds like a good argument for increasing payments to alcoholics so they croak sooner.:signbeer::drink::alc:

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

This is really extracting the urine;

Mother of all council houses | The Sun |News

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

The mind Boggles really, when even the woman says shes getting to much, seems to me that these rules need changing and stop these rip offs:mad:

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

Well that takes the biscuit. :mad:

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

its like i always said, its the system that allows this- to blame, nothing else.:rolleyes:

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

Why do they need seven bedrooms?:confused: Whatever happened to kids sharing rooms????

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

The law says a seperate bedroom is required for:

• A Couple
• Someone who is 16 or over
• Two children of same same sex under 16
• Two children of either sex under 10
• A child under 16


Looking at the Local Housing Allowance Rates (used to be Housing Benefit Allowance) I don't see how anyone without kids could afford to rent in the private sector if unemployed. A couple/single person is only allowed £50 allowance. Judging by the average rents charged, you would have to pay £35 out of your Jobseekers Allowance. Maybe I have worked it out wrong, I'm not sure. Does anyone have any experience of this?

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

Ridiculous.

My boys will be in the same room until one of them leaves home. Unless they are going to pay for an extra bedroom for me.

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

Technically all homeowners who allow their children to share bedrooms after a certain age are breaking the law. Wonder how the government are going to police that one. You'll be getting fined for not having the correct living facilities. Oh I can see it now. Some muppet in government is thinking it's a good way to screw us even further. :D

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

Much obliged for the correction but after undergoing a carpal tunnel operation on both hands I was sent for after 13 weeks.

Maybe I was just unlucky.

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

How do I get a 100% grant for a loft conversion then?

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

Rob a bank. Oops can't do that, they're broke as well :hehetable

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

So what about all our cash that Darling n Brown have given em????
:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused: :confused::confused::confused:

Hang on I know the answer they gave it in bonuses to there executives. :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

i thought that was only for boys and girls sharing?

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

Apparently there are also rules about ages of same sex children.

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

Tell me again that Big Brother is not galloping towards us.

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

I repeat, big brother is not galloping towards us, he spends too much time checking the rules to do any good in his posts!
http://planetsmilies.net/ill-violate...miley-5392.gif

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

I didnt think that counted either, tho it would prompt a housing crisis as formally a 2 up 2 down would surfice for 2 same gender siblings now would mean a 3 bed house allocation & so forth ....there is a shortage of 4+ bed houses in circulation of the social rented circle for definate!:eek:

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

Why a fourth bedroom? Which extra gender, are you catering for?

I thought until puberty there were only two genders?
:eek:

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

:rofl38: pmsl think the law or law on housing needs asking about that its totally confused me lol ....:D

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

How long ago was that JB

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

Oh I don’t know!

Late seventies, early eighties.

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

I thought Big Brother had already trampled on us :hesoff:

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

there is actually NO law on the sharing of rooms, only guidelines

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 

Thank god for that! Was going to have to buy about four tents for the garden! :D