Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

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YouTube - David Icke - Big Brother by Election - The Bigger Picture Part 1/16

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

In this day and age anyone can make em... thus validity would be a problem..

I have a press card with a police phone number printed on it.. I have a password.. anyone wanting to check who i am phones the number and gives em my password to validate..

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

Isn't this old news?

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isnt it posted in general chat for dicussion and not posted as a news item...

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

I can't remember remind me.
:D

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There's a thread here about it ;)
http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...ing-43958.html

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

I knew I'd read it somewhere before, cheers.
http://planetsmilies.net/happy-smiley-575.gif

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

They'll at least stop me from having to carry around my driving licence, passport, or utility bills, as proof of identity, and therefore as a single item, will be much safer to carry around.;)

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Will they though?

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

If the police stop you and you ahve no form of identification they can keep hold of you until you prove who you are.. an ID card would help

can they still do stop and search ?

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Putting all your eggs in one basket worked out really safe for Northern Rock. ;)

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lets be honest. no goverment anywhere in teh world is capable of implementing such a project with teh correct security as this would need to be anywhere near useable.

one dodgy laptop and your ID card is cloned to high heaven.

NO thank you from a POV of someone who knows just how hard this sort of thing would be.

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

You could say the same when you put your eggs in any one person's basket.;)

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/200...DM_228x354.jpg

Though I really don't know what that has to do with identity cards.

An identity we have to prove many times already, by many other methods.

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I don't think David Icke is the most credible person to use in an argument against ID cards.

£20 Billion is a lot of money for something we apparently already have in place Garinda. :)

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

If you notice I haven't said if I think it is a good or bad idea, as not being a member of any political party, I'm free to put my eggs in the most suitable basket, or even lob them at someone, if I so wish.;)

It's just that I'm not the sort of person to get my knickers in a twist, by thinking the introduction of identity cards is an errosion of my civil liberties, when we already all but have them, but under other guises.:)

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

True... and what happens when they start taking yer DNA at birth.. or do they already.... hmm they have mine anyway :) sonn it will be simple to check who you are at roadside by dna or summat... it will happen

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

Good.

I have no problem with it, as I've kept my nose clean.:D

Besides if it could help one missing child being returned to it's parent's, that is worth it in my book.

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Still won't be any good Rindi, when the government has already lost all the disks with our information on them, and you can buy your identity for £80 on the internet:rolleyes:

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

Eighty quid?

You need to shop around more.

I bought your identity for £7.99 ;)

:D

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Even thats to dear for mine Rindi, the only thing I can hope for is somebody puts somat in mi bank account:D;)

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

Yes but just as valid today, in fact even more so.

In spite of objections from the general public, the government has quietly and surreptitiously been going ahead to organise the ID card implementation.

It’s only a matter of time before Orwell’s Big Brother scenario becomes a reality.

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

Nowt to hide....Nowt to worry about...........:D

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Don't worry Jambutty, as has been proven with teh NHS project its almost impossible for our Gov to get this sort of thing working.... :D

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Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

I think it is aimed more at people that have several identities,that claim in different Towns and Cities for large families.
There are a great number of them.:hidewall::hidewall:

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

Saying that I bought the identity of a Mr. P. Britcliffe for only £2.99, and I'm doing a roaring trade in hiring myself out as a spouse to the love hungry from the third world.

So you were relatively expensive to purchase.;):D

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

I am indifferent on this topic. Identity fraud is possible regardless of whether these cards are in existence. Would they make it easier to steal identity? I don't really know.

I had doubts over chip and pin. Catching sight of a 4 digit number is potentially easier than forging a signature. Especially within families, and these things do happen, think of members with gambling debts or drug addictions. Yet it works.

As for people complaining about how much info the government would have on people, well they have it all already, it would just be compiled into one thing rather than all over the place. If you are a good, decent person, you shouldn't have anything to worry about. If you are a crook, then yeh, you probably should be a bit more concerned as obviously the government are going to have more ability to see what you are up to at a glance.

I'm not a technology expert but until something more concerning is demonstrated to me, I will stay on the fence.

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

It appears that the Jock parliament are going to vote against the identity cards, God bless the United Kingdom:rolleyes:

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

Hey Garinda, Nietzsche broke down in the street crying and spent the rest of his life in a mental hospital - so is that what happens if you laugh for no reason ha ha ha!

I.D. cards arn't the problem in themselves it's what they will be used for, to control all your activities and it will all be on one big data base. It will be of no benefit to us!

You say you have nothing to worry about if you've kept you nose clean! That's a joke. WHat happens when they bring in the next thing that take away more rights until you have no rights left but are just a moron sitting on a chair in front of a computer screen. But perhaps you might already be that?

What happens if next they say we are going to take all your children away under 6? What would you do then?

Hey Garinda, Nietzsche broke down in the street crying and spent the rest of his life in a mental hospital - so is that what happens if you laugh for no reason ha ha ha!

I.D. cards arn't the problem in themselves it's what they will be used for, to control all your activities and it will all be on one big data base. It will be of no benefit to us!

You say you have nothing to worry about if you've kept you nose clean! That's a joke. WHat happens when they bring in the next thing that take away more rights until you have no rights left but are just a moron sitting on a chair in front of a computer screen. But perhaps you might already be that?

YouTube - David Icke - Big Brother by Election - The Bigger Picture Part 6/16

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

Where will this Orwellian nightmare end?

They'll be issuing us all with cradle to grave identity numbers next.

What?

They already do?

A unique National Insurance number?

I am a free man, not a number.

:D

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I'm much tougher than he was, and find great relief from mental strain by laughing at the paranoia of the other imbeciles.;)

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Not as you'd notice:rolleyes:

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Wrong way round.

It is “I am not a number! I'm a free man!”

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Er...thanks Gramps.

I do actually know the quote from The Prisoner.

You do make me laugh, being as you are, one of the oldest imbeciles in the Asylum.

:p

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

Found this on another forum relating to the ID card idea.....

Surprised they didn't just mandate a simple ID number tattooed onto one's arm - after all, it's simple, convenient, readily accessible using no special hardware and already been trialled, albeit some 70 years ago.

They could even start by choosing some segregated part of the community to be required to have an ID number in isolation. If the size of the sample is small enough any objections can be fobbed off as 'not representative of the wider community as a whole' after which another small segment could be targeted using the well known ploy 'but it has already been widely adopted by this other section of the community so you're not being singled out. On the contrary, we're being scrupulously fair by making sure you're being included too!'

As they say arbeit macht frei:D

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

What forum was it?

School kids trailer park conspiracy theorists r us?

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

The National Insurance number across the forehead could become a fashion statement.

Wasn’t there a trial in California some time back where people volunteered to have an implant in their arm, much like those ID tags for animals, that could be used for a variety of things, like banking?

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

Ya and a lot of things you don't want to happen as well JB

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Come, come Garinda. Is that the only response that you can offer? Cheap derision?

The man has a point. This happened in a supposedly civilised country - within living memory. It took just 6 years to turn a democracy into a dictatorship. Thinking that it can never happen here is the ostrich response I fear. Sadly we still need a government that will pass laws that will protect the individual from the state.

When any government has it's back against the wall, they seek to curtail the rights of the individual, generally using the excuse that is for the greater good. They rely on the apathy of the governed to sneak in oppressive legislation or, more commonly, their fear and anxiety for action against a real or imagined threat.

I feel that we need a written constitution, guaranteeing certain rights in perpetuity.

They have already discussed the removal of the right to trial by jury. What next do you think? Habeas corpus? They'd love to get rid of that one.

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

Strangely whilst we were fighting Nazism, many, including my grandfather, laying down their lives, the population of this country had identity cards...to help with the security of our nation.

Can't remember many people pathetically bleating on then about their civil liberties being attacked.;)

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

:dummy2::dummy2: Di-dums.

What's happened to your sense of humour?

I thought your ideals of free speech meant that any target was fair game, if it produced even the wryest of titters?

Or does it not apply if the butt of the joke is you or your little friend?

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

This is what I say to I.D. cards -

YouTube - Schoolgirl Bitch - Abusing the Rules
In the Mail today it says if you fail to tell the government any new details you will be fined starting at £125:00. For not telling them of your new address.

At the moment you can change your name for about £10:00 £20:00 understatutory declaration and as long as you don't do anything criminal that is legal. With the I.D. cards and Data Base this will be Illegal and you will have to pay more money to change your name!

The issue is why
should we accept more rules, RULES THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE BEFORE!

Cheers,

Kestrel X.:dflam::mosher:

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

what forum was it, seems a reasonable enough question to me, if the man has a point, then back his information up, nowt wrong wi that. but then being the devious git i am, i suspect you n the poster are someway connected.:rolleyes:

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

They're each other's special friends on their profiles.

Bless.

Perhaps they've known each other since special school.

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

Cashman, the forum in question is PPRuNe Forums - Professional Pilots Rumour Network

Pilots and all airport workers in the UK who have access to restricted areas are amongst the first to be getting the new ID cards, we already have a Restricted Area Card, also known as a Airside Pass, which allows you access to certain areas of the airport, ie a pilot will be allowed to access the Apron (where we park the planes), airside departure and arrival lounge, but not the baggage handling areas (where the mystical baggage handlers live and break your cases), or certain maintenance areas.
All staff who have one of these, as I do, has to undergo various security background checks, much more rigorous and time consuming than the new ID card checks.

The holder of a Airside Pass, still has to undergo Security Screening just as any other passenger and is also subject to the same rules.
BALPA (The British Airline Pilots Association) are against the ID card scheme as are the majority of Pilots and Air Crew.

Now I am off to play with my Crayons and Boeing 737-400, to Paris Orly and back

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

Fingers crossed you don't get lost on the way back, in finding Euston station.;)

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

I'm all for humour Garinda, I just thought that a person with your acumen would have used a more structured argument.

As to ID cards in the war, it was a necessary evil in a time of national peril. The were not needed afterwards and were abandoned. As to their efficacy, much the same as now - very easily forged and therefore useless. The only parties to gain in this are the agents of the state, collecting more and more data about us all. That's OK with a benign government but who can guarantee what kind of party will be in power in 10 , 20 or 50 years. It could so easily happen.

The argument that if you have nothing to hide that you have nothing to fear doesn't wash either. Again, with a benign government, no problem. Just think what life would be like if your every move could be tracked, the state looking over your shoulder all the time. That will come even closer with road pricing. It would, of course, be "For our own good"; but I don't want to live in a society like that, would you?

We need to protect our hard-won freedoms.

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

I think Garinda should publish all the details the state would hold if he has no fear of it all being lost in one data leak. ;)

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

If you carry a mobile phone it is already possible to track your movements. Indeed some very naughty people have already been convicted using such evidence.

What a liberty!

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but hasn't holy war been declared against western democracy?

If the introduction of idenity cards stops one more innocent person dieing as a result of a terrorist's bomb, then it will have been worth my loss of liberty by having to have an identity card.

What a liberty!

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

Why don't you?;)

I've absolutley nothing to hide.

I've never even been a member of any political organisation, unlike some.;)

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

I dont have a proble of I.D.cards in principle as we all carry some for of I.D all the time, its more a marrer of the governmnt losing all my data that scares the crap out of me.:rolleyes:

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

Go ahead then? I won't be doing. I'm not in favour of £20billion schemes which will make not an ounce of difference other than making it easier for the government to lose my data. I'd rather they go on the police, the NHS, I'd rather they save lives than be some fictitious defeater of terrorism.

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

That's a problem we have already, with the data that's already held on us.

Do you suggest we throw away our birth certificates, National Insurance numbers, driving licences, passports etc., because the information held on those forms of identity may be lost?

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

Nice. I'm sure that attitude will bring great comfort to the families that have lost a loved one killed by a terrorist's bomb.

Pray how much is the war in Iraq/Afghanistan costing each day, the war your beloved Conservatives agreed we should fight in?

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

they must have changed their minds now, but "Not" fer political reasons.:rolleyes:

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Terrorists who would all have held ID cards. We should be spending money on the police, to prevent terrorism, so we have no more blood shed on our streets.

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

so your saying osama n all his followers were british citizens?:rolleyes:

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

Er...wrong again.

At present I don't think you have to carry an identity card if you are from Leeds.;)

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If this wasteful scheme were implemented the terrorists would have had identity cards. So how would ID cards have prevented these tragic deaths?

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

Blimey, it makes you long for the 'on your bike', and the 'hang 'em, and flog 'em' old school Conservatives, rather than today's bleeding heart Tories, who seem more concerned with the civil rights of suspected terrorists, and the paranoid worries about our civil liberties being erroded.

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

I think I missed it, try it again, how would £20 Billion ID cards have prevented the deaths?

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

How is an I.D. card going to help pinpoint a terrorist who is born and bred in Leeds, when in most cases even their own parents don't know their dark secrets. I certainly think that every person coming to live in this country should have an I.D. card, but like you say we have driving licences passports (but I don't any more) bank books, as for bleeding heart, I'll leave that to the fascist left Guardian reads like Pole Dance Polly

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

As I said on the very first page of this thread, I'm not opposed to identity cards in principle, because of the paranoid belief that their introduction would lead to an attack on my civil liberties.

No one I've spoken to that carried them in Word War II, thought their civil liberties were erroded by having them. But hey, perhaps they would say that...as we won that war.

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

......as we won the war, not as you'd notice, Blair and Brown did in one stroke what Hitler couldn't managed in six years of war, they sold us down the river, in Blairs case for his own ends:(

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

That's rather insulting to those who gave their lives in the fight against fascism.

We continue to live in a deocracy where we are still free to vote for those we want to lead us, just as we are still free to vote out those we don't.

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

Garinda, you've made clear you're not against them under the basis of 'civil liberties'. So are you for or against ID cards?

I've still yet to hear how this ID card scheme would prevent terrorism, if that is indeed what you believe.

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

As I've so patiently said I'm neither for or against the introduction of idenity cards, but I'm certainly not swayed by the argument that their introduction would be an assault on our civil liberties.

According to the Home Office the intoduction would make it harder for terrorists to conceal their real identities, and would therefore hasten any convictions. Surely a good thing.

Plus it would make it harder for any would be terrorists to make unlawful claims for benefits, which would fund their living costs whilst they are planning their attacks against us. Again that sounds like a good thing to me.

Terrorism and Organised Crime - Identity and Passport Service

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

As for the economic viability of the introduction of identity cards, before I could make an informed decision I would need to know how many millions of pound were being paid to fraudulent claimants of social security benefits, and how soon the cost of the card's introduction would have paid for itself, by the money saved from not paying those illegal claimants.

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Yes Boeing Guy last time they used to tattoo a number on you was in the Nazi concentration camps and they were Jews. That may indicate where all this I.D. card scheme is going!?

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I could not agree more

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if you honestly think that, i suggest ya see a doctor.:rolleyes: its n illness.

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What river is that ? are you on drugs.

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So you are a bit more clued up to the real world than I thought
I couldnt agree more

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

I have gone through all these posts and would like to answer a few comments.

Less says this is Old news, it isn't old this is the future mate and could effect you and your kids life. You could be tracked by an annonymous government agent who has access to your medical files, history, school records everything from birth to death!

Garinda don't you value freedom? What happened to being known in your local shop or post office without needing I.D.? THe I.D. card scheme will be like nothing else as it will all be on a massive data base. So this is nothing like any other form of I.D. that we need at the moment. Even with the N.I. number at the moment they can't track your movements.

Exactly Meccy, once these systems are in place all it takes is one dictator to come in and there will be total control of everyone and everything they do with the massive leaps in power of computers and the nano-technology Micro-computers that can't even be seen with the eye?) that is coming in now. What you have seen in science fiction will eventually be real. THis is why I say no to I.D. cards and Datebases as it's the first rung on the ladder to totalitarian control.

Like what happened in 1930's Germany. Society as we know it could collapse over night.

This country supposedly fought against Nazi Germany to protect our freedom but now the government are planning to take away our freedom on a massive scale - I.D. Cards are just the start!

Yes they had I.D. cards in the second world war but they didn't have a massive computer to keep records and track people to back it up.

I agree with Jay Say that Blair sold us down the river. Blair lied about Weapons of Mass destruction and started a war that has stirred up more hatred and created more terrorism against Britain. Al Queada was originally formed by USA Government C.I.A. to undermine the Soviet war against Afganistan that took place in the 80's. BIn Laden and his people were trained and funded by the C.I.A. Now they say they must take away our freedoms to protect us from Terrorism - it's all a load of hypocrisy!

If you were in Iraq and had done nothing wrong and suddenly your house was bombed by USA or Britain and you came home and your kids were blown to bits how would you feel? What would you do? You'd probably want to get revenge and that would mean becoming a terrorist?


Some one said David Icke can't be trusted, but a lot of what he says about politics is right!

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Benefit fraud (and error) costs us £2.6 billion according to recent statistics. The government figures show 95% of benefit fraud is by fraudulent circumstances, not identity. This means we would make a maximum saving of £130 million. That would cover the £20 billion cost in around 150 years time.

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Perhaps your brother, the Tesco blackmailer would have found it more difficult to conceal his identity whilst making bomb threats, and would have been caught and convicted sooner, if we'd have had identity cards?

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

Good.

So it would pay for itself.

I tend to look at the broader picture, and not just what's under my nose today.

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

So you think that something taking 150 years to pay back is a productive use of public money. I'd prefer people with life threatening illnesses are given essential treatment with the money saved.

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everyone i think would prefer that, fact is they never ever got that, n never will do, you know that as well as i do.:) also a completly differant issue,:)

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As well as looking at the broader picture I also live in the real world, and realise that lots of things should be cut, and go to more worthy causes, but they aren't.

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For instance we could save billions of pounds by withdrawing from Iraq, the country your beloved Conservatives supported the invasion of.;)

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we posted at the same time.:rofl38::rofl38: this is like "Watch With Mother";)

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That happens with the 'mafia'.:rolleyes::D

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

If we've got to have them all well and good,Can't see a problem apart from the cost,but I won't be paying anyway.Tend not to worry about things that are out of my control.:jimbo::jimbo:

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

You want to lay of the Guinness pal, will rote what little brain you ever had:rolleyes:

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That's always been the trouble Beni, irrespective of the colour of government, they all do things which were never muted in election manifesto's, so we have to grin and bare it

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Typical Tory. Lumping statistics together.

If it is costing us £2.6 billion for benefit fraud and benefit error would that be $1 fraud and £2.6 minus £1 for error?

But that is what politicians do when they want to spin a statistic into something different.

Until fraud and error are separated your statistic is meaningless.

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I agree,can't see any difference between the two major political parties,they are both on the same gravy train and we are doing the pushing.:confused::confused:

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I certainly wont be making any actions to get one, I have enough ID already.

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ah good to see another who knows the score.;)

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It's all to much for me...a Tory complaining about fraud?..look at your own back benches ..son!

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Mancie,Mancie, ya should know by now! that don't count wi them people.:D

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

your quote the other way round
If you were in Britain and had done nothing wrong and suddenly your street or train station was bombed by muslim fanatics and you came home and your kids were blown to bits how would you feel ? What would you do.My quote Any decent person would not become a terrorist and do harm in revenge to totally innocent members of the public.You come across as a bit of a fanatic yourself or have you been visiting one of those
mosque`s
Britains intentions in Iraq have always been to help the people of that country

Re: Are I.D. cards a good thing?
 

Its completely relevant for what I'm arguing. My figures assume there is no error, and all £2.6 billion is for fraud. If more of it is spent on error, it simply increases the number of years ID cards will take to pay back, hence reducing the cost effectiveness even further.

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Thats a bit much suggesting a person could be a moron sitting on a chair in front of a computer because they dont quite share your views on this.
I think the Goverment should have information on all citizens including
D N A That is nonsense to suggest they will be used to control all your activities and also nonsense that it could be used to take all your rights away and also nonsense to suggest that it wont be of benefit to us.
If a person has nothing to hide it can only be of benefit.
It will help keeping details on known and suspected criminals.child abusers
terrorists.drug dealers.tax evaders. benefit cheats. bigamists. The list is endless. if you are a good honest citizen I D cards will be of benefit.

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i actually agree with gordie,:eek: the only thing concerns me, is the cretins that lose data on a regular basis.:rolleyes:

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I will be the second to agree with Gordie, just find a goverment agency to keep the records safe. Or maybe by losing them they can keep immigration figures lower, sorry to be cynical!!!

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And you think your grubby mod are any different, the only difference is those on the Labour benches sold away their principles just to get their snouts in the trough Prescott being a fine example, he ain't done bad for an out of work cabin steward, anyone for croquet:D

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No your not cynical Bernie just telling it as it is:rolleyes:

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The first people to get false ID - and they will!! Will be criminals - terrorists - drug dealers. The expensive ID card program will not make us safer; it will give an increasingly autocratic government details of our every move and therefore more power over us - which they don't need.