Do They Live In The Real World?
 

After watching David Cameron on the news tonight I am beginning to wonder if any of the politicians live in the real world. As we all know we are in a major recession but he decides to come to Manchester and start talking about getting people back into work:confused:
Don't get me wrong I am all for the "can't work won't work brigade" being dealt with but why in the middle of a recession do both parties decide they will try and tackle this issue? To me neither party knows which way to move to improve things so they try to deflect attention away from what is a serious issue. And why do they always come North to try and get the point across? Most of our major manufacturing jobs are long gone. Is unemployment not rife down South? It just riles me when they come North to try and make theirselves look as if they are trying to tackle an issue. Surely the "can't work won't work brigade" live all over the country but once again the Norths problems are high-lighted!!!!

Re: Do They Live In The Real World?
 

From what I understand of the issue, we, as a nation, are in a lot of debt. To repay debt you need money. To get money generally you need a job. The government can't pay off all the debt we, as a nation owe, because they were already in a lot debt before this even happened and to some extent it isn't their problem that we ourselves borrow beyond our means. So it makes sense to encourage us to pay back the debt ourselves owe and at least solve some of the problem, and to do that we need jobs.

Sadly we're being encouraged to buy ourselves out of an economic crisis at the same time and there are undoubtedly going to be millions of people with access to credit who are still spending beyond their means in order to invest in the times. Obviously we all see the sales and we are a materialistic nation. I think the current climate IS encouraging poorer people to spend more money but sadly it is more money that they don't have, so whilst we may be buying the government out of their mistakes, we're just spending ourselves into more poverty.

I think it is pretty disgusting but unfortunately I'm not in a position to dictate how the government should govern.

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The BBC are running a story this morning about lack of jobs so either the people responsible for the report or Cameron are wrong, I know who I think are more likely to know the facts :rolleyes:

Re: Do They Live In The Real World?
 

I didn't see what Cameron said but it is obvious that jobs would decrease. People cut back on luxuries and one of the luxuries of capitalists is being able to have people do all the petty jobs for them, and at times like these jobs like these go and people do them theirself. Businesses that don't cut back on these things tend to go under!

Waterford Wedgwood is a prime example of how cutting back effects business!

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He was invited to Manchester by M.E.N. He got asked a question about what he was going to do about benefits cheats, by a member of the public. Too damn right benefits cheats should be tackled!

What he had to say was going ahead with improvements in public transport in Manchester, where as the government are not putting the funding in because Manchester voted against the congestion charge.

He wants government to guarantee business loans to get the banking sector moving again. He can see that the £37 billion put into the banking system is NOT working. It is not getting credit moving. We need to make it move if we want a recovery rather than a depression.

He said the Bank of England should be put back in charge of regulating credit and debt in the economy. Which Gordon Brown removed in 1998, and hence why we are in this banking mess, as they've had no regulation.

Sensible suggestions, I'm glad he is not ignoring the very important North.

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For one, its just a publicity thing coming up north. He could not give a monkeys about us lot up here. Not that labour do either mind.

While the bank of england probably should be in charge of regulating credit etc it would not have done anything to help the current financial problem. The problem we are facing now is not a shortage of money in peoples pockets or the amount of debt people as individuals are in but a problem stemming from banks not trusting each other any more.

One or two american banks go under because of bad credit and it brings the entire system to a halt because every other bank starts to panic.

So no businesses cant get the loans and overdrafts they need and thus start to cut back on their spending, if businesses dont spend money with other businesses the entire economy starts rolling backwards and you get the collapse of large companys and thus a rapid increase in general unemployment.

For the moment it isnt scum bag individuals living off the back of government money that we need to worry about, its getting the system moving forward again.

England should in fact see this as an oppertunity rather than a problem, if we can get back to our feet quicker than other countrys it gives us a chance to grow overall, but to do that its the bankers that need a good kicking before we stick the boot into benifits cheats.

rant over, thats just my opinion

Re: Do They Live In The Real World?
 

It certainly would have helped the current financial problem massively. You say yourself this is caused by debt (then shortage of credit as banks don't trust how bad each others debts are, so stop lending). Regulating banks which was the case until the 1998 Bank of England Act, would have reduced the impact on the British economy. They were allowed to get out of control with lending.

There's no doubt we're in a global recession. But if this had been left alone, banks regulated and government had kept its own debts down, during the sunny days, we'd be much better prepared to weather the recession. Unlike today, where we remain the least prepared according to the IMF.

Re: Do They Live In The Real World?
 

I think its a total waste of Money to have saved these bankers hides in the way that its been done. Would have been much better to have used funds to set up a National "Peoples" Bank perhaps via the Post Office network. The Government should have Guaranteed Individuals and Companys money in the existing banks but let the Banks themselves go under if need be. Might be very painfull in the short term, but who's to say that some of them still wont fold and others have to be become totally Government owned by the time this recession eventually clears. It looks as though interest rates are coming down yet again tomorrow, but why bother, because the banks dont trust one another, (Not that anyone trusts banks anymore mind you!!), they are not going to pass this cut on and reduce lending to Buisnesses or to people who want a Mortagage. Might as well raise the interest Rates back up, give Savers who have been carefull, a decent return on their funds, and encourage people to invest in the UK again! At least then the main culprits responsible would be made to suffer for their Greed and total incompetance!


Best Regards - Taggy

Re: Do They Live In The Real World?
 

Does the original Question include Blazey and AndrewB by any chance as well all politicians? Because in my mind the answer for both is a resounding No.

Re: Do They Live In The Real World?
 

I'm very surprised that your banking system is as unregulated as it is. Canadian banks, regulated by the Bank Act and the Bank of Canada are rock solid ... none of the major Canadian banks got into ninja loans .... problem here, is that the banks are being a little too tight with the purse strings, and our governments are encouraging them to loosen up a little .... we are going to survive this recession with much less pain than the yanks and you guys; and when it is all over, the resources that underpin our economy ... oil, natural gas, uranium, potash, lumber, wheat, minerals of all kinds in abundance .... will still be there. If there is one thing that this meltdown has revealed, it is that businessmen can't be trusted to run business without govt. regulation ...

Re: Do They Live In The Real World?
 

nice one, heres a guy in casablanca that can see it as well.:rofl38::rofl38::rofl38:

Re: Do They Live In The Real World?
 

If the banks start to loan again too soon, people who are/have been out of work, and stupidly run the credit cards to the limit, will cause all kinds of problems, not being able to pay them back, this happened in the 90's, and they are well aware of it, so i dont blame them.

Re: Do They Live In The Real World?
 

Your constructive criticism has been noted. ;)

Re: Do They Live In The Real World?
 

Re: Do They Live In The Real World?
 

i truly hope so, cos it will do a world of good.;)

Re: Do They Live In The Real World?
 

I dont think for one minute that this is what's meant when this govenrment ask the banks to start lending again.
Small businesses and manufacturing businesses must take priority. They are employers.
If small bank customers decide to take on more credit that they can afford, it's down to the banks to refuse, they have got records and have the wherewithall to consult credit control specialists who have a record of every UK residence and i'ts occupants.
Anyone who puts the label of Fat Cat on a small business owner nust be very misguided.
I have read that the company Ffyfes went under today. They supplied Bananas to the majority of Fruit Wholesalers in the country.
Supermarkets are not buying from suppliers like this anymore.
I fear for the future unless we take complete stock and stuff the politics.

Re: Do They Live In The Real World?
 

I wonder why my opinion is off less value to anyone elses on this forum. It isn't like I claimed to have a solid knowledge on it or be the leading opinion, i only said from what I understand of the issue. If anyone else had said that they think the way the government is addressing the problem is disgusting people would have rushed to agree.


I also wonder why northerners always victimise themselves when it comes to politics. Figurehead politicians come up north to speak and you all view it like it is just a ploy to get votes. How sad that people doubt that someone could actually care.

Re: Do They Live In The Real World?
 

It's not

Re: Do They Live In The Real World?
 

Dear Blazey, your opinion is not disregarded by myself, or is it of no value. You have your own views on things and so do I. I have agreed with you on a several occasions and have even left karma for you.
My point was that your comments on a capitalist society and AndrewB's comments on how well Mr Cameron is doing, sounded like Political spin to me.
To be fair I find AndrewB's response very typical of of our political system. So don't get hurt by it, either of you, it was not personal

Keep em flying BG

Re: Do They Live In The Real World?
 

utter bunkem, never heard such garbage, yer on a paranoia trip or summat blaze.:hehetable

Re: Do They Live In The Real World?
 

It's not political spin at all though. I was pretty much quoting what he had said during the interview that the original poster watched, in order to inform that he hadn't just come to Manchester to talk about benefit cheats.

If having an alternative course of action to what governments pursue (which is what I had posted about) is typical of our political system, then good!

Re: Do They Live In The Real World?
 

Don't lets forget that Gordon and his Team (I use that phrase very loosely) are holding a cabinet meeting in Liverpool today, its part of the listening to the people clap trap which they've been spouting for years, they came, they saw, they listened, they stuck two fingers up to the public and said we know best get stuffed. Oh and by the way this is the third little exercise of this type costing the tax payer £200,000 a pop, mind you at least Gordon Will be saving two and a half percent VAT on the bill :rolleyes:

Re: Do They Live In The Real World?
 

Aren't you? I thought that's what "democracy" was all about.

Re: Do They Live In The Real World?
 

Just came across this https://donate.barackobama.com/page/...source=feature do you think Dave, Gordon or the other one might want to give the idea a go????

Re: Do They Live In The Real World?
 

I really do think that too much focus is being placed on individual debt....but then again, this is what the powers that be want us to do! The main problem has been the total greed, incompetance and irresponsibility of the Bankers and Fund Managers. They have not only encouraged individuals to borrow more than they could afford, but have put their own companies at risk by overvaluing assets and order books in order to finance a corrupt bonus system, built purely on short term gains. Why should the Government lend to the banks, if these banks then refuse to lend responsibly back to us? This is why i feel it was wrong to bail them out in the way that has been carried out. It is not the Banks the Government should have helped....some of them should have been left to flounder in their own greed....its the private buisnesses and individuals whose money should have been fully protected against a banks collapse. The Banks are taking the Bail out cash but are not accepting any responsibility for their actions...and no one is making them. Whilst this remains the case, nothing will change, because the same mistakes will occur again. Things cannot alter without change, and the banks and finnanicial institutions dont want change! As always it will be the "little man" in the Street who is left to shoulder the blame, the debt and the responsibility!

Best Regards - Taggy

Re: Do They Live In The Real World?
 

good post taggy spot on IMHO.

Re: Do They Live In The Real World?
 

I am one of the 'silent suffering savers' who is losing out on interest.
Since my savings now supply peanuts interest, I have been busy spending
New washer and dishwasher this week :D

Yet the current problem is partly due to too few people saving - but there is no incentive to save now

Re: Do They Live In The Real World?
 

Yes but now the cold weather payments have come through the pubs are kick starting the economy.
I didn't get one by the way.:jimbo:

Re: Do They Live In The Real World?
 

I'd write to your MP Beni:rolleyes:

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A vast amount of people in the north are on one benefit or another so would Manchester not be as good a place to come than any.
Better talking about getting people back to work which is probably the most important single factor especially for citizens in any prosperous country than talking about European regional grant aid etc . Maggie bless her but she let many of the great industries go to the wall probably never to return to this nation again.Hopefully todays leaders in Britain are taking a leaf out of other western industrial nations books who realise that some of these major industries with the jobs that they create need help at times.Better to pump a few million into some struggling company`s with future prospects than let it go to the wall and pay long term unemployment benefits with all its knock on effects.

Re: Do They Live In The Real World?
 

I don't care enough for politics to waste time on political spin. I wasn't defending either party and I'm pretty fed up of standing for either of them. I've not been accepted into Labour at University because our Labour Club is full of Commies whinging on about 'fighting the BNP' instead of things of any real value so we lock horns all the time. The party itself doesn't accept me as one of them because I made a proper judgement call when it comes to politics and looking at both sides instead of following blindly.

As for trying to be a conservative at university. Well if you like wine and cheese then you're going to have a fantastic time, but beyond that you might as well just not bother.

So when it comes to politics for me I generally just say whatever I think.There is nothing for me to gain in defending either side. So please don't think anything I say is 'spin' because I couldn't care enough about either of themto put that sort of effort in.

Re: Do They Live In The Real World?
 

Don't you think it's ironic that "Quality" British companies such as Wedgewood-Waterford-Royal Doulton employ more production people in Indonesia than they do in the UK/Ireland
BBC NEWS | Business | Wedgwood goes into administration

Not wanting to sound elitist , but its been my habit and lots of other Brit exiles/expats I know that whenever friends kids have got engaged they allways get at least one pair of Waterford champagne flutes and when the wedding happened they usually got a bit of Wedgewood or Royal Doulton , (all BIG sellers in the US). The news that the stuff is just another cheap/tat import from the far-east will destroy any credibility these 'quality British names' had.

Re: Do They Live In The Real World?
 

We are on to our second Dyson Vacuum cleaner, brilliant machine, designed in Britain and was made in Britain, then James Dyson found out he could save money by building the stuff abroad.

Before we all lament the Great British manufacturing base as being down to Heath/ Wilson/ Callahan/ Thatcher/ Major/ Blair/ Brown, maybe we should have a look at ourselves in the 1970's, we, the working people were very unionised and decided that we wanted more money, the Far East started making the same stuff for less, in some cases better, BL against the Japanese.

I remember the Buy British stickers and campaigns, but at the end of the day the British consumer bought foreign goods over his own.
I read an article a while ago regarding the loss of British Leyland, one of the workers said, at the time, that he would not buy one of their own cars as they were shoddy built and his Japanese car, (A Datsun 120Y if I remember rightly) was better built, started first time and was better equipped.

To be fair it is not just the worker and consumer at fault, successive governments and companies management have not helped, we allow imports without question and treat staff in a bad manner then wonder what has happened to our business's

We are very happy to buy Sony/ Samsung/ Toshiba etc, but then wonder why we have no manufacturing left here.


Just for Steeljack here, Apple don't manufacture in the US, but in the Far East, bit like most of the top name companies do.

Sorry for a bit of a drift, but politicians harping after the good old days will not get any of this back.
We have a proud history, The First Passenger Jet, Shipbuilding, Car Manufacturing, the Cotton Mills, the First Computer (not open for debate, Alan Turning and Tommy Flower were first), Concorde, I could go on. But we have all but lost it.

Re: Do They Live In The Real World?
 

I think the problem today is that we have a load of socialist politicians( who sold their principles long ago to become electable) running round Britain like headless chickens playing at trying to run a capitalist system. This is tantamount to taking a bus drive from the Hyndburn Circular, taking it to Manchester Airport, sticking him in a Jumbo Jet and telling him to fly to New York, both cases is a mitigated disaster;)

Re: Do They Live In The Real World?
 

According to latest statistics Cameron could have lessened his carbon footprint, which he says he's very keen on, by staying in London to give his little press conference.

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How many Trains Boat and Plans did it take to get Gorgeous Gordon and his premos to Liverpool yesterday:rolleyes:

Re: Do They Live In The Real World?
 

An awful lot more than you might think. It's a remarkably bad idea to put all the key figures of an entity such as a government into the same vehicle, in case something bad happens and you lose them all simultaneously. You'll note I'm not venturing into the idea that it might be no great loss, or the journey itself might not be worth the resulting environmental damage- that's been covered already.

I used to work for a company whose managers and directors were all sent on a teambuilding p*ss up once a year (I briefly held the "most guinnesses before vomiting" record- it gained far more peer respect than these outward bound courses where you argue abour how to build a bridge out of barrels and string). They were quite pleased to be able to get the number of planes down to three, by working out how they'd allocate the responsibilities of each person if they were lost, then making sure those who got that allocation weren't on the same plane.

Re: Do They Live In The Real World?
 

You haven't been on here long have you Studio!!! my post was just my usuall playful tit for tat with Rindi. I'm quite aware that even this Govenment wouldn't be so thick as to move the whole shooting match together (but there again they did think two and a half percent of VAT would be wonderful, when most retail outlets had already reduced prices by up to 50%) but why did they need to do it at all. You can bet your bottom dollar that if a major bank had have arranged a meeting in Liverpool at a cost of £200,000, World War three would have broke out.

Re: Do They Live In The Real World?
 

It may well have done :( ....seers have always said the middle east would be the start

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I always presumed they meant Norwich, and it would be connected to Sale of the Century (the quiz of the week) being brought back, with Nicholas Parsons as the Prince of Darkness.

Re: Do They Live In The Real World?
 

I agree with you, the made in the far-east label on quality crystal and ceramics will lose it`s appeal as a quality gift.I have many items myself of Galway crystal which is a arm of Waterford.I believe the O reilly family are the major shareholders of Waterford Wedgwood and have recently pumped several hundred million euros into the company to keep it trading strongly believing that there is massive future potential only to resign their directorships due to the present situation with 400 million euro debt.I believe a New York based consortium have just recently showed interest in a possible buy but believe if this fails Goverments should temporarily bail this company out due to its forecast future potential.I also believe some of our great shipyards should have been given more help to ride the recessions,the Italians are now building large ships with similar wage structures to the Brits