This what we are up against
 

Express.co.uk - Home of the Daily and Sunday Express | UK News :: "I’d rather go to jail than work"-

Its just a pity they don't have Hard Labour in prisons anymore:mad::mad::mad:

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It can't be true, it's not from a reliable source. Does the editor of the Daily Mail know you've been reading that downmarket rag?:D

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My dad worked as an instructor at HMPs Wymott and Garth for 36 years and he said they had a better life inside than we did. Three meals a day plus hot chocolate at lights out, TVs and games, plus more drugs in the cells than in the secure police compound.

Punishment?

Great Britain has gone soft.

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But I bet they were all wary of dropping the soap in the shower.......:eek:

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A friend of mine who is a Magistrate, went on a visit to Lancaster Farm (think that's its name) its a young offenders institute, is reaction was, its no wonder they keep committing crime its like a flaming holiday camp and probably ten times better than the homes they are used to

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The same storey was in the Mail too:p

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Fine words, Ken and I would wholeheartedly agree with you...what a pity it's a million miles away from Labour party policy and that most of your comrades would regard your views as illiberal and reactionary.

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You know me, Steve...ever courting the Grand Order of the Boot.

;)

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I reckon Claytonender will be making a careful note of your reactionary tendencies and reporting back to Comrade Harriet before long! ;)

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I'll get my derriere primed and in position.

It's been fun.

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It is fun.

Present tense.

We don't need another lost politico, ferreting about in the shadows.

:rolleyes:

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Don't reckon he's headed for the twilight zone just yet. He'll probably have to undergo a period of political re-education ("Progressive socialists believe in rehabilitation, not retribution. Discuss."). ;)

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Why am I reminded of a certain scene in A Clockwork Orange when I read that?

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Graham continued to speak his mind whilst a councillor, and get himself drawn into squables of a dangerously devil-may-care format.

Look what happened to him.

Unless the main rehabilitation centre is in the dank, damp tunnels, unde the Palace of Westminster.

:rolleyes:

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Talk about a storm in a teacup!.. what utter rubbish this is.. so some idiot wants to be banged up rather than do a few hours unpaid work... and it makes national headlines? :confused:

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..and Pet's Win Prizes.

People must like it, being one of the most popular papers in Britain.

At least it wasn't that other story, of immense public concern, can Katie survive another week on X-Factor.

:rolleyes::D

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Suppose we could regard the story in the Daily Express in the same light "a storm in a teacup". "Mum's £40k benefits scam", my goodness the lengths you lot will go to try and score political points!!!! Benefit fraud is and should be classed as just that but it seems you are allowed 77 years to pay it back at just £10 a week:mad: Oh forgot to add, a suspended sentence to boot and 120 hours community work, this country is a joke:o:o:o:o:o

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I don't see how this story is about scoring political points.. I've known people in the past from Accrington that have opted for prison terms rather than pay petty fines.. but never seen them in the national newspapers.

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Well if you can't see stories (from whatever side of the political spectrum) as being point scoring god help you if/when you need any help!!! There's only one way to go Mancie and believe me you have to fight for your rights, be it an x-ray, CT-Scan or any other medical treatment. Just ensure you know who to contact if god forbid you ever need any treatment anytime soon. Because no matter which side you bat for you will wait until maybe treatment is to late:(

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Apologies Bernie and I'm sure it's my fault .. but I don't know what you are talking about...do you mean the original post is point scoring or my replies?...has it happens I'm back in hospital end of this month for a few days.. nowt to do with politics. :)

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No need for apologies Mancie (we are friends on a brilliant discussion forum). But sorry whichever colour they/you are wearing, we never seem to get a direct answer from our local councillors (yes Ken I've read your posts but you never tell us how Labour would reverse the adverse downturn of Accy). And yes Mancie and Ken I do believe that National Policies do have a damn big effect on local Policies. Sorry but we ain't all that stupid as to believe what the current regime "promise" anymore that we believe what Labour "promise"!!!!

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labour/tory lib-dems are full of promise all promise.. but when we talk about downturn in public service there is one outstanding party and that is the tories.. yet we still have some people on here taking advantage of the NHS and welfare system created by labour..yet find time to moan and groan.. everyone is a scrounger.. apart from tory bloke!

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Labour try to not to promise many things in Hyndburn because it might sound OK on the doorstep but it's impossible for any party to guarantee anything and ends up becoming an outright lie just for votes which sounds rather hollow four years later the next time you're up for election and it still hasn't been done.

There's no magic wand that can just be waved to improve Accrington's fortunes but the main gripe Labour have about the Hyndburn Tories is the money that is wasted and the 'jobs for the boys' which have been dished out over the years. Hundreds of thousands of pounds at the very least could be saved in an instant by making cuts in departments which are management-heavy and redeploying that money to ground services or helping shave a bit more off the debts which the council has racked up.

Recently, I stated that Labour balanced the books when they were in power in 2002-2003 but I implied that they got rid of all debt which isn't true. Although the debts run up by the Britcliffe administration were wiped out and the accounts brought back into a coherent order, there is still an uncomfortable amount outstanding from the council house building programmes of last century which all boroughs are still paying for. Some clever accounting has gone on in the past to try and reduce the interest but it is still being accrued and it would be better in my mind to get rid of it more quickly rather than fritter money away on pet projects.

Area Councils, whilst being sound in principle, cost Hyndburn in the region of £250,000 per year. For that money each ward gets three town meetings a year and a few thousand pounds to make improvements, something which is nigh on impossible with the funds available. One of my first tasks would be to refine that system and channel more money into the wards rather than administration.

The Market Hall is another bone of contention and something which is not run as it should be. Apart from the six day trading fiasco, profits from the market are propping up areas of the council itself, something which a public-owned asset should not do in my opinion. Ringfencing the market as a business in its own right and trimming the fat within the council to make each institution stand on its own two feet it would enable cuts to be made in line with government targets and also ease the burden on the traders by lowering rents to cover overheads instead of topping up HBC.

Too much money is frittered away in small amounts and it all needs to stop. The Cabinet Action Fund which has been increased to £100k this year lies within the control of one man for whatever he sees fit. Little votewinning cheques in The Accrington Observer of £500 here, £1,000 there, it all mounts up but it isn't distributed evenly throughout the borough. Rishton has had absolutely nothing.

There are too many committees, each with a chair on £1,500 extra per year per chairmanship, and I personally feel that it is far too much money simply for a councillor simply sitting at the head of a table during a handful of meetings so that would be trimmed right back.

The Floral Market Towns project had its budget increased by £115k this year for some towers in each ward but we're talking about a few Busy Lizzies and that's a lot of money. Those towers are expensive and should be handed over to Prospects who would do the same job for a fraction of the cost and be grateful for the new equipment.

I hope I've at least partly answered your question, Bernadette. I see waste everywhere and after a decade of running my mate's business accounts for him I have got very good at making economies with other people's money.

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You mean like scrapping the Works department when you were last in power, a Works department that had earned thousands of pounds from outside contracts and had many more orders in the pipeline, whilst maintaining the councils housing stock and public buildings, meaning that all contracts had to be tendered for by outside firms on a take it or leave it bases, when the Works department were working within the authority the money was kept in house for reinvestment

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John, you're off down the road of Labour's past mistakes again, something which I acknowledge and isn't in any way productive. I personally consider the sale of the Arndale Centre to be a mistake but it was way before my time and griping about it won't help.

I'm talking about the here and now and what can actually be done to improve the borough, identifying mistakes that really shouldn't be being made in the immediate future.

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Ya and I'm looking at what you did in the past with great trepidation, they say the Tiffany Glass is nice:rolleyes:

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What is the £250,000 spent on that would be saved if there were no Area Councils?

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Would Prospects use the flower towers and if so how would they keep them watered? I think watering them is a big cost for HBC.

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The basic principle of Area Councils is reasonable but the current structure seems fairly administration-heavy, with a further layer of administration proposed.

I would look at streamlining the system in a fairly major way in order to divert more money to the actual councils rather than propping up the machinery.

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The planters that Prospects work on in Rishton seem to work very well without any intervention from council watering teams so it may be more a question of looking at what is planted.

Prospects may not be at all interested in extra flower towers but from past experience in Rishton I doubt it.

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I have lived through governments led by Clem Attlee , Winston Churchill , Anthony Eden , Harold Macmillan , Sir Alec Douglas Home , Harold Wilson , Ted Heath , Jim Callaghan , Margaret Thatcher , John Major , Tony Blair , Gordon Brown , and David Cameron .

Take a hard look at them . ( I refer to Winston Churchill as a peace-time prime minister ) .
How many of them could we say were full of promise ?
How many made a lasting impact on our country ?

I can only name two , Clem Attlee and Margaret Thatcher . The former for the better , the latter for the worse . The rest were pretty mediocre .

I have little faith in what politicians can achieve .

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Crime rose every year since 1945 except under Michael 'prisons work' Howards time as Home Secretary in 1996.

Labour since 1997 has doubled the prison population (80,000 now) I believe and crime depending on which statistic you believe has been cut by 36% or 42%.

Controversial indefinite sentences and a raising of tariffs, along with more Police, PCSO's has returned crime to around 1972 levels.

The first post war government to cut crime.

The Councils share in the Arndale Centre (10%?) was sold to raise money for another project, the Globe Centre I believe by then Council Leader George Slynn.

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If there is one thing that all the parties are good at it's manipulating numbers to suit their needs. Just look at how they change and alter the criterior for what makes you jobless, Just being out of work might not necessarily mean you are unemployed. Commiting certain crimes might not make you a criminal. But it's what they will do to make them seem good and cling on to power.

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72 words where 3 will do. Crime has fallen.

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Well that may be true, is it not also true Violent Crime has risen?:confused:

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so has the population ,and other major factors.

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yeh like smacked hands n lesser sentences.;)

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There are lots of things not classed as crimes anymore that used to be, therfore the figures come down.

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If you live in cloud cuckcoo land maybe but as most of us live in the real world it is obvious to a fool that figures can and are manipulated:( No crime has not fallen, the way it is recorded may have been but then again it is all done for political gain:mad: But guess what? We aren't all as green as we're cabbage looking and the manipulated figures don't speak the truth to your average person on the street:(

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Thank you Bernadette. I suppose one day someone will ask a politician a question and get a straight answer, BUT i'm not holding my breath.:mad::mad::mad:. They have one agenda and thats their own.:dflam:

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The Globe Centre was mainly funded by Single Regeneration Bid Money, the first round, and European Regional Development Fund Money. It was essentially about job creation, which is why we got the funding. There was approximately 1000 jobs created at the Globe. We also saved that area in my opnion from becoming an environmental disaster.

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How many people are employed in the building today.

Anyone know?

Not making any particular point, just curious.

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I don't think that is actually true Bernard, maybe 1000 job places were created, Airtours moved there operation there, as did the housing Department of HBC (now Hyndburn Homes) Lancashire County Council also moved some staff there, these weren't new jobs just, jobs transferred from other places

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Its not that figure now. I'm not sure what the number of jobs is now there. Several companies who moved in at the start are not there now for one reason or another. But there's still quite a few jobs there

At the time it was all about job creation, and for a local authority the size of Hyndburn to be involved in creating that many jobs was quite an achievement.

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Thanks Bernard.

Just interested as to how many people are employed there now.

I know there were losses when Airtours were taken over, but then some call centre job (450?) were transferred from County Hall earlier this year.

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At the time I wasn't that bothered were they came from.What we needed in Accrington was jobs.Airtours created quite a few new jobs once they moved in.Hyndburn Homes didn't move in until much later.

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In your original statement you said 1000 new jobs were created which was not the truth, the majority were transfers from other areas or departments within Hyndburn, thats all I was pointing out

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The vast majority of the jobs came from outside of Hyndburn. In order to qualify for the funding we had to show that in the bidding document. There was a very very small percentage of jobs that can could from within Hyndburn. And it was small

We would not have got Single Regeneration Money or the European Funding, had we been just shifting jobs around in Hyndburn.

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I repeat what you said in your original post 1000 NEW JOBS WHERE CREATED

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They were new to Hyndburn. Companies paying business rates, people spending money in the town supporting local business's. Plus saving that area were the Globe is situated from being a derelict area. A good Labour Council in action. I thought you'd be impressed.

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I'd have been more impressed if they had spent as much time and effort on the town centre, instead of putting it on the road to rack and ruin, but off course the leaders business associates were involved in the Globe centre, so the tow centre had to take a back seat