Originally Posted by yerself (Post 861848)

Poor lad, seems he can't manage on his £65,000pa salary as an MP. Is he, as one comment on this article suggests, a back slapping class traitor?

East Lancashire MP requests an allowance for council work (From Lancashire Telegraph)

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 861854)

Looks like PB has taken a leaf out of Ken's book :D

Originally Posted by Ken Moss (Post 861878)

The same PB that asked for parachute payments for failed councillors then changed the minutes?

Peter earns around half of what Graham does but he doesn't hold weekly surgeries or do as much travelling, doesn't have to spend four nights a week away from his family and his cost of living won't be anywhere near that of an MP in London.

Smiling for the Observer five times a week and handing out cheques is a touch easier, I'd say.

Originally Posted by JCB (Post 861970)

Petty local party politics are at work again .

The people of Hyndburn deserve better .

Originally Posted by Ken Moss (Post 861878)

Peter earns around half of what Graham does but he doesn't hold weekly surgeries or do as much travelling, doesn't have to spend four nights a week away from his family and his cost of living won't be anywhere near that of an MP in London.

Originally Posted by Ken Moss (Post 861878)

The same PB that asked for parachute payments for failed councillors then changed the minutes?

Peter earns around half of what Graham does but he doesn't hold weekly surgeries or do as much travelling, doesn't have to spend four nights a week away from his family and his cost of living won't be anywhere near that of an MP in London.

Smiling for the Observer five times a week and handing out cheques is a touch easier, I'd say.

Originally Posted by jaysay

Although I have a lot of respect for Graham as our MP, I have never understood why he retained his County Council seat whilst serving in Parliament, I maybe wrong but I would think there are very few who have retained both posts in the past, to my way of thinking if your a member of parliament that job should take all your time and not be sidetracked with other issues

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 861990)

But ain't that the reason Graham wanted to be an MP travelling, staying away from home representing the people of Hyndburn and being paid accordingly

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 861988)

Graham should get up to £1,450 a month for somewhere to live in London. As far as I'm aware Peter doesn't get that.

Originally Posted by Ken Moss (Post 862009)

No, and perhaps as well. It wouldn't cover 9 days for the Leader of this Council:

Council makes a meal of rises - Accrington Observer

Graham must be roughing it by Britcliffe standards.

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 862013)

Peter has his free copy of my book.

How to live like a king, or queen in London, on a shoestring.

Originally Posted by Ken Moss (Post 862009)

No, and perhaps as well. It wouldn't cover 9 days for the Leader of this Council:

Council makes a meal of rises - Accrington Observer

Graham must be roughing it by Britcliffe standards.

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 862024)

Luckily Graham has a pass into Parliament and can get soup and a bun for £1.15. :D

Originally Posted by Ken Moss (Post 861975)

People are asking, rightly or wrongly, about how their own money is being spent by a politician in a political thread.

Avoid it if it offends you.

Originally Posted by JCB (Post 862027)

It annoys me that the people of Hyndburn are continually being subjected to a form of politics based on personalities rather than policies.

Originally Posted by JCB (Post 862027)

We need politics to be conducted in the spirit of the late Michael Foot , a man I admire very much .

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 862034)

Donkey jackets, and mubbled good intentions may have appealed to you, but judging from election results, didn't hold the same attraction with the rest of the country.

Historically it seems people like their leaders with a big personality, and even biger balls.

Originally Posted by Ken Moss (Post 862029)

I would ask you to expand on that please.

I have made no secret of my opposition to specific policies of the Hyndburn Conservatives and how I would have done things differently. How else would you have me conduct myself?

I am assuming that I am not the only councillor you are referring to but I am interested to know what you mean by personalities, as far as I can see the attacks come on our actions and not on our personas.

Possibly with one 'venerable' exception.

Originally Posted by Benipete (Post 862036)

So are you saying that if Labour had control of the Council you would vote against them if it contravened your beliefs,or am I to assume that you have them all under your thumb and they will tow your line.:confused:

Or will you take your place at the trough?;)


Ah well time may tell.:)

Oh and try and stay clear of them venerable exceptions,can be bad to clear up.:D:D

Originally Posted by Ken Moss (Post 862029)

I would ask you to expand on that please.

Originally Posted by JCB (Post 862039)

The opening quote on this thread with the article from the Telegraph is typical of what I am getting at .

Originally Posted by Ken Moss (Post 862005)

Yes, but even the commuting sounds like damned hard work before he even does a stroke.

.

Originally Posted by JCB (Post 861970)

Petty local party politics are at work again .

The people of Hyndburn deserve better .

Originally Posted by Benipete (Post 862142)

Perhaps more hinges on bye elections than meets the eye.Just a thought but I'm usually right.;)

Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 862145)

probably keepin his options open because the boundaries will be changing soon:)

Originally Posted by garinda

Historically it seems people like their leaders with a big personality, and even biger balls.

Originally Posted by yerself (Post 862204)

Germans being the exception if we are to believe the lyrics of a certain song.:)

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany (Post 862225)

He was an Austrian ;) As the Germans keep reminding me ! :D

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany

He was an Austrian

Originally Posted by yerself (Post 862231)

Correct. Was he or was he not leader of the Germans?;)

Originally Posted by Ken Moss (Post 862042)

Graham has given up his county allowances for at least five months as a gesture of good faith whilst other MPs in the same position have claimed as much as they can. He is now asking for a bit of financial help in order to do effectively fulfil the requirements of two senior positions.

On first reading it admittedly doesn't sound very good but just think it through again.

Originally Posted by g jones

Clearly if I did I would take no allowances, wouldn't need them. MPs spend 22 weeks in their constituency so can be done.

Originally Posted by andrew (Post 862242)

A gesture of good faith? Graham said he would step down as a County Councillor should be become elected. He wanted to stay on as a district councillor because people in his ward wanted him to stay on. I'm not quite sure why he changed his mind after he was elected and chose to stay on at County level where he would have to travel further to attend meetings.

Graham also said he wouldn't take allowances. There was no 'for 5 months' as far as I can see!



Could anyone explain what costs towards leaflets are? Seems odd that the County Council would take money out of Councillors allowances to pay for Council leaflets?

Originally Posted by jaysay

I heard he was a misguided painter:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob (Post 862388)

Sounds like Graham not only needs a good language coach but could use the services of a spin doctor too.

I'm still available for hire by the way.

Originally Posted by Ken Moss (Post 862042)

I'm sorry but I still don't see how a story about expenses classes as personality rather than politics.

Graham has given up his county allowances for at least five months as a gesture of good faith whilst other MPs in the same position have claimed as much as they can. He is now asking for a bit of financial help in order to do effectively fulfil the requirements of two senior positions.

On first reading it admittedly doesn't sound very good but just think it through again.

Where does his personality come into it?

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob

Graham not only needs a good language coach

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob

It is a bit marred

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob

it is a bit politically naieve

Originally Posted by JCB (Post 862400)

I would prefer a non-party political Council , made up of independent minded people who run the Council in a non-party way . There is no great divide between the parties locally . Even nationally the divide is small . The Liberal Democrats , for example , have sunk their differences with the Conservatives to form a coalition . Labour were at one point close to doing it with the Liberals.

Originally Posted by Ken Moss (Post 862600)

The only possible way around it is if the whole council was either Labour or Conservative and even then it is highly likely that there would be some degree of in-fighting, if not publicly then behind closed doors.

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany (Post 872050)

Just a little something read today. ;) Let's see what the Brotherhood have to say about this one. :)

Margaret Thatcher warned MPs over expenses - Telegraph

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 872051)

Would appear she was absolutely right Dave;)

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 872075)

yep funny how she deplored the commons decision, yet did sod all about it.:rolleyes: in fact was only last year when the crap hit the fan.:(

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 872114)

Like everything in the big house it has to be voted on and if its passed sod all any one person can do about it;)

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 872126)

Voted on or not i can't recall her asking fer one?:rolleyes: can you?

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 872075)

yep funny how she deplored the commons decision, yet did sod all about it.:rolleyes: in fact was only last year when the crap hit the fan.:(

Originally Posted by JCB (Post 872153)

Very true according to what the Telegraph reports .

Originally Posted by JCB (Post 862400)

I refer you to Graham's quote ( number 29 ) on this thread , particularly to his first and next to the last sentences .

As I read these sentences I get the impression that he is saying that those responsible for the Telegraph article were out to discredit him by using the expenses issue . I may be misinterpreting his words , because that is how I understood the article when I first read it . It is an attempt to cast him in a bad light . That is a personal matter , and is aimed at Graham's personal integrity rather than his actions which are perfectly legitimate and above board .

What criticism I have is for those who are behind the article , and are using it in a petty way for party political gain .

Those with better knowledge than me of the history of Hyndburn politics will say that it is the sort of thing all parties get up to .

.

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 872205)

The article picked up on a few misleading statistics and weaved a negative story around them. All the genuine stuff was left out. It's inclusion would have destroyed the credibility of the story.

It wasn't personal. Newspapers get a good hook out of telling people expenses stories because there have been huge scandals.

Eg Andrew Stephenson is a young single man who slept on his mates sofa. I have a young family and know no-one in London so claimed the rent allowance. Standing MPs are still on the old cheaper mortgage system and don't claim (expensive) rent.

London MPs and MPs in the South East can't claim rent allowances.

Some MPs have either been slow or inefficient in claims or don't bother providing constituency staff or a constituency office. Hyndburn office by all accounts is one of the best in the country. My first quarter submissions for such were always going to be up to date and ahead of others.

Pensioner MPs getting rail discounts and travelling first class yet having lower expense claims because of their age.

Rather than it be the positive it is. Efficient and comprehensive with no one 'on the take', it was portrayed as a fiddling story based on the headline totals being put in a league table of shame.

Left out of the story was;
All food paid for by myself
All travel around East Lancashire paid for by myself
Most train travel second class off peak.
Volunteering by people in the constituency office
Efficient first quarter claims
Northern MPs facing extra costs
New MPs facing significantly higher costs.
Working age MPs facing higher charges
MPs with young families facing greater burdens

I expect criticism and i have always done what I believe is right and in the public interest and I am proud that we have more than played by tight new rules. We have made every effort to bare the cost and treat every penny with respect at the same time as upping the service to the public here.

I accept the media have a job to do and that some people conveniently shoot from the hip. I accept all of that and it comes with the job. All I can do is point out the facts.

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 872204)

On the point of all being the same I have to say the gulf inn ideas between Labour and Conservative in Hyndburn is huge.

Originally Posted by Lancashire Lassie (Post 873588)

how they expect us to survive il never know!

Originally Posted by yerself (Post 873629)

At least our MP won't have to pay London prices for a wash and brush-up any more. He can go here: Men-only beauty salon opens in Rishton (From Lancashire Telegraph). Bet Ken's already been for a polish. :D:D

Originally Posted by Ken Moss (Post 873625)

In view of what an MP actually does for their community compared with the remuneration they get I'll assume that there's a confusion between 'MP' and 'Minister' for some of you. The salary may sound like a lot but when you actually work out the hours that are put in by the decent ones it isn't actually the big trough that people perceive it to be.

I've watched Graham for some time running from pillar to post trying to help residents, hold surgeries and conduct party business at the same time. It's a wonder that he's still upright, I certainly couldn't keep that pace up and look after a family as well but he does everything exceptionally well.

In Hyndburn at least we should be grateful for what we've got. It could have been MUCH worse.

Originally Posted by jaysay

think we've been rather lucky in Hyndburn over the years

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 873665)

Tend to agree there Ken, in fact since I got involved in politics we've had 4 MPs Aurthur Davidson Ken Hargreaves, Greg Pope, and now Graham has taken on the mantle, think we've been rather lucky in Hyndburn over the years

Originally Posted by yerself (Post 873669)

I agree jaysay, no matter where your political allegiance lies we have benefited from some good MPs over the years. How would you rate them?

Originally Posted by yerself (Post 873669)

I agree jaysay, no matter where your political allegiance lies we have benefited from some good MPs over the years. How would you rate them?

Ken Hargreaves. 1
Arthur Davidson. 2
Greg Pope (a very distant) 3
Graham Jones, too early to pass a judgement but early signs encouraging.

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 873665)

Tend to agree there Ken, in fact since I got involved in politics we've had 4 MPs Aurthur Davidson Ken Hargreaves, Greg Pope, and now Graham has taken on the mantle, think we've been rather lucky in Hyndburn over the years

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 873706)

If only you'd worked a little harder in the past, and been a little less sulky recently, you could have had Peter and Karen's name on that list.

;)

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris (Post 873932)

...and he'll only serve half, provided he keeps his nose clean, as he pleaded guilty. One rule for them... :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany (Post 875848)

If there was any doubt that they behave like pigs at the trough "Squeal lil' Piggy squeal !"

NewsNow: Loading story...

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 875854)

It says in the Sunday Times that one of those fingered for fiddlin' was a 'northern M.P.'

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany (Post 875860)

Probably to do with their grasp of geography ! Anywhere North of the Watford gap and ....... the great unknown ! Here be Northeners ! :D