1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

I have moved these posts from the News Of The World thread so as not to distract us from that topic. Some posts have been removed to avoid confusion - Neil



I'd be more concerned about the 1300 Bombadier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost than few journalists , seems this news has been eclipsed/swept under the carpet by this hackergate stuff :eek: :eek:

Re: Milly Dowler's mobile phone hacked!
 

It's been a major news story here, and the job losses have been mourned.

Though the general consensus seems to be, that although it's preferable British industry is supported, the government is obliged to use tax payers' money to secure the most competitive tender.

Re: Milly Dowler's mobile phone hacked!
 

think to my mind its being Penny wise and Pound foolish, think if you take into account how much the Govt. is going to be spending in long term Unemployment and other Benefits paid to the 1300 families plus the other other social costs .

Re: Milly Dowler's mobile phone hacked!
 

Maybe just maybe when the European act was signed up to, a little more consideration could have been taken looking into the rules and regulations all member states have to adhere to when tendering for these contracts, its not so cut and dried as you think SJ there is a lot of red tape to get round which isn't easy.

Re: Milly Dowler's mobile phone hacked!
 

What you say is correct, but UK plc is in deeply in the red.

Protectionism is something it just cannot afford to support.

Sure, we'd all love to buy only British, but if it's made a legal requirement to do so, we better say cheerio now, as we may be waiting rather a long time to access the internet on a British computer.

;)

Re: Milly Dowler's mobile phone hacked!
 

It's reported that 1,400 jobs will be lost in Derby, which amounts to nearly half the workforce. With over 400 of them being permanent posts. Siemens says it will bring 2,000 jobs to the UK, but only 300 of those will be the most valuable directly employed manufacturing jobs.

It is regretable, but there would probably been more of an outcry if taxes were spent on a contract that wasn't the most competitive.

Perhaps we should be asking why German firms are able to produce goods more cost effectively than we can in Britain.

Buy British needs to be about buying the best.

Both in quality, and value for money.

Re: Milly Dowler's mobile phone hacked!
 

Where should protectionism end?

If we were only allowed to wear clothes wholly manufactured in Britain, made of home grown materials, or eat only British grown food, most of us would soon die of hypothermia, or be left starving in the streets, queueing up for turnips.

Re: Milly Dowler's mobile phone hacked!
 

It does seem strange, if as you say German or French firms are able to produce goods more effectively than we can here in the UK.. seeing as British workers are amongst the lowest paid in Europe but the highest taxed it can't be workforce costs.. could it be the total lack of confidence and contempt this government have for British manufacturing?..maybe the "thatcher years" are back.

Re: Milly Dowler's mobile phone hacked!
 

Blimey, saw you were posting here, and expected a bit of sparring.

We agree!

We should be asking why another western European company is able to win this contract, and a British firm can't.

If it had been awarded to a third world country, we know they'd have undercut us on labour, and other manufacturing costs.

This issue needs addressing, so it hopefully won't happen again.

Re: Milly Dowler's mobile phone hacked!
 

I reckon you won't be holding your breath on that:rolleyes:.. we had big talk pre-election by Cameron and co about how Britian would come first in this sort of business and how they would rejuvenate the economy with jobs for British workers if they were elected..sadly it was all a con and I don't think things will change.:(:(:(

Re: Milly Dowler's mobile phone hacked!
 

wonder if the german company is subsidized? perhaps Dave will know?

Re: Milly Dowler's mobile phone hacked!
 

Perhaps the national adjuncts are a question here? We don't stop other nations bidding against us, but we don' t bid against them. Their bids are supported and financialy backed by their governments against EU rules. shouldn't we now do the same?

Re: Milly Dowler's mobile phone hacked!
 

I doubt they are subsidised but they ain't as stupid as we are.. if a massive tender goes out to build transport links or any public funded enterprise they give the contract to home companies simple as that.
It's amazing that Thames water, BP, and almost every other company once owned by the British public but sold has ended up in foreign hands.and you can tell "Sid" that selling British Gas was a bad idea :eek:

Re: Milly Dowler's mobile phone hacked!
 

Better still, do as every other nation appears to do.

Stick two fingers up at EU rules.

Even better, use those two fingers to wave adios.

http://www.edinburgh8ball.com/images...y/2fingers.gif

Re: Milly Dowler's mobile phone hacked!
 

I think you will find that the German government subsidises its industry.
We have a lot of German equipment where I work, when things took a turn for the worse for them their government stepped in helped them out. They are a major employer in their region and the loss of the company would have been devastating. This is what I was told from German engineers I was working with at the time.

That is what our government should be doing instead of giving aid to nuclear powers spending millions on space flight :(

re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

We’ve always been uncompetitive with our pricing because we pay people to have a couple of tea breaks per day plus time for wash & brush ups at the end of each shift. Germany on the other hand only pay for the time spent working on the job and when they take a break their machine tools are taken over by other workers whereas British machine tools are idle. Their method of working means they are quicker completing contracts, the only way we equal their delivery times is if we take on extra workers and pay them to have tea breaks too.

re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

Probably working practices left over from World War II, when they employed slave labour.

;):D

re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

I think that is a bit of a generalisation, places I have worked in ran 24 hours a day and did not stop machines for breaks. You need more staff to cover breaks so have to pay more wages so you have to balance the two out

re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

Wages aren't necessarily better in comparison, but German industry tends to be efficient, with many firms running 24 hours so therefore employing 3 shifts of workers. This leads to a greater number of people employed, more spending power leads to more sale, which leads to more production !

The German government in this respect have for many years past & present supported their industries (be that subsidies or tax/ legislation breaks) as they realize that a good economy is vital for the well being of the Country & its people. Therefore they're always looking forward, adapting & modernising Industry to remain competitive, unlike the UK who on many occasions found themselves constrained by rules, regulations & over empowered unions, also the fact that the unemployed process in Germany is far stricter & a less viable option which discourages people from making it an option.

Flexibility is also a great asset in German Industrial & production workers, starting work at 5 A.M. is seen by many as the norm (not me mind) & the working of long & arduous hours without any special remuneration, also the rate of people on sick leave is significantly pertinent, if someone is seen as malingering the rules on dismissal are quite clear & they can be replaced without the hooha you'd find kicked up by British unions, this then discourages would be sick lame & lazy & makes them think twice before trying to pull a flanker.

These are just a few of the reasons why the German economy/industry is as highly rated as it is as opposed to the poor showing by British firms.

re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

On the BBC iplayer, there is a rather informative program called' made in Britian' presented by Evan Davis. It has two days left, far from not manufacturing it does go to explain why the third world make lots of our low priced goods while the majority of Manufacturing in Britian is of the high end technological stuff, I had no idea we still made as much as we do.
All that said, with the exception of the Wardrobes, bedroom furnitue and lounge suite, the vast majority of the things we own are made abroad.

re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

Aye, I've been watching it & it really is quite interesting. I noticed earlier that your man C'mon, was going to make a reply, but it never materialized :confused: Probably as he couldn't justify shoving the blame & losses on the accursed Tories ! :eek: ;)

re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

A bit long winded Dave.. you could have just said British workers are lazy, skiving malingerers run by fat cat union leaders..the same view of your countrymen and women that Thatcher had..I'm sure she is very proud of you.:)

re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

Your words not mine Mancie ! ;) What I wrote was an explanation of the disparity between the British & German economies plus some of the underlying reasons for the different rates of success within the two economies when viewed at a comparative level.

Germany sits within the middle of Europe & is surrounded by Countries on all sides. That being the case they have to be constantly looking to see what the neighbours are doing so that they remain competitive or people will simply nip across to another Country to pick up their goods, it really is that simple.

Now UK being an Island & insular the people don't have the options of just nipping over the border so the British are left with a take it or leave it option, this has helped lead to the state of affairs that UK finds itself in today. without constant pressure to keep up & be aware of change they've trailed along behind other nations who are constantly on watch & continually tweaking & improving, (quite pertinent & relevant actually when you look at the Industrial decline of Lancashire & Yorkshire) again quite simple really.

So before you attempt to put words into my mouth to suit your purposes, think long & hard about your response & do try to remain within a framework of truth & facts please. :)

re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

dont think british workers are lazy the reason why british companies dont get contracts because previous goverments all the way abck to thatcher didnt give consistent support for manufacturing like succesive german goverments have,they have subsidies or invested in manufacturing companies like the motor trade while britain has declined .germany kept all its research centres open not like britain who slashed them in the early nineties.The stock market and private equity is not as important in Germany as it has been in the US and the UK and a large element of the corporate funding required in Germany is delivered through the banking system which means more money is invested in the company than go to the shareholder German employees enjoy a high rate of pay and a high level of job security which seems to be part of the national culture. In times of stress German companies will try to use work-sharing (kuzarbeit) rather than making significant job cuts which in turn helps maintain loyalty and all important skills within the workforce. Union influence is still significant within the private sector in Germany and in larger companies half of all seats on supervisory boards are reserved for employee representatives - and through this the workforce enjoys considerable veto power. However, the workforce appears to exercise their power responsibly and have been a key part of the success of the sector.so there goes your myth of the lazy british worker as most companies now use agency staff which does,nt exactly motivate the workers.It is no wonder that the current UK government (and to be fair the last government) has concluded that having a strong manufacturing sector is a good idea. The manufacturing framework concept gave the Government a great opportunity to clearly establish its support for the sector and give guidance on how it would provide the framework to help support the long term success of UK manufacturing. Therefore the delay and cancellation of the manufacturing framework was a disappointment.Developing the UK manufacturing sector in future years will not be easy and many commentators consider that the damage of the last 50 years has been too deep to reverse, particularly in the face of ever increasing competition. Unfortunately this may be true. But we must be able to build on the excellent companies and skills that we have in UK manufacturing to maintain a vibrant sector that has a key role in the UK economy and what might end up being a niche place in the world manufacturing economy. In my view this will mean that government understands that it does have an important role to play in establishing a framework for the success of manufacturing in the UK, sending manufacturing orders abroad doesnt help.

re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

Cheer up Cmon, it's not all doom and gloom you know. The UK is the sixth largest manufacturing nation in the world, ahead of France. The USA is first followed by China, Japan, Germany and Italy then us. It is therefore vital that we keep ahead of the pack, our motorsport, aerospace And even automobiles are world class.. One of the biggest problems we have had over the years was a lack of investment and modernisation, of course the more you automate the more people you can make redundant. Sad but true. Looking at the British motor industry today we have giants bringing money into the UK, Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Land Rover BMW, Volkswagen even the Chinese are here in strength with the reintroduction of the MG. We are world class in what we produce, but let us remember that for some goods we can never ever compete on price, clothing for example.

re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

this the best time to make quality clothing as the price of cotton is through the roof as fuel is just need more sheep:D

re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

Good Grief C'mon !!!! :eek: Not copied & pasted ??? And quite coherent & formulated !!! Well booger me !!! Well done you !

But again you, the same as Mancie are attempting (& failing) to put words into my mouth ! Please read my comments again carefully, at no point did I or have I said that British employers are lazy. In fact, there is, as we are constantly told a highly skilled British workforce just waiting to be gainfully employed, but this falls down due to the fact that the workplace options have been seriously curtailed over the years.

As to the rates of pay, no, unlike UK Germany doesn't have a minimum wage as such, different trades & their associated unions have agreed set wages for particular forms of work, but there is still a class of cheap unskilled labour within the German marketplace. Many companies & small businesses haven't signed up to tariff agreements & will pay their labourers/cleaners/staff below any set level, but people will accept these hardships if only to put some money in their pockets & to remain within employment as the German "welfare system" is far more draconian & severely less lavish than that within the UK.

re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

another point is most british based companies are now owned by foriegn investment companies who have no interest in social cohesian;)

re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

Does it really matter who owns Land Rover, if it is profitable? Keeping jobs in the UK? Seems like a lot of money is being spent there, keeping it in the British economy.
Maybe you would prefer it if all companies were nationalised.

re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

Out of interest, do you buy everything British?

re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

Aye C'mon ! We've been there, seen that, read the book & got the T-Shirt ! :D Aye, the Socialist idyll, a land of milk & honey, free beer for all & we're all equals, brothers & sisters united, until it comes to emptying the she-ite pit out ! Or doing some hard manual graft ! Then the truth comes out, there will always be a divided society no matter how much it may be wished otherwise.

If Socialism is such a perfect & wonderful condition why aren't there any democracies pursuing this option ? I ask you, can you name me a truly happy & functioning Socialist Country that works ? Bearing in mind the above comments. I think you'd be hard pushed. :rolleyes:

re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

Bloody hell where did you cut and paste that from:rolleyes:

Re: 1300 Bombardier (UK's last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

He find some to cut and paste Dave, he sure as hell ain't got the nous to think of it all by his lonesome

re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

thats what went wrong the shareholder taking the profit the bare minimium being invested back into these companies so falling behind the technology of the big hitters.only we have been playing catchup for years.you would be surprised how much public money that has been payed into the private sector to keep these jobs in britain Nissan invests 223m to build new car in Britain - Telegraph

Re: 1300 Bombardier (UK's last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

You talk a load of crap, when we had industry to be proud of they were always being dragged out on bloody stick by the communist trade union leaders who were more interested in bringing down the government than anything else

re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

ha ha ha you cant hide the truth all started with globalisation when the shareholder got greedy moving british jobs abroad did they not know for their products to sell the general public needed money and jobs for them to buy their products.as we are seeing now with high food,fuel,product prices , high unemploymen and lack of cash in the economy nobody is going to buy their products maybe the penny will finally drop;)

re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

It cannot have been cut and pasted, there were no paragraphs...it was just a huge chunk of text...which, if I am truthful, puts me(and I would guess, other people) off reading it.

Had it had paragraphs, capital letters and punctuation ,then I am sure it would have been easier to read.
OK, I know that this is a forum and not an English lesson.
To get a point across it has to be put into ways that will make it easier to read....and therefore, understand.

re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

We exported jobs when we sent mill equipment to countries that could produce cotton goods at a fraction of the cost.....and then we wondered why no-one was buying what we produced.
Confidence in our ability to manufacture to a deadline was also compromised by the actions of the militant unions. OK, that was in the dim and distant past, but once the rot sets in it is a hard job to stop it.

It is really difficult to buy British made goods........maybe it is because the companies that make stuff do a poor job of promoting their products...or it may be that the products are too expensive....or it may be that they aren't up to scratch.

Other countries like China(it used to be Hong Kong or Taiwan) can produce goods much more cheaply....so the edge of competitiveness of British made stuff is lost...and this stuff has to be transported here and duty paid on it...and it is still cheaper.

I do think that Britain is the only country in the EU who sticks to the regulations...and these regulations regarding protectionism do us no favours.

re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

this tells a little story ;) Siemens, which beat Bombardier to the Thameslink rolling stock contract, is now trying to hire its staff, according to the Unite union.

The union said Siemens wants the UK train maker’s procurement and sales staff, as well as Bombardier’s bogies.

Siemens said it was not aware of any approach being made, but insiders at Bombardier told The Sun newspaper that recruitment agencies had been in touch on Siemens' behalf.

Mark Young, regional co-ordinating officer at the Unite union, said the move “beggared belief” and told the newspaper: “One of the senior HR guys told us the company had contacted them and asked if they had any bilingual procurement staff as they had a problem with English speakers.

“It's unbelievable. The question has to be asked, if they haven't got the skills and abilities in the first place how did they win the contract?”

Earlier this week bosses at Bombardier, based in Canada but with substantial facilities at Derby, announced plans to axe 1,429 jobs at the factory after losing out on the valuable contract – which could have a knock-on effect on its future ability to win major contracts.

Transport Secretary Philip Hammond has agreed to meet unions to discuss the situation next week.

re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

whilst that is true,tis a vicious circle, someone else would have supplied em if we hadn't, similar to a weapons embargo, some sod always provides em wi arms.:(

re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

or they would be armless:D:D

re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

at least have the decency to post the link where you lifted the above from
Vorsprung durch manufacturing - what can the UK learn from Germany? - Tom Lawton - BDO

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

Yet despite all of the above, we are still the SIXTH LARGEST MANUFACTURER in the world. And are world class in what we do.
Just incase you all missed it

re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

That's better.

re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

Cashy, that might be so....but I am sure the machines were bought at rock bottom prices....to buy them elsewhere these countries would have had to splash out on new stuff.....and pay market prices.
But hey, these sales were counted as Exports and GB was big on exports at the time.

During the late 60's I worked for a textile firm and they closed down their weaving and spinning operations and took them to South Africa......the machinery was dismantled and shipped out to a purpose built weaving shed in SA.
The majority of us were left jobless...just a handful of young men went out to SA to oversee the start up of the new enterprise.

So the rot started a good long time ago.

re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

I am sure that you have evidence to support your claims BG...but if that is the case, why don't we see more goods with a union flag and a MADE IN ENGLAND logo proudly displayed?

A few years ago, when we were in Australia, we saw signs over factories which said 'Proud to be Australian' 'Proud Australians buy Australia Made goods' 'Don't export Australian jobs by buying foreign goods'........and you could find Australian made goods in the shops because they displayed the national flag prominently.

re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

C'mon, can you do us a favour? if you have to cut and paste can you please not do it from a discredited rag like the Sun?

It's offensive to quite a lot of Accywebbers who regard Murdoch and News International as the lowest of the low. I thought you did, too, but obviously only when it suits you. :rolleyes:

re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

Give him a break.

It must have took a lot of effort to remove all the punctuation, and capital letters, and space it so it appeared as a beautiful dense pattern.

:rofl38:

re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

I her you Margaret, but there are lots of British manufactured goods around.
Have you been in a car recently, the chances are the drive shafts were made in the midlands by GKN, Been on a plane on holiday, if its a Airbus, we made the wings, if Boeing it's a good chance the engine was made by Roll Royce in Derby or Barnoldswick. Had a soft drink recently, good chance it's British. Even The Japanese build here, Nissan, toyota and Honda all have big factories.
Maybe we don't like shouting it out anymore.
The UK Motor industry, far from being dead is thriving, albeit some under foreign control, but there are lots of small manufactures of specialist vehicles. We also manufacture world class Military vehicles and aircraft that are world beating. I could go on, but they are out there. I just found this site.
http://www.buybritish.co.uk/#

re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

Thanks BG......Yes, you are right about the components........I wasn't thinking of components and perhaps I should have been.
I was thinking more of the kind of stuff that we need to furnish and equip our homes.
I think you are right about us not promoting the goods we manufacture a bit more loud and proud.

I would like to see everything that has some British input, whether that be the research and development, or the manufacture of the goods, bearing a union flag.

re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

Maybe the UK should be a little bit more like France and be a bit more protective about domestic industries ,one example , seem to remember that France has a law that says a minimum of 60% of all tv programs aired have to be produced in France as a way of protecting French jobs.
Also a fact , when Rupert Murdoch moved into the US media market he was required to have US citizenship before he was allowed ownership of any media (newspapers and TV stations) .
The idea that any 'key' industry can be foreign controlled is totally wrong, examples are power, water, steel, telecoms,transport , leads to a loss of national sovereignty ;)

re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

Maybe, but we still manufacture more than France

re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

if told i you i pasted some of it you would have complained but i did add some of it but it just proves a point as i was stating in this thread http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...p-57436-2.html this just proves the point i was getting to;)

re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

i never moved any punctation and it was from the daily telegraph a proven to tory newspaper whose editor doesnt like cameron;)

re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

How does it prove that point?

Don't you find it easier to read and digest posts that are put into paragraphs...?

re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

I hate the Americanisation of Britain.

I'd happily support a cultural boycott.

Bye.

You're going on ignore.

:D

re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

And I always thought Bombardier was a Canadian Company:confused:

re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

Cmon, you might try to ignore my post's, but I fail to see any point you have.
Let me repeat for you, BRITIAN, IS THE 6TH LARGEST MANUFACTURING COUNTRY IN THE WORLD. Now could you please explain what your problem is?

re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

Thought as much:D

re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

No point G he never says anything himself, if theres more than half a dozen words its been cut and pasted:D

re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

Give him time BG his search engine is working overtime up yon over the boarder:D

Re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

yes we are but what is the biggest export yes youve got it the arms industry add oil ,whiskey and pharmaceuticals but we still need to strive for more to get people off the dole unless you think it is acceptable to have 3 million plus out of work.my point is you cant run an economy with no money and cutting jobs which is the tories answer with no plan b look at the german companies they were still employing people in their recession and they were the first ones out in the western world.

Re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

There are people on the dole because they don't want to work(I am not saying all of those on the dole are like this...but some are)....and of course it doesn't make sense to have 3 million people on the dole........they should be working,paying taxes...contributing to the wealth of the country, helping to pay the debts incurred by the last government.
Where are these jobs in manufacturing? Have the unemployed got the appropriate skills to do the jobs that are out there?

Maybe the German manufacturing base is different. While you might like to comapare Germany and its economy the the British one, what evidence have you to suggest the economies are comaparable?

Re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

And in your wisdom Margaret what sort of percentage of those 3 million do you think chose to live on £65 per week rather than work?...I don't think the Tory government of the 80's lost to much sleep over the then 3.5 million..a figure that almost seems a target for this government in thier current de-employment scheme. :rolleyes:

Re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

They don't live on the quoted £65 a week, they claim other benefits......Housing benefit, child tax credits......there are a whole raft of them which encourage the idle to sit at home and watch daytime TV........they will tell you it isn't worth their while to go out to work because they will lose these benefits.

I don't know whether the Tory government of the 80's lost any sleep over the unemployment figures...and really it is irrelevant. It doesn't alter what is happening in the here and now.

Re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

Well let's see, in order to create jobs, as there is no point lamenting the past, we need to encourage enterprise. This means lower taxes, cut red tape, maybe even lower the minimum wage. In Germany, it has be quoted on here that the workers are prepared to take a pay cut so more people can keep there jobs.
But what do I know, I used to run a business years ago, my partner used to have a business and both my sister in law and her partner have small businesses and employ people.
The problem with a lot of socialists is that if you work hard, employ people, make money and spend it on some luxuries, as is your right, then you are a capitalist scum.
I see both yourself and Mancie are our resident socialists.

If you are so clever, instead of copying and pasting what you read in socialist worker, Scottish edition, why don't YOU explain to us what YOU think we should all do to get rid of unemployment in the UK.

Re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

I forgot to add, less unionised labour also helps

Re: 1300 Bombardier (UK's last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

Ya if that had applied in the 60s and 70s BG, we might just have had a thriving car and ship building industry ;)

Re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

Still waiting for greatness to appear here

Re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

behold behold greatness has just past you:D

Re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

even smart arses have great cracks in 'em.

Re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

Butlordandmasteryouhavenotgivenusaanswertoourprobl ems?????

Written in the style of pure genius........well it's pure something anyway

Re: 1300 Bombardier (UK's last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

Not to worry BG he's probably run out of links from the Guardian;)

Re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

its too late for an answer to our problems ,we should have kept british gas nationalised so we could have controlled our destiny instead of the shareholder controlling our destiny and all our profits;)look at norway they kept their nationalised and they have the highest standard of living in europe.

Re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

OMG so the only thing we could do, is to have kept British Gas, shortened to BG, in the governments hands.
My site name is Boeing Guy, shortened to BG, this is because I get to fly a Boeing 737, that's a flying machine, I know it's sounds crazy that man can fly, but he can.
I think you need to go back to the crayons...... I rest my case

Re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

Also, let us not forget the British Gas did not own all the gas field around the UK anyway. Still never mind, why let realism get in the way of your fantasy world.

Re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

There's an interesting little post-script to this story.

Some of you may be aware that a couple of weeks ago, the Peking(Bejing)-Shangai express opened..a 200mph job to whisk our intrepid Chinese entrepreneurs from one centre of power to another, designed and built in three years flat.

There's two problems. Firstly, it's already falling apart - both track and rolling stock.

Secondly, because the Chinkys were in such a hurry to build the rolling stock they couldn't be messed around designing from scratch, so - no doubt with the connivence of Mr Murdoch's boys - they simply hacked into the design office of a certain German train manufacturer and nicked their plans. That company is now in the process of legal action against the Chinese government.

Yep, the train manufacturer is Siemens. So we could end up with losing British jobs at great expense and a crock of German chite that simply does not work.

Re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

yes it would have been, check out norway. with the profits ,control of economy,ie controlling inflation giving companies discounts with the more the exports the cheaper their energy would be for the good of the country the politicians keep on bleating about we could have been the 3rd top exporter in the world with high youth employment not unemployment youd be a fool to deny this.we could have been investing in alternative energy so we wouldnt be a slave to oil barons by sending british soldiers to foriegn lands .it could have been so different.

Re: 1300 Bombardier (UK's last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

If I remember rightly wasn't Tony or was it Gordon who sent the troops at the behest of gorgeous George to help with his quest for oil;)

Re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

Would be nice, but I have some of Siemens appliances, they are world class. I have come across equipment they have made all over the world and jet again it is well built.
However I used to work out of Casablanca international airport in Morocco. I was there when terminal 2 opened to big fanfare and brand new Chinese built jetways or air bridges as they are known. These were White and gleaming, one of the installers/engineers told me they we based on a American Design. Less than two years later, these same air bridges were falling apart and almost all had stopped working.
Part of the problem is this, the Chinese copy everything, this iPad I am writing this response on has been copied, the copies are cheaper because the Chinese copies use inferior parts and therefore they break with not much use. The same was true if the air bridges, they were not paticually well built. I have no doubt if the Germans build it then the train will be built well, with quality parts. Much like everything from Germany.

Re: 1300 Bombardier (UK's last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

So long as they don't keep the combination for the lock in the suitcase BG:D

Re: 1300 Bombardier (UK's last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

whoever sent the troops tories in the first gulf war or labour into iraq and afghanastan maybe libya is wrong and could have been avoided if the oil fields were nationalised.

Re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

yep and they are trying to poach staff and parts from bombardier and god knows what else Railway News | Rail News | Railway Jobs | Rail Jobs | Railway Exhibitions | Railway Magazines | News Library | Article

Re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

First you say:
Then you sayNow let's get this clear Gas and Oil are different.
You forget to add conveniently I add the Norway Has a 36% basic personal tax.

But let us not confuse the issue, you have never, ever oncer answered anybodies question instead you just change the subject.
This proves the fact that you are incapable of having a reasoned discussion and therefore are no longer worthy of my time.
You already missed my obvious sarcasm earlier tonight.

Re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

Gulf war 1 was to oust a dictator who had invaded a sovereign county.
They are allies of ours was well, much what we did in the First and Second world war.
Gulf war 2, well that was a bigger scandal than anything News International could come up with.

Re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

Just a few points:

1) This was/is a PFI style contract.

2) That involved not just design and build the trains, but also finance and maintain over a 30-year life cycle.

3) That meant the Frog-Kanuks had to have lot's of dosh up front to pay for the initial design-build phase.

4) Which means they have to borrow from the banks

5) But the banks won't lend 'em 'owt, because their balance sheet ain't worth a case of tinned dog turd.

6) Which means they were screwed from day 1 in the bidding process.

7) Which in turn means that if the Labour government had at the time had got their act togeather and put the tender documentation right, none of this nonsense would have arisen in the first place.

Re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

Very well said

Re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

I do wish you would learn to punctuate and paragraph your reponses.......your posts make very little sense in the first place, but even less sense without punctuation.

Re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

He cannot do thar Margaret, he went to one of Maggies secondary schools!!!!

Re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

Yes Mr T....well said, and in a format that even the dumbest should(that being the operative word) be able to comprehend.

Re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

:rofl38:Even though the only comprehensible sentence in the whole statement was the last one! :D

Re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

do you mean point Number 7 Mancie?
I can understand what Tealeaf says...all of it, every word...which is more than can be said for some posters on here(and No I am not referring to you).

I think this is probably the first time I have agreed, or come close to agreeing with something that Tealeaf has posted.

Re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

Must be me..what are "Frog Kanuks"?

Re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

number 5 is rubbish as bombardier uk parent company is worth billions;)

Re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

French Canadians, I believe, Eric can confirm it when he tips too.

Re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

it is ironic that derby is twinned with osnabruck of germany..

Re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

Yeah.. I didn't know they were involved in the tendering proccess ..but Mrs P obviously did :D

Re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

Yes you are right Mancie...it must be you!
I don't put all in the window, that I have in the shop.

Re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

Why exactly ? Osnabrück is just down the road from us here in Bramsche which incidentally is twinned with Todmorden.

Re: 1300 Bombardier (UKs last Railway stock producer) jobs being lost
 

Thats fair enough..as long as you know what Tealeaf is on about it gives me hope.. looking forward to you translatiing his posts in the future.. maybe you can translate his last one because you are the only one seems to have understood it! :D