The Todmorden Curve
 

I notice that today's O/L edition of the Accy Observer headlines the news about the reinstatement of the of the Todmorden Curve. Notwithstanding the stuff about the creation of an additional 1000 jobs (where did they get this figure from?) and the fact that it is a little sop by Clegg to the Lib-Dem constituency of Burnley and the Tory constituency of Pendle, I have a simple question.

Where exactly will the trains going to Manchester start and terminate coming from Manchester?

Re: accrington railway bridge
 

Victoria, I would imagine.

Re: accrington railway bridge
 

Err...the other end, Wyn.

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Oh right, sorry, Mr T! I would've thought they'd go through to Blackpool, as many services do now.

Re: accrington railway bridge
 

I think the Manchester end will be Piccadilly, as far as i remember about the only thing coming north now from Victoria is the tram to Bury.
Could be wrong though. :D

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Nope, the Clitheroe/Blackburn service still terminates at Victoria.

Re: accrington railway bridge
 

The problem is Wyn, that there are already trains running direct from Blackpool to Manchester, via Preston; there are also additional trains running from Preston to Manchester and of course, there are trains from Clitheroe/Blackburn running to Manchester. So what will be the business case for putting on additional services to go via Accrington and Todmorden to Manchester?

I can't see a terminal/start point at Accrington - there is no room, unless we knock down Tesco to build a new platform and I can't see trains starting from Colne (unless they build/rebuild(?) a curve between Rose Grove & Hapton to link up with the Hebden Bridge line, which then takes Accy out the equation – unless you’re prepared to change at Burnley Manchester Rd. Add on the waiting time for that, and it’s going to be a lot quicker by the existing bus service, the X41. So what about the people in Burnley/Nelson/Colne? They’ll need to get to BMrd – so it may be quicker for them to use their bus service X43.

In addition, the cost quoted is simply the construction costs of reinstating the curve. The train operating companies have to provide (either purchase or lease) the rolling stock and they’re not going to do that unless they can be sure of getting a return. I just don’t see that this has been properly thought through, other than as an electoral bribe to the people of Burnley/Colne and possibly Accy

The Todmorden Curve
 

I notice that Network Rail and the Government have agreed to the reopening of the railway between Burnley And Todmorden, cutting journey times to Manchester. Our MP, The council and Lancs CC, are all hailing this development as a boost to the local economy and predict 1000 extra jobs within a decade.

What do members think; Is it the best news we've had in yonks, or is it the usual too little too late?

Re: The Todmorden Curve
 

Think it might just be too little, too late.
Hope I am wrong(I usually am) but that is my feeling.

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agreed, considering it should never have been closed in the first place and secondly the cost of travel. Can't see many people jumping on the morning commute wagon

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Looking at the map, is it really any quicker from accy to manchester going via Todmorden than it is to go via Blackburn. There doesn't appear to be a lot of difference.

Re: The Todmorden Curve
 

As requested I have moved some posts on this subject that was already being discussed in another thread

Re: accrington railway bridge
 

Hmmm...I see what you mean. I'll be watching future developments with interest.

From a purely selfish point of view, I hope it does happen. It'll be much easier to get home after night matches!

Re: The Todmorden Curve
 

The headline about the jobs, created by the spinmeisters at Lancashire County Council, made me smile too.

Is there any evidence that '1,000 jobs could be created in the area, within the next ten years'?

Or is it a figure plucked from mid air?

I suppose how they define the 'area' matters.

Is it a ten mile radius from every stop along the length of the line?

Laughable spin aside, it can only be good new for the area. Having a direct journey to the biggest city in the north west.

Choo-choo.

:)

Re: The Todmorden Curve
 

Well, when Turkey's finally admitted to the E.U., it'll be nice if we have a 1,000 new jobs here, to welcome them to the area.

You've got to be hospitable.

Fair's fair.

Re: The Todmorden Curve
 

Yes, simply because a train straight through cuts out waiting time in Blackburn.

Re: The Todmorden Curve
 

Anyway, one bit of news I missed yeaterday - it looks like Deutsche Bahn has taken over Grand Central trains (thats the train outfit that runs directly between London & Halifax). It looks like the German state railway - which has also owned Arriva for the last 9 months - has intentions to develop services in the North with more routes to London. A little bit of competition, then for Virgin and the UK state owned East Coast line. You never know, maybe we could see a Blackpool-Accy-Toddy-London service. That should be fun.

Re: The Todmorden Curve
 

Have a look at this. This co. is partly funded by Arriva and headed by Ian Yeowart former MD and founder of Grand Central. Alliance Rail Holdings

Re: The Todmorden Curve
 

Yeah...Alliance is a subsidiary of Arriva. No mention of a new route going through Accy, but then again the document is dated August 11th so precedes this weeks announcement, which may well cause some revision to their initial plans. Lets hope so.

Re: The Todmorden Curve
 

I may be wrong , I don't know how the track layout works but if the Burnley (Man Rd) route via the Tod curve terminates at Victoria, then surely this completes the other half of a circuitous route that would allow trains to travel via Bolton,Blackburn,Accy,Burnley, Littleborough,Rochdale and back to Victoria. Trains could also travel in the opposite direction, but again track layout may make that unviable (such as single track sections ??)

Re: The Todmorden Curve
 

No, you're right. However, the problem is the Manchester trains from Blackburn don't actually start there - they begin in Clitheroe which I understand runs as a single track line down to Blackburn. So if you make a circle line, then you isolate those people up in the Ribble Valley who commute daily to Manchester to earn lots of money in order to pay for their 'des res' in a nice market own and it's rural hinterland. You could, of course, run a shuttle service between Clitheroe and Blackburn but that of course would mean delays and waiting time at Blackburn and some of those bunnies won't be too happy about that.

The alternative would be to do something similar as to that done on London's circle line, which isn’t a circle line anymore but resembles that of the outline of a tadpole. Trains start from Hammersmith (the tail), go north to join the circle, pass through Edgware Rd, then do a full circle back to terminate at Edgware Rd and then return all the way round to join the tail on to Hammersmith.

So for Hammersmith, read Clitheroe. Trains start there, go down to Manchester, then back through Toddy, Accy and Blackburn where they finish and then return all the way round back to Clitheroe. The only problem with that is while there may be capacity on most of the line, there isn’t on the Clitheroe-Blackburn spur.

Re: The Todmorden Curve
 

Interesting , TL. I take your point about the Blackburn/Clitheroe section but, personally, I don't see why a circuit line could not run alongside current routes so the Clitheroe to Manchester would remain (a little tweaking, maybe). Other routes would use sections of the circuit such as the Blackpool/Leeds trains and Preston/Colne.

Re: The Todmorden Curve
 

There's all sorts of variations on which to run the service route. The key point, though is that while it's Network Rail which will be reinstating the curve it will be the train operating companies that will have to find the rolling stock and fit in to and adjust the existing timetables to run the service. They are only going to do that when they see a sound business plan that is going to give them a profit. We'll see what happens.

I don't see the curve reinstatement as being that much of a major job. After a structural assessment, its a case of clearing the undergrowth, putting down the bedding,tracks and signalling and then linking up with the existing lines. If the funding is in place, then work should start early next year but given Network Rails track record on similar projects you're probably looking at 6 months before it's fit for purpose. We'll just have to see then just who's ready to run the service - assuming of course, there have already been expressions of interest.

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I'm puzzled as to how it will create jobs around here. Surely it will give more people the chance to get jobs in Manchester and commute out of here every day.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be a nice thing, to have a train service straight to Manchester as I could catch the train and do my Christmas shopping easily without having to park in the city.

But I'd love someone to explain where the jobs will come from.

Re: The Todmorden Curve
 

Quite right, Gayle. I suspect this figure has been plucked out of thin air in order to justify some consultant’s fees. You’re also right when you say there is both an up line and a down line with most railways and in a place like Accrington jobs are just as likely to migrate as they are to be brought in. Certainly, if you have an up and coming area with a new industrial estates and new office parks then a new or improved railway link is essential but if you have an area in rapid economic decline – such as Hyndburn & N E Lancs – then you’ll find that jobs may well go out.

There could, however, be a positive effect on property prices as people decide to use the area to live and to commute into Manchester. That’s certainly the case now with Todmorden and Hebden Bridge, which lie half way between Leeds and Manchester, the two largest financial centres outside of London. Lots of people choose to live there because it’s a half hour journey into either city, they have the advantages of small town life, and come winter and the snow falls they get, then they don’t have to turn up for work

Even that, however, may soon end if the EU succeeds in implementing a financial transactions tax on the UK. I do believe that Mr Jones is backing that idea.

Re: The Todmorden Curve
 

I have campaigned for Tod Curve for years now. It could lay over after Accy but it will now terminate at Blackburn. Clearly the change at Blackburn option isn't popular because hundreds choose to get on the X41,X42. Add the 43 and 44. It is clearly going to be a very popular service.

It's all going to begin March 2014. Issues now are ticketing and stops, peak and off peak and who underwrites it in years 1-3 and takes any profit. I will keep people up to date and keep campaigning for a service that serves the people here.

Sent from mobile

Re: The Todmorden Curve
 

The jobs figure is some abstract calculation. Major work is being undertaken in Burnley to redevelop around the station. We have had they however some redevelopment is still possible.

Re: The Todmorden Curve
 

Graham, you're obviously passionate about this because you've been campaigning for it for a long time so can you tell us how it will help the economy?

I know that there has been talk of 1,000 jobs (but as you say that is an abstract calculation) so how and where will these jobs be?

I can't imagine it helping any retailers as people will find it even easier to visit other towns. I can also see people getting jobs further a field and commuting out of the area.

I realise that there is the possible increase in housing values as people who are commuting may find houses around here but I'm still unsure how this will really benefit our economy.

So can you explain please?

Re: The Todmorden Curve
 

Reinstatement of the Todmorden Curve is aimed at improving rail links between Burnley and Manchester.
Todmorden Curve rail link moves a step closer - Business News - Burnley Express

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You've probably seen me bleating on before about the Manchester bus being the busiest out of Accrington, especially at weekends. The best thing we can hope for is if there is an increase of people moving here to commute then they stay here and spend their money at weekend

Re: The Todmorden Curve
 

Whilst you're sat, all comfy, in the information centre at the choo-choo station, perhaps you could inform passengers the answer to this question...

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One Way Ticket - Boney M - YouTube

http://www.emoticones-smileys.fr/Smiley/Bye/byeb05.gif

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The train has always been my preferred way of travel .

Let's hope it will be a success for those who prefer travel by rail .

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Agreed.

I spent twenty five years going up and down the West Coast line.

I always found it easier to sleep, or read a book, on the train, than I did whilst driving.

:D

Re: The Todmorden Curve
 

Groove thinks the Tod curve a great idea and wonders why it has'nt been done years ago. But Groove thinks the economic benefits to Accy have been exaggerated. Why will people shop/work etc in Accy when Manchester is 45 minutes away? Groove does'nt envisage Accrington as a commuter town for Manchester.