Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

I think this sums up what most people have known all along..those on lower incomes (wether it be low wages, benefits or both) have and will take the brunt for the economic situation... more likely that rich bankers and such have spent more money on drugs and gambling than all the 3 million unemployed put together!....Child poverty: Benefits can do more harm than good, says Iain Duncan Smith | Mail Online

Official figures published in George Osborne’s autumn statement on Tuesday indicate child poverty is set to increase by 100,000 over the coming years. And the Institute for Fiscal Studies thinktank has suggested that lower income groups are bearing the brunt of the Government’s cuts.

But David Cameron insisted yesterday that the rich were carrying a much larger share of the burden than the poor :D

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

i have yet to experience any tory control where the poorer dont get screwed over.They are well known for looking out for the better off its one of those facts of life that will never change.

oh hang on they do support the poor just not the poor in this country

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

What does this say to any family that have lost work by as result of government sackings..are they now scroungers who will spend any benefits on drugs and gambling?
We all know it's hard times but to make excuses like this for cutting benefits is pathetic.

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

Well, Mancie, it was asked i another thread, but how exactly would you sort out the problem of finances. You still have not answered this question.
And how are things going to be when anyone from the EU can come into this country and claim a whole raft of benefits from day one?
Do you think this is a fair way to apportion the money that is in the communal pot?
Will you be happy to pay more in the way of taxes so that these 'needy' peple get the money you seem to think they deserve?

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

Do you ever watch the BBC program Saints and Sinners?
If you do, then you will see that some benefit claimants are bogus.
They take the money that is meant for those who are really in need. That is the problem with this country the benefits system needs to be sorted out, so that the money does go to the needy, and not the greedy and workshy.

Perhaps, it's time to remove the National lotto? Introduced to support, 'good causes', I believe it is also known as the poor mans tax, after all the chances of getting 6 numbers are very low as indeed are the chances of winning much on the 'Instant gratification', scratch cards?
There is an ad' on T.V. From them showing folk giving these things as Christmas Presents.

Is this aimed at the rich & the middle classes?
No it's aimed to rip off the gullible.

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

The thread is not about me putting forward some kind of alternative policy..it's simply stating the fact that those on lower incomes are bearing the brunt of the cuts...
"Official figures published in George Osborne’s autumn statement on Tuesday indicate child poverty is set to increase by 100,000 over the coming years. And the Institute for Fiscal Studies thinktank has suggested that lower income groups are bearing the brunt of the Government’s cuts"

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

The "Compassionate Conservative" philosophy is to keep state intervention to a minimum, and plan for growth through private enterprise which will create the wealth to "look after" the more vulnerable and less well off.

That is fine while the wealth is being created, but where is "Compassionate Conservatism" in a time of recession? Osborne is faced with the dilemma of imposing cuts, but doing it in a way that doesn't discourage entrepreneurship. Therefore, the "rich" suffer less than the "poor", because expenditure on the less well off is considered "dead money" as it has no chance of generating growth.

The solution is to guarantee everybody a fair share of the cake, and every step should be taken to target the money at the wellbeing of the kids.

For Ian Duncan Smith to claim that benefits for ALL should be curtailed because of the spending priorities of the FEW is disgraceful. If some choose to spend their share on drugs rather than food for the kids, then in a Conservative world, that is their choice (aren't the Conservatives the party of choice?).

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

Ain't it marvellous that for 13 years benefit claims were allowed to escalate to levels never seen before, the benefit culture was allowed to flourish unchecked, yet for some reason the clown down London and is chum in Scotland never said a word about this ludicrous situation until May 2010, now its the nasty Tories (not the collision) who are persecuting the most needy, we see every day, both in the press and on TV programs that there are people who will screw the system to the floor and we're not talking about a few quid here, its thousands upon thousands claimed illegally, only today it was stated at over £1.5 billion was fraudulently claimed in benefits last year, maybe if the previous Government had made more checks when they could see the situation escalating out of control, but as usual its always left to others to clear up their mess, a trait of every Labour Government in history

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

No Mancie it isn't.......but you constantly snipe at whatever the government does.
There has developed in this country a benfits culture. Whole families and generations of t hem draw benefits rather that work for their living....How did this come about?
Well, I think you know the answer to that one.
I believe in support for those who find themselves on hard times, but I do not believe in giving handouts to every Tom Dick and Harry who walk into this country for economic reasons....then send the money back home to their families in the homeland....do you? That is not good for our economy...only theirs.

The only way you can regulate how people on benefits spend their money is to give them vouchers for food....and even this is not fool proof as they could always sell the vouchers in order to buy drink, drugs or cigarettes....or whatever their dependency requires.

The Welfare system needs a radical overhaul, and has needed it for a long time now.
No government has had the guts to do anything other than tinker around.
It should never be more lucrative to be on benefits than it is to go out and earn a living.

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

Ya have to feel sorry for this woman don't ya Mancie
On the run: £46,000 benefits cheat who 'couldn't walk more than 20 yards' caught training for half marathon | Mail Online

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

The scandal there is the sentence she received. 200 hours community service. :eek:

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

Very true Gynn, but would the last government done anything harsher, I doubt it very much.

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

I was from a large family....there were seven children. My father was ill for many years as a result of being blown up on the beach at Dunkirk.......he couldn't work, so my mother went out to work to support the family.

Ma had three jobs - all menial cleaning jobs.
6am until 9am cleaning the offices at Howard and Bulloughs......9am untill 11am at the Elite Billiard hall......then back to Howard and Bulloughs in the evening.......she also did some shifts at Catlows Fruit Market on Broadway.......the Catlow Brothers let Ma fit her hours in around her other jobs.
They were also very kind to her with bags of fruit and vegetables some free, some very cheap.
If she had not done this then we would have starved.....truly, we would.

In those days if you didn't work then you didn't eat. Hunger is a great motivator.

When we went to school we got free school dinners...this meant that we had at least one good square meal a day.

I can remember there being no food in the house at various times in my young life.
And no money to buy food.
No coal to keep the house warm.....when it was cold we used to go to bed and huddle together under the blankets, with coats on the bed for extra warmth.
In the winter we made ice lollies on the inside of the bedroom window sill

This an extract from one of my blogs. It is about the kind of poverty that I experienced as a child.
Not the pseudo poverty that is talked of today, the kind where benefit claimants have the latest games consoles, flat screen TV's....in fact all the mod cons that the rest of us worked damn hard to be able to afford.

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

Groove notes that satellite television, internet and various other modern luxuries are marketted for the ones that can afford it, yet these are the ones on benefits. Groove knows various people who live with these luxuries and obtain benefits. He has a neighbour who paports(sp) to have a bad leg. He has been given a brand new car and earns or should i say receives more than most working folk i know along with having free rent, coucil tax benefit. Its common knowledge locally that it is a scam. Until there is a crackdown with people having to take vigouress tests to obtain benefits. Although you cant forget some folk genuinely are disabled and poorly it seems a life on benefits is a decent career move financially when really it should be the very desperate that qualify for these benefits. How can you expect folk to work when the benefits system is so attractive.

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

It is a real blight on the country that some people, like the woman in the article posted by Jay, fiddle around the system taking money away from those who are truly incapacitated and in need. What i don't understand though is why her case was not revued regularly by doctors -surely someone must have rubber-stamped her claim... The type of disability a person has must fall into different classes from permanent, degenerative, partial or transitory -I don't know how the system works but there must be some parameters for evaluating a person's problem and revueing them if necessary...

It is hard to say what is a "necessity" of modern living -I'm sure a Phone, a TV and computer are a godsend for the house-bound for example, and no-one would want them to suffer the cold -I think the main gripe here is not for those who are deservedly on Incapacity benefit but more for those who are permanently un-employed. Time perhaps for them to have to contribute something to the community in order to merit the benefits they claim...

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

What usually pees me off with some of the posts on here is happening again. Blaming the poor and the powerless for their poverty. "Welfare culture" ... bs ... it doesn't exist; it's created by a sensationalist media for the entertainment and reassurance of those wearing those blue leather blinkers, embossed with "13" ... the magic number used by tories to explain away with screw ups of the tory government (and forget about that "coalition" horse manure ... it's a tory govt. with a few whining Lib-Dems struggling to be heard). The story of someone cheating on welfare has folks calling for cutbacks on all the poor. Sure as hell ain't too many people using the scientific method here ... coming up with a general hypothesis based on a few isolated examples and wacky extrapolations ... very medieval.

Ok, if we are looking for "welfare bums", those living off excessive govt. hand outs, we should be looking in the board rooms of the major corporations ... that's where the big bucks are heading. The real bums are the "corporate welfare bums", who seem to be getting an undeserved free ride in this thread. Who put the world into the last recession:confused: A few thousand welfare cheats, or the big businesses whose executives proved they couldn't organize an orgy in a whorehouse, let alone run a business? These, by the way, are usually the guys who used govt. bailouts to give themselves performance bonuses. When the guy on the production line at GM screws up, he gets fired. When GM management screwed up, they got bailouts and million dollar bonuses.

The Government of Ontario spends hundreds of millions on welfare ... but, when GM and Chrysler went cap-in-hand for bailouts, it came up with five billion:eek: And the Government of Canada with about another twenty billion. The workers in the plants in Oshawa and Windsor took pay cuts and reduced benefits to help out ... more billions. And the US and European banks and financial institutions ... enough said.

The UK is a wealthy country ... no citizen should be left behind ... Share the wealth. Don't buy into the "trickle down" bs ... you know, "let the private sector create the jobs ... give them hand outs and tax breaks in order to create jobs".:rolleyes: Kinda like Bell Canada ... give them breaks and incentives, and what do they do. Well, in my community they moved 465 call centre jobs to India for chrissake ... folks over there work for less. Makes good business sense ... trouble is, it puts folks in my community onto welfare where they can be conveniently blamed by local tories for being a drain on the economy.

Corporate welfare - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

I know where you're coming from Eric -as long as the little people keep accepting that things are out of their control, the world will carry on pretty much as it has since time immemorial. Power and wealth in the hands of the few and an illusion of well-being to those in the middle which has recently been shown up for the scam it is - as to the less well-off...an easy scape-goat. The media always goes to town on the benefit scrounger stories but, as a comparison, Sir Fred Goodwin got off pretty lightly considering the sums he siphoned off and the damage his good management did for the Royal Bank of Scotland... How many days of community service did he get for his misdemeanors i wonder?

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

Thing is most people wi sense know why the moneys evaporated, n it sure aint benefit scroungers, whilst it does need sorting no doubt, the media/goverments/ n dickheads on here will blame em, NO PARTY at all has or will get to grips wi the real reason, cos as is widely known,they all pee in the same pot, so highlighting this is a valid reason to em.:rolleyes:

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

...and drink from the same cup Cashy!!!;):D

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

Eric, I don't blame the poor for being poor, but I do blame those who are workshy for being so....but to be honest it isn't all their fault. It is the fault of a benefits culture.....and despite you declaring it to be BS, it does exist...if it didn't then why would you have three generations of a family(and there are many of these) who have not worked?? Have no intention of working, but will happily take whatever the state gives out and then cry poverty.
If there was no benefits culture then these people would be in work, contributing their taxes rather than taking.
Handouts do not work...they just foster dependence.
Some responsibility has to be placed on people to sort themselves out. It seems that everyone want the government to do it all for them...this infantilizes the population.

It really comes to something when i can see families on benefits who are better off than me.....who has worked all of my life.....contributed, and am still contributing(mainly because a Labour Chancellor doubled my tax contribution).
I do not begrudge giving a helping hand to those in need, but why should I have to be a crutch for their lifetime, to keep them in a lifestyle that I cannot achieve?

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

Eric, I don't think I qualify for wearing true blue blinkers, but I think you're wrong, about the U.K. nowadays.

Many people are better off claiming benefits, than working for a living.

That system, not necessarily the people, is wrong, because ultimately it's not sustainable.

I answered you similarly, in this thread...
http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...s-59903-3.html

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

Companies who go to our government hoping for bailouts get short shrift........they are told to look for a buyer who can invest. The exception was the Banking industry.......they got tax payers money because it was felt that not to bail them out would be more dangerous in the long run.
We, the tax payers, are told that we will be paid back, we were also told that the mega bonuses would stop.....it hasn't happened yet.(and this government sold Northern Rock off to Richard Branson at a knock down price - but there are rumours that this was agreed in principle, by the previous incumbents)

Oh yes, and as to welfare, we have migrants in this country who are claiming benefits and sending the money back home - where this money will not only buy more goods and services, but will help their economy too.
Pretty soon anyone from any of the countries in the EU will be able to come to our country, and as soon as they step on UK soil they will be entiteld to the whole raft of benefits into which they have paid nothing......nada, Zilch, diddly squat. How long do you think this 'rich country' can sustain such folly?

I saved all of my life, so that when it came time for me to retire, I would not be a burden on the state - I prefer to pay my own way where possible. It would have been just as prudent for me, not to have bothered.
Saving does not pay.

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

In those days there was work to go to!

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

That doesn't mean that physically fit people, should be claiming sickness benefit they are not entitled too, that's the problem, because your out of work faining illness to receive money your not entitle to is the reason a lot of people say I'm no better off working, it shouldn't be more profitable to sit on your arse doing nothing than earning an honest living :mad:

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

I know where you are coming from hon ... same generation as me ... I think that we have a stronger sense of fair play, or, maybe of what is right and what isn't. And a strong work ethic, any work: "Where there's muck, there's brass" eh. But ... there's always a "but" isn't there;) ... I don't see much of a culture of welfare abuse. And if this is going on for several generations, I don't see any benefit for blaming the kids born into welfare. The answer is simple, and unfortunately therein lies it's complexity. The jobs are gone. Not the hamburger flipping opportunities, but the well-paid industrial jobs ... Britain's manufacturing sector has shrunk more than that of any other developed country. When 30% of the economy is crammed into one square mile, something is wrong. Look at Germany (preferably thru the bombsights of a Lancaster, great plane, designed and built in Britain, by Brits) .... they are doing so well 'cause they still make stuff ... Nips (those wonderful folks who brought us Pearl Harbor) ... they make stuff too, damned fine stuff. Don't see them shipping off jobs to the Third World in order to boost profits.

Anyway ... what pees me off is that a bunch of welfare cheats are taking all the flack, and the real assholes, the one's in suits, are getting off almost scot free. Ok, the odd Bernie Madoff goes to the joint, and Conrad Black (ex-Canadian, you guys made him a Lord:rolleyes:) does a little time ... but in general, the corporate welfare bums get away with it.

Ah well, "Mother of 27 uses welfare to buy a Mercedes" (fine car, made in Germany) makes great headlines, and diverts attention from the real freeloaders and their political buddies in London ... or Washington ... or Ottawa for that matter. The western economies are in deep doo doo ... and it sure as hell aint a bunch of welfare cheats who are responsible for the whole mess.

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

Yes, there might have been if you were in good health.........my mother worked at three jobs......to try and keep us fed and clothed(it was mostly jumble sale stuff) we certainly got very little in the way of benefits to sustain us during this period.
As soon as my father was able he got work....but things were still very tough.
My point was that people talk about poverty, yet many of these who talk of poverty have not experienced real poverty......they have the goods that we could only dream of.....and they may be in debt because of it.....maybe that is where my mother went wrong...if she couldn't pay for something then she wouldn't get it....nothing on 'tick'...nothing on 'slate'.

I am led to believe that there is work for those today who would accept it....but it doesn't pay nearly as well as benefits do.

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

I know a chap who I've met through another WebSite I use, who believe me will do anything to earn money for his family, he's always going to the job centre going for interviews, take part time jobs that only last weeks, he won't turn his nose up at anything, he's just started delivering mail in the run up to Christmas, this guy to me is a star, what I've always called the salt of the earth and he deserves all the luck and breaks that are going

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

Right on, bud. You got it in one. When I was a lad ... back in the hoss and cart days, serious;) ... and lived on Rishton Rd., every afternoon at knocking off time, you could see them in their hundreds streaming down Charles St., workers from English Electric earning a decent wage which they used to raise their families.

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

Eric, I know we are from the same generation...and I think a lot of what you say is true.
If children are born into a situation where it is seen as normal to claim benefits, they are not instilled with any kind of work ethic........that cannot be right.
Why would they go to work if they could live off folk like me? Who is the mug here?
The jobs are gone....are they? The polish workers come here and seem to get jobs OK...because they have a work ethic...they want to work.
I know our manufacturing base has shrunk......maybe that has something to do with the EU and how they place the criteria for tenders(e.g. the Siemens deal that took work away from Bombardier in Derby...the EU skewed the criteria for the contract so that Bombardier were ineligible to be considered for the contract) there are other factors at play too...everything that can be manufactured, is manufactured in China - a place where the workforce is cheap to employ - so their goods are naturally more competitive.

We exported our jobs....yes we sold looms to countries that could make stuff far more cheaply.......and then wondered why there were no British made cotton goods for sale here. I was a casualty of that shrinkage.....originally a weaver...until all the mills closed down.

Yes corporate bums do get away with a lot......many of the huge businesses are registered abroad for tax purposes...they pay no tax in this country.......that should be tackled, but I won't hold my breath on that one.

There are many inequalities, and one does not cancel out another.
The rich are never going to complain about the benefits system...it doesn't touch their lives.
As I have said in a previous post.....I do not mind offering a helping hand to those who have genuine need......but I do resent being a lifetime crutch for those who want to stay at home and watch Jeremy Kyle on daytime TV.

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

They were healthy and not suffering from 'battle shock' and shrapnel injuries.
There were no benefits for my mother and father in the early 1950's.

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

this government is no better than the previous lot

they make viillains out of smokers ,drinkers and now poor people after dragging out a few isolated cases as examples as to why we shoudl hate those on benefits .

whats next on the list?

children get free dental treatment what a set of scrounging scumbags they are :rolleyes:

oh and if anyone is a bit envious of their neigbors telly and think its wrong they have a nice telly becaus ethey are on benefits has it ever occured to you that they may have bought the telly before they lost their job or bought it second hand or even had it bought for them or given :rolleyes:

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

If that is the case then all well and good, but the ones I am referring to have never worked....ever!
And yes, in effect they were given the telly....we, the tax payer, gave it to them.

I am not envious of material posessions. If I really, really want something I will save for it......and buy it with a clear conscience knowing that the money I am spending is earned.

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

If newspapers told the truth.

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

I can never understand why people say they were not elected.

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

I still am a firm believer in a welfare state and am proud to say I come from the country where it originated and is maintained. What would be a serious alternative, the workhouse?
Undoubtedly abuse of the system and the fact that it has had to be extended to include members of the EU etc have weakened what was a fine and pioneering system in it's day, something to be proud of as a nation. Do we want to end up with a private health insurance system as they have for example in the USA?

Abuse has come about mainly becasue of a laxity in the system which means that for many it's actually more lucrative NOT to work and instead to claim benefits :
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda
Eric, some of what you say, I take.

Though without wishing to appear too much like a copywriter for the Daily Mail, on some points you're wrong.

In recent years we have had a situation in which people chose to live on state funded benefits, because it meant they were better off doing that, than working for a living. For this, the system was wrong. Not necessarily the people who took advantage of the situation, who wanted as much money as possible, to fund their family's living costs.

The jobs some people are no longer prepared to do, are now being done by eastern Europeans. Who can work here, thanks to the E.U.'s open borders policy.

State benefits should be there for people, who through no fault of their own, need them. They should not be an option, a choice. Which for some, it was. Long term we can't afford that option as a society.

This programme showed people helped back into the jobs market, who then decided they couldn't afford the loss in income, so who chose to go back to living off benefits.

'Yvette, who, with four kids, finds that a minimum wage from Poundland is no match for the benefits she was getting before. Even Hayley doesn't blame Yvette for quitting, which is out of character for Hayley, and means that there must be something wrong with the system.'
Benefit Busters | Last night's TV | Television & radio | The Guardian

Benefit Busters | Single Mothers | Channel 4 - YouTube

http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...s-59903-3.html :quote

Fostering a work ethic in a country which offers opportunities to it's people is the key to a growing economy and prosperity for all...as well as a basic welfare system which helps those who are the weakest in society and those who need a helping hand to get them started in the working world.

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

Benefit scroungers are not a recent phenomenon.

When I started my career at Ministry of Pensions and National Insurance (as it was then) in 1959 there were people who 'worked the system'.

The difference now is that you have been made aware of them.

Why do they get so much publicity? - so that you will be outraged and demand more stringent rules to qualify - which get imposed on ALL people who claim.
You are conned into complicity in the wholesale reduction of all benefits to all people, when the bankers who really caused the problem avoid the attention - you have been 'diverted'.

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

What the second paragraph above this fails to say though is the fact some people who are prepared to do these jobs n have done fer a good few years,were turned away from certain local firms as they had no vacancies cos they "WERE" given to Eastern Europeans, i have a nephew as a case in point, Sept- Xmas every year was the only employment he could gain, he loved doing it,cos he felt valued, last couple of years hes now been worthless in his eyes.:mad:

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

i think the thing we are missing is JOBS .not agency or temporary but jobs with social cohesion.how can people get mortgages when at least 60% of jobs are agency or temporary. all the political parties have missed the point here.ian duncan smith has made sure there are less premenant jobs by choping civil servant who have been replaced by firms who are financed by private equity firms who chop their staff left right and centre to maximise profit/

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

brighthouse ie private sector shop;):D

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

That fact the media n government omit to mention some want these jobs but are now refused, probably cos it don't suit their argument,that people dont want em, n many listen to this Bull n take it in,some people are as thick as two short planks in my view.:rolleyes:

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

Yes I constantly snipe at this government..and you constantly defend the government.
Ducan Smith is talking about all benefits to poor families..that includes working families that my get some help via tax credits and child benefit..is child benefit now included in what you call the "benefits culture"?
Osbourne has admitted that the cuts to he is making will increase child poverty!... we are not talking about scroungers or those on the fiddle the statement that families on low incomes should suffer cuts because they spend money on drugs and such is a disgrace.

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

the real losers under this goverment are the workers. higher taxes, tax credits ,high inflation, workers rights cuts to the public sector[dont forget they are taxpayers too which has a knock on effect to the private sector, starving the economy of money creates undergrowth;)

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

and by the way the tories created the welfare state as we know it today by creating high unemployment and getting the gutter press to say high unemployment is acceptable. murdoch will never forget or forgive the unions for wapping so they have their own set agenda for the unions.

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

You have me so wrong. I am NOT defending the government.
I have no allegiance to any political party.
And it really doesn't matter how I answer you, you already have me down in your own mind as someone who goes along with a tory party line.
No, working tax credits are not seen as benefits culture.....because there is a aprent earning those credits...paying into the system.
If you have read and digested anything I have posted you will know exactly what I am talking about....but it suits your argument to dismiss those points in ordernot to dirupt your vision of me.

You obviously have not read of my impoverished upbringing.
Mancie, I really can't be bothered trying to remove your rose tinted glasses anymore.
We are in a mess socially and financially.
I don't care about the colour of the coat of the rescuers......all that matters is the rescue.

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

BrightHouse, what has BrightHouse got to do with it?

Oh, I see, those who don't go to work buy their stuff from Brighthouse at over-inflated prices and ultra high interest rates........now let me see....where do these people get the money for this stuff?
Why the tax payer of course........so while they might be paying for these goods, it is you and me who are paying for it really via our taxes.

Around here they don't call it Brighthouse, but something which rhymes with it.

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

So the loss of the mill's, factories etc has got nothing with the desire of the general public to purchase goods as cheaply as possible.
I remember the Three day week, only having two channels on the TV when ITV went on strike, Red Robbo at British Leyland, even the Miners holding the country to ransom in the mid 70's, "crisis what crisis" (I am not referring to the Supertramp Album).

Anyone remember the Buy British campaign?
What happened to that?
James Dyson, of Dyson fame, moved his manufacturing to China 6 or 7 years ago, because the Government were strangling him.
My own father is currently designing a card product, he wants to have it made in Britian, but as it would cost 30p more here than China, the Retailers will not buy it as the General Public will find it too expensive!

Personally, I felt that Northern Rock should have been allowed to fail with all debts (mortgages,
loans etc) written off and all deposits guaranteed by the Government of the day.
I have no time for the Bankers and their bonuses, but neither the last government or this one are prepared to cap them.

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

You've got to remember BG that the ills of this country have, in history, only started on the 3rd May 1979 and the 6th of May 2010, well that's according the Pinky and Perky or north and south of the border. it seems funny though that they conveniently forget what happened in the years leading up to these dates, its always easier getting into the mire than getting out of it, they're great at the first part but crap at the second, always leaving it to others to clear up while the main protagonists sail of into the sunset to make their own fortunes ;)

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

Damm it Jay, I nearly lost a mouthful of coffee on my netbook screen then!!!!
I would give more K, but cannot at the moment.
BG

I would love to know when I and others like me became scroungers?
I was recently made redundant not because of the world recession, not because the goods I was manufacturing weren't wanted, not because I wasn't prepared to travel and work hard.
I was made redundant because the Country I was working in had a revolution!
This brought a suspension of the long term contract I was working on which in my own small way was bringing much needed money into this Country.
If ever things become stable again in that Country I know, there is a backlog of work that I will be able to catch up on.
Until then, I and others in my position are doing what they are entitled to do, claim benefits.
While I was working, I bought the luxury goods, flat screen T.V.'s, decent mobile, excellent P.C. & laptop for when I do go abroad.
All items I paid cash for, I have no debts so if I choose to fritter away some of my benefits on entertainment am I being irresponsible? Am I stealing from other peoples tax?
No, I am existing on less than quarter of what I used to earn, but I certainly don't need some high minded person to decide how I spend my entitlement, nor am I suddenly so incompetent with money that I need to be paid in vouchers.
Very soon fortunately the work is going to be there again for me plenty of panels that are well overdue to be made, plenty of time spent abroad fitting those panels. (the Company hope there will be so much work they will be able to employ even more struggling people in genuine jobs).
Do I blame the people of that Country for fighting for a better life? No, hopefully their freedom will mean more work as we turn their Country around.
I have of course been prepared to do any job while I'm claiming my rights, the jobs just aren't out there like they used to be.
As for generations being on benefits it's a disgrace, but I don't think it is their disgrace, it is OUR digrace, so unless you have some magic fix that will bring genuine work for all do not be too quick to judge, the vast majority in their situation want to work.

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

No Less, you are not a scrounger. You have paid into the system and are claiming what is yours.
You will pay into the system again, when you are employed....you are employable, you have a skill....you have a work ethic.......you told us you would take any job until things pick up.
No-one has suggested that you have sudenly become incompetent with money...or that you should be denied the entertainment of your choice.

Why do you think that generations who have never worked is OUR disgrace as you put it?

They have never paid into the system as you have....and in essence they are taking your money too.

The magic fix you talk off was way back down the line...opportunites missed.
Other factors too have had an impact......the uncontrolled immigration....the global economy. But it has to be said that there are some people, who unlike you.....do not want to work, but want to be kept by the state.
If you feel that this acceptable then, so be it.......but it is an unsustainable situation.

The people so easily sacrificed and then condemned by those luckier than themselves could also be employable and contribe if the work was there. It is only a tiny minority that scrounge and choose to live on benefits, it is an even smaller minority that steal benefits, what is disgraceful about these thieves is that when caught the punisment doesn't fit the crime.
But oh how easily our 'right minded' people are to tar all claiments with the same dirty brush, playing the blame game against the vulnerable is cowardly, whether you are a politician or the so called ordinary man in the street.

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

Is it only a tiny minority who live exclusively on benefits?
I know at least three families who have never worked...ever.

And yes, it is disgraceful that when caught the benefit cheats get ludicrous sentences.
It is even more disgraceful that they cheat in the first place, rather than have the morality to go out and earn a living.

Have a walk along Broadway, any day of the week and look at some of the vulnerable.

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

And it isn't luck that makes someone employable.....and you know it. It is application, application to learn, application to adapt, being willing to do something that perhaps someone else won't do. It is getting up in the morning, showing up for the job...that has nothing at all to do with luck.

Polish workers seem to find work easily enough......employers like them because they want to work.

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

i know of a few people who use that shop and they dont have what they buy very long because they cant keep up with the payments so they come and reposses the item.I reakon anything you buy there has probably had at least 3 previous owners unable to keep up payments but thats their choice to shop there.Personally i would save up a couple of quid each week and get a nice telly as long as teh nosey cow down teh street didnt stick her nose into my window and start telling everyone how distgusting it is that instead of buying fags or exepensive food i lived a little cheaper and saved for a cheap brand lcd tv from asda ;)

what next..

how dare people on benefit buy their children christmas presents.

some people work 16 hours a week and get topped up by the tax payer to a full time wage plus get council tax reductions and dont have to pay for prescriptions and dental etc.Maybe its time to shoot them as well because their top up money ( tax credit) is paying for their little extras.

Im sick of peple on benefits been made out to be living a life of luxury.There are some on benefits who drive flash cars ,have all the latest mod cons and go on holidays , I think they are called drug dealers ;)

I bet for each one of your deadbeat families on Broadway there will be perhaps 10 families that are on benefits and would like nothing more than for some of their family to break out of the poverty trap.
You remember poverty? You like to tell us how you grew up in poverty and how you worked hard to improve your lot.
Heres somewhere that luck comes in, you were part of a generation that enjoyed full employment, these so called misfits aren't as lucky as you but I'll bet you they wish they had the chance to work as well.

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

I agree pretty much with all that. As you say those convicted of Benefit fraud should be punished properly in accordance with the severity of that crime & that doesn't always seem to happen. However as you also say, despite what you hear via the media, this crime is relatively low, certainly much lower both in percentage and monetary terms than Tax Avoidance by the very rich, yet there never seems to be the same clamor to hunt those miscreants down.

I know of several disabled people who are being made to feel persecuted & worthless by the constant media bombardment which labels everyone who isn't in gainful employment as workshy. They would all chose a job over their disability any day. Unfortunately its a choice, through no fault of their own, that they will never have!

Best Regards - Taggy

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

No Less, there was no luck involved in how I turned my life around. I studied, and I worked...and I studied some more.
When I left school in 1962 there were more young people than jobs. I got up every day and looked for work. I took myself to places...asked if they had any jobs going.
When I did get a job, I made damn sure that I worked so hard that they didn't want to let me leave.
I left and went working in the weaving mill....because it paid better money. I worked damned hard......6am in the morning til 2pm in the afternoon(I worked in Rawtenstall...lived in Clayton...walked from Clayton to Accrington to get the 5.30 bus to Rawtenstall) I learned to weave top class fabrics....then the company moved lock stock and barrel to South Africa........some workers went with the company...I had just got married and so I was made redundant.......how long was I out of work?
2 days. Why? because I went and found work for myself.
I worked for the Carborundum company...nasty dirty dusty work, heavy too.....decided that a career was better than a job....and you know the rest.
So don't tell me that luck had anything to do with how my life turned out....it didn't, it was application, education, persistance, hard graft........but luck NO...it had nothing at all to do with it.

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

when i was 18 ( due t wasting 2 years on y.t.s) i went knocking on doors for jobs and would either get an interview there and then,be told to go back for a chat or my details would be taken so i could be contacted when a vacancey came up.

when i found myself needing a job 12 years ago i went back to knocking on doors and was promtley told to fill in an application at teh local job agencey group so agencies arnt a new problem but they have got worse as nearly all big companies use them.For things to get beter these agencies need scrapping or severely reducing because as long as they exist employers can keep giving false prommise of a permement job only to transfer them to another department under a new temporary contract or simply let them go.

although i hav not used agencies friends have and there are too many ways in which an employer can abuse the system and not give out jobs at the end of teh contract so they can save on paying holiday pay and sick pay etc

senator international used to be a good local employer but now uses agencey workers rather than employ someone full time or as a full senator employee

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

Why feel guilty when your not, I've had ill health for years, and was totally ****ed of when I was told I couldn't work again, but there are those and a lot of um that fain disability to claim money they are not entitle too, if these were eked out then the real needy would get more, but until we get rid of the feckless workshy scroungers, which in fact escalated to outrageous propositions while the last government through money about like confetti, and the likes off Mancie think is quite okay for them to carry on, the game really is a boggy

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

I'm not saying that Genuine Disabled people feel guilty Jaysay, but they do feel...and indeed there's increasing evidence to suggest they ARE being persecuted & victimised because the constant bad press they receive, which is totally out of proportion to the magnitude of the problem. Its surprising how many people actually believe the garbage that's written in the press these days...but they do. No one doubts that there are people manipulating the benefits system, but i'm sure they could be targeted in a better & more efficient way, than to constantly brow beat the public into believing that the vast majority on benefits are work shy scroungers!

We all know that Labour made many mistakes, but i still believe that even though some of the money they spent has gone into the wrong hands, there was still a geniune attempt to help the poorer people & impoverished areas. That's surely a more laudable approach than to pamper to the elite & pussyfoot around tax avoidance which is a far bigger slice of the "fraud cake" than benefit fraud is. Most of the wasted benefit money is actually by Government error rather than actual fraud, but Government & sympathetic media doesn't like to highlight that.

Why don't we see the same level of publicity and anger from Government & Media over Tax Evasion when it costs us so much more, its just double standards & is basically saying crime committed by the wealthy is acceptable.

Tax evasion costs Treasury 15 times more than benefit fraud - Citywire Money


Best Regards - Taggy

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

I don't think I've got you all wrong and I don't think you have an allegiance to any party..but you have always defend this governments policy cuts regarding benefits and still do.
All your talk of how hard you had it in a past implies that the poor in our society should be made to suffer like you and your family did...whatever you think of the "welfare state" it was put in place as a means for those at the bottom to have a half decent life and the chance to improve their life..but now you seem to think all should stay on the bottom.. I believe that has always been the Tories policy and It's not just me.

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

You forgot the government of 1945-51 who set up the NHS and welfare and pensions...are you still bitter and feel the pain because your beloved tories lost thier fight in opposing everything?..as for creating mire what do you say when the present government has borrowed the most in history and the defiect is 20% higher than when they took power?..edit.. oh dear I'm on ingnore so you won't see this :D

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

i have a feeling that very soon this kind of thread will become irrelevant as the universal credit is introduced.... knowing how local authorities have "managed" change in the past just think for example when they have to pass over responsibility for administering housing benefit to central government.....and as for paying people their benefits monthly...

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

Utter rubbish Mancie.
If I thought that, I would not have made a better life for myself by education, perseverance and hard work...starting at the bottom and working up.......but that doesn't suit your ideas of me or my rationale of taking responsibility for yourself. Not expecting to be given things.

All my siblings have made good lives for themselves because we were given something that seems sadly lacking today....a work ethic.......work at something......it might not be exactly what you want to do, but it will do until something better comes along. We knew that if we didn't work, then we didn't eat. We were not given benefits....cod liver oil,orange juice...free school dinners...that was all we got.

It is because of my poor start that I developed the determination to do better for myself.
I do not need a history lesson fron you either.
You do not have to tell me anything about the Welfare state........I was there when it started. It was never meant to sustain people long term. It was a helping hand....it was means tested so that those who truly were poor got the money, anyone else had to fend for themselves.

At one time my mother was earning one shilling more than the poverty level, which meant we were poor, but not quite poor enough to claim any assistance. she was told that if she left my father with the children they would be able to claim National Assistance.
What do you think she did? She went out and got another job.

You seem to KNOW what I want, but you are wide of the mark.
I want benefits to go to those who truly need them.......those who have worked and are not in work at present(whether that be because of illness, unemployment whatever).
I want people to take seriously, their responsibility to maintain themselves ....not leave everything to governments(whatever colour the government coat is - I don't damn well care).
I want people to be educated and trained, so that they are suitable to take the jobs on offer.
I want the people of this country to be emplyed first above migrants...not the other way about.
I want benefits to be a short term thing...with more help to get people into work....and jobs that are sustainable.
This is my Christmas list.

I know that come Christmas morning all that I will find in my stocking will be a hole.

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

Excuse me but why is this always rolled out when we have a Tory government or should I say Tories involved in government, I can't remember one single initiative brought in my Labour in thirteen years to even try to tackle this universal problem suffered by every country in the world. Benefit fraud is an entirely different thing, which was allowed to escalate out of control between 1997 & 2010, this money paid out to people who are not entitled to it, of the backs of hard working people who do give a damn and get out of bed in a morning. For years the benefit system has needed overhauling, you know that I know that, but of course the likes of Mancie say the poorest in society are being targeted, a lot of these so called "poorest in society" are in that position because they chose to be so, it takes effort to get out of bed every morning before 11am, effort some people will never be prepared to make whilst the state is prepared to pay out money which encourages them to stay there:mad:

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

John, you and I know that Mancie and his sidekick believe that everything the Labour governments did whilst in office was hunky dory.....he knows that in the past you were a conservative supporter....it doesn't matter what you are now Mancie and his scottish sidekick cannot see past that.

Common sense dictates, that the state cannot afford to continue paying the spiralling costs of benefits. Frank Field (a Labour MP, no less),recognised this. It might have been a decade ago......it was a long time anyway. And here we are with nothing done.

Why? Because no political party will take the initiative to carry out a radical overhaul.

Benefits have always been a hot potato - no political party wants to tackle it. They tinker around the edges hoping it will placate the electorate and then they leave decisive(difficult, unpopular) decisions to be made by someone else.

Mancie believes that we all must be blinded by political spin, and we must all be led by the nose by our political dogmas.
I have no political dogmas. I follow my own core values. So shoot me for it.

May I make a few proposals that just might result in no more dole scroungers, benefit fiddlers, and malingerers taking advantage of invalidity?

1/ Anyone unemployed will be removed from their homes and sent for 're-education', in countryside camps where they will learn the joys of the work ethic by planting and harvesting potatos and strawberries for the exclusive use of their betters.
2/ Anyone that has not put away a nest egg of large enough capacity to see them through their old age will not be allowed to retire. If they attempt to retire in the hopes of a state pension they will go for re-education as in 1/.
3/ Anyone that claims to have any form of incapacity and does not have the funds for private care will be removed to a local workhouse and kept in in single sex wards, any husband and wife couple will not be allowed visiting rights. Any person found complaining either about their gruel, living conditions or, the menial tasks, (such as sowing mail bags), will be removed and sent for re-education as in 1/.

You must realise that what I propose are only temporary measures as once we have organised the gas chambers and furnaces we can get on with cleansing our society once and for all.

I think this method of making sure that only those pure in spirit and deed are allowed the right to live alongside their betters, therefore I propose that we call it, 'The Final Solution'.
After all, 'Work Makes Free', and if we act quickly upon this we could have a utopia that could last a thousand years.


OR

We could stop blaming the wrong people for the problems we all need to work together to cure.

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

How can you work together when some of the people are the problem

Yes you are.

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

What do you think happened at Wapping?

From what I have seen Murdoch did not let the unions tell him how to run his business.

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

Why would John be a problem....might it be because he is on benefits?
Benefits, he has earned over the years. He did work for those...as you have worked for yours.
Therein lies the difference.

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

And why did the governemnt have to borrow this money? Might it have been because the last government(sorry about bringing this up) left nothing in the country's coffers because of their profligate spending.
Do you think that if the last government had been elected things would have been aby different, because if you do, you seriously need a reality check.

No not because he is on benefits, Ihe is entitled to them, of that there is no question.

He is part of the problem because like you he is blaming the wrong people, how could a few misguided people that have no work ethic be the cause of all our woes?
They aren't, they have no power, but the ones in power would like you to blame someone and as usual these are an easy target.

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

I am glad you clarified your meaning.

These people who have no power...they have the same power as you or I.
You worked to pay into the system. You have the power of a vote....they too have the same power...now how they exercise this power is up to them.

I have no gripe at all with those who find themselves on hard times, through no fault of their own......illness, unemployment, disability. Benefits were formulated to help them through the tough times.

I begrudge paying taxes to keep those who are unwilling to get off their sofa's and get work of some description....and don't, please don't tell me that these are in a minority. There are whole estates(one in Rochdale that I know of - I have friend who is a health visitor there) where no-one works......where no-one wants to work....it is much easier to draw benefits. They don't pay anything into the system......(from what my friend tells me) they seem to have cigarettes and booze.....and that's alright is it?

they have the power to get educated, to get trained, they have the power to get up each day and go out and find something to do...even if it is only in a volunteer capacity...it would be work that could be put on their CV, so that a future employer could see that they actually are reliable and want to work.

Powerlessness is a form of victimhood......it doesn't give absolution from responsibility.

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

I think this government decided from day one they would cut the income of the poorest people in this country because that is what a tory government will always do because it is the simple way to bring down borrowing..but it is not working..sacking tens of thousands of working people and then targeting them as scroungers is not a good policy..maybe you need to get the reality check.:rolleyes:

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

Oh, and by the way I didn't say anywhere that the people without a work ethic are the cause of all our woes......but they are part of it......but it is much more complicated than that and you know that.

If 'the system', (under whatever political flag), makes it possible for this to exist, surely the fault lies with the rule makers?
These so called bligjhs on society are being given benefits because for whatever reason the law says they are entitled to it.
If this law is wrong then it should be changed, but not if the changing of it adds to extra hardship for the innocent that you seem keen to lump in with the scourge of the nation.

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

In George Osborne's Autumn statement he uplifted benefits and incapacity benefit by 5.2%, the rate of inflation in September.
Ah, you may say...it is traditional to do that...increase benefits by the rate of inflation.......but he didn't have to do that. He could, in these times of financial difficulty, have chosen to leave the benefits as they were.
Currently workers in all sectors are having to deal with payfreezes, which in real terms amount to a pay cut.

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

That is a spot on assessment of the problem. And I agree wholeheartedly. The entitlements need to change. There needs to be reform of the benefits system. No-one wants to tackle it....but it has to be done because the system (especially once the economic migrants start rocking up on our doorstep) cannot sustain the current level of burden.

As I have previously posted several times.......I have no qualms about those who get benefits deservingly because they are ill, or because they have lost their job, because they are disabled......it is those who have never had a job...who do not want to work.
I do not know how much more plainly I can say this. I DO NOT BLAME THE GENUINE CLAIMANTS.
The real blame lies with successive governments who have fostered a benefits dependent culture...in the hope it will get those benefit claimants to vote for them, so that they keep the benefits to which they have become used to.

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

Well thanks for that Margaret.. seeing as you have no leanings to any political party and have no interest in defending this governments policy on benefit cuts I can only applaud you on finding that :D good for you and George.

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

I am not defending this government or George Osborne...simply stating facts. Recent facts, that you seem to have missed...or perhaps just ignored.
But then again it doesn't suit your argument to have this pointed out to you does it?
All you want to do is gripe about the cuts. Still can't see that if you can't pay for it, then you have to do without.
One day.....maybe one day.

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

"Let us not only scatter benefits, but even strew flowers for our fellow travellers, in the rugged ways of this wretched world.";)

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

A true poet Eric ... a sweet smelling world for all.:D

Heard on SKY yesterday that they are squeezing even more money out of those with most problems, offering absurd loans to tide people over till pay day at astronomical percentage rates. Unbelievable and they were saying their "service" was valued by their customers -legalised extortion...:(

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

Fraud detection needs to be given higher priority by DWP, because the abuses that the press have shown us lately have outraged the general public.

BUT - I consider the provocation of public outrage has been a deliberate policy, in order to gain your tacit agreement to the cuts in benefits that will affect all claimants.

Whilst you are hot under the collar at the abuses you have been shown, the far more financially damaging abuses of tax evasion/avoidance are continuing unnoticed.

I repeat what I said earlier in this thread -
..your attention is being deliberately diverted.

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

Keeping up to date with current affairs too.

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

I don't think that I would go as far as "deliberate policy" ... don't think tories are smart enough, or stupid enough for that.:rolleyes:;) I do think that a tacit policy of throwing the poor to the lions to placate the middle and upper classes is implicit in tory politcs and ideology. But now that it is the middle classes under pressure, in order to coddle the wealthy, individuals and corporations, tory politicians have to resort more and more to throwing blame at those whom they consider defenceless. In the long term, this won't work. Folks are coming to realize more and more that they are being screwed over, and that every ship of state in the world has an Edward Smith at the helm.

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

Here is an example of what these 'cuts' are actually doing
DWP proposes to force chemotherapy patients to undergo stressful benefit checks

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

Ya and this country all but sank under the last one mainly because he hadn't a clue how to steer the ship, mind you that's in keeping with every Labour Captain in history, when they have been relieved of their command the countries always been a basket case and that is fact

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

"In a system of free trade and free markets poor countries - and poor people - are not poor because others are rich. Indeed, if others become less rich the poor in all probability would become still poorer." Ok, we all know who this is, and many are anxiously awaiting her death, hopefully after a long painful illness:rolleyes: I understand the ideology; but can some tory explain what is actually means.:confused:

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

Maybe it can't be explained because its a load of crap

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

I believe that is a Maggie T quote:D
(the worm has turned)

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

Its marvellous taking things out of context instead of looking at the big picture,

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

I can certainly agree with this:D ... but what, exactly or close to it, does it mean?

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

Once we remove the cliches, we are left with "Its marvelous ... instead of ..." :confused: Not much to comment on, is there?

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

I think she was spouting the 'trickle down' theory.
It's just a theory. It doesn't work - the money doesn't 'trickle down' it trickles out - offshore

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/t/...#axzz1fyMKFQHJ

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

Quite simple really if the money supply is stifled then its felt right through society, from the wealthy down to the poor and to wish death and suffering on anybody shows me why I could never have been a socialist, I just could mix with that ethos one little bit

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

Oh, so what you are saying is that tory economic policy is, to use your own words: "a load of crap." Mmmm .... I think I can agree with this 100%:rolleyes:

So, there we have it in a nutshell, Tory attitude, 'from the wealthy down to the poor'.

As if, not only should the poor know that their place in the great plan of things, but they should tug their forelocks for being allowed to suffer a position below the wealthy.

Re: Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling
 

And pray tell me the Labour alternative, always remembering that you don't have to suffer all the crap which they leave behind every time they make their usual dogs breakfast of running our country, Mancie keeps bleeding Same old Tory's, well they always follow same old Labour only it gets worse every time they take power because they are quite obviously not up to the job, never have been never will be