Death of sex change teacher
 

Accrington Observers website reporting death of Lucy Meadows who taught at St Mary Magdalens Accrington

very very sad

RIP Lucy

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Always sad to hear of a death whichever sex a person is.

Just a shame the sex change part needed mentioning really.

:(

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Sad news indeed . A very brave person in my opinion .

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thats the headline on the website

Death not being treated as suspicious

In my opinion a very brave person

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R.i.p

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So young, so sad.

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very very sad RIP

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RIP. You was one very brave person

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Awful news :(

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How very tragic. Rest in Peace Lucy. Condolences to all her friends and family.

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All of the above and let's hope the pupils get lots of support and tlc to get them through what will be a difficult and confusing time.

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I bet they`re no stranger to confusion, but a real shame.

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A further twist to this story...
BBC News - Lucy Meadows vigil: Petition to sack Richard Littlejohn

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I happened to be listening to Radio4's Today in Parliament last night, and heard Graham Jones speak in the Commons about how the press had hounded her.

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So sad that any person should be driven to commit suicide! Everyone has a breaking point! There's only so much anyone can take!

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Very true but do you know for sure what the cause of his suicide was? Many appear to be blaming the Daily Mail reporter, he was not the first to report it and our own Observer and Telegraph reported the story.

In my opinion he was let down by the system, by his head teacher and by the Education Authority. He needed help and it looks like he did not receive it.

I feel for those he left behind, especially his children and those that found him. Taking your own life is a very selfish thing to do to those you leave behind.

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For some one to take there own life, there is something very drastically wrong but your right Neil the Mail wasn't the only paper to run with this story.

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She was an educated person........I'm sure it was a difficult transistion to make, but it is was what she chose to do....she must have thought that she could cope with the repercussions....and something that no-one has considered (or mentioned, if they have)...Lucy would have been on female hormonal supplements...these are known to affect mood....so they may have been to blame in some part.
I agree with what Neill has said to a great extent, but (being Devil's advocate) and trying to see it from the perspective of the School, the head teacher and the Education Authority....how many incidences will they have dealt with that come anywhere near close to this event........I think you can probably count it on the fingers of.......well maybe one finger. It is very easy to be wise after the event.........and we can all criticise, but until you have walked that road in bare feet, you know nothing much at all about it, to be qualified to criticise.
It is a very very sad outcome to what is a tragedy which will affect many people....and what makes it so much worse is that it seems that everyone thought highly of Lucy Meadows...but the question is, did they tell her?

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This is the first time I have read that the cause of death was suicide .

It was less than a full school term since Lucy Meadows was at the school as Lucy Meadows , less than three months .

Before Christmas it was reported that she had the full support of the head teacher and the governors of the school in the decision she had taken .

I have said already on this thread that she was a brave person , and indeed she was .

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I said I believe he was let down by the system and I still believe that.
If I said I thought I was a rabbit trapped in a mans body and wanted to dress in a fur suit and live in a burrow my Doctor would send me to see a head Doctor.

Why is a man that thinks he is a woman any different?
If you are like me and think he must have had some sort of mental illness to want to be a woman then why on earth was he allowed to teach children?

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Neil, your analogy is absurd. It really is akin to saying homosexuality is a mental illness(and you aren't doing that are you?)
There are some unfortunate people who are outwardly one gender, but their brain is wired as the opposite gender....now if you want to argue semantics about whether this is a mental illness then I'm not the person to do it with......!

Why would Lucy Meadows have been a risk to children? What kind of risks might she have posed?
Do you think there are no teachers out there, teaching your children who have other mental illnesses......Bi Polar disorder for example.(which is controlled by drugs)

I'm not getting at you Neil,(I wouldn't do that because I respect your opinion) because I agree with much of what you have written...but I also feel that are elements of the situation(which may prove pivotal) that we cannot know.

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I don't understand why you think wanting to change gender has anything to do with being allowed to teach children.

I also find your use of the pronoun "he" to refer to this person after they had obviously become a "she" mildly insulting to her memory.

As Margaret says, there are people whose brains are wired as the opposite gender, also some who have conditions not apparent at birth that cause them to be brought up as the wrong sex.

My friend's daughter decided as a teenager to seek gender reassignment and went through the whole process while doing A levels and starting at university. I can't say, as I didn't ask, what his reasons for this were, but he now appears to be a healthy, well-balanced young man, currently studying in Japan. I would say it takes a lot of courage to do that.

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Hopefully you would get a hoppy ending to your condition Neil (pun intended)

Unfortunately poor Lucy didn't get that :(

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By your own statement you think there is something wrong with their brain.

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I don't wish to insult anyone's memory but I do not agree that surgery can change gender. Gender is down to genetics x and y and all that genetic stuff.

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As far as I know there has been no official inquest pronouncement about Lucy Meadow's death - therefore it really is jumping the gun to speak of suicide. No suspicious circumstances means not a murder, therefore I think two verdcts are probable either death by natural causes or suicide - but it is for the coronorer to pronounce the verdict when He/she has all the facts.
This was a very tragic death whatever the outcome of the inquest as a young person has lost their life, a child has lost a parent and many families and friends will be grieving. My condolences to them.
I totally agree with Marg P's comments on her fragility due to hormanal imbalance - mood swings are something most women have to cope with at some point in their lives, PMT is not a mental illness but it is hard to cope with as are the hormonal changes a woman goes through in her later years - leading to the menopause. I am not an expert but imagine the effects of hormal treatment for gender reassignment may be akin to this. Neil, a female brain IS different to a male one but not for this reason is it to be considered inferior or "sick" in some way -just different, for it's chemical make-up and layout!
Lucy, I believe had a lot of support from her colleagues, from what I read in the papers and was a highly valued teacher, she also had the support of both her family and in-laws. Her life choice would have had no effect on her capacity to teach well, which is, after all what is important -particularly in junior school where the foundation stones are laid for academic and general life.
Being hounded by the press would have made Lucy's life particularly stressful during an already difficult period. I think possibly the level of sustained interest was perhaps more than any of those immediately involved could ever have imagined and whether any of the members of the press commited any illegal actions will have to be considered IF and WHEN a suicide verdict is given. Gender assignment is not a new science and the need for it is not covered under any kind of mental health treatment, it is purely a medical condition and I believe treatable on the NHS with all the necessary support.

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She might have had the female genes from birth but they may not have been apparent. It does happen.

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Having something wrong with your brain does not mean you have a mental illness.

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Neil, just read that again, I didn't say something 'wrong'.
You made that assumption.

I just said that these people who are transgender have their brains wired differently.....differently doesn't mean wrong...it means different.

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You're right, you will have to wait until the newspapers report about it after the inquest.

Now you are putting words in my mouth. I never said either sex was inferior to the other. Please don't forget though that we are talking about a man who wanted to be a woman and not a woman.

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Yes it does. I have had children with 2 women, if I decided that I was really a woman would you think I may have had female genes from birth?

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I do apologise for that assumption

Different to what? Normal?

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Maybe he'd like to comment on his own local newspapers role in this tragedy.

Write Your Adventures Down: Here There be Monstering

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Its not a as simple as that Neil, far from it, its obvious that although X wanted to be Y, or in other words the wrong body was teamed up with the wrong mind, think most of us can say there but for the grace of god go I

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This is not a copout, all I will say is that genetics is more complicated than it may appear.

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If anyone is interested, I found this series broadcast on Channel 4 last year to be interesting and informative, without sensationalising at all.

My Transsexual Summer - Series 1 - Channel 4

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No, different is just that, different...as in being left handed is different from being right handed.

You can have a female brain in a male body and these people recognise that they are 'different'....(not abnormal) from an early age.

Wasn't there a school child who was recently diagnosed with gender dysphoria(that is the medical terminology for this condition)...biologically a boy, but mentally a girl?...Now being schooled as a girl.

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Whatever the gender, we are talking about the death of a human being, none of us, (i'm sure even Neil will agree), are perfect, surely this was a person loved by those that knew them.
Whatever took her from this world should be treated with sympathy, who can say how, why, or when this person started to feel different from what the superior amongst us call the 'norm', but I suspect she went through hell many times until making such a decision as to change gender, then went through hell once more IF she did take the lonely route of suicide.
We don't need her to be criticised any further she is no longer in pain of any kind, I hope those that loved her in life will be allowed to grieve for her in death.

I used the terms her and she, because that was the persons choice can any of you really imagine what she went through to make such decisions?
:confused:

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Well said Less.

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Daily Mail: Sack Richard Littlejohn | SumOfUs

Lucy had the full support of the staff and head teacher,you can make your feelings known about the idiot that is Littlejohn on the above link. :(

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I don't like to put the horse before the cart -ever -it is part of my "scientific" or for those who know me well, "peacekeeping", for want of a better word, nature.
As to inferior- or not, with respect to the "female" type brain -your inference was that it was in some way mentally ill to wish to be so -I quote "If you are like me and think he must have had some sort of mental illness to want to be a woman" !! Hmmmmm!
There are those who appear to be male and are brought up to respect the "ideal" of that state, who in fact are quite the oposite. Nature is surprising in it's variants from that which we deem to be the norm -so much so that there is actually no "norm", just a range of semblances and behaviours. One thing we all have in common is that we are human beings -in all our beauty and with all our many failings...:)

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It was not an inference it was a statement but did not mean I think female are inferior. I would have said the same if we were talking about a woman who wanted to be a man.

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Hit the nail on the head Less

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Transgender issues aren't rare. You just don't hear about them often, because those affected rarely have the courage to change to , what they feel, is a lifestyle which expresses their true identity. I met some of them during my career.

Some people are assigned the wrong gender at birth due to the size of sex organs not being within what is considered the 'norm'.

Others can be hermaphrodite or 'intersex' (they are not the same)

Wikipedia pages explain these phenomenon.

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the only reason why this story got picked up on by the press is because kids were involved and contary to belief just because someone has concerns about a man returning to young childrens lives a few weeks later as a woman it dosnt make you homophobic,transgenderists or whatever it is people want to call you if you dare raise any concerns at all.Of course this man had the backing of the school can you imagine the court case that would follow if the school dared to suggest he sought employment elswhere where the kids wouldnt have known him as a man.

im not saying he should have left teaching but perhaps this wouldnt have even been news if he had simply started a new job to go along with his new life and new sex.A sex swap fella worked as a tutor at Huddersfield university for many years and you probbably dont know that because it didnt make the press.It didnt make the press because he/she wasnt dealing with young children.Sadly he/she also took his own life by throwing himself off the university top floor because he/she had issues.

if my son had been attending mary mags when this was going on i would have pulled him out of that school and relocated him.Not because i am homophobic or a barbarian thug but because i dont want my junior school aged child exposed to the ins and outs of transgenerism just yet in his life and if this had happened when i attended that school i have no doubt my parents would have got me out fo there also.Mind you when i was there the head teacher dissappeared after a swap incident.He swapped his teaching carreer for a prison carreer after stealing a coach from rigbys coach travel and tried using it for his own firm haydock coaches or something close to that

so just to be clear im not homophobic and i have no objections to someone whos had a sex swap teaching.My only issue is that he could have remained in teaching but maybe not such a good idea to stay at teh school where he was known to the kids as a man.

as for teh reporter - sure try getting him sacked if you must but to be fair please target every other reporter that ran this story also

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I suppose much of it stands or falls on how parents and children are informed...and how good the school is.
If the school is good and your child is setteld don't you think it is much more disruptive to their education to be uprooted and put into another school? To have to get to know new teachers,make new friends?

That said, children are quite resilient and form their own strategies for dealing with issues in their lives.
If this teacher had just disappeared from that school, don't you think that there would still have been talk...rumours, and those rumours get embellished, because when folk don't know what is what, many of them will add bits in to make the gossip just a bit more tantalising.......that is human nature.
It is a very sad thing for all concerned, I think we remember that the people who were closest to Lucy, will still be picking up the pieces of their lives. We should stop all this hypothesising and let them get on with it...hence this will be my last post to this discussion.