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-   -   who owns what? (https://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f69/who-owns-what-64364.html)

cmonstanley 09-06-2013 07:59
who owns what?
 
ive just found out that arriva the private transport company is mostly owned by the German government, edf who run the nuclear power stations are mostly owned by the french government,the utilities are all owned by middle east companies. this is proof ,this is the real reason we are in debt .this is evidence this is hard facts we need radicalisation nationalisation of the transport system the utilities ,the waterways no subsidies to these companies get them back in british hands.

jaysay 09-06-2013 08:11
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 1062159)
ive just found out that arriva the private transport company is mostly owned by the German government, edf who run the nuclear power stations are mostly owned by the french government,the utilities are all owned by middle east companies. this is proof ,this is the real reason we are in debt .this is evidence this is hard facts we need radicalisation nationalisation of the transport system the utilities ,the waterways no subsidies to these companies get them back in british hands.
You live in your own dream world, the world has moved on since Stalin, live with it

cmonstanley 09-06-2013 08:42
Re: who owns what?
 
but your anti-European is it good for their governments to own our utilities :confused:

jaysay 09-06-2013 09:14
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 1062172)
but your anti-European is it good for their governments to own our utilities :confused:
Two entirely different things, Government by Europe

DaveinGermany 09-06-2013 11:55
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 1062159)
the transport system the utilities ,the waterways get them back in british hands.
In his own ham fisted way (more through luck than design) he's making a valid enough point. If the assets that are now held by foreign owners were back in British ownership there would be more chance of reaping the benefits, taxes paid into UK, employment of locals & not their own people being brought in from outside, plus the added spending power from the workers within their own economy.

jaysay 09-06-2013 17:38
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinGermany (Post 1062203)
In his own ham fisted way (more through luck than design) he's making a valid enough point. If the assets that are now held by foreign owners were back in British ownership there would be more chance of reaping the benefits, taxes paid into UK, employment of locals & not their own people being brought in from outside, plus the added spending power from the workers within their own economy.
He never makes one valid point by luck or design Dave, the Guardian does:rolleyes:

cmonstanley 09-06-2013 19:20
Re: who owns what?
 
its the same the Germans,French,Norwegian plus the middle east they 50% of our utilities no wonder we yes to everything they want.they control our economy now.its not just a coincidence energy prices keep rising when we are in recession .they are trying to bring the British public and industry to their knees.

GEaston 10-06-2013 02:27
Re: who owns what?
 
Why does it matter who owns them Stan ?

There's an implicit suggestion that these were formerly great industries contributing large profits to the exchequer. They weren't. The govt ran far too much, and watching the current MP scandals it's clear they can barely run themselves let alone large industries.

I'm pleased they are not owned or run by our government. If overseas companies can run them properly then good luck to them, I'm certain we can't. I defer to the Landrover story. Good initial design hampered by crap company management under British Leyland (state owned and state miss-managed). The last cars we produced (up to 2001) were the worst Land Rovers and Range Rovers ever produced and certainly the most unreliable. BMW bought the company and invested in it in 2002 - the Land Rovers and Range Rovers from 2003 onwards are superb. They sold it to Tata and we now produce more very high quality Land Rovers and Range Rovers than ever before. These are all made in Britain with British Jobs and exported to the world. Noone sees it as an Indian company even though it is.

On the security point, you can't walk out of the country with a sewer system in your bag. The infrastructure can be owned by the Germans or French or whoever but it stays here in the UK.

The bigger point here is that the money raised by all the privatisations was squandered by the last government who's wreckless spending over 12 years created the largest debt our country has had since World War 2.

Boeing Guy 10-06-2013 04:52
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GEaston (Post 1062241)
I defer to the Landrover story. Good initial design hampered by crap company management under British Leyland (state owned and state miss-managed). The last cars we produced (up to 2001) were the worst Land Rovers and Range Rovers ever produced and certainly the most unreliable. BMW bought the company and invested in it in 2002 - the Land Rovers and Range Rovers from 2003 onwards are superb. They sold it to Tata and we now produce more very high quality Land Rovers and Range Rovers than ever before. These are all made in Britain with British Jobs and exported to the world. Noone sees it as an Indian company even though it is.
Hate to be pedantic, but BMW bought Land Rover along with Rover in 1994, they sold Land Rover in 2006, having sold Rover in 2000. Ford bought them then sold them to Tata.
Land Rover is a global brand, who is to say they will be continued to be built in the UK, the newly revived MG isn't.

Boeing Guy 10-06-2013 05:25
Re: who owns what?
 
The problem is where does all the money go, if it is British owned then most of the money flows back into our country, Dyson for example, but similarly money flows out of the UK into the hands of foreign corporations and in doing so propping up that countries economy.
Whist I do not believe Nationalisation as the way forward, seeing our inept politicians allowing foreign corporations to purchase anything they want, I cannot argue against Cmonstanly on this one and in fact find myself agreeing with him.

GEaston 10-06-2013 06:36
Re: who owns what?
 
Time flies. My point is the brand is better than ever, more cars produced in the UK than ever and it's been in the dreaded "foreign ownership" since 1994.

MG were never a volume car manufacturer in the UK, but were another shining example of poor quality car production by a UK nationalised industry. If MG was the best we could do, then we should not be producing cars.

GEaston 10-06-2013 07:15
Re: who owns what?
 
What you don't touch on Stan is where this happens in reverse. The overseas companies that UK firms own. UK has always been one of the largest owners of overseas assets, and that continues to this day.

Royal Dutch Shell owns $271 billion of Foreign Assets
BP owns $244 billion of foreign assets
Vodaphone $224 billion of foreign assets

and so the list goes on (2010 numbers from the Office for National Statistics). Would you like to moan about that also ?

I'm sure there's Stanley equivalents overseas moaning about how the Brits own so much stuff. The Irish probably don't like that Guiness is a British Brand (Guiness is owned by Diageo - the worlds largest drinks manufacturer, which by the way is a British firm).

The real owners of overseas assets though are our banks:

HSBC owns $2,454 Billion of overseas assets
Barclays owns $2,322 Billion of overseas assets
RBS owns $2,262 Billion of overseas assets

so our top 3 banks (all top 10 global banks by size) own a staggering $7 trillion of overseas assets or enough to repay the entire UK national debt 5 times over.

So if our banks sneeze, that's a huge problem for the UK. Having such a large UK financial sector as we've all seen is in many ways unhealthy. However, when moaning about how "foreigners" are invading our shores and plundering our prized though mostly lossmaking nationalised industries the other part of the picture should also be considered - our ownership of johnny foreigner which is a large number.

Even with our broken banks the UK earns more on our investments abroad than foreigners earn from investments in us.

jaysay 10-06-2013 07:54
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GEaston (Post 1062249)
What you don't touch on Stan is where this happens in reverse. The overseas companies that UK firms own. UK has always been one of the largest owners of overseas assets, and that continues to this day.

Royal Dutch Shell owns $271 billion of Foreign Assets
BP owns $244 billion of foreign assets
Vodafone $224 billion of foreign assets

and so the list goes on (2010 numbers from the Office for National Statistics). Would you like to moan about that also ?

I'm sure there's Stanley equivalents overseas moaning about how the Brits own so much stuff. The Irish probably don't like that Genius is a British Brand (Guinness is owned by Diageo - the worlds largest drinks manufacturer, which by the way is a British firm).

The real owners of overseas assets though are our banks:

HSBC owns $2,454 Billion of overseas assets
Barclays owns $2,322 Billion of overseas assets
RBS owns $2,262 Billion of overseas assets

so our top 3 banks (all top 10 global banks by size) own a staggering $7 trillion of overseas assets or enough to repay the entire UK national debt 5 times over.

So if our banks sneeze, that's a huge problem for the UK. Having such a large UK financial sector as we've all seen is in many ways unhealthy. However, when moaning about how "foreigners" are invading our shores and plundering our prized though mostly loss making nationalised industries the other part of the picture should also be considered - our ownership of johnny foreigner which is a large number.

Even with our broken banks the UK earns more on our investments abroad than foreigners earn from investments in us.
Can't remember C'Mon pointing this out about the assets in foreign assets we own, well he wouldn't would he, its swings and roundabouts in economics, pity he's never grasped that

Boeing Guy 10-06-2013 08:42
Re: who owns what?
 
You forgot to say that Britain is the sixth ls largest exporter in the world.

Cmon's point was not about any of that, he is concerned about our infrastructure, these should be British owned else we could have a repeat of the 1970's, being held for ransom by the utility companies.

The reason the Chinese have resurrected the MG brand is simple, it is sportier than Rover.
As to quality, well if you want to drive of road try a Land Cruiser, or a Cayenne or even a Jeep. Range Rover is no longer thevehicle of choice.

Boeing Guy 10-06-2013 10:23
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GEaston (Post 1062248)
Time flies. My point is the brand is better than ever, more cars produced in the UK than ever and it's been in the dreaded "foreign ownership" since 1994.

MG were never a volume car manufacturer in the UK, but were another shining example of poor quality car production by a UK nationalised industry. If MG was the best we could do, then we should not be producing cars.
You need to get your facts straight. In 1972 we produced a record 1.92 million cars. The closest we have got to that figure was in 2000, then it was 1.80 million. Far from building more cars. ...

GEaston 10-06-2013 12:21
who owns what?
 
Back then they lasted about 3 years. Longer than your Dreamliner aircraft.

Boeing Guy 10-06-2013 12:47
Re: who owns what?
 
I really do hope that is good natured banter, not a personal dig.....
Right for the record, I fly the Boeing 737 300 Series to 900 Series.
The aircraft has been in production from the late 1960's and is the worlds most popular passenger Jet Aircraft not to mention the worlds safest.

The 787 uses British made landing gear and the Rolls Royce trent engine, which is a derivative of the world class RB211 (Made in Barnoldswick, hence the B).
Give it chance, it will be a world beater and game changer, Boeing are world beaters at this, shame it was not De havilland but there you go.

Personally I do not like the slowbus, it is not a Pilots Aircraft, just a systems operators.

Anyway I digress, this discussion was started regarding once Nationised industy, whist I do not wish to see a return to those days, it is sad that the 'powers that be' allowed foeign investors to take the silverware. Just as Gordon brown sold off the Gold.

GEaston 10-06-2013 14:11
who owns what?
 
Isn't that predominantly an American built aircraft? Rolls Royce Engines is a good point for the thread because they are building the most enormous manufacturing plant here in Singapore. Another good example for Stan of the Brits buying up Johnny Foreigners turf.....

Foreign investors bought the silverware and paid for it. Gordon Brown squandered it.

I see Sky news running the most misleading story I've seen in years. It's on this topic about Thames Water paying no tax on their £140m profit. What they don't say till the end is that they invested £1bn in infrastructure during the year so obviously the get tax breaks for that. Hey Stan, a privately owned corporation investing !

walkinman221 10-06-2013 16:34
Re: who owns what?
 
Thames water owned by Kemble Water (Australian). Privatised in 1989 probably not invested much in the system since then hence the £1 bn needed now perhaps.

DtheP47 10-06-2013 17:30
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boeing Guy (Post 1062265)
(Made in Barnoldswick, hence the B).
Give it chance, it will be a world beater and game changer, Boeing are world beaters at this, shame it was not De havilland but there you go.

.
The troubled 787 dontcha mean BG Lithium-Ion batteries and all. ;) Boeing were world beaters at this supported by a raft of home grown suppliers mom and pop shops included. Now with risk and revenue partners from Korea, Japan, Australia and Italy to name but 4 countries I can't agree with your axiom BG.

cmonstanley 10-06-2013 17:59
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GEaston (Post 1062271)
Isn't that predominantly an American built aircraft? Rolls Royce Engines is a good point for the thread because they are building the most enormous manufacturing plant here in Singapore. Another good example for Stan of the Brits buying up Johnny Foreigners turf.....

Foreign investors bought the silverware and paid for it. Gordon Brown squandered it.

I see Sky news running the most misleading story I've seen in years. It's on this topic about Thames Water paying no tax on their £140m profit. What they don't say till the end is that they invested £1bn in infrastructure during the year so obviously the get tax breaks for that. Hey Stan, a privately owned corporation investing !
they made a profit of £546 million thats after they pay their shareholder dividend they say they are spending £1 billion on infrastructure.who is checking they really are;)

jaysay 10-06-2013 18:44
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 1062297)
they made a profit of £546 million thats after they pay their shareholder dividend they say they are spending £1 billion on infrastructure.who is checking they really are;)
You've got a thing about shareholders, me thinks you suffer from that age old socialist nay Communist disease of Envy if I haven't got it why should they, sad really:rolleyes:

smobile 11-06-2013 06:57
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boeing Guy (Post 1062265)
I really do hope that is good natured banter, not a personal dig.....
Right for the record, I fly the Boeing 737 300 Series to 900 Series.
The aircraft has been in production from the late 1960's and is the worlds most popular passenger Jet Aircraft not to mention the worlds safest.

The 787 uses British made landing gear and the Rolls Royce trent engine, which is a derivative of the world class RB211 (Made in Barnoldswick, hence the B).
Give it chance, it will be a world beater and game changer, Boeing are world beaters at this, shame it was not De havilland but there you go.

.
We also build the entire fuel system for the B787 down here in Devon :)

GEaston 11-06-2013 07:54
Re: who owns what?
 
Fuel lines, didn't know that. I hope you don't have shareholders benefiting from that, or Stanley will get most upset !

Airbus wings are made in Britain, and they are bigger so Airbus is still better :)

Boeing Guy 11-06-2013 08:09
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GEaston (Post 1062326)
Airbus wings are made in Britain, and they are bigger so Airbus is still better :)
Speaking as a simple Aviator, I am not as knowledgeable as any passenger or armchair pilot.

Boeing's and all American built aircraft are built with the following principals.
1. The automation is there to aid the pilot, it is he/she who is in control
2. The aircraft are built for the ham fisted redneck pilot who will have no finesse when landing, in fact Boeing's are built to be 'banged in', a gentle landing is not recommended.

Airbus have a different view.
1. There aircraft is flown by its computers, the pilot is there to assist this.
2. They are designed to be handled and land with some finesse, they are not designed to be 'banged in'.


The key is in the Automation, who controls what. Personally I much prefer to have absolute authority rather than ask the very famous question 'What the h@ll is it doing now' (More frequent than you might think or want.)

The A380 may be bigger than the 747, but it is not a game changer.

jaysay 11-06-2013 08:23
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boeing Guy (Post 1062327)
Speaking as a simple Aviator, I am not as knowledgeable as any passenger or armchair pilot.

Boeing's and all American built aircraft are built with the following principals.
1. The automation is there to aid the pilot, it is he/she who is in control
2. The aircraft are built for the ham fisted redneck pilot who will have no finesse when landing, in fact Boeing's are built to be 'banged in', a gentle landing is not recommended.

Airbus have a different view.
1. There aircraft is flown by its computers, the pilot is there to assist this.
2. They are designed to be handled and land with some finesse, they are not designed to be 'banged in'.


The key is in the Automation, who controls what. Personally I much prefer to have absolute authority rather than ask the very famous question 'What the h@ll is it doing now' (More frequent than you might think or want.)

The A380 may be bigger than the 747, but it is not a game changer.
Don't think anyone can argue with a guy who flies these things for a living, after all its his arse on the line every time a plane leaves the tarmac, guess you know best Si;)so I'm not arguing with ya:)

DtheP47 11-06-2013 09:43
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boeing Guy (Post 1062327)
Speaking as a simple Aviator, I am not as knowledgeable as any passenger or armchair pilot.

Boeing's and all American built aircraft are built with the following principals.
1. The automation is there to aid the pilot, it is he/she who is in control
2. The aircraft are built for the ham fisted redneck pilot who will have no finesse when landing, in fact Boeing's are built to be 'banged in', a gentle landing is not recommended.

Airbus have a different view.
1. There aircraft is flown by its computers, the pilot is there to assist this.
2. They are designed to be handled and land with some finesse, they are not designed to be 'banged in'.


The key is in the Automation, who controls what. Personally I much prefer to have absolute authority rather than ask the very famous question 'What the h@ll is it doing now' (More frequent than you might think or want.)

The A380 may be bigger than the 747, but it is not a game changer.
With 40 odd years in the aerospace industry BG I am not sure the term "banged in" is a stress/design criteria ;) It's not one I have come across anyway.

Have a look at this archive link the pics don't do it justice but read the script and the comments aimed at that little ole US airplane maker.;)

787 - Problems Joining Fuselage Sections - Fuselage Gaps at Flightstory.net - Aviation Blog

Boeing Guy 11-06-2013 10:33
Re: who owns what?
 
I could not agree more. Boeing say the aircraft should have 'a positive landing' according to the FCTM.
Speaking as a pilot, I was trying to explain in simple laymans terms, as others not in the industry may not understand the term.
Lots of pilots use the term banged in to describe a firm not hard landing, fly Ryanair and you will see

Boeing are trying something new, it is bound to have teething problems, just as the A380 has had.
Thr world needs more than one huge aircraft maker, it promotes competition.

DtheP47 11-06-2013 11:22
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boeing Guy (Post 1062344)
Lots of pilots use the term banged in to describe a firm not hard landing, fly Ryanair and you will see

Thr world needs more than one huge aircraft maker, it promotes competition.
Miles off thread we are BG... I have the dubious pleasure of flying to Skavsta with Mr O'Leary's mob quite frequently...don't get me started about the trumpet fanfares ;)

GEaston 11-06-2013 11:32
who owns what?
 
The A380 is by far the quietest plane I've ever been in. I seek it out long haul from here and is better than the alternative 777s. I'll be retired before the 787 gets to this route. I think I'm right in saying that more of the A380 is built in the UK than the Boeing but defer to greater knowledge on that subject.

Anyway we were pointing out to Stan that the economy has in fact grown since 1970, and that shareholder ownership is on balance a good thing, not a curse. Just a pity that the custodians of our countries wealth for 12 years got a credit card and overspent...

accyman 11-06-2013 15:41
Re: who owns what?
 
never mind what companies we own the way haig is going on with his spy network spying on us we wont even be allowed to own an oppinion

Boeing Guy 11-06-2013 15:47
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GEaston (Post 1062348)
I think I'm right in saying that more of the A380 is built in the UK than the Boeing but defer to greater knowledge on that subject.
A380 just the Wings
B787 25%, Landing Gear, Seats, Fuel Systems.
Both available with Rolls Royce Engines.

DtheP47 I too have had the dubious pleasure of flying on the Golden Harp, Cannot stand the dammed announcements....

DtheP47 11-06-2013 17:03
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boeing Guy (Post 1062373)
A380 just the Wings
B787 25%, Landing Gear, Seats, Fuel Systems.
Both available with Rolls Royce Engines.

DtheP47 I too have had the dubious pleasure of flying on the Golden Harp, Cannot stand the dammed announcements....
787 UK suppliers you have missed BG
Claverham (Nitrogen Fire Suppression)
GKN - Aerospace. De-Icing System
Goodrich - Nacelles
GE Aviation - Power Distribution
Qinetic and Cranfeild - Aerodynamic research
Thales UK - Flight Sim and training

mmm the Golden Harp :rolleyes: that and SleasyJets colour schemes give me headaches ;)

jaysay 11-06-2013 17:07
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by accyman (Post 1062370)
never mind what companies we own the way haig is going on with his spy network spying on us we wont even be allowed to own an oppinion
And that doesn't warrant a sensible comment;)

DaveinGermany 11-06-2013 17:26
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boeing Guy (Post 1062327)
Speaking as a simple Aviator,
It's Glenn Quagmire in person! :D

Alright ..... Giggity, giggity, giggity!

Glenn Quagmire - YouTube

Sorry Si, couldn't resist it mate, can't help but think of you every time I see "Family Guy" on the telly. :)

cashman 11-06-2013 18:18
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 1062381)
And that doesn't warrant a sensible comment;)
He aint likely to get one either from you.:rofl38::rofl38::rofl38::rofl38:

DtheP47 11-06-2013 20:00
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by accyman (Post 1062370)
never mind what companies we own the way haig is going on with his spy network spying on us we wont even be allowed to own an oppinion
The vast majority of peeps have nothing to hide and we should be grateful the Home Secretary is seeking out threats to this country. The intelligence services were criticised for allowing the Woolwich suspects to drop off the radar. Now the same services are being criticised for snooping. You can't have it both ways Mr A
Only those who have an inflated opinion of the importance of their utterances or the paranoid have any need to be concerned I reckon.

cmonstanley 11-06-2013 20:08
Re: who owns what?
 
economy grown, no tax receipts are down and that is with a bigger population something is seriously wrong;) so its ok to have millions unemployed.

accyman 11-06-2013 21:11
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DtheP47 (Post 1062391)
The vast majority of peeps have nothing to hide and we should be grateful the Home Secretary is seeking out threats to this country. The intelligence services were criticised for allowing the Woolwich suspects to drop off the radar. Now the same services are being criticised for snooping. You can't have it both ways Mr A
Only those who have an inflated opinion of the importance of their utterances or the paranoid have any need to be concerned I reckon.
if thats how you want it perhaps a move to russia for you would be best

just like anti terrorism laws this spy thing will be abused

DtheP47 12-06-2013 00:12
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by accyman (Post 1062401)
if thats how you want it perhaps a move to russia for you would be best

just like anti terrorism laws this spy thing will be abused
General David Petraeus back when he was a general ;) had a simple litmus test for each operation. Ask the question. "Will this operation (or policy) take more bad guys off the street than it creates by it's conduct?"

Applied cold eyed, realistically and professionally that'll do for me Mr A

jaysay 12-06-2013 08:46
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashman (Post 1062385)
He aint likely to get one either from you.:rofl38::rofl38::rofl38::rofl38:
And by the left you either:p:p:p

jaysay 12-06-2013 08:48
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DtheP47 (Post 1062391)
The vast majority of peeps have nothing to hide and we should be grateful the Home Secretary is seeking out threats to this country. The intelligence services were criticised for allowing the Woolwich suspects to drop off the radar. Now the same services are being criticised for snooping. You can't have it both ways Mr A
Only those who have an inflated opinion of the importance of their utterances or the paranoid have any need to be concerned I reckon.
AM likes his cake and eats it Mr. D. but just ignore him, he'll go away eventually:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

DtheP47 12-06-2013 08:55
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 1062418)
AM likes his cake and eats it Mr. D. but just ignore him, he'll go away eventually:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Nowt wrong with pithy dialogue Jay ;)
I am waiting for him to tell me Haig's the Foreign Sec' not the Home Sec' ;)

jaysay 12-06-2013 09:01
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DtheP47 (Post 1062421)
Nowt wrong with pithy dialogue Jay ;)
I am waiting for him to tell me Haig's the Foreign Sec' not the Home Sec' ;)
And I'm waiting for him to tell me who haig actually is:rolleyes:

cashman 12-06-2013 09:04
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 1062425)
And I'm waiting for him to tell me who haig actually is:rolleyes:
Oh i can answer that,Haig is a useless bald, ass kissing git, wi no personality n very little talent.:rolleyes:

DtheP47 12-06-2013 09:13
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashman (Post 1062427)
Oh i can answer that,Haig is a useless bald, ass kissing git, wi no personality n very little talent.:rolleyes:
Pithy dialogue indeed Ol ;)
As my old mate Wandering Walter used to say " Water finds it's own level"

cashman 12-06-2013 09:17
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DtheP47 (Post 1062428)
Pithy dialogue indeed Ol ;)
As my old mate Wandering Walter used to say " Water finds it's own level"
Perhaps, but then its also plain speaking truth.;)

jaysay 12-06-2013 09:24
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashman (Post 1062427)
Oh i can answer that,Haig is a useless bald, ass kissing git, wi no personality n very little talent.:rolleyes:
I don't know him either;)

Gordon Booth 12-06-2013 09:45
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashman (Post 1062427)
Oh i can answer that,Haig is a useless bald, ass kissing git, wi no personality n very little talent.:rolleyes:
Hey cashman, what's wrong with being bald? Don't knock it, its a sign of high testosterone levels.
I know that's a fact- I'm bald.

cashman 12-06-2013 09:50
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Booth (Post 1062436)
Hey cashman, what's wrong with being bald? Don't knock it, its a sign of high testosterone levels.
I know that's a fact- I'm bald.
Didn't say there was owt wrong wi it, just a description of a useless get.

DtheP47 12-06-2013 10:08
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashman (Post 1062438)
Didn't say there was owt wrong wi it, just a description of a useless get.
Who would ya put in his place then Mr C..... ?
John Whitaker Straw.. he served us well eh?

DtheP47 12-06-2013 10:14
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Booth (Post 1062436)
Hey cashman, what's wrong with being bald? Don't knock it, its a sign of high testosterone levels.
I know that's a fact- I'm bald.
I thought it was with rubbing it too often on the bed head during bonking ...come to think of it, same thing :rolleyes:

MargaretR 12-06-2013 10:17
Re: who owns what?
 
2 Attachment(s)
Two Independant cartoons in the past week sum him up nicely

Less 12-06-2013 10:21
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Booth (Post 1062436)
Hey cashman, what's wrong with being bald? Don't knock it, its a sign of high testosterone levels.
I know that's a fact- I'm bald.
Do you think I'll be able to use that as mitigating circumstances if ever I'm dragged screaming to court for verbally abusing a feminist?
:confused:

DtheP47 12-06-2013 10:26
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Less (Post 1062444)
Do you think I'll be able to use that as mitigating circumstances if ever I'm dragged screaming to court for verbally abusing a feminist?
:confused:
3 strikes and you are out Less ;)

accyman 12-06-2013 11:14
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 1062425)
And I'm waiting for him to tell me who haig actually is:rolleyes:

a bit rich you picking someone up on spelling lol

anyway spying on peoples emails wont stop terrorism its just yet another excuse to take away our freedoms.People like yourself may not value privacey and freedom and other luxuries of not living in a dictatorship but some of us do

theres those that say if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about so i am assuming these people dont have curtains on their windows either as they dont need privacey as they have nothing to hide

cashman 12-06-2013 11:58
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DtheP47 (Post 1062441)
Who would ya put in his place then Mr C..... ?
John Whitaker Straw.. he served us well eh?
He was another useless get n complete waster in my book.The party does not matter a jot to me, a t0sser is a t0sser.:rolleyes:

DtheP47 12-06-2013 12:15
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by accyman (Post 1062448)
anyway spying on peoples emails wont stop terrorism its just yet another excuse to take away our freedoms.People like yourself may not value privacey and freedom and other luxuries of not living in a dictatorship but some of us do
We have long since passed the point of no return Mr A as far as "dark forces" snooping on you and your Ocado order. A century ago it meant a steaming kettle in the customs shed at Dover to open the odd letter from the continent. Now we have supercomputers able to mine vast stockpiles of data, quickly for clues that might prevent a terrorist disaster.
What's not to like?

cashman 12-06-2013 12:23
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DtheP47 (Post 1062461)
We have long since passed the point of no return Mr A as far as "dark forces" snooping on you and your Ocado order. A century ago it meant a steaming kettle in the customs shed at Dover to open the odd letter from the continent. Now we have supercomputers able to mine vast stockpiles of data, quickly for clues that might prevent a terrorist disaster.
What's not to like?
Well yeh we sure have advanced a bit since way back, Not always fer the better though, They didn't really need fancy detection devices fer terrorists back then, cos the threats were not as many or heavy? It makes me wonder why we need em now ( which obviously we do) Perhaps greed has a bearing on the reason?

accyman 12-06-2013 12:28
Re: who owns what?
 
point is dthep47 simply scanning through our emails wont acheive anything the terrorists are aware of what snooping procedures are in place .There are many ways to hide data or messages from encryption to enbedding code in jpg images that could take years to decrypt without the correct encryption key.

at best snooping on peoples emails will catch people wanting to organise a protest about fuel prices or something which isnt what they are saying its for.

maybe teh security threat to the UK would be a lot less if the UK government stopped sticking its nose in where it has no place and starting illigal wars ?

cashman 12-06-2013 12:32
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by accyman (Post 1062465)


maybe teh security threat to the UK would be a lot less if the UK government stopped sticking its nose in where it has no place and starting illigal wars ?
Without any doubt to me that is 100% accurate.

DtheP47 12-06-2013 12:51
Re: who owns what?
 
[QUOTE=accyman;1062465]
at best snooping on peoples emails will catch people wanting to organise a protest about fuel prices or something which isnt what they are saying its for.

QUOTE]
You acnnot be serious Mr A consider all the emails, tweets, facebook updates, Tesco Clubcard Points, Subway loyalty card info, dental records CCTV footage and every bit of information entered into a computer anywhere. Big data is a boon to some but I reckon the techies at GCHQ have sharpened their act to home in on the data haystack to find the needle that might save lives somewhere rather than fuel protesters.;)

accyman 12-06-2013 13:02
Re: who owns what?
 
if snooping on innocent people worked there wouldnt have been any terrorist attacks to date.As the snoopers improve so do the criminals and terrorists.

rather than rely on pure luck that someone sends a dodgy email and assuming that everyone is guilty of something how about good old fashioned proof taht someone needs monitoring then monitoring that person and his aquaintances.

i can hardly see a determined terrorist setting his facebook status to "gone bombing brb "

Less 12-06-2013 13:07
who owns what?
 
If they perfect a way of trapping terrorists via emails the terrorists will do what every government does and send messages by courier.
Until then I've no real worries about them reading my emails, what the hey, if they want to, I'll even CC them, they'll soon get bored and beg me to stop.

accyman 12-06-2013 13:34
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Less (Post 1062479)
If they perfect a way of trapping terrorists via emails the terrorists will do what every government does and send messages by courier.
Until then I've no real worries about them reading my emails, what the hey, if they want to, I'll even CC them, they'll soon get bored and beg me to stop.
iv sent you a reply to your comment via pigeon :D

DtheP47 12-06-2013 13:34
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by accyman (Post 1062477)
if snooping on innocent people worked there wouldnt have been any terrorist attacks to date.As the snoopers improve so do the criminals and terrorists.
"
And thereby lies the nub Mr A ..they are not snooping on innocent people.
To quote Mr Hague "This is not a casual process. Threats against us are launched in secret, so the methods to combat them must be secret too"
To paraphrase him " There is too much information out there for anyone to be able to tell us what is right or wrong"

Less 12-06-2013 13:37
who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by accyman (Post 1062480)
iv sent you a reply to your comment via pigeon :D
It hasn't arrived yet, do you suppose it might just have diverted to crap on Queen Vics statue over in Blackburn?

DtheP47 12-06-2013 13:40
Re: who owns what?
 
[QUOTE=Less;1062479]If they perfect a way of trapping terrorists via emails the terrorists will do what every government does and send messages by courier.
QUOTE]

Already happening Less... Bin Laden stopped using email and relied on couriers that's how they found him. true they monitored Abu Ahmed's phone traffic but physically followed him to the house in Abbotobad.

Less 12-06-2013 13:44
who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DtheP47 (Post 1062484)

Already happening Less... Bin Laden stopped using email and relied on couriers that's how they found him. true they monitored Abu Ahmed's phone traffic but physically followed him to the house in Abbotobad.
Well there you go, perhaps this is why accymans pigeon hasn't arrived?
It knew it was being followed.

cashman 12-06-2013 13:44
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DtheP47 (Post 1062481)
And thereby lies the nub Mr A ..they are not snooping on innocent people.
Never had yeh down as Naive D?:confused:

accyman 12-06-2013 13:48
Re: who owns what?
 
america are years ahead of us on abusing civil liberties and they didnt stop 9/11

DtheP47 12-06-2013 13:58
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashman (Post 1062486)
Never had yeh down as Naive D?:confused:
Not naive Ol realistic... we provide information willingly everytime we swipe our travel pass* or click to agree to a websites terms without bothering to read em'.
GCHQ really havent the time or inclination to read the minutia of peoples lives, they have developed tools/programmes to home in on threats..

But hey we are all experts now, as the growth in data runs parallel with the growth of individual power using the internet as the magnifier. We as I say are all experts, campaigners empowered to act when we think we are right and the state is wrong.

*Must apply for that bus pass current Mrs P been nagging me for ages.;)

Less 12-06-2013 14:03
who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DtheP47 (Post 1062489)

*Must apply for that bus pass current Mrs P been nagging me for ages.;)
Be afraid, be very afraid!
She could be a government plank, (as Jay would say).
:)

DtheP47 12-06-2013 14:05
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Less (Post 1062490)
She could be a government plank, (as Jay would say).
:)
She reckons I've been walking all over her for years Less ;)

cashman 12-06-2013 14:12
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DtheP47 (Post 1062489)
Not naive Ol realistic... we provide information willingly everytime we swipe our travel pass* or click to agree to a websites terms without bothering to read em'.
GCHQ really havent the time or inclination to read the minutia of peoples lives, they have developed tools/programmes to home in on threats..

But hey we are all experts now, as the growth in data runs parallel with the growth of individual power using the internet as the magnifier. We as I say are all experts, campaigners empowered to act when we think we are right and the state is wrong.

*Must apply for that bus pass current Mrs P been nagging me for ages.;)
Have to disagree D, naive is my reasoning, As i know yer a well educated guy, Then i am near certain yeh must know what was going on in the 80s n probably before that? Ordinary people having telephones tapped, not because they were terrorists or a danger to peoples lives, Simply because they were Trade Union activsts, as lowly as shop stewards even n that is FACT. If that aint snooping or abuse of power, then i shudder to think what is?:rolleyes:

DtheP47 12-06-2013 14:27
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashman (Post 1062495)
Have to disagree D, naive is my reasoning, As i know yer a well educated guy, Then i am near certain yeh must know what was going on in the 80s n probably before that? Ordinary people having telephones tapped, not because they were terrorists or a danger to peoples lives, Simply because they were Trade Union activsts, as lowly as shop stewards even n that is FACT. If that aint snooping or abuse of power, then i shudder to think what is?:rolleyes:
Not gonna argue with you on that Mr C but the world turns, the world changes... this is the now matey.

DP whispers to Ol: Probably the subject of or should be another thread but some of those Trade Unionists needed watching back in the day ;) oh no done it now Mog will be down on me like a ton of Nori's ;)

cashman 12-06-2013 14:33
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DtheP47 (Post 1062497)
Not gonna argue with you on that Mr C but the world turns, the world changes... this is the now matey.

DP whispers to Ol: Probably the subject of or should be another thread but some of those Trade Unionists needed watching back in the day ;) oh no done it now Mog will be down on me like a ton of Nori's ;)
Thats what i base naive on D, certainly this is the now, but to think these snakes are any less dangerous now is very naive to me.;) Greed n People with money very rarely change.

accyman 12-06-2013 14:34
Re: who owns what?
 
with all the proven corruption past and present i find it hard to believe anyone can have such blind trust in any government to play fair ,keep their word or even have any understanding of common decencey

most of them are unpunished criminals and have been bribed, commited fraud on a gigantic scale and much more

hell our own MP cant even keep his word what makes any of teh others likely to be any better

Less 12-06-2013 14:45
who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by accyman (Post 1062499)
with all the proven corruption past and present i find it hard to believe anyone can have such blind trust in any government to play fair ,keep their word or even have any understanding of common decencey

most of them are unpunished criminals and have been bribed, commited fraud on a gigantic scale and much more

hell our own MP cant even keep his word what makes any of teh others likely to be any better
Well, if that is the case I hope when they read my emails they realise I'm open to corruption and bribes, it would be nice to have a decent pay packet for a change.

accyman 12-06-2013 14:47
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Less (Post 1062501)
Well, if that is the case I hope when they read my emails they realise I'm open to corruption and bribes, it would be nice to have a decent pay packet for a change.
did you see panorama last week the going rate for a crooked MP is £1000 per hour

and this particualr tory MP was screwing over his home town in the process so its not just limited to labour

Less 12-06-2013 14:54
who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by accyman (Post 1062502)
did you see panorama last week the going rate for a crooked MP is £1000 per hour

and this particualr tory MP was screwing over his home town in the process so its not just limited to labour
No I didn't but they can have me on board for a quarter of that price!

In fact, they don't have to read my emails just contact me,

[email protected]

My signature is:-

Whom do I have to kill for that sort of money?

DtheP47 12-06-2013 15:00
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashman (Post 1062498)
Thats what i base naive on D, certainly this is the now, but to think these snakes are any less dangerous now is very naive to me.;) Greed n People with money very rarely change.
You are deluding yourself Ol if you think that privacy can be protected in this modern age. It's not about grey men with earphones hiding in lofts listening to our bedtime conversations while large reel to reel tapes turn silently in the background anymore. This week 3 mobile phone providers agreed to pool data they hold about their users to target advertisements at them.
Schmidt the chairman of Google confirmed to the audience at the Hay festival that there was a patent out on a pill which when swallowed would beam information about our bodies to computers by WiFi
You need to keep up with reality Ol ther's no going back.

DtheP47 12-06-2013 15:15
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashman (Post 1062498)
Greed n People with money very rarely change.
Here's an example of greed and profit for you Mr C

Ship which sank off Welsh coast was 'heavily overloaded', says report - North Wales Weekly News

Eric 12-06-2013 15:37
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 1062416)
And by the left you either:p:p:p
I've tried everywhere on the net; but nothing will help me translate this into English, Lancashire, or Canadian.:confused:

DtheP47 12-06-2013 15:40
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric (Post 1062507)
I've tried everywhere on the net; but nothing will help me translate this into English, Lancashire, or Canadian.:confused:
Nay nay Eric... have you never heard by the left used to emphasise something.

As in to a cheeky kid " By the left I'll give you what for"

Less 12-06-2013 15:50
who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DtheP47 (Post 1062508)
Nay nay Eric... have you never heard by the left used to emphasise something.

As in to a cheeky kid " By the left I'll give you what for"
It was in code to get past the government spies they are everywhere.

accyman 12-06-2013 16:34
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Less (Post 1062509)
It was in code to get past the government spies they are everywhere.

as soon as the governments spy machine reaches jaysays computer the whole network will come to a halt :D

jaysay 12-06-2013 17:09
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by accyman (Post 1062448)
a bit rich you picking someone up on spelling lol

anyway spying on peoples emails wont stop terrorism its just yet another excuse to take away our freedoms.People like yourself may not value privacey and freedom and other luxuries of not living in a dictatorship but some of us do

theres those that say if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about so i am assuming these people dont have curtains on their windows either as they dont need privacey as they have nothing to hide
:rofl38::rofl38::rofl38::rofl38: That's a bit rich for somebody who bares his soul on facebook everyday, no need to hack Emails just take a look what you've posted for the world and his wife to see:D:D

DaveinGermany 12-06-2013 17:52
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Less (Post 1062503)
Whom do I have to kill for that sort of money?
Think you may have misunderstood there Less, when they said there's lots of backstabbing going on, they didn't actually mean with knives! :eek:

DtheP47 12-06-2013 18:49
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 1062519)
:rofl38::rofl38::rofl38::rofl38: That's a bit rich for somebody who bares his soul on facebook everyday, no need to hack Emails just take a look what you've posted for the world and his wife to see:D:D
Brilliante Mr J.:D By the left* you are so right.
Our right to privacy is of course a democratic principle, then the lunatics who would take over the asylum post all but and maybe even their bowel movements on FB for all to see.

I trust Mr Hague to protect that right and the balance between surveillance of suspected terrorist activity that is necessary and our basic freedoms.

n.b Canadian Tourist and Immigration attache ;)

Less 12-06-2013 18:53
who owns what?
 
Not quite true, for example, my bowel movements are there for all to see on utube I have class.

DtheP47 12-06-2013 19:36
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Less (Post 1062538)
Not quite true, for example, my bowel movements are there for all to see on utube I have a class.
Does the social know you are giving classes on that faceTube for bowel movements Less.......?
Watch out there are snoopers about..even on here ;)

Less 12-06-2013 19:48
who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DtheP47 (Post 1062549)
Does the social know you are giving classes on that faceTube for bowel movements Less.......?
Watch out there are snoopers about..even on here ;)
They won't bother me I only do it for peanuts, have you seen my video on pebble dashing?

DtheP47 12-06-2013 21:05
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Less (Post 1062552)
, have you seen my video on pebble dashing?
No but seen the one of you putting the double yellow lines outside the Railway it's an internet sensation and gone viral. ;)

accyman 12-06-2013 21:14
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 1062519)
:rofl38::rofl38::rofl38::rofl38: That's a bit rich for somebody who bares his soul on facebook everyday, no need to hack Emails just take a look what you've posted for the world and his wife to see:D:D
there is nothing on my facebook page that i dont want people on my friends list to know about.Strangers can not view my posts except posts i make on a comunity wall such as hyndburn chat or moorhead high school

there is no address

there is no telephone number and my details apart from my name are false

i most certainly do not bare my soul on facebook unless typing that i am grabbing a beer is deemed as doing so but occasionally i do have a rant and post jokes and pictures i couldnt possibly be allowed to do here.

facebook is a choice and you get to choose what you type on it for others to see.Government want to read everything you type which is a completely different matter

if teh world and his wife can see what your typing perhaps you should alter a few settings but i can assure you people only see what i want them to see

accyman 12-06-2013 21:19
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DtheP47 (Post 1062563)
No but seen the one of you putting the double yellow lines outside the Railway it's an internet sensation and gone viral. ;)
he had help with that i think it was mick who provided teh second line :):D

jaysay 13-06-2013 07:35
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DtheP47 (Post 1062535)
Brillante Mr J.:D By the left* you are so right.
Our right to privacy is of course a democratic principle, then the lunatics who would take over the asylum post all but and maybe even their bowel movements on FB for all to see.

I trust Mr Hague to protect that right and the balance between surveillance of suspected terrorist activity that is necessary and our basic freedoms.

n.b Canadian Tourist and Immigration attache ;)
Thought you'd appreciate that accyman:D I can't really think that GCHQ will have the slightest interest in our email accounts, that is unless we suddenly change our names to Ali and Mustaffa, then they might get a bit suspicious :D

GEaston 18-06-2013 00:19
who owns what?
 
Your emails are read by computer algorithms searching for patterns. If you shout Ali Akbar 5 times in an email I recon you flag to be read, and so they should. Most people's inane ramblings, including those on forums like this will never be seen.

I for one am happy that this monitoring takes place. I commit no crimes, and plan no crimes and therefore have no concerns about what a GCHQ computer makes of my emails/texts.

MargaretR 18-06-2013 04:18
Re: who owns what?
 
What is and is not a crime can change according to the whims of the government of the day.

As control tightens on all aspects of our lives, and now includes what you say and think (eg.racism), what makes you think that the control may stop there?

There could come a day when what you wear and how you smell could be regarded as offensive and a 'crime' - sounds extreme doesn't it?, but possible.

In one country, and in my lifetime, it was an offence for persons of one particular religious faith not to wear a visible symbol to indicate that fact.

You may well approve of some behaviour being categorised as 'crime' - such as the rules on wearing seat belts, not phoning whilst driving, not smoking in public places, not disturbing neighbours, but in their drive to increase revenue in fines, who knows what will be a crime next.

jaysay 18-06-2013 08:23
Re: who owns what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MargaretR (Post 1063235)
What is and is not a crime can change according to the whims of the government of the day.

As control tightens on all aspects of our lives, and now includes what you say and think (eg.racism), what makes you think that the control may stop there?

There could come a day when what you wear and how you smell could be regarded as offensive and a 'crime' - sounds extreme doesn't it?, but possible.

In one country, and in my lifetime, it was an offence for persons of one particular religious faith not to wear a visible symbol to indicate that fact.

You may well approve of some behaviour being categorised as 'crime' - such as the rules on wearing seat belts, not phoning whilst driving, not smoking in public places, not disturbing neighbours, but in their drive to increase revenue in fines, who knows what will be a crime next.
I'll tell you what if GCHQ had to snoop on every Tom Dick or Abdul's emails they be recruiting a hell of a lot more people and using a lot bigger buildings to house um all, like I've always maintain if anybody wants to take a peck into my emails I'll copy um:rolleyes:


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