Re: Crematorium
 

What we do not know, we cannot comment on.
I just think it was distasteful for a deceased member(whom Ken presumed, rightly or wrongly, would have agreed with him) to be brought into the discussion.....with the aim of scoring points.
I think that is a cheap shot and one which Ken should not have used.

What ever wranglings happened in the council chamber, it should have been foreseen that the removal of the cross would have repercussions.(and any political party will make as much mileage out of the situation as they can...that is the nature of politics.....whether it be local or national)
And to justify the act as 'following government guidelines' is just a fudge.

Guidelines are just that...they are not an edict......and that is because the government hope that local representatives will know and understand the feelings of their local voters.......and do what they feel is in accord with what local people will accept.
Just because many people do not profess a religion does not mean that they will be offended by the religious artefacts that may be present in crematoria.

We are all tolerant of other peoples religions yet we want to wipe the Christian religion out of daily life(this is the religion on which the fabric of this country was built)...how sad!

Re: Crematorium
 

Well said MargaretP, Fudge is the correct term, no doubt. I'm beginning to seriously wonder the reason some folk are using that as an angle.:rolleyes:

Re: Crematorium
 

No the original decision was doing what most Councils have done and followed government guidelines as expected to do. A removeable cross in a non religious crematorium is logical. The building looks like a church but it isn't.

Those against a cross being taken off the wall and put on the table fell for a game played out by a few for their gain not the people of Hyndburn.

I think you would be annoyed at yourself if you realised who you'd been supporting.

Re: Crematorium
 

Do you have figures to back up this statement?

Re: Crematorium
 

That i do not believe at all, unless you can prove otherwise.

Re: Crematorium
 

Would that person have the initials PB by any chance?

And my feelings are not that I support anyone elses views, but that I think it was misguided to remove the cross because it causes very little in the way of offence to people who are bereaved(and the fact that councils have followed government guidelines slavishly at the expense of the communities they serve says much about the mindless sheep that make up these councils)...they have other things on their mind.

At the end of all the shenanigans the apology(if that is what it was ) came too late and seemed to be given grudgingly......not the mark of an honorable person at all.......yes, I know there is little honour in politics.

Re: Crematorium
 

Nope, I'm taking Ken at his word.

Re: Crematorium
 

Ken already mentioned Peter so thats a given. It was what others did that I was disappointed by.

You can't really apologise for doing something wrong until a different solution has been found and implemented. What if the original solution was decided in the end to be the correct solution after apologising for it? I've confused myself but you probably get what I mean

Re: Crematorium
 

Well sorry, seeing how he used Jaysays name to aid him, i certainly wouldn't!! once of a time i would have took his word, no doubt.

Re: Crematorium
 

If you mean that the correct solution was reinstating the cross......well, the problem would not have arisen if it had not been removed in the first place...and I know that it was said to have been removed for the crematorium to be decorated........but, if that was the case and someone made mischief by saying that the cross was being removed for other reasons, then that should come to light, and the mischief makers named.

If the cross was being put back after the decorations then there was no story to tell and nothing to apologise for.
As for the cross being too heavy to move...it did not need to be moved at all...all it needed was for it to be on the wall, a curtain runner placed above it......a velvet curtain in subtle colours put onto the runner and hey presto...anyone who wants the cross to be out of view and the curtain can be pulled across to save offending anyone who felt it to be inappropriate.

That there is more to this story than we are being told surprises no-one......but truthfully we can only comment on what we know.....what we are told bu those who know the truth......the response on here has been of that order.
Whatever the discussion on some other forum cannot be of any relevance here.

Re: Crematorium
 

Mischief always goes on behind the scenes, its called Politics, The buck stops with the person who made the decision, not rocket science or bullshine either.

Re: Crematorium
 

Most councils? Government guidelines?

Looking at our nearest neighbours...Blackburn, Burnley, Pendle, Rossendale....none of which have done this, or attempted to do this..and I can't find evidence of any other local council in the UK doing this either.

And frankly I've also searched gov.uk and although I've found many relating to crematoria, I have found none that advocate removing religious sybolism...

But I'm prepared to be corrected if your 'sources', 'in the know' mates or imaginary friend can point me to them..or have you just taken them at their word too?

And I don't care if political capital was gained or not by openly publicising this travesty of intelligence...we had to put up with so many threads from this particular councillor 'slagging off' the opposition at every opportunity before he was in power (pot and kettle spring readily to mind).

Re: Crematorium
 

I think the cross should be removeable. Religion shouldn't be stuffed down anyones throat.

I think they way they went about it and how they decided to do it was poor

Re: Crematorium
 

The cross isn't the problem, it has been there causing no problems whatsoever.

I have no personal religion, some do, it has already, earlier in the thread been shown that other religions didn't have a problem with it. How? by the number of complaints about the cross being there.

The crem' is where I, and most of us will end up, when it's my turn I really won't care if it's a cross, the star of David or an old betting slip that is on display.

What annoy's me is that the guy that took the wrong decision (perhaps he shouldn't rely on his advisor's?) complains that we do nothing but moan when he gets things wrong. Maybe he should listen to the Accrington six? We won't go out of our way to push him into his next embarrassing decision.

Re: Crematorium
 

Thats it in a nutshell,!! Seems to me someone has summat to gain by supporting K.Moss?

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I don't think anyone is trying to stuff religion down anyone's throat.
When you are at a funeral, even a humanist one......does the religious symbolism of the cross really offend anyone?
And in the congregation there may be some who have no strong religious beliefs, but there mya be others who do have spiritual beliefs.......so who do you please?

My solution to those who feel the the religious symbol is not appropriate is simple, would cost very little and would be easy to maintain.

Re: Crematorium
 

Do the local politician types seek the opinion of 'normal' people around them and some of those who elected them before reaching decisions on such matters?
I am sure that forums such as this could give a far more accurate view of public opinion than any guideline issued by the out of touch politicians who represent us.

Why did the cross have to be removed in the first place, a proper painter could have covered it up and easily painted round it.

Re: Crematorium
 

Exactly a curtain, sod all else required.

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And here we have another politician who has a problem with numbers.......although the other one was 95% wasn't it?

Re: Crematorium
 

I'm 95% certain thats correct.:D

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Yes he has problems, I think the loneliness of being in such a high profile and responsible position are what actually dragged him back to our humble site.

After all if as he tried to imply there are only six of us that post on here why should such a political success even bother to come on site to berate us for his mistakes?

WE just aren't worthy...


...Of the blame.

Re: Crematorium
 

Well, Cashy...I am 100% certain.

Re: Crematorium
 

Perhaps if the politicians sought the opinion of his or her electorate we might have a bit more respect for them.

Our representatives here have the same mind set, they believe that because we elected them, we will support them in whatever they do.

Re: Crematorium
 

Less......I don't think he likes us overmuch and he has been a bit sneery about those who post on here.......accusing us of negativity, when what was really happening was that the members were being realistic about how they saw things. We don't have the advantage of his rose coloured spectacles.

Re: Crematorium
 

Are they our representatives?

The older I get the more examples I seem to witness that they represent themselves, always hoping for good press even when they don't deserve it and ready to blame others when they get thrown off a small facebook page.

It must be really, really, frustrating that after being thrown off said page the only way he can complain about it is by coming onto a site that he seems to hold in equal disdain.

Re: Crematorium
 

Ah but he quite liked it when they were in opposition,as i recall.

Re: Crematorium
 

They are our officially elected representatives, whether they actually represent us or not is another issue.

Re: Crematorium
 

The only thing being stuffed down peoples throat on this particular thread is the 'Nuremberg defence', from both you and the councillor 'Everyvon else vaz doing it and I vaz only obeying ze orders'

I expect the 'voices in my head' defence will be the next one :rolleyes:

Re: Crematorium
 

He certainly did, seemed to have something to say on everything. No doubt someone will be sending him another Email telling him how nasty we are being to him.:rolleyes: