Crematorium
 

Heard a rumor that Hynburn Crematorium is having the Cross removed so it that doesn't up set minority groups living in Hynburn.. Has anyone else heard if its true....

Re: Crematorium
 

not having its gone

from what i can make out the decision has been reversed but instead of restoring the large cross a piddly little cross will be available and slung under a shelf if anyone wants it removing

like or dislike peter britcliffe he acted on this and raised awareness of it so it couldn't quietly slip by

just your usual insensitive councilor coming up with anything he can to grab a headline and get his name in the press regardless of how many people he causes upset to

i doubt he would have insulted the muslim faith in this way but hey ho its only christians been offended and if the full cross isnt restored as to how it has been for many years the people of Hyndburn will know exactly how little he thinks of the people he came to live among

£2000 to remove a cross and slap a bit of white paint on the walls then pee off a whole district - bargain

just a note

no muslims complained nor did anyone else he thought this up all off his own bat although he did use the jehovas and atheists to justify his decision

his next stunt will be removing the crosses off hot cross buns

ps:

ken moss is the man in question .... yeah that one

Re: Crematorium
 

You do surprise me, I thought Ken was one of the more "balanced" of the labour luvvie lefties ........ Aye well! You live & learn. :confused:

Re: Crematorium
 

I thought this would crop up on here. It's just another headline-grabbing lie from Peter Britcliffe. The cross will remain up unless requested to be taken down, not the other way around.

Government guidelines now state that public buildings should be non-secular so the only difference is that a cross is now permanently displayed on a stand rather than the wall. It makes it easier to remove when asked.

Re: Crematorium
 

Right clarify please. Is it the original cross that will remain up? or a small one will remain to be removed if asked.

Re: Crematorium
 

In which case the cross stays, or the council should buy a dictionary to prevent its councillors using words they don't know the meaning of.

Re: Crematorium
 

I think you meant mis-interpreted

Council accused of ?staggering U-turn? in Accrington crematorium cross saga (From Lancashire Telegraph)

Re: Crematorium
 

We haven't heard of any other councils making similar decisions. I would like to see evidence of this 'government guideline' Until then, I won't believe it.

Re: Crematorium
 

It cropped up on facebook as well, far more people are annoyed on yon, yet you have not responded on there nor clarified on here exactly whats happening/happened, so why should anyone take your word about someone lying?:rolleyes:

Re: Crematorium
 

As this is supposed to be a Christian country it should be the other way around - the cross should remain there unless a funeral organizer requests it's removal.

What next churches to remove the cross & paint out their windows?
I'm sure mosques would not be removing their symbology.

Another blot on the world of sensibility & score 1 for the PC nutters.

Re: Crematorium
 

It's got nothing to do with mosques or the Muslim faith, they don't use crems.

It's because the majority of people (40%) do not have a faith. Yes 40% is a majority in Hyndburn, thats why the benches were removed, because the majority of people ( 3or 4 ? ) were causing problems ;)

Re: Crematorium
 

Its sod all to do with "ANY" religious group imho, more to do with stupid Do-Gooding P.C. clowns.

Re: Crematorium
 

I am not overly religious, but I would say to those who find the cross offensive 'Take yourself off to somewhere that does not offend your very delicate sensibilities'.
I am offended by lots of things in life......but you have to build a bridge and get over it.
As Rainbow Six says, this is still a Christian country.....and yet people are surprised and offended if they see a cross in a Crematorium. Whatever next?
Leave the cross where it is. The person who is being cremated may not have strong religious views, but many of those who attend the ceremony may have religious ideal and may find that the cross is not only appropriate but a symbol of comfort.

Yes, Cashy...I think you have scored a direct hit with that last post of yours.

Re: Crematorium
 

Ta very much Margaret.:)

Re: Crematorium
 

PC horse manure, it benefits nobody. If anyone is offended, screw them. Bring back common sense. Oh ... I know it's a little early for this ... have a Merry Christmas.:D Which reminds me: Last year I was watching the Toronto Santa Clause Parade. In the crowd were lots of muslim families with their kids, all cheering and waving, most of them wearing Ho Ho Hats. They didn't seem one damned bit offended.

Re: Crematorium
 

Your statement is quite clear - "The cross will remain" So there can be no doubt that the original cross will be re-instated and not replaced by a removable altar top miniature version.
Please will you confirm to the electorate of Hyndburn that what you have said is in fact what you mean.

Re: Crematorium
 

May I suggest that you look at the threads on Hyndburn Chat on this subject. You will then see for yourself the outpourings of anger that you have generated.

Re: Crematorium
 

To be honest its Ken Moss thats grabbed the headline NOT P.B. probably a headline he neither envisaged or wanted, but thats life, theres clowns in every circus.:rolleyes:

Re: Crematorium
 

I saw about this in last nights Lancs Telegraph and then lo and behold it is in todays national press. I think Hyndburn council need an arithmetic lesson as 40% does not equal a majority and therefore is not democratic. I think the cross should stay put and if any family do not want it then it could be removed for their service. What these idiots will think of next beggars? Will all the grave stones on the cemetery that have a cross on them have to be removed too in case someone is offended passing them on the way to the crem?

Re: Crematorium
 

It isn't Muslims that require the cross to be removed, Muslims do not cremate their dead.
So 40 % of the local population do not profess any religion doesn't mean that they would find the cross offensive, I do not believe that humanists would object to this symbol either.
That must mean that it HAS to be the PC brigade making a problem where none exists....how very sad that they can find nothing better to do with their time and energy.

Re: Crematorium
 

And not ALL the clowns are in the circus either Cashy.

Re: Crematorium
 

Jesus,I see this topic has made a few folk pretty cross....



....jacket please :D

Re: Crematorium
 

Or put another way 'There's a prick in every bunch of roses'.

Re: Crematorium
 

Some have used this topic to get at the Muslims , but as has been pointed out on the thread Muslims are forbidden to have cremations , so they won't be at the crematorium .

The last two funerals I attended at the crematorium were of two friends who were Jehovah's Witnesses , and it did cross my mind at the time , knowing that they do not accept the sign of the cross , that it was a bit odd to have their funeral services conducted before a sign they had spent many hours preaching against .

Being a Christian I don't feel strongly about this issue of the cross . I have a crucifix in my home . It symbolises a lot to me .....everything really . I attend church on Sundays , and the cross is central to what occurs in the church .

But I can't see anything wrong with having a moveable cross at the crematorium , so that Christians can have the cross on display and secularists , humanists , atheists can have the cross not on display .

And as for this being a Christian country......well it isn't and never has been . A country cannot be Christian . Only a person can be Christian . A country might have 99% of its population committed Christians , but that doesn't make the country Christian . It can't do.....just as my dog , not being a person , can never be Christian .

Now if all of this makes me a PC nutter , well I have no problems with that . I am already a nutter for many , perhaps for most on this forum just for being a Christian ......believing all those "fairy tales" , "superstitions" , "brainwashed by all those paedophile men in dresses", etc , etc .:rolleyes:

Re: Crematorium
 

he cant he got banned from the group

but there were plenty of other places on facebook he could have answered , plead his case , corrected the public and also twitter

i have no doubt he will ride the storm and get his way and the Christians of hyndburn will have to make do with a trinket crucifix and hope the people at the back can see it

not even sure if complaining to our MP will do any good but it could be worth a try

they kind of have us over a barrel if you cant afford a burial you have to use this crematorium or the green wheelie bin i assume

it wasnt that long ago a woman got sacked from heathrow because she wore a crucifix so dont really expect any help or respect from the people in authority.

Re: Crematorium
 

I take your point and I don't think you are a nutter.
Whatever gets you through the night...is fine by me.
Faith is an admirable attribute.

When I said it was a Christian country what I really meant was a country that has a strong Christian past, christian values......and that the majority of the population follow the tenets of Christianity even if they deny the faith for themselves.
Many people are embarrassed to admit that they have a faith on which they can lean...some will only find a faith when they find difficulty.

I consider myself chastened and will make my post clearer next time......by saying what I mean.

Re: Crematorium
 

Why would anyone be offended by a cross?

If you are not a Christian, it will mean nothing to you so just treat it as a wall decoration.

Re: Crematorium
 

Pandering to the whims of the PC brigade just turns the whole thing into a farce.
Why go to all the bother of removing the cross? If a funeral party is so anti Christian then simply cover it over with a sheet.
I suspect that most non Christians attending a service at the crem wouldn't take a lot of notice of a cross on the wall and certainly wouldn't be offended by it's presence..

Re: Crematorium
 

Explain minorities?

Re: Crematorium
 

Non believers on the last census were the majority of people in Hyndburn & fastest growing group of people.

Re: Crematorium
 

I read the statement. No problem with catering for non believers & securlists. This thread mentions Muslim but I don't think there's ever been a Muslim ceremony in there.

Re: Crematorium
 

Even if non believers were more prevalent, this doesn't mean that they would take offence at a cross being visible in the crematorium.
Aren't we being just too sensitive?
Seeing offence where there is none.....and making offence where there should be none.
I can see there being more offence in a cross not being there for those who have a faith, than that of a cross being present where those gathered have no faith.....If you have no faith then the cross is of no more significance than a bit of wall art.

Re: Crematorium
 

It has been pointed out in earlier posts that Muslims do not use cremation...it is forbidden.

Re: Crematorium
 

Why me? You not got a dictionary in your house? Well if it makes you any happier .....


minority

(redirected from minorities)
Also found in: Legal, Encyclopedia, Wikipedia. mi·nor·i·ty

(mə-nôr′ĭ-tē, -nŏr′-, mī-)n. pl. mi·nor·i·ties 1. a. The smaller in number of two groups forming a whole.
b. A group or party having fewer than a controlling number of votes.

2. a. A racial, religious, political, national, or other group thought to be different from the larger group of which it is part.
b. A group having little power or representation relative to other groups within a society.
c. A member of one of these groups. See Usage Note at color.

3. Law The state or period of being younger than the age for legal adulthood: still in her minority.

Taken from the free online Dictionary, you might want to try it in future if you come across some big words again that you're not sure of. ;)

Re: Crematorium
 

I have just found out that on the 1st October 1880 the first electric lamp factory was opened by Thomas Edison.

It may also go down in history as the day when Ken and Graham reappeared on Accy Web to shed light upon us all . :D

Re: Crematorium
 

Erm....did you get the same researcher who forgot where you lived to get that little nugget?

Check Browser Settings

Re: Crematorium
 

no no he wrote it himself look :D

it wasnt researched he wote that he had spoken to us the people of XXXX lol

yeah its an old one but i like watching reruns of the two ronnies as well

Re: Crematorium
 

i wonder how his posts would have read if it had been a tory councilor and not his former council buddy and still fellow labour member that took away the crucifix


i have no doubt the replies would be of outrage and disgust at the disregard given to christians and how the tory lot are to blame for adding to the decline of society and its christian values

Re: Crematorium
 

I wonder how Graham Jones categorises non believers.
If you add up all the figures of the other categories it comes to just a little less than 50%.......but four and a half thousand people did not state their religion......so some of these could quite easily fall into any category.....including Christian.
Less than 50% is not a majority.
I know that in the past we have had some erroneous per centages bandied about
But if you are going to defend something by relying on figures (even if you quoted that the 'majority' rather than actually quoting figures) make sure that the actual government recognised statistics DO support what you are saying.....in this case they clearly do not.

Re: Crematorium
 

if percentages are worked out in this way in westminster it could explain why so many of them had trouble with their expenses

perhaps it was all a honest mistake lol

Re: Crematorium
 

It's what you were in Graham when the majority of Labour members and supporters voted differently from you in the election for Labour leader .

At the time you said : " “I am traditional Labour . "

So perhaps you can now explain "“I am traditional Labour" .

You were also in a minority at the General Election when 57.9% of those who voted didn't vote for you .

And in the election before that , 2010 , I wonder whether you were New Labour . I don't recall you criticising New Labour , but I'm always ready to be re-educated .

Re: Crematorium
 

Explain securlists. Look it up in Dave's dictionary.

Re: Crematorium
 

they are the people who do typing for you and answer the phone for you i think..

oh hang on thats something else isnt it :o

Re: Crematorium
 

It'd probably help if somebody could spell it correctly.

Re: Crematorium
 

So...breaking it down..our MP

a) Doesn't know what a minority is
b) Can't spell
c) Can't do maths (i.e 3/8 of non-christian Hyndburn is greater than 5/8 of christian Hyndburn)
d) Can't do geography (apparently he thinks he lives in XXXX)

Yet still claims to be smarter than us plebs when it comes to the fiscal issues of leaving Europe whilst claiming to speak on behalf of 95% (75,000 people) in Hyndburn


Back on thread I keep seeing a 40% figure for none believers using the crematorium...

Considering that the Muslim community do not use this crematorium, a simple calculation using the census figures would show that 73% of Hyndburn crematorium users are Christian, leaving a mere 27% of people who may possibly be offended (and thats not accounting for the variation that could be caused by the 4000+ people who thought that their personal belief system had sod all to do with census takers)

And by the way I'm a none believer..and just like I did with mine, I know lots of people who tell their kids that mum/dad/gran is in heaven and happy...a cross is kinda significant to the innocent and undoctrinated kids who go to funerals.

Ken Moss tried to screw with the memorial in Huncoat and got his backside kicked, he's had it kicked on his own now defunct facebook group, he's had it kicked here with the benches and now he's had it kicked in the national media....but according to him it's all Britcliffes fault *sigh*

Re: Crematorium
 

jehovas dont seem to get offended when they get doors slammed in their faces i highly doubt they complained about a crucifix

could see an issuer if vampires went there but apart from that i think most people aint fussed about the cucifix been there

name splattered all over social media and the press... Mission accomplished id say...;)

funny thing is though this past week HBC asked people to decide on how the council tax should be raised and the options were the working people covered the raise or the people on benefits got told to pay more

naturally social media blew up with comments such as i work all week why should i cover the scums council tax..Well just remember not everyone in receipt of council tax benefit is a Jeremy Kyle dosser infact your grandma or your elderly mother may be getting a discount or help with council tax

anyway i didnt see a second poll from HBC asking if the crucifix should be taken down or not it was just decided and done

Re: Crematorium
 

It is always good if you find someone else to blame!

Re: Crematorium
 

I am 110% behind you on that one!

Re: Crematorium
 

"2 Days now, Ken Moss made a statement accusing a person of lying, and has not been back to clarify as asked!! That to me says it all about the guy, disappoints me as i originally thought different.:rolleyes:

Re: Crematorium
 

So what happened to Batman & Robin? The caped crusaders sallied forth & then ........ batmobile broken down in a doggers layby somewhere? :confused:

Re: Crematorium
 

Now,Now dave i never suspected collusion.:D

Re: Crematorium
 

Perish the thought my dear Cashers! I'd not expect that from you, the fine upstanding gentleman that you are. ;)

Re: Crematorium
 

They've done what they usually do when faced with facts as opposed to innuendo, poor local knowledge and crap research..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZAwSr7d6u4

Re: Crematorium
 

Perhaps it was a cunning plan by Mr Moss to generate publicity for the town.
If so he has succeeded, local press, national daily papers and now national Sunday papers. Almost in Baldric's class.:rolleyes:

Re: Crematorium
 

but not quite as cunning as a fox that studied cunningness at cunning university ? :D

Re: Crematorium
 

Q. How can you tell when a politician's lying?

A. His mouth's open.

Re: Crematorium
 

how can you tell when one is having fun

the pigs mouth is open

Re: Crematorium
 

As Ken seems to be quite shy I'll post the answer for you :)

Hyndburn council dismisses UKIP MEP's criticism over crematorium crucifix - Accrington Observer

Re: Crematorium
 

Re: Crematorium
 

I wonder just how many times there has been an objection to the cross.
How many times have the staff been asked to cover it up.....my guess would be less than a handful.
I think the article in the Observer is as Retlaw says ' bull shine'.
I consider what our MEP said, to right on the money.

Re: Crematorium
 

In the four years I was in charge there the cross was never requested to be covered up. It was mentioned in the office over ten years ago that they were considering a curtain that could be drawn over the cross but never came to be, partly due to no real desire for it to be covered.

Re: Crematorium
 

Now, now my children, calm down, isn't it obvious? They took the cross down whilst they were doing a refurb, realised they had run out of funds to put it back up, so needed someone/something to blame, what better than some vague directive from P.C./EU brigade.

They lie, I know they lie, you know they lie, they no doubt laugh and titter at ALL the other lies they have got away with.

This whole thread is bull!

Time we got some honest politicians representing us.

This thread has shown more honest folk here in the Borough than those representing us.

Now I will re-enter my darkened room and allow the world to pass me by for another six months, it's far better than pretending our world is full of people that only have my best interests at heart until they get my vote.

Re: Crematorium
 

Paul Nuttall has weighed into the Accy Crem Cross controversy......

Paul who?

You remember that bald headed UKIP scouser who occasionally got a word in edgeways when his boss Nigel Farage paused for breath?

The one who said UKIP were on the march before the election? Before the debate moved on and the Tories promised a referendum and Labour elected a leader who wants to leave the EU for reasons diametrically opposite anything UKIP believe in?

Yes him. A career politician desperate for a cause.

How many cremations has he been to at Accy Crem?

Precisely!

Re: Crematorium
 

all i know is that if i changed my story this many times under questioning from my mum id of got my arse handed to me

Re: Crematorium
 

you may recognize him now :D

Re: Crematorium
 

Yeh may not have much time for UKIP, Hyndburner, But its LABOUR thats caused all this bother, yeh may not like it but its fact,

Re: Crematorium
 

All Mp'S & MEP's are career politicians, they don't do it for free !!

Re: Crematorium
 

Yes, and there is no such thing as bad publicity...they have to keep themselves in the public eye so that we think they are doing SOMETHING.

Re: Crematorium
 

I note that Mr Moss is keeping his head well below the parapet again. I wonder how long he will refrain from posting/commenting this time. I hope he realises that everyone can see when he has visited the site.

Re: Crematorium
 

Yep not much of a man, accuses someone then dont come back when asked to clarify.:rolleyes:

Re: Crematorium
 

He's had it kicked again now by Miles Parkinson who has ordered the cross to be restored to its original position.

From the Telegraph: U-TURN: Accrington Crematorium?s controversial six-foot cross restored on chapel wall (From Lancashire Telegraph)

Cllr Moss was not immediately available for comment yesterday.

Re: Crematorium
 

Hardly a shock to me he aint available for comment.:rolleyes: Good on Miles Parkinson.

Re: Crematorium
 

I am very pleased that it is being restored to its proper place.
Well Done Miles Parkinson

Re: Crematorium
 

Well done Miles Parkinson, a small step in restoring my confidence in the Council - perhaps a post less demanding can be found for Mr Moss

Re: Crematorium
 

Yeh back oer Preston.:rolleyes:

Re: Crematorium
 

I understand that the Cross has been restored to it's rightful place in the Crematorium, although the person who saw it thought that it was smaller than the original one. If that is so perhaps the original one was taken away as scrap by someone who wanted some nice pieces of wood, or who has a wood burner.
Mr Moss hasn't left yet Cashy, although he no longer frequents Accyweb, and now seems to have also deserted Hyndburn Chat he is now writing for the Observer - he produced quite a lengthy letter to the Editor last week - I am still trying to understand what he is saying. One point he does make is that people should shop locally and he shops in Accrington every week - wonder why he doesn't shop in Rishton?

Re: Crematorium
 

I haven't posted up until now because I can't quite believe the crazy directions this thread has gone in. The late Jaysay and myself may not have always seen eye to eye but I fancy he would have put a lot of you straight by now.

For the record Barrie, it is exactly the same cross. I am not on Hyndburn Chat because I gave Gary Martin some straight answers which he didn't like so I got banned. I understand from other users that some fantastic claims are being made over there regarding the cross (I have burned it, apparently) so I take the whole thing with a pinch of salt.

I'm sorry that my letter in the Observer was so confusing for you. It was written in plain English and the editor obviously felt it was print worthy. Evidently less so for you?

Finally, I shop in Rishton several times a week. I didn't realise that I was under surveillance but I suggest you tighten up security if I am able to spend money in the village so freely without you knowing about it.

Re: Crematorium
 

Well well, silly me, thought yeh had returned to finally hold yer hand up!!! but no yeh returned to use me owd mate, who cant answer fer himself, I shouldn't really be shocked, but i am. by the way i now take your claims wi a pinch of salt Mr Moss, cos i have heard none of those allegations yer making of Hyndburn Chat.:rolleyes:

Re: Crematorium
 

Then ask Gary why I can't find Hyndburn Chat on any searches. He must really have dug deep because even my partner has been kicked off and blocked as she can't find it either.

I have no problem that Miles stepped in and made the decision to keep it. Despite all the imagined reasons why this happened, the fact still stands that it is a government guideline for all public crematoria which I was adhering to. A guideline, not a rule, and I got it wrong in this case. I have no qualms about saying that and never have had but that bit has strangely not been reported in the press.

The problem is that the truth isn't as juicy as a lie.

Re: Crematorium
 

What a shame, yes, what a shame that you had to use a deceased member in an attempt to strengthen your belated reply.



What a shame, yes what a shame that you took a guideline and unthinkingly applied it as if it had been written in stone without first giving it a great deal of thought.

Guidelines are just that guidelines something a thinking representative of our borough would have in this instance, rejected as a no brainer.

What a shame, yes what a shame that you can't find Hyndburn chat, because I for one don't care about what you, or it's members may have said about this particular issue on there it's what's been said on here that we pay attention to. This is AccyWeb you have enough of a downer about this site to fill a server, no need for us to find that you can't get on with folk elsewhere and have our servers filled with that none news as well.

I also have no problem with Miles stepping in just a shame that steps had been taken resulting in the need for him to step in.

The truth isn't as juicy as a lie? Of course it is!

You took the truth be it in the form of a guideline and applied it where it upset members of your community, no-one from any race or creed had shown any animosity to the cross being there but there sure as hell were plenty that took um-bridge because you had it removed.

Perhaps when next you do something on my or anyone else's behalf you will think back to this oops of yours and apply just a little common sense?

Let me re-assure you though, no matter how many times you come on site to tell us off (what a joy it would be if one day you came on and actually had something positive to say about the site) no matter how wrong you are, no matter how many of us you may attempt to insult, unlike Hyndburn chat, you won't find yourself banned just because the mods or members don't like what you say.

If I don't hear from you again until local election time I hope you and yours have a wonderful Christmas and a thoughtful new year.

Re: Crematorium
 

Downer on this site? Good grief, there are only half a dozen of you posting regularly and you all seem to despise everything about the planet!

Whatever mistakes I make at least I won't be as miserable as you lot.

Find something positive, somewhere, anywhere, and post about that for a change.

Re: Crematorium
 

Ken if it is so bad, then you have the option not to come on here.....it is your choice.

It was a cheap shot to use the presumed opinion of a deceased member to make your point.
You cannot possibly know what that members approach would have been had he still been with us.
However, it is good that you can now see that slavishly following guidelines(whether they are government supported or not) makes little sense...especially as you know the town so well.
Surely the outrage was not a surprise to you.

Re: Crematorium
 

Well, there you go again, perhaps you didn't see our guideline about thinking before you post?

Or maybe you chose to ignore it?

1/ you can't count there are more than 6 of us posting regularly.

2/ We don't all despise everything I might despise the majority of things but I'm only one member.

3/ Re-read your post if we are miserable it fits right in, welcome.

4/ Thank you for admitting you make mistakes, that will also help you to make friends on here.

5/ Take a look around, there are a few 'happier' threads, however if all our politicians can feed us is doom and gloom such as for instance removing a cross because of a guideline, then why yes we plebs will tend to become just a tad jaded and disappointed with the world.

6/ If you want positive answers to your posts come on with a positive attitude. Treat us as if we have a brain cell even if we only get to use it between us on time share!

I repeat my seasonal greeting to you and yours, when you start thinking instead of just posting perhaps you will calm down and realise that there are worse places to be than on AccyWeb?

Re: Crematorium
 

Barrie's comment popped up in my email inbox, it was filled with inaccuracies and I couldn't let it ride.

As I have said countless times before, the Crem was being redecorated and it was an appropriate time. We do get asked on an increasingly regular (although not exceptionally frequent) basis to cover the cross by groups such as humanists for their ceremonies. The cross is over seven feet tall, solid wood and very heavy so it was felt that a large portable one on the altar would do the same job but be easier. Blackpool remains the only authority in Lancashire not to have done this.

Britcliffe decided that telling the Daily Mail would be better than an email to me or anyone else in the Council. What should have been a reasonable discussion escalated into an attack on Muslims, somewhat inevitably and instantaneously.

I prefer tea and biscuits to having a full blown press argument because the full facts are never reported. Instead of a sensible discussion, we got the Britcliffe media explosion which I hated every second of and everyone came out of feeling antipathy towards everyone else.

In other words, nobody won and everyone looks bad to someone. The church managed to generate more bad feeling towards it by going public with Peter than it realises.

Re: Crematorium
 

Oh thats another brahmer..............blame the church as well.:rolleyes:

Re: Crematorium
 

If they had such an issue with it why didn't they ask to speak to me before going to the press?

It's not an unreasonable question.

Re: Crematorium
 

Brahmer? Not heard that before sorry.

And who is blaming the church? I just think they would have come in for less stick if they'd actually tried to speak to me before going to the Daily Mail with Peter.

Believe me, they did get stick.

Re: Crematorium
 

I used to but then you got elected, perhaps over time we have both changed.

I have become more cynical of your posts and you have given me many reasons to be cynical about your posts.

On the positive side however...

erm,

erm'

Oh dear, think Less, think of something positive...

Oh Yeah, we got the cross back, now I can start a real downer of a thread about how religion and it's symbolism rears it's ugly head far too often on site.

:alright:

Re: Crematorium
 

Possibly to highlight the stupidity of the decision? thats not an unreasonable supposition.;)

Re: Crematorium
 

Or the least productive way of winning an argument. If you genuinely believe that making a public song and dance about something is better than talking things over in private then I pity you.

Your life must have been Hell if every objection to stupidity involved running to the press.

Re: Crematorium
 

It's possible that running to the press was key in reinstating the cross. Councillors don't mind favourable things being written about them in the press but seem to get upset when they are criticised.

Re: Crematorium
 

Still trying very hard to fit in aren't you?

Negative post after negative post, boy, you're a natural, would you like a job as a moderator?

Far better than discussing in private or, washing linen (stained or otherwise) in public:-

Just the smallest, the most minuscule, amount of common sense could have prevented the need for this thread in the first place.

P.S. I do know your ignoring me it doesn't matter, your digging the hole, I'm just waiting around the edge peeing on the sides making it slippery in case you try to get out.

Re: Crematorium
 

Welcome back Mr Moss.
Why you would bring the memory of Jaysay into this thread is far beyond me.
I, and a number of others on HC and on here, will be pleased that the original Cross has been restored and common sense prevails. It is very good of you to admit that you were wrong, a great pity that it has taken a considerable period of time - over two months in fact. A forced apology perhaps?
With regard to Hyndburn Chat, my understanding is that despite warnings you were banned for breaking the few rules that there are on that site - of course there are always people who don't think that rules apply to them.
Your letter published in the Observer makes a number of interesting points but unfortunately does not give any pertinent details.
My confusion mainly arises concerning your paragraphs 8 through 10.
“The Market Hall is fantastic” – a number of long standing stalls have closed in recent times, recent photographs show an impressive interior but very few customers and if you look when on your frequent shopping excursions in there you will see that only a few stalls have queues at them. The 2 cafes are quite busy as is the central seating area, perhaps you should take note of the criticisms levelled here, HC and the Observer letters from time to time.
“The Town Centre” – I am very confused as to what you class as a “curio shop”. There is a thread on HC at the moment asking what shops the members would like to see – but of course, you are unable to access HC. Comments, by many people, point out the preponderance of Charity Shops, Pound Stores, Betting Shops and Amusement Arcades, Burger/Kebab Shops and empty shops.
“Dazzling array of very good cafes and pubs” – how many pubs are there in the Town Centre Mr Moss? There are good cafes, but not that many very good cafes, unless we have different standards
You have previously stated that you shop in Accrington a number of times every week, now we understand that you also shop in Rishton several times a week. Perhaps you class buying a newspaper as shopping which I suppose it is technically.

Finally, do I understand from your last sentence in Post 79 that you are accusing me of lying?

Re: Crematorium
 

Maybe those concerned felt that their requests would have fallen on deaf ears.
After all, politicians even local ones are not noted for listening to those who put them where they are....that is, serving their constituents.
Resorting to Press involvement is sure to stir things up......and at the end of the day that is what produced results.

I had the need to attend a humanist funeral at Burnley Crematorium recently......many of those attending had strong Christian beliefs(a large proportion were Catholic)........how do I know this for sure? It was for a family member.
The deceased was humanist, but his family were not.....the Christian symbolism was not offensive......and I believe that at a funeral the last thing on the minds of the bereaved is to look at the surroundings looking for things at which offence can be taken.

It seems to me that in this country we are tolerant of other religions, but that we do not expect others to be tolerant of Christians.

Finally, your admission that you misread the feelings of the local population took too long in coming and it seemed begrudged and insincere.......when you have got something wrong the admission needs to be prompt and the apologies sincere.

Re: Crematorium
 

My point is that it wasn't the best way of having a discussion. Rather than a reasoned debate in private first (it would have ended up in the papers eventually anyway), it was used for maximum political capital instead.

Instead of getting a balanced news report in the local press, it ended up starting a war in the Daily Mail. The Council officers were bombarded with calls from people who said we should be clamping down on Muslim immigration (this had nothing to do with Muslims, who don't use the Crem anyway) to death threats from people who claimed to be regular church goers.

I'm sure some wil find that amusing, but the number of emails also heavily criticising the church was surprising. They wouldn't have had that if they'd not fallen into bed with Peter. I just think that is a shame.

You then get Britcliffe crowing in the papers that HBC have acceded to his 'demands' which to be honest just damages us all (and again the emails bore this out).

The saddest thing of all is that Cllr Judith Addison, also a lay preacher, wrote a magnificent Facebook post looking at things from both sides of the fence.

She was completely ignored by the press.

Re: Crematorium
 

The answer to pretty much all your questions is, 'Open your eyes'.

Which HC rule did I break exactly? Thou shalt not disagree with Gary Martin?

Re: Crematorium
 

Well it does seem like that talking to people like you,:rolleyes: my life overall has been quite good, but then i have never tried to use dead mates, to justify my balls ups, you really are a disgrace of a council man in my eyes.

Re: Crematorium
 

I am still waiting to have you state whether or not you accused me of being a liar? - Post 79
I am still trying to determine where these "interesting little curio shops" are
- the definition of curio being "A rare, unusual or intriguing object".

Re: Crematorium
 

I think Ken was very diplomatic explaining what actually went on. He could have gone into great depth about the shenanigans that went on but appears to have quite rightly instead played it all down a little. I was quite disappointed when I learnt from a few sources what had gone on. Some of those should have know better how to deal with it and others were involved for either personal or totally wrong reasons.

Ken has taken the flak for implementing government guidelines. I posted some comments in the Facebook thread myself which I promptly removed when I found out what was going on so I would not be used for the benefit of others

Re: Crematorium
 

Whatevers gone on behind the scenes is irrelevant, the original decision was completely thoughtless and stupid FACT.:rolleyes: