Needless Cruelty

[Tealeaf]

I'm going to write to the Countryside Alliance informing them of the formation of the Muslim & Jewish Fox Hunt (Accrington Branch). Besides serving to understand inter-community relations and assist in some way in the Middle East Peace Process, the purpose of the Hunt will be to offer Pest Control Services to all those farmers and small holders surrounding Hyndburn. Vermin (i.e.Foxes) will be legitimatly despatched with, in a spirit of harmony, reconciliation and goodwill untroubled by the antics of the politically correct Constabulary or the animal rights mob.

The first meeting will be on Boxing Day; meet 9am sharp outside the Stag (how apt) where Staggeringman will be serving up the hot toddys. Less will be coming on his donkey and blowing the horn, and everyone else is cordially invited.

[Less]

Originally Posted by Tealeaf

Less will be coming on his donkey and blowing the horn, and everyone else is cordially invited.

How proud you make me feel that a man of my age should have a horn worth producing in public, however I will not need the equine beast as I am capable of making a complete Ass of myself without it's help.

[KiTChener]

One law for them, one law for us.....Isn't that what religion's all about??Whether we're foxhunters, politicians or Muslims, we're never going to agree!!

I, personally, love a nice piece of fillet; Ialso love a veggie stirfry; I was brought up as as Catholic, but denounced that religion in my 'teens. I have many Jewish/Muslim friends.

What does that make me??

I support Accrington Stanley......but I used to support Man City....What does that make me?? ( editor's comment.....'SAD!!')

The point I'm trying to make, is, we're all different, but we should try & live together.
I agree with a previous contributor who used the phrase 'when in Rome'. If we choose to live in a different country, we should accept the customs of that country. But, when you think about it, is that how the British Empire was built??

What a conundrum!!!!

[WillowTheWhisp]

Originally Posted by KiTChener

The point I'm trying to make, is, we're all different, but we should try & live together.

That's a very valid point BUT if we were to do something in a muslim country whihc the indginous population found abhorrent I have no doubt there'd be a stop put to it pretty sharpish. So, if it is halal or whatever to eat Christian meat so long as it isn't pork then why the need for the barbaric method of slaughter in this Christian country?

[Less]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

That's a very valid point BUT if we were to do something in a muslim country whihc the indginous population found abhorrent I have no doubt there'd be a stop put to it pretty sharpish. So, if it is halal or whatever to eat Christian meat so long as it isn't pork then why the need for the barbaric method of slaughter in this Christian country?

I do think your going a little extreme to suggest that anybody should eat Christian meat no matter how bad are the circumstances!

[WillowTheWhisp]

You are perfectly right Less. Maybe we should try a bit of vampire. There should be plenty of iron in that

[entwisi]

Mmm, I've sat and watched this one for a while before adding my comments. but here goes

Personally I am happy for the Muslim community to eat whatever they like, killed in as humane way as they will accept. If they could eat 'non muslim' meat with a prayer then in this and other christian countries they should do this. Does anyone have any idea what happens in other christian countries worldwide? Are they allowed to perfom ritual slaughter in America/Germany/Spain etc.

However on the other side, animals are breed to be killed. They would not have a life except to be fattened up for us to eat. I too would be of the minority that would be prepared to kill my own if that is what was needed. I am not some blood thirsty soul but I feel I do have a reasonable grasp of the order of things in nature. One day your the predator, the next your the victim. We as humans have very few predators hence the population problems, that is just the natural order of things.

So whilst he find it unacceptable for the scenario that was presented it is up to us to put pressue on the powers that be to do something about it.(i.e. we become the predator of this method of killing). Does our estimeed MP read this site? I think I'll drop him an email to see what his comments are and also to point him at a massive resource of public opinion in his constituency.

I'll be careful not to get any splinters in my bum now as I get off the fence

[Darby]

Originally Posted by jelly baby

Hi Darby, I've been looking at some literature re Halal V Haram,

'....another opinion holds that since the Qur'an is clear in stating that the food of Christians and Jews is lawful, Muslims who live in predominantly Christian countries may eat commercial meat (except pork) pronouncing Gods name at the time of eating',
so according to this there really is no need for the bleeding of animals.

Hiya J-Baby. Thanks for your considered response.

I think that most would agree that ritual killing of animals using Halal methods is incompatible with our way of life and our society. This can also be said of Kosher products.

When in Rome........exactly!! ...........

I live in Germany and Halal and Kosher ritual killing of animals is not prohibited, but must be carried out under licence (just another way of collecting tax). However, a lot of muslims carry out Halal killing without a licence....so much for the law!!

I also live within the German society and have adopted their ways, their foods, their laws, their traditions. But I'm still English and I'm known for a good sense of humour, respectability, honesty, and a willingness to help others. It's fair to ask all others to play the same game but retain their own national identity without coming into conflict with national society standards and expectations.

Any immigrant should not argue that their way is the only way that they can retain their national identity and in cases of real conflict...they should decide if their adopted country should take precedence or their own native one.
The choice is freely theirs...but they have a duty to make a decision based on those principles and either stay by adopting those principles or return to where they feel their identity is accepted as the "norm" and not inflict their way upon the indiginous population.

I think this is a reasonable and fair way to integrate into a sensible and acceptable society. And all immigrants who take this route should be encouraged and supported, and above all accepted into their "new" society by one and all.

[JohnW]

Looking at this from the other side of the fence, as an immigrant in another country I still agree with the concensus of opinion. 'When in Rome' is a very good maxim. As most of you will know, the English language in use over here isn't really the English language. Many spellings are different. When I communicate with my American friends and colleagues, I spell words the American way, but I spell them the 'proper' way when writing to English friends. I still retain my British accent and will always do so. Actually, that works very well for me here. Americans really love our accent. Over here I hold my fork in my right hand and use it like a shovel, but when in England I use my knife and fork as we were taught. These are only little things I know, but it's the little things that help you to integrate and it is important to do so. This is their country, they have a right to expect me to behave in a way which is acceptable to them. I am their guest. Immigrants coming into England should have it made clear that those are the rules. If you don't like 'em, turn around and go back to wherever you came from. If you come in and don't abide by the rules, we will send you back to wherever you came from.

[WillowTheWhisp]

It's good to hear the other side of things from both of you. We wee talking about this the other day and said that if we moved to live in Spain, as my friend's son has done, we would expect to learn the language and to learn how to live a Spanish lifestyle so as to integrate with the people and not stick out like a sore thumb. Of course we'd always be English and I suppose Spain with its holiday connections really isn't a good example because you could get away with speaking English and living there but the point is that we wouldn't actually want to. We'd consider it ignorant.

Even when the French market came people had a go at speaking French when they were buying things and saying "Merci" instead of "Ta"

[Margaret Pilkington]

I could almost give up eating meat......except sometimes I get the urge for a bacon buttie.

[Bazf]

Whats the point of getting to the top of the food chain and then becoming vegitarian?

[yerself]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

except sometimes I get the urge for a bacon buttie.

I read somewhere that the smell of cooking bacon is one of the main reasons vegetarians give for having reverted to meat eating.

[Darby]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

It's good to hear the other side of things from both of you. We wee talking about this the other day and said that if we moved to live in Spain, as my friend's son has done, we would expect to learn the language and to learn how to live a Spanish lifestyle so as to integrate with the people and not stick out like a sore thumb. Of course we'd always be English and I suppose Spain with its holiday connections really isn't a good example because you could get away with speaking English and living there but the point is that we wouldn't actually want to. We'd consider it ignorant.

Even when the French market came people had a go at speaking French when they were buying things and saying "Merci" instead of "Ta"

That's exactly the point Willow....when in Rome.

I lived in Gibraltar for 3 years...in the middle of the town, amongst the Spaniards. I use to watch all the Spanish TV, football and even Bullfighting!! Got to know quite a bit about it. I learnt Spanish to an acceptable level and mixed with them in everyday life. Great people, but very different.

Since then I've spent a lot of time in Spain. Working and holidays. I have good friends in Madrid and Sevilla, and have visited every Spanish region and spent much time in the Extremadura and Castille Viejo. I love the place to bits and like and admire the Spanish people.

But in their country we should make the effort. I can assure you that they really appreciate any attempt to speak their language and accept their customs.

Last month I spent a few days in Santander (business), and my Spanish has almost disapeared (30 years since I last lived there), but comes back when I'm forced to use it. Anyway, I was trying to tell this receptionist that I wanted to leave my case and pick it up at 5:30. She said that I should try and tell her in Spanish...which I eventually did. She called the manager and said that in future if I came to stay, I could order everything in my excellent Spanish and there was no need for the Hotel staff to speak to me in any other language. I felt a bit embarrased, but when I came home I checked my few sentences against my books...and it was perfect...just off the cuff...but it came back easily.

The joy and surprise in the recepionists eyes was well worth the effort, and she will now believe that all Englishman can speak Spanish....(as I said before I'm really a missionary)

It just goes to show that a little effort on our behalf, reaps rewards and gives a cheer to any local.

[vorlon24]

It's not just in Spain where that works - I surprised the hell out of the staff at the hotel I was staying at in Crete this year!!!

They asked me where I learned to speak it so well. The thing is, I only learned a little when I was staying in Corfu a few years ago from the co-owner of the hotel where I was staying!

Must have been a good teacher