The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword
 

But is it mightier than the teachers cane?

I ask this question because an advert from Which magazine showed a fountain pen and a bottle of ink.

At first I just thought 'that's an old fashioned image', then I started thinking about my school days.

The first pen that I used was basically a wooden stick with a scratchy nib in it that had to be dipped into an inkwell filled with special school quality goo, it can't really be described as ink.

Imagine giving those sharp instruments to a 7 year old these days (they really could take someones eye out).

When I was about 8 I got a fountain pen for Christmas, it had a blunt nib that allowed your writing to flow rather than just scrawling across the page and you filled it by squeezing a rubber tube held inside the main barrel.

After the holidays I proudly took it to school with me I wasn't the only one several others had had a similar gift.

The English teacher declared that anyone using such a device would have to use ink from the wells she didn't want different shades of blue in her classroom. These things were built for proper ink not school glue the first fill up clogged the rubber tube and blocked the nib rendering my new device useless.

A year or so later I got a cartridge pen as a gift, these had a little plastic tube that you replaced whenever you ran out of ink. We still had the same teacher, she now announced that such pens would not be tolerated in her class again she claimed the ink we use should be school ink.

back to using the scratchy stick.

On reaching the age of 11 a move up to secondary school the beginnings of a new adventure and my parents had bought me a high quality new fangled ball point pen to carry around in my pencil case.

A new English teacher and he on seeing me writing with this item literally jumped from the front of the class, grabbed it from my hand and smashed it against the wall whilst stating that 'anyone he caught trying to use these modern pieces of rubbish would in future get six of the best', (for those of you too young to know, this meant three lashes of the cane on each hand).

The years went by, I was able to say goodbye to this Neanderthal as I went up to the senior years.

However although we were now thought responsible enough to be allowed a choice of writing implement, I fell foul of the Geography teacher.
Obviously we would have to draw maps and diagrams of the workings of an artesian well and so on, these would have to be handed in having been brought to life using crayons.

What had I got that Christmas? Well, I had been bought a set of felt tipped pens, so I set about my homework with gusto far neater and brighter charts of the height of mountains and the eruptions of volcano's.

What did I get from the Geography teacher? a months detention and the threat of the cane if I dared use them again.

I wonder when the kids of a few years ago first got access to a family computer and therefore producing printed diagrams and homework, did they also find their teachers reluctant to take on the practical use of their new fangled devices?

I suppose when calculators first came out the kids that took them to school got into bother as well?

Have teachers always been against progress? If so, how did classes ever evolve from a slate and chalk board for practising their hand writing?

Re: The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword
 

My proudest memory of my infants school was being made "Ink monitor" for the week.
I had to mix the powder and water to make the ink and then pour some into each desk's inkwell.

Re: The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword
 

And here's me thinking you owd codgery types used Styli & wax tablets. :hidewall: :D

Re: The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword
 

Only in the first year Dave, once we we proved we could be trusted we got the stick with a pointy nib.

Re: The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword
 

One of the best teaching aids in history was of course the cane what better way to punish a child for bad handwriting was there than to give him a few strokes of it across the hand and then expect him to hold his pen and actually write ANYTHING?
🤗

Re: The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword
 

Re: The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword
 

All very well, IF you've done something wrong, not alright though if the teacher is a sadistic bully and your parents trusting him because he was classed as one of their 'betters'.

Do you remember the board duster?

A 4 inch long lump of heavy wood with some padding.

All teachers seemed to think it reasonable to throw it across the room at some offending child.

One of my teachers threw one, missed the lad, the lad picked it up and threw it straight back, got the teacher right between the eyes, ambulance called, he was off for nearly 3 months recovering, I bet it's the last time he threw it at the schools star fast bowler!

Re: The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword
 

I was only ever given the cane once...and it was my choice.
It was either the cane or two dishonour points and that week I had earned ten honour points( which meant my name would appear on the honours board). Two dishonour points would dash my chances to be on the honours board. So I took six of the best.
The teacher who meted out this punishment said I took the cane better than many boys.
Oh, and my punishment was for answering back.

Milton Suthers our Maths teacher was a board duster whizzer. He rarely hit anyone, but I feel sure this was by design as he was an ace cricketer who bowled for the Ribblesdale Cricket team.....and I'm sure he could have taken the head off Roy Wallace( the class bad boy) if he had wanted.

Re: The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword
 

And we could write with any kind of pen we wanted.
I still use dip pens for my calligraphy.

Re: The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword
 

One of my brothers suffers the same hobby and does it beautifully, but I defy either he or you to do the same with the old school pens!

Plus to get the ink to stick to a new nib we would have to lick it first, hows that for hygiene?
:D

Re: The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword
 

Honour Points? Honour points? we wore the scars of our honour points across our hands, that was the only system in place.

First week at the secondary school we met the music teacher for the first time, now she was one sick bitch, called all the boys to the front of the class and gave us all the cane on each hand, telling us she doesn't cane the girls but if any of the girls misbehave she will pick 3 boys to cane instead.
She and the Gym teacher were caught in a rather uncompromising position and dismissed a couple of years later, after all that is not what one normally does with a plimsoll after sharing the girls shower!

Re: The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword
 

Less, I still have an old school dip pen and I can use it for calligraphy, but as I have got older my hands have become a bit shaky at times. This pen nib is very fine and my shakes show...So I prefer the broader nibs as they are kinder to me.

Re: The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword
 

It was far harder to get merit points than to get demerit points.
Less, you have left me wondering which school you attended. The teachers do seem to be barbaric.

Re: The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword
 

Margaret, I can only work with what I experienced, my first two years of schooling were an absolute dream, wonderful and kind teachers at St James in Clitheroe then we moved, industrial town, industrial attitudes at the larger schools, learning suddenly stopped being a pleasure and remained that way until I left school and started learning at night school and colleges.
They made up for all the wasted years of so called primary and secondary teachers.

Re: The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword
 

How very sad Less. I enjoyed most of my school life(well except for sport and netball).
I had some teachers who took a real interest in my progress. One of these was Miss Croston...she taught Art and English and it was her first placement after graduating(I think).
I am pleased that your bad experiences were (to some degree) erased by your learning experience in higher education.
Higher education is a lot different to attending school though.
You are legally bound to go to school, but higher education is a choice. Learners who choose to educate themselves do far better than those who are forced into education.
I spent a lot of time in trying to make up for the window gazing I did when I should have been paying attention.

Re: The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword
 

Ah, netball, one of my fondest school time memories, like yourself sport didn't interest me except swimming, so I'd do anything to get out of football, sorry sir forgot my kit, sorry sir can't play today my sister is on her period, any excuse not to play.

Now the gym teacher and music teacher mentioned earlier hatched a plan, I and another lad turned up yet again without football kit, he marched us over to the netball court where the music teacher (part time gym mistress) was teaching the girls.
We two were told if you won't play football you'll do netball with the girls, they thought this would be humiliating to us, oh how wrong they were, two lads going through puberty being attacked by girls! We were in heaven, the following week the teachers abandoned that idea when nine more lads had erm' forgotten their football gear after we had told them the joy we had been put through.
:alright:

Re: The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword
 

I was once taken to task by our gym mistress(who just happened to be the wife of Jim Bowen) for not knowing which bit of the court I should have been in. I threw the ball at her stormed off the court and sulkily told her that I preferred Maths with Mr Suthers to games with her. The truth was that I was scared witless of Milton Suthers and I was to maths what Arthur Scargill is to,opera singing.
Anyway she marched me to his classroom and told him that from now on when the rest of my year were doing games. I would present myself to the Maths class.
I think that is called shooting yourself in the foot.

Re: The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword
 

Be careful what you wish for Margaret. Milton Suthers was born and brought up in Hapton like me. (Well I was born at Roughlee actually) I certainly remember the pens dipped in ink wells. They were the only pens we used at Peel Park and at the High School only fountain pens were allowed. I had a lovely maroon Parker one. I had a few good hidings at Peel Park from Mr Gleaves who used his flat hand but if a boy was smacked he used his PE pump. I also got slapped on my legs with two rulers by the head master Mr Hinchcliffe. That was not as bad as getting a slap on my leg with a wet hand from my mum. That really smarted. None of it did me any harm though. I have seen a blackboard cleaner thrown a few times .

Re: The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword
 

I learned to write using chalk on a slate

Re: The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword
 

Milton Suthers scared me witless for all the time I was at secondary school..He looked like the old bearded king on the pennies and had a fearsome glower.
His classes were in the main very well behaved as he would rule with black looks and a badly aimed board duster(I believe it was badly aimed on purpose because the power with which it was thrown could have taken your head off).

I remember Mr Gleave and his 'slipper'....Mr Hinchcliffe too....the more sedate Miss Butterworth(who despite looking meek and mild had good control over her classes).
In fact on the whole my schooldays were something to look back on with pleasure.

Children back then seemed to be more compliant, less aggressive, maybe even less assured.
Today's children are a different breed altogether.
Discipline in schools back then was more defined, easier to manage and parents seemed to accept that if their little darling(were there any little darlings back the?) was chastised, it was for a valid reason.

Re: The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword
 

Physical punishment doesn't really work - it may deter someone who is not generally a trouble maker and makes one mistake and a few wacks put them right - but for many more it didn't make one iota of a difference if they were physically punished. In fact many trouble makers I witnessed standing out side the headmasters office at school thought they were big getting the cane, so it didn't deter them from their dodgy ways.

Re: The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword
 

It might not have worked in every instance but the alternative certainly has not worked as is obvious in the behaviour of today's school children. In 'our day' pupils were far better behaved and did not answer back or disrupt as is often the case now. As Margaret so rightly said parents were unlikely to go charging into the school throwing their weight about because their child had been chastised. In many cases these days the parents are worse than the children. The mamby pamby approach does not work either.

Re: The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword
 

Rowlf, you took the words right out of my mouth.
Way back then the classes were more disciplined and there was less disruption. Which meant that our learning had a level of continuity that perhaps is a little lacking today.
Corporal punishment meant that you were made aware that your actions had consequences.....and if you do not learn that early then you are not going to do very well in your life.

Re: The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword
 

Its all about respect, if a kid has no respect, then they have learnt that off their parents, far as i'm concerned.!!

Re: The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword
 

In 'our day' were pupils better behaved?

I have several Grandkids in school, they behave very well thank you, if anything they look forward to going in, I however found school a threat, not because I'd actually done anything wrong, nor was I likely to, but because the low standard of bullying teachers encouraged bullying within the pupils themselves.

Re: The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword
 

Of course not all children are badly behaved....and it would be wrong to imply that they are.
But there are some children who get no discipline at home and when teachers try to control the class these children are less easy to get compliance from....because they don't have boundaries at home they cannot see any reason to adhere to boundaries set by school.
We saw this recently in a news item about a young girl who went to school with Beyoncé type braids, despite this being against the school rule.
Rules that are clearly explained before the children start school.
Now what difference does it make that this girl has fashionable braids? Does it stop her from learning? No of course it doesn't, but it IS against school rules.
What does the girls father do....
He berates the school for excluding his girl.
Now when this child leaves school and enters the world of work, she will be required to follow rules and regulations within the workplace.
She will find this difficult as she feels she should be able to do as she pleases.

School is the foundation which equips us for life in the working world...or that is the theory.

Re: The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword
 

I did not imply that ALL children are badly behaved. My own grandson is well mannered and polite and certainly does not disrupt in class but as Cashman rightly says the manners and respect should be learnt at home. It should not be up to teachers to teach those things. It is however a sad fact that these days there are more bad mannered and unruly children than there used to be. A lot of parents these days do not take the trouble to teach good manners or to respect other people or their property. Fewer children say 'Please' and 'Thank you' , to me an essential lesson from a very young age.

Re: The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword
 

All i can go off is me own life, The day i started school, i had at least the basics of respect, "Don't talk back to yer elders" give yer seat up on bus to elderly, and various stuff like that, summat my parents had instilled in me.and remember we started at 4 years old back then, now parents have till the kids are 5, but many dont bother teaching such stuff, its very little to do with teachers in my view, the basic stuff SHOULD be taught before a kid goes to school.

Re: The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword
 

The Happiest Days of our Lives (Roger Waters)

When we grew up and went to school
There were certain teachers who would
Hurt the children in any way they could

"OOF!" [someone being hit]

By pouring their derision
Upon anything we did
And exposing every weakness
However carefully hidden by the kids
But in the town, it was well known
When they got home at night, their fat and
Psychopathic wives would thrash them
Within inches of their lives.

Re: The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword
 

I had a slate with a slate pencil ... I think that's what they called 'em.;)

By the way, for those interested: "The Oxford Book of Schooldays," Patricia Craig.

Re: The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword
 

hated school from day one and lived in constant fear of the cane which was given out for things that are run of the mill these days. was brought up to question things and not believe everything you are told. this did not go down well with the 1950,s education system where you were expected to be religeous and a lover of the king and queen. do agree about the present days kids or should i say students behaviour but i,d hate us to go back to those dark days again.

Re: The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword
 

Like you, I had an enquiring mind,(still have) but could not read until I was seven(it was all greek to me) but once i could read I made up for lost time.
I was sensible enough to know that inquisitiveness was not really valued at school, but it was alright at home.
I liked school, but there were times when the teachers scared me, but I don't quite know why, as I was only subjected to corporal punishment there the once.
The teachers were very authoritarian(maybe it was that).

Re: The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword
 

Swop authoritarian for nowt but bullies that was my school.

Re: The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword
 

I remember being physically sick every day waiting for the bus to Peel Park when I was about 7yrs old. I was in Mrs Beckers class and she frightened me to death. She never hit me. I dont think the jam jar bottom glasses and the over powering perfume helped. She took a dislike to me and was always on my case. I once pulled myself up to my full height
and told her if she did not stop shouting at me I would bring my dad to her and he would have his clogs on. Ha ha bet that frightened her. Where I got the courage for it I shall never know. It was the one and only time I ever talked to a teacher that way.

Re: The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword
 

At junior school one of the teacher would take her PMT out on the lads, we all wore shorts back then, when she (wrongly) decided to take her vengeance against the male population she would lift the shorts in front of the class and attack his buttocks with either her hand or on the bad days a plimsoll.
About 10 years after suffering such humiliation I was on a dinner break from work.
She was walking towards me with I assume a student teacher in tow.
I pleasantly asked if she was miss such & such, oh yes she replied, then turned to the student and said, it's always such a joy to be recognised by former pupils.
I asked, are you still lifting boys trousers and taking your frustration out on them? Because as far as I'm concerned if you are you are as sick now as you were then.

The student teacher, was trying her best not to laugh, but she knew I was asking for a true answer.

Re: The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword
 

I remember the hard wood blackboard cleaner very well from secondary School. My English teacher could throw it at you with 1cm accuracy anywhere in the classroom and there was no escape no matter where you sat. He would usually shout your name first then launch it at you hoping for maximum impact.

On the up side I bumped into my owd headmaster in my 40's and he was a smashing chap then retired. He was so encouraging and understanding to us all as kids and was just the same then as he was when I chatted to him.

Re: The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword
 

Hmm! the old blackboard cleaner – wasn’t that the primary reason for having one, to throw at students…. We had a science teacher who not only threw the chalk rubber-outer but also an empty syrup tin of the large size (at least it wasn’t full!). He threw this with great accuracy – but I have to admit it was only at boys. The girls he delighted in tormenting by creeping up on them unawares and pulling their hair very hard – especially those with plaits….and it hurt!

Re: The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword
 

Regarding the cane. The first school I attended had had the same headmaster since the year dot – or so it seemed. He believed in the cane and used it quite often but only on boys. When his current cane either broke or ‘disappeared’ (strange how often that happened) he would ask for a couple of volunteers to go for a walk down the fields and bring him back a long branch that would make another. There would always be two who would volunteer thinking it would be free time out of school but when they returned with suitable stick, all excited because they’d found one and expecting praise, the dear old headmaster would instead try it out on them first to make sure it was a good one. Some boys would fall for this every time. Suckers!

When he was caning a lad he always made sure that he caned the hand not used for holding a pen (by the way, this was long before the biro was invented!!!!) and then he would place the end of the cane under the hand, then over, under, over, under and then whack! whack! whack!

Re: The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword
 

This same headmaster was there when my siblings attended that school (a lot of years before me) and was very handy with the cane even then. One of my sisters told me of a painful trick played on him when she was in his class. Apparently he suffered from haemorrhoids quite badly so he always had a thin cushion on his chair. One day some of the lads who had suffered at his hands placed a number of drawing pins on said cushion (points facing up of course) and as these were of a similar colour to the cushion they were undetectable – that is until the poor man sat down on them……

Re: The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword
 

Just goes to show, back then teachers weren't teachers, they were bullies with no idea how to treat children, hopefully, there is now a bond of learning that allows them to teach and that has our prodigy willing to learn.