Please Read; The Seats The Facts!!
 

Here are the facts re the extra seats required:

The Football League rules state that all member clubs must have 2000 COVERED seats by the 1st of May of the 3rd seson of membership.
On this basis we can't seat the Coppice end without building a Clayton End type cover ( Seat cost + roof cost 200K approx) This expensive option would also reduce the FES under the 5000 capacity required. Therefore currently a none starter.

The next option was to put a number of temporary modular stands each section with 80 seats in on the Whinney Hill side. Again cost was prohibitive and no grants would be available

The next big option was a brand new all signing and dancing 1000 seater stand with new facalities (dressing rooms, offices, corperate facilities etc ) This would cost around 400K with a 40% Football Foundation grant available. Cost to ASFC around £240K For obvious reasons, at present a non starter.

The final option that was only discovered this week is the current plan Dave O'Neill outlined in the programme yesterday. If we add seats under the Cowshed roof it will give us an option of seating the away fans at minimal expense ( we are making use of what already exists)

Finally we have looked at a stand at Macclesfield where seats are placed in front of the terracing, exactly what the current plan is. By using the existing profile of the Clayton End, there will be a minor loss of capacity, but we will conform to the FL regulations. We will be making the best use of the existing Clayton End roof and space.

We agree nobody may use these seats BUT they have to be in place.

Lets stop moaning about the Football League rules, we all knew when we beat Woking that the club and ground would have to change. Lets concentrate on bringing new fans in.

Somebody on another post has said that its going to be rather crowded on the Clayton End. Surely that will make for a better atmosphere??
Currently there are around 600 loyal fans that use the Clayton End and the Whinney Hill. This area has a current capacity of over 2000. Personally can't see an issue. If you want me to have a wander around at the next match, I'll gladly do so.

Lets be positive, we all want ASFC to progress as a FOOTBALL LEAGUE team, these changes are vital to do so.

As and when funds become available, other plans MAY allow us to look at the other options that have been outlined, and then allow the club to return the Clayton End to full terracing ( Goverment Legislation permitting)

Re: Please Read; The Seats The Facts!!
 

OK, cheers for giving us the facts, SR. Still think it's going to feel a bit strange, but as it would seem that there is no other economically viable option, we'll just have to grin and bear it! :)

Re: Please Read; The Seats The Facts!!
 

I would think there is more chance of seeing Champions League football at the FES than wait for the clowns in power to make football grounds how specatators want them. In which case you will have to have an all seater stadium anyway so at least the first phase will be in place :D

Re: Please Read; The Seats The Facts!!
 

Don't see how we don't have funds for players and we don't have funds for a stand - we got a hell of a lot for craney and it just seems to have disappeared.

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the club did state that seats in the clayton end would not be an option... kept everyone quiet and happy at the time.. oh well.. i guess i was just as gullible as the rest..

Re: Please Read; The Seats The Facts!!
 

Running a full time club, with full-time League 2 players, on regular gates of less than 1500.... I don't think we need Nancy Drew to solve that mystery do we?


Thanks SR for your clarification. It will mean changes to the way that we consume our football, but it seems the most logical and sensible resolution.

Re: Please Read; The Seats The Facts!!
 

so you think when the club budget for the season to run the club they take into account selling a couple of our best players to survive ? or do you think the club budgeted for more than 1500 fans and where forced to sell..

I gave you a hell of a lot more credit than this TM..

Re: Please Read; The Seats The Facts!!
 

I remember people thanking the club for clarifying there wouldnt be seats going in the clayton end... wierd eh :)

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Maybe the club can operate more on its own merits due to increased revenue, rather than relying on top-ups from certain individuals? Who knows? I'm a shareholder and have no idea how the club operates financially.

As for my thanking SR, then it seemed the polite thing to do as he regularly communicates with the fans via the forum. It's a nice and appreciated touch.

Have you been eating lemons for lunch K-P? You seem a little bitter.

Re: Please Read; The Seats The Facts!!
 

Please believe me the Clayton End seat option was only thought of this week.

We really wanted to develop the Whinney Hill side, but the seating experts have suggested the Clayton End option.

There has been no intention to upset or decive our loyal fans.

We have to take the cheapest option at present UNLESS there's a very generous benefactor out there.

With current average gates of less than 2000 things like the Craney sales, Tranmere TV money etc are going into the day to day account. The money simply isn't available for impressive ground development.

Re: Please Read; The Seats The Facts!!
 

the fact that the club have no extra dosh, has always been obvious to all but the very dim IMHO. those that think different need a reality check! do they want league football is the question. ya don't have to be happy about it (i aint), but thats the way it is.

Re: Please Read; The Seats The Facts!!
 

If the club has no extra cash how are they going to buy the seat's for a start, or are we going to use the Great Harwood Town style concrete block and plank approach, who know's

Re: Please Read; The Seats The Facts!!
 

as far as i'm aware its not extra cash, its whats already in place fer summat that has to be done or else, is that so difficult to comprehend?:rolleyes:

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Im happy atm where we are in the football league and our ground is fine , however you always hear the club and fans saying they want their club to go forward. Wouldnt this be better done by building the all dancing singing stand. 1. We can charge away fans more bringing in extra money. 2. Little things like new changing rooms and facilitys attract players and its a more postive and proffesional enviroment which may cause the team to be more positive and win more games 3.More money from renting out BRAND NEW rooms and offices to businesses on match days and other days during the week. 4. Money from a business sponsering a NEW STAND. I have no problem with the seats being put in the Clayton End as long as Accrington Stanley stay in the FL. However wouldnt a new stand be the way forward and a good investment + looking to the future and even better getting some money via what i have just stated above?

Re: Please Read; The Seats The Facts!!
 

Not quite as straightforward as that, you have to charge them the same as the home fans with a comparable view, although some clubs do try and get round it with various membership schemes.

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This option may have only been thought of this week but I do not believe it is the first time the club considered seating the Clayton End, this option to me is you have sold us out.

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I've thought a bit more and I would rather stand in the rain on the Coppice End than accept the option of seating the Clayton End, but I've no doubt that will be next years plan.

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Right this is the bit I dont follow so can someone explain it to me.. Did the club think they where going to be getting above 2k average gate this season and budgeted for that? I dont believe they would have as rob heys has said on this form that they budget for far lower.. theres nothing happened to indicate we would get anywhere near that amount..

So why is craney, roberts ect and tv money going to day to day running that must have already been budgeted for? How could the club possibly know we where getting all that money?? What happens next season if we dont sell a couple of our best players and we dont appear on TV .. are you saying we wouldnt have enough money to survive?

Sorry but for me the explanation doesnt add up at all.

Re: Please Read; The Seats The Facts!!
 

.. So in your household KP, you don't have 'unplaned' things happening eg. dishwasher breaking down,car problems,unexpected family event requireing capital outlay, rates/power increase..etc?.. ...You budget for some BUT Murphys law kicks in and you have to find the extra $$$ from your day-to day expenses.yea, I've never been to the FES, and astheticaly seats at the Clayton end might look odd, but if thats what it takes to keep the club viable, so be it.Its what happens inside the white rectangle that really counts.

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whats happened at stanley that they havent budgeted for that costs the price of players sold and 37k tv money.. ??? cant think of anyhting? no neither can I


I dont usually care less how the club is run and happy to leave it to those that know how... But when directors of the club come in here and tell us stories that dont add up then i ask questions.. Funny like that.. :)

Re: Please Read; The Seats The Facts!!
 

Exactly... roughly 200k windfall which cannot have been budgeted for comes into the club and yet seems to disappear without a trace. It was either an incredibly stupid move by the club budgeting for 200k coming from nowhere which very fortunately came off or we've got an extra 200k to play with.

Re: Please Read; The Seats The Facts!!
 

quite right Bagpuss
http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...rta-31702.html

Re: Please Read; The Seats The Facts!!
 

Having read a number of post's it appears we are split on the Clayton End seat debate infact the entire seast debate is a mess... As Eric has gone gone on record we need to fit the seats to put nobody on them, however as Southern Red has stated when we beat Woking we signed up to the rules of the Football League. We need to face facts here we need the seats by law and that law is set in stone by the FL.

Credit must go to Southern Red who has come on here and explained the facts from the Boards point of view, now how many club Directors would come onto a M/B and for that Mark must be applauded. Dave O'Neil has picked up this project and has very little money and a tight time schedule, he is having to move fast on this to ensure we have everythhing in place on time and if keeping Football League status means putting seats under a roof in the Clayton End then so be it, now dont get me wrong the Fans who gather under the roof and sing their hearts out must be a bit brassed off but put simply chaps and ladies the question remains Standing Terrace or Football League status what do we all want, I personally have a lot of trust in Dave as new GM and given time to sort out funding and grants my money would be on this being a short term soloution and one day the Whinney Hill being all seating, but thats for the future.

Budgets - Leave me out on that i dont do finance but one thing is for sure the past 8 years have seen a improvement on the clubs league position and better facilities every year, I for one have faith in Eric, Rob Dave AND HAVE GREAT RESPECT FOR Mark for coming on here to try to help explain the situation.

On Stanley On

Re: Please Read; The Seats The Facts!!
 

Macca,

Your wisdom and old post are to be appreciated.

However seats on the Clayton End are a very new thought, because as we do this we have to make further ground improvements to keep the 5K capacity.

The club have attempted to resist these canges, they have approached the League to ask for an exemption. This has been refused.

Barnet were in the same postion, they have built a new stand without any increase in gates. Morecambe and Dagenham will be in the same postion this time next year. However we all knew the rules when we applied to join the League, we have to abide by them.

Re: Please Read; The Seats The Facts!!
 

what gets me is putting seats at the front of the clayton end leaving the back for people to stand up in! now to get on the clayton end is £13.00 adult price to stand up! now if we have the seats put in will they charge £15.00 same as main stand? what if someone pays to stand up but sits down the whloe game thats £2.00 lost per person who pays for standing up but sits down now 10 people who do that is an extra £10.00 lost 100 people is £100.00 all adds up for rest of the season! if we have to have seats than thats what we have to do some people will not like it becuase accy is know to be all terrace so it will look different but people will just have to get used to it! i think that we should just build the new stand on the coppice end with the offices etc all extra money and stuff aint it


keep the faith :D

Re: Please Read; The Seats The Facts!!
 

Whats the problem, them seats will look good full of flags and banners :rolleyes: :D :D

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Not likely to charge the same as main stand, most clubs charge more for seats down the side than seats behind the goal. As they are only going in to satisfy league demand I would imagine the club will still treat it the same and people have the choice of sitting or standing.

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Good money spinner, flag charge for each seat it takes up :D

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Blackburn already do it so why not us:D

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it should be quite compact behind the seats.. might even make for a better atmosphere in the long run..

guess i am not getting an answer re the dodgy budget explanation then..

Re: Please Read; The Seats The Facts!!
 

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/s...s/viewpost.gif
Yes, I did. Never learn, do I? Anyway, I'm really cheesed off about it. I waited over 40 years for something like the Clayton End at Stanley and I love it. Once these seats are installed, I reckon it just won't "feel" right anymore. Does anybody else feel the same...or am I making a mountain out of a molehill?
I'm with you 100% mate. Thought it must be April 1st when I heard about the plan. "Lower part of the Clayton end"? - it ain't deep enough to have a lower part! Just how many rows of standing would be left behind the bloody seats? If there is no other way apart from the proper solution of the Whinney Hill side being redeveloped ( and I am also at a loss about the budget along with KP), then why not just have the the necessary seats at each end ot the Clayton end? The behind the goal area could still then be for standng only.Without the standing block of Utras and their older brethren the whole matchday experience will be destroyed for ever.

Re: Please Read; The Seats The Facts!!
 

Contractors are looking for projects to tender for, steel prices are struggling like they haven't for years, and we got a good price for Ian Craney even after Swansea got their cut. Hopefully the club got some TV money for the six parter as well.

After the Clayton End, I was looking forward to Stanley building a nice facility on the Whinney Hill side at a price that the club could afford. Seats at the front of the Clayton End and the Whinney Hill stand retained with seats won't enhance the appearance of the ground and will detract from many people's match day experience.

The seating plans will no doubt have to take account of the arrangements needed for getting out of the Whinney Hill stand in an emergency with all those seats in there.

Re: Please Read; The Seats The Facts!!
 

Build the new stand i say and get the extra money from new offices , new facilitys and most importantly the many away fans we could charge to sit in it! Look how many bury brought this weekend. Stick a thousand of them in the new stand and get £16/£18 a person. Weve got to look to the future not temporary basis all the time. It would be a great investment. I havent a clue where that 200k has gone for ian craney. Maybe erics dentist bill?

Re: Please Read; The Seats The Facts!!
 

To anyone at the club reading this thread take note of this post.

Re: Please Read; The Seats The Facts!!
 

Now you're talking FC.
IMHO we blundered in not taking a the forward view when we delayed the building of the Clayton end roof. Look how many came for the free-entry Torquay game and packed the Clayton end, but then mostly beggared off at half time because of the weather. We lost a hell of a lot of potential new fans that day, missing the thrilling end to the game. Banks were practically throwing money around when we should have speculated, and OK things are very different now, but surely "where there's a will there's a way"?

Re: Please Read; The Seats The Facts!!
 

I like that idea, Redraine, and I reckon that the club ought to seriously consider it. It's far, far better than what's being proposed at the moment.

However, the idea of Accrington Stanley building a large, all-seater stand which they have no hope of filling is an idea that fills me with grave misgivings. Why? Because I'm old enough to have seen it before and it ended in disaster! :eek:

Re: Please Read; The Seats The Facts!!
 

Stick the away fans in it and making them pay a silly amount! I know it sounds horrible making them pay alot , but i dont care as we will have more money coming in. That new stand could bring so many benefits!!! Offices , new changing rooms , new cafe?/bar, executive boxes, etc .

Re: Please Read; The Seats The Facts!!
 

Just read this thread several times & still doesn't make any sense??????????????????


Anyone got a new seating map or layout ??????? need to see what its gonna look like otherwise imagination is .... well not looking good to me so far.

Re: Please Read; The Seats The Facts!!
 

i like the idea but you cant charge them a different price to what you charge the home fans! so if they pay silly prices so will the people who dont have a season ticket but just come on every game.

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I thought that league rules stated you could only charge away fans the same as home fans...or am I mistaken? Whatever, it's all very well when you've got a thousand Bury fans, but how often does that happen in a season? What happens at matches like next Saturday's when you get a couple of hundred Brentford fans turning up? That's not going to pay for a new stand. I don't like the idea of seats ANYWHERE in the Clayton End and it will personally make matchdays less enjoyable for me, but I prefer it to being chucked out of the league or economic instability (both of which I have experienced before with Stanley!).

Re: Please Read; The Seats The Facts!!
 

Seriously, a temporary stand as suggested must be the way forward. If not then build a stand and place the control tower in there too aswell as changing facilitys etc. Raising money, whip around the ground every game, beg the council and companys. Down the town every weekend with buckets any moneys better than nothing.

Raise capita with life season tickets again sure the club loses out in the end if people forever go. But if the club is sure its going to go forward then maybe this is the way forward.

Re: Please Read; The Seats The Facts!!
 

So many questions and every answer is rather complicated!!

Briefly, we currently only offer away fans terrace accomodation and we have to charge them what we charge on the home/Clayton end; ie:£13. If we make the away fans sit down we can charge seating prices of £15, ie £2 more each. That was the reason behind the plan to seat the Whinney Hill, it would create additional revenue. However the overall costs are currently very prohibited.

The all signing, all dancing new stand would be superb. But could anybody GUARANTEE even without "the credit crunch" that massive extra corperate revenue would be raised immediately. We tried to make the Sportsman all corporate, that didn't work, in fact the debate behind this has caused more uproar than this issue. To whom are we going to sell office space to now?? Who will buy corporate boxes; Burnley Blackburn and PNE can't fill them them for normal games.

We could charge more for visitors (currently £2 per person) but that will only bring in around £1000 per match, £25k per year. Pay back would be 10 years!!

With regards to what it will look like. Please look at the match gallery for Macc away last season (29/3/08) Look at pictures LC1Y1000 + 1002 + 1014 + 1011. They give good pictures of how their stand looks.

With regard to how it will operate on a match day. Good point the safety team are currently working out the practical implications.

Finally, with regard to seats to the back at either end, to leave the middle totally terraced. My first thoughts are that vision from the seats MAY be impaired. If you sat on the end and across the gangway somebody is stood up, my guess is that the seated person may have his/her view blocked; need to think about that in more detail. I do know Dave O'neill checks the MB regularly, so I'm sure he'll give it some thought, if its practical:)

Re: Please Read; The Seats The Facts!!
 

here

LC1Y1014.jpg :: Macclesfield v Accy

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Thanks KP.

At Macc they charge the same price in that area, sit or stand the punter chooses!!

They reckon they've only filled it once or twice; I wonder if they'll fill it V Everton in the FA Cup or will the TV camera's keep the punters away??

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Da Da da da daaaa

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g1...82/fesplan.jpg

The Joys of MS Paint.

Re: Please Read; The Seats The Facts!!
 

The new stand + facilitys could attract better players to the club too and might influence the players more with it being more of a proffesional enviroment.

Compared to the rovers boxes we could charge a cheaper price as theres are quite alot tbh!

And what nickelson said about having the control room in the new stand would be a great idea and kills two birds with one stone.

Also that picture of the stand at macc with the seats below looks really crap tbh! As you can see also the fans dont like it as their stood up too :)

Southern red , instead of actually building a new , singing dancing stand , can we not just extend and build onto the cow shed?

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Think positive, Red - that's no problem at all. Anyone in the seats could stand up when the ball comes near the pen area like they do in all the Premiership grounds!:D

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Cheers for that fatgaz karma too for the layout:mosher:

LOL even like the extras.....teeth :rofl38:

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Yes fatgaz but what will the seats look like ? artist impression please if you don't mind

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probably something like this


http://www.msequip.com/CollectibleSt...ichStadium.jpg


:)

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Aren't those extras from Robocop??

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I like the way there numbered 1 and 2 ... then if 1 goes missing they will still have 2


boom boom! :)

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might be a bit hard on the elbows

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Its like owt else... no matter what seats are put in.. folk will get used to em soon enough.. I still think the compactness (is that a word?) on the terrace might even improve the atmospehere..

No matter how much moaning goes on... thats the plan and I cant see it changing so its sulk then count to 10 then move forward :)

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you won't be able to moe forward for the seat's you will fall over then lol

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What time does the real comedian get here? ;)

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1. correct. Futher along in the thread I quoted, on page 2, I made
a prediction .....

.... seems spot on to me. If the Clayton Enders were really that bothered, and could be arsed to sign a petition, would it get anywhere? No, cos time is too short. Build it this way or we go down - it's simple.

2. It might be a new idea in its present guise but its not a new idea. At the time of my original quoted post I had been told that the idea was discussed and was a no brainer really and would probably happen. This has become true no matter who has thought of the idea this time around. It still always comes back to the man in charge. If seven directors, a general manager, a chief executive and a vice-chairman all thought that a new stand was do-able but Eric didn't, who would win?

3. An admirable attempt but 'spin'. It was never gonna cut any ice for reason 4 ........

4. Exactly. We all knew from day one that this was gonna have to be done if we were still in the league. Maybe we didn't expect to be here and thought that we could avoid doing the work?


To be honest I don't think it will be too bad. We all get to stay in the league for another year at least and the Clayton End will look a little fuller. With the extra seats available we may be able to start doing a lot more promotion around town and give/donate tickets all over the place to fill them up a bit. Liam's little army could be seated directly in front of the Ultras (if the language is cut out) thus adding a shed load more noise and giving the little 'uns a better day out. Kipax is right, the squashed up again feeling will return and will probably amplify the atmosphere for many. The noise will doubtless pick up a touch more. But .....

for me the point of promotion can be better explained with a better word - progress. Its not enough to just keep saying that "we are playing in such and such a league, think yourselves lucky". We should be progressing on and off the pitch in roughly equal measures. Part of the reason, IMHO, that we find ourselves in such a pickle with regards to low attendances etc is that we have never invested enough off the pitch. The roof is great but has less people under it than has been on that end for five years. Why? - cos it came too late. It should have been done in the first Conference season. Many of the new fans we gained that season, and through the great FA Cup run, and the fabled return to the league would possibly still be here. They aren't because they wouldn't pay £10 then £12 then £13 to get wet. New fans aren't hardcore and don't put up with ****e conditions, they expect to get value for money. Now we are trying to attract more families, partially as a drive to attract the 'fans of the future'. Admirable but what do we offer them when they get here? They generally want to sit down but the main stand has more leaks than last years defence. The Clayton End even has leaks in it FFS (because we won't spend a little bit more and get some quality bitumen painted on). But then even the new seats will be right at the front edge of the stand and they will still get wet, and have the wind at their faces.

A new stand will cost a lot more money than we reputedly have money for, but this is fault of those that run the club. I won't beat about the bush and pretend any more that we are doing all we can because we aren't. There are people behind the scenes who put in a lot of effort, there are people behind the scenes that want to push the club regardless. But it still comes down to one man that certain things arenm't done very well. Many folk have vented their spleens at Lee for various reasons to do with merchandise but it isn't his decision whether or not we pay suppliers and be able to replenish stock once it's sold. It isn't his decision whether we build a bigger shop. It isn't his decision whether we take payment now and send you the goods if we ever get them. It's no wonder he sometimes doesn't respond to emails because he is probably embarrassed at having to keep going over the same old story. It's not the fault of the ladies in the beer huts when the beer (cans) run dry half an hour before a game even starts. Its not their fault when the away end only has two crates of lager in it before 1200 Bury fans come for the last game of the season on a gloriously sunny Spring saturday.

Eric banned the word 'promotion' around the club until it was mathematically impossible not to be promoted from the Conference - and we wondered why there was no merchandise available to capitalise?

The point of it all is ...... We have cut corners for years and the fans have voted with their feet. In the current climate we have no chance of enticing hundreds of new fans to come to the FES, but if we had made more effort a few years ago we would be better off for it now. Yes we are in the Football League for probably a fourth year running but we are still a Unibond club in many eyes. Eric and co should not be surprised when a few more people vote with the feet at no longer standing on an exclusively terraced goal end. They should not be surprised when yet more fans of visiting clubs ridicule us for our part 'completed?' stand

If we ever did get to the League 1 and their rules stipulate that you must have x amount more seats in then the excuse will be that we our skint and can't afford to develop Whinney Hill so we'll stick the extra seats on the Clayton End cos we've already got some there. Once they are in they will only ever be added to., never taken out

Re: Please Read; The Seats The Facts!!
 

Finally, with regard to seats to the back at either end, to leave the middle totally terraced. My first thoughts are that vision from the seats MAY be impaired. If you sat on the end and across the gangway somebody is stood up, my guess is that the seated person may have his/her view blocked; need to think about that in more detail. I do know Dave O'neill checks the MB regularly, so I'm sure he'll give it some thought, if its practical



Surely with what most of us are saying on here, IF the seats where on both sides the crowd would / could STAND in the centre and mostly NOT SIT down the sides!:confused::confused: And as someone has said previously STAND UP when there is some action!!!!

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Very passionate! And possibly very very true.

Good post.

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macca.. theres only one way to get extra fans.. surely we all know it... and its got nothing to do with the ground.. what we all said should happen years ago is finally happening now... there was around 50 kids on saturday with liam.. they are the future and they will be the ultras in years to come... the club will reap those rewards in time.. especially if it grows as it seems to be doing..

Forget everyhting else.. the one most important thing for the future of this club is what the FITC team are doing now! Thats the truth of it.. When the fan base grows over long term then so will the club.. and when the club grows all your dreams will come true :)

There are no quick fixes..

Re: Please Read; The Seats The Facts!!
 

I agree Kipax, but there are also more ways of getting much, much more money out of the people that do come - especially new fans who are eager for the extras.


FCStanley keeps banging on about a new stand having office space and executive boxes in it whilst SR says who would fill em in the current climate? The fact remains that it would cost only a few hundred pound extra to incorporate the design of an office into a newbuild structure but this could be worth an absolute bare minimum of £50 a week rent to a small office based company. An 'executive' (very loosely termed) box need only cost £20-30 per game per person with a bit of lunch chucked in but it would be an extra that has cost next to now and helps the structure pay for itself.

The Football in the Community scheme is self funded - i.e the club pays nowt towards it (or shouldn't need to). There are grants available from hundreds of different sources (and the football league provide assistance with acquiring it) as long the purpose is community based. Quick example and by no means a 'should do' We could approach the Youth Offenders programme and ask them for a couple of thousand pound for some new inititiative that provides the little scallies with a worthwhile pursuit. Government department responsible for Young thugs then gives us five grand to buy some trackies and hoodies to give em while they paint our turnstiles. etc etc. We could put in for funding towards a sports hall for disabled children from the Sport For All Council, we could put in a bid for money from the Criminally challenged people for Acquainting Traveller children within the community, or what about the Diversity Forum that we championed and helped set up? that could be worth a few quid in terms of setting up some kind base from which to establish their teachings to multi culture? Pendle Red posted something earlier this year about the No Limits people putting some money into Rovers and Burnley and establishing some form of permanent business help venture at the respective stadiums. I know we have a business link with No Limits but have they been able to fund anything for us?

The principle I am explaining is that we have had three years to explore ways of making the stand pay for itself and we haven't found a way of making £240k (SR's figure) do that?

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good post K-P, been saying that fer 3 years now, as wynonie will verify. and also would like to ask southern red, who's view will seats at both ends restrict? most will be empty anyway as i'm damn sure he knows.

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and if there only paying £13 there getting cheap seats anyway. you pay less for restricted views :-)
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the above is exactly whats killing the sport as a whole.. Not accy stanley... all clubs.. the exodus to non league clubs started a long time ago.. they even came to stanley to get away from the above... now we have turned into one of those clubs

I know we have to do it... doesnt mean I have to like it though...

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don't think exodus is correct K-P, a trickle maybe, going off the non league gates i see in various papers, not noticed em rising much in last few years.:confused:

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selling merchandise to the fans is killing the sport?

thats what I mean, things like team posters for the kids to 'decorate' their rooms, celebratory t-shirts, mugs etc. Wherever I have worked I am 'the Stanley fan' it is my duty to use a Stanley mug to reiterate that fact - not just one style but a variety. Scarves - we tend to have that lasts for three or four seasons possibly because we charge a little dearly (and I'm not interested in other clubs might charge the same). Charge less and sell more, re-coup the 'loss' on higher turnover by changing it every year. Badges - they sell so get em in. We did well on the kit style badge and should do that every year. Order in a small quantity and when they are gone they're gone - create a must buy it quickly mentality. Thats not killing football - it re-inforces ones passion for a club to have knick-knacks around the house. I'd have a team photo up at work but I can't buy one from the shop and I should be able to walk in and pick up an A4 framed picture for about £6. There are no-marks on ebay selling old pictures that they have scanned from books - why can't we? oops I'm rambling now but there are three sets of fans;

1) existing fans - above all else look after them. You've already got em hooked so don't let them go. Fleece them of whatever money you can for things they want - but don't overcharge them for what they must have. ie tickets and club colours

2) ex-fans - used to be existing fans but for whatever reason felt they could wander away/weren't being looked after

3) fans of the future - very important to look to the future but you can not rely on what might be to come.

My point about getting more money out of those that do go is that a fan spends a certain amount of money practically every game. I usually spend £10 on fags, £25 on booze £3.50 on food then my admission. The club can't get my fag money but they could get my booze money, they could get my food money. Identify what people spend their money on at football and then try to get it. Multiply by a hundred people then multiply by 23 home games. That certainly wouldn't kill football at our level but could only enhance it.

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thats not what i said.. thats not what i quoted... .. this is what i quoted


The mentality of lets get as much money as we can out of the fans is whats killing it... exactly what your saying in your posts.. i will say again i know why we have to do it.. I am not saying dont.. I am saying I dont like it

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being a little dramatic helps get the point accross :)

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Maybe there's another angle to this. I'm not thrilled at the idea of seats on the Clayton end like a lot of folks on here but if it gets us to the point where it conforms to the rules and is less expensive and temporary then I can live with it. Also, some peeps have been wondering what's happened to the money for players and TV etc. If it means the club can now divert some money from the stand project into strengthening the team in January then I'd go for it. I'm thinking Charnock and we'd have to pay for him right?

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Wouldnt we all.. but theres no sign of that happening.. wishfull thinking unfortunatly..

I will ask questions if I see something I think is odd.. but at the end of the day we have a club running in the black that doesnt owe anyone money (accroding to eric a few months ago) and I doubt many of us on here could do better than that :)

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Why ? Have you seen a sign saying that we're not in for Charnock or something ? If not, it's still possible ain't it ?

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I think he means the view of any fans in the seats at the sides may be impaired, but as I replied to him:-

"Think positive, Red - that's no problem at all. Anyone in the seats could stand up when the ball comes near the pen area like they do in all the Premiership grounds!":D
Sorted?

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Why ? Have you seen a sign saying that we are in for Charnock or something ?


Reply in january when we havent paid out money for anyone.. If we buiy charnock i will come in here and eat my hat .... of course i wont really but the thoughts there :)

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Will reply to other questions as time permits later;

But the main question that reoccurs is the restricted view. From what I know but will have to check the small print I think there could be two problems by putting the seats at both wings of the Clayton End.

1) I don't expect the safety people will allow you to permit seats that encourage people to stand to gain a view. ie: if you HAD to stand to see the action every time the ball went goal bound that will be seen as a safety risk. (IMHO)

2) If you sold these seats as having a restricted view, which you could do by charging the same price as the terrace (as Macc do) they may not count towards the 2000 seats required by the FL. I'm not sure of this point but it defeats the object of a seating requirement if you can't atcually seem the pitch ( Hereford have huge problems with this; from the front row of the main stand you can't see the touchline, but the have enough seats further back in the stand)

The points raised are all good ones, but believe me the club are looking at ALL options.:)

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Can I just say that all of the above we are doing and have been doing for several months :)

Thanks,

Liam

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n thats a fair point, can't disagree wi that.:)

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I know that and you know that but many people don't know how the FITC works.

The comments weren't in any way a criticism of the FITC, far from it, more an example of extra ways that the reported £240k could possibly have been made up. It would always have involved an element of speculation though so would always have been a non starter :p

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If the safety authorities/rules allow seats to be placed in front of terracing (and presumably that is being investigated by the Club) wouldn't some form of barrier need putting behind the seats (to protect them from crowd surge) possibly to meet their requirements and wouldn't those barriers reduce the available standing area possibly cutting capacity below the 5000 or whatever the League require? What if there was a crush between those barriers and the structural back of the Clayton End stand?

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The barrier is already there, it would just need extending. The club are in discussions with LCC and the FLA as to what exactly needed. Please look at the KIPAX photo from Macc to see what already exists there.:)

With regards to capacity; we think we will need to add addition terracing to the Coppice End inplace of the toliet block. (more portaloos required, more expense!!):mad:

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The Star Lane End is a relatively new covered stand, that is a strange mix of seating and terracing. Strange and unusual in having a terrace area behind the seating area. Apparently seating was added to the terrace in this way, so that the Club could fulfil the then Football League's rules concerning the number of seats that a Club ground needed to be admitted into the Football League.

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This is Maccs new stand !!! imagin the seats in red and called the whinney hill stand :) wishfull thinking i know but wouldn't it look good:)http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/pa.../maccles23.jpg

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Looks well, even better to walk through, contains offices upstairs and work place ( laundry kit rooms etc underneath)

However was funded by strange financial methods which were subsequently deemed incorrect by the FA!!!;)

The Star Lane though is cheap and practical and would work for Accy.
A team of officials made a visit last week

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can i ask fer what purpose?:)

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To see exactly how the Star Lane End compared to the Clayton End, to view the profile, take measurements and look at the access.

We also spoke to their Chief Exc to understand how they operate this stand from a practical and safety point of view.

Their information was superb. ASFC's has a good name with other clubs and they will offer help and advice:)

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thanks fer that southern red, was just wondering. its good that stanley has a good name with other clubs, they should have being a founder member.:)

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Rather than having the inner boundary of the seats at each side running at 90 degrees back, why not have them angled at 45 degrees (or a more acute angle) from the front? Views from them should then be OK and those who love to stand right behind the goal could still get their fix. The standing area would be more of a wedge shape, narrowing down from nearly full width at the back to about the width of the six yard box at the front, the exact proportions depending on how many seats are needed.

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david o'neil states in the telegraph today that we budget for crowds of 2000!!!

what!! we haven't (officially) had that ever!!!

but at least that clears up any misunderstandings that Kipax has regarding where the transfer money has gone.

Even more woryingly it goes on to say that the new seats will be blue as they has some that Man City were disposing of.


ya kept that bit quiet Mr Turner :rolleyes:

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Liam can get his little army on the job with some red marker pens :D

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MACCA - You seem to be spending a lot of time composing these messages. Why don't you concentrate your energies on finding the memorabilia that you haven't yet returned to me from the exhibition?

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What? Why on earth would they do that...

sniff sniff... whats that smell ?

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The blue seats IF we use them will be for the Whinney Hill side ONLY and will be at a good price to ASFC; FREE OF CHARGE!!!! What does the colour matter if there's away suppporters sat on them!!!

When I spoke to Dave O'neill at length (last week) the intention then was to put new seats in the Clayton End. If we buy new seats then we can obvoiusly choose the colour.

Anyway who's to say a some stage our 2nd or 3rd choice kit won't be blue?? Seem to remember a team from Accy winning over 10 games in the Conference. Coley wanted to play to blue every match at that time. We even played at Hereford in blue rather than the red!!

When will people understand unless another rich benefactor comes along, we current have to continue to take the least cost option!!
Due to the way the club has run under EW's stewardship I guess that whilst EW is still in charge "least cost options" will be favoured at ASFC even IF there was rich benefactor to get involved!!

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I think that everybody does understand that Mark, and we all also understand that cutting corners, I mean costs, although essential most of the time, is partially why we are in the predicament we are in!

Jeff, please re-read the various PM's you have had rather than stalking the threads.

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the thing is though blue seats will look odd as usualy the seats match the colour of the home kit e.g united have red and white seats due to thier home kit being red and white1 rovers have blue and white seats due to thier home kit being blue and white, so haveing red seats in the clayton end and blue seats in the cow shed end will look odd and make us even look more tin-pot so surely spending abit more on the seats will save us from that embarrassment

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I think the point is that we don't spend un-necessarily and a bit of embarrasment or tinpotedness here and there costs us nowt but neither would it make us owt should we avoid it.

Therefore I offer up a couple of spare dining room chairs that can be used - they're in a fetching shade of yellow :thankya:

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hey you might have summat there rob... why dont the club have a "bring a chair day" .....hehe :)

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The various PM's you have sent me just pass the responsibility on to somebody else. You collected the memorabilia from my house, you are responsible for it, you have even taken scans of it and now you cannot return it to me. YOUR RESPONSIBILITY. I am not stalking the threads, I just think that you should maybe spend some time looking for my IRREPLACEABLE MEMORABILIA that you are responsible for instead of posting on here.

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Many of the seats in our existing stand were blue at one time, as they came from the Nuttall St stand at Ewood Park. Maybe it's part of following tradition? ;)

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Barnet used to have green seats and they play in black and amber. We haven't got "abit more" to spend, we run on a shoestring budget.

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blue turnstiles came from.. was it leicster ? go on i know i aint spelt it right..

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If we are pursuing the lower cost option of making the best of what we have it would be not make sense to me to waste money on new seats if and to the extent that good and serviceable second hand ones are available whatever the colour.