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Willie Miller 07-04-2009 22:28
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashman (Post 701949)
spot on john, gives me no pleasure to say it but it should be no other way.:(
Me too

MCR ADIM 07-04-2009 22:29
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
But why where they overpriced! With us low in the league and them in 13th place and us 17th place! Surely they should be odd's to win
Football - League Two - Standing - Teams - 2007-2008 - 46th Day - Yahoo! Eurosport

cashman 07-04-2009 22:30
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
last sats balls up was probably genuine mistakes, but in the light of all this, can't blame people fer wondering otherwise.:(

cashman 07-04-2009 22:33
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCR ADIM (Post 701952)
But why where they overpriced! With us low in the league and them in 13th place and us 17th place! Surely they should be odd's to win
Football - League Two - Standing - Teams - 2007-2008 - 46th Day - Yahoo! Eurosport
really MCR that is totally irrelevant all that matters is what the players are charged with doing.

MCR ADIM 07-04-2009 22:35
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
ok i was just saying but i agree with you! All that matters is what the players are charged with doing.

Redraine 07-04-2009 22:52
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redash (Post 701894)
I am absolutely gutted by this. Players from my team, betting against my team. The FA would not have released the names if they was any doubt of their guilt ( they would leave themselves open to all sorts of legal isues). I’m not bothered if it was £5 £50 or £500,000, the point is, they gambled on my team losing.
Now I think back how often has this betting against Stanley, by Stanley players, been going on.
Cavanagh is often romping forward and leaving the defence vulnerable on the counter attack, like last Saturday against Lincoln Phil had to move out to the right to cover for Cavanagh, leaving a massive hole in the centre for the Lincoln players to exploit. How many times has this happened? As the club captain he should set and lead by example. (I’m not saying the Lincoln match was dodgy, I’m just citing an example that will be fresh in the minds of others)
Williams and Harris, how many needless penalties, free kicks, and sending offs have they been involved with.
Was Mannix useless on purpose? Did Mangan keep running to the wing so he wouldn’t be in a scoring position?
I hope the FA ban them all from football stadiums for life. Never to play, never to manage and never to watch.
Exactly what all true Stanley fans must be thinking and suffering because of this terrible situation. I don't care if we have to play youth teamers and we get hammered at Grimsby, but surely Cav and Rocky must be suspended. If not I can forsee a hell of a protest at the next home game.

Bradshaw Boy 07-04-2009 22:52
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Does anybody know what the odds were at the time? I'm not a betting man but with the teams not as far apart in the league as they are this season wouldn't the odds have been something like 2/1 and 21/10 for the win? The odds would have been better for a half time/full time correct score but that would infer the match was fixed if the Bookie is right about the overall amount of money that was bet on the game.

maccawozzagod 07-04-2009 22:56
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
the bookie that is linked to from the Bury Official site was offering around 5-1 and they would refund all bets on a draw.

wadey 07-04-2009 22:58
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
I'm no expert on betting but as you say on a normal win or loose bet on a match between two teams in the same division you'd be very lucky to double your money BUT on spread betting I understand you can bet on anything, win, score, goals in which half, who scored them etc etc

Revived Red 07-04-2009 23:00
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redraine (Post 701964)
Exactly what all true Stanley fans must be thinking and suffering because of this terrible situation. I don't care if we have to play youth teamers and we get hammered at Grimsby, but surely Cav and Rocky must be suspended. If not I can forsee a hell of a protest at the next home game.
I agree. The club MUST take action - and quickly. The statement on the fishy site is certainly inadequate.. As I and others have said earlier in this thread, suspension of the two players is not implying guilt. It is simply the normal course of action in cases of alleged professional misconduct.

MCR ADIM 07-04-2009 23:00
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
If the odds where 5-1 on Bury to win and they bet £4000 than the odds calcatour from betting sites makes that a return of £20,000

Willie Miller 07-04-2009 23:08
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
£24k my ugly friend........

Bradshaw Boy 07-04-2009 23:14
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
5-1 and a refund for a draw - must be related to the same Manc Bookie who pays out on United as soon as they go top of the Premiership every season.

Spread betting is a complicated thing though isn't it - far beyond the wit of your average 4th Division footballer with £4k burning a hole in his pocket

fc:stanley 07-04-2009 23:16
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Mangan scored tonight aswell!

Mr Matthew 07-04-2009 23:55
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Absolutely spot on Bradshaw boy. 21/10, basically treble your money and when Stanley have nothing to play for they don't play.

Wynonie Harris 08-04-2009 08:43
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redash (Post 701894)
I am absolutely gutted by this. Players from my team, betting against my team. The FA would not have released the names if they was any doubt of their guilt ( they would leave themselves open to all sorts of legal isues). I’m not bothered if it was £5 £50 or £500,000, the point is, they gambled on my team losing.
Now I think back how often has this betting against Stanley, by Stanley players, been going on.
Cavanagh is often romping forward and leaving the defence vulnerable on the counter attack, like last Saturday against Lincoln Phil had to move out to the right to cover for Cavanagh, leaving a massive hole in the centre for the Lincoln players to exploit. How many times has this happened? As the club captain he should set and lead by example. (I’m not saying the Lincoln match was dodgy, I’m just citing an example that will be fresh in the minds of others)
Williams and Harris, how many needless penalties, free kicks, and sending offs have they been involved with.
Was Mannix useless on purpose? Did Mangan keep running to the wing so he wouldn’t be in a scoring position?
I hope the FA ban them all from football stadiums for life. Never to play, never to manage and never to watch.
Spot on, mate. totally poleaxed by this...didn't sleep much last night...previous matches and incidents keep playing over in my head...missed open goals and penalties...matches that we were winning only to lose in the last few minutes...maybe all completely innocent, but who knows now?

Also keep thinking about all the waiting in the rain at bus stops...standing on freezing station platforms...rushing up to Accy on dark, depressing Tuesday nights...Saturday afternoons spent in dismal places like Mansfield and Burslem...and for what?...to have this thrown in my face?

The mickey-taking has already started from other fans, but that doesn't bother me...after 49 years supporting the Stanley I've grown used to it. It didn't worry me when I was going to Peel Park in the mid-60s with a few dozen other lunatics, while anyone with any semblance of sanity had long gone. It didn't bother me when I was going on the Crown in the 70's, while anyone who wanted to watch "proper" football went elsewhere.

What does bother me is the thought that members of my own team might have been taking the mickey out of me and the rest of us...now that hurts...that really hurts. :( :( :(

Mr Matthew 08-04-2009 09:31
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Well said Wynonie.

But it can't be just our matches can it. I wonder how many other lower league matches have befallen the same fate. 10's, 100's, 1000's???

One thing putting my mind at ease was it was a completely meaningless match.

cashman 08-04-2009 10:07
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
the team this weekend may well have n impact on mondays gate i reckon.:(

Revived Red 08-04-2009 10:15
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashman (Post 702063)
the team this weekend may well have n impact on mondays gate i reckon.:(
And that is just one reason why the club MUST act and suspend the two players. We know that the club is gripped by inertia in so many matters - but it cannot afford to be inert in this one.

Doug 08-04-2009 10:33
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
I’d echo most of the last few post, although I have been spared all the hassle of travelling and hanging round dodgy places. I feel let down and I feel that the club and Accrington have been let down not to mention the embarrassment.

One of my clients took the **** out of us last night and he’s an eighty odd year old West ham Supporter……I think that the Chairman and the management must be decisive and act with extreme prejudice against those still with us, nothing less than a full suspension until the next transfer window and then see them on their way……..

MCR ADIM 08-04-2009 11:14
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
We are front and back page new in the LET today Accrington Stanley bets probe: reaction (From Lancashire Telegraph)

Accrington Stanley players in match bets probe (From Lancashire Telegraph)

Suspicion grew before Stanley lost Bury game (From Lancashire Telegraph)

We will kick them out if they are guilty - Accrington Stanley (From Lancashire Telegraph)

afrikaaner 08-04-2009 12:03
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris (Post 702028)
Spot on, mate. totally poleaxed by this...didn't sleep much last night...previous matches and incidents keep playing over in my head...missed open goals and penalties...matches that we were winning only to lose in the last few minutes...maybe all completely innocent, but who knows now?

Also keep thinking about all the waiting in the rain at bus stops...standing on freezing station platforms...rushing up to Accy on dark, depressing Tuesday nights...Saturday afternoons spent in dismal places like Mansfield and Burslem...and for what?...to have this thrown in my face?

The mickey-taking has already started from other fans, but that doesn't bother me...after 49 years supporting the Stanley I've grown used to it. It didn't worry me when I was going to Peel Park in the mid-60s with a few dozen other lunatics, while anyone with any semblance of sanity had long gone. It didn't bother me when I was going on the Crown in the 70's, while anyone who wanted to watch "proper" football went elsewhere.

What does bother me is the thought that members of my own team might have been taking the mickey out of me and the rest of us...now that hurts...that really hurts. :( :( :(
got to agree with you wynonie h,it just makes you wonder about other results ???????????????????????????????????????????????

Stanleymad 08-04-2009 12:09
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Posted via Mobile Device. All great publicity for any prospective buyer or invester.

yonmon 08-04-2009 12:49
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris (Post 702028)
Spot on, mate. totally poleaxed by this...didn't sleep much last night...previous matches and incidents keep playing over in my head...missed open goals and penalties...matches that we were winning only to lose in the last few minutes...maybe all completely innocent, but who knows now?

Also keep thinking about all the waiting in the rain at bus stops...standing on freezing station platforms...rushing up to Accy on dark, depressing Tuesday nights...Saturday afternoons spent in dismal places like Mansfield and Burslem...and for what?...to have this thrown in my face?

The mickey-taking has already started from other fans, but that doesn't bother me...after 49 years supporting the Stanley I've grown used to it. It didn't worry me when I was going to Peel Park in the mid-60s with a few dozen other lunatics, while anyone with any semblance of sanity had long gone. It didn't bother me when I was going on the Crown in the 70's, while has alreanyone who wanted to watch "proper" football went elsewhere.

What does bother me is the thought that members of my own team might have been taking the mickey out of me and the rest of us...now that hurts...that really hurts. :( :( :(
I feel exactly the same Wyn !...and the one nagging thought which keeps on returning to the forefront of my mind is, WHAT would make anyone having any semblance of alliegiance and loyalty towards (1) Their employers, and (2) In this particular case 1000 loyal Supporters of the team which they represent, behave in a manner which has already brought shame and ridicule to it's door and alienated so many of it's supporters ?.

It has also occurred to me that how anyone who, in this age of hi-tec Criminal Detection, could imagine that such a scam, if indeed this is what has gone on, would be so naive and stupid enough as to think that such unlawful behavior would go undetected and unpunished !.

One thing is certain though, this being, that the more one thinks of the possible ramifications of the whole sordid affair, then the more the feeling of betrayal and humiliation becomes more keenly felt.

Knowing you, and your dedication to Accrington Stanley
and it's cause. I understand how you must feel, and can only align myself to all that you have said.

Respect !.



Wynonie Harris 08-04-2009 13:00
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
What can I say, Yonmon? The more I think about it, the more angry and upset I get. And the club are contributing to this by not suspending the two players in question until the matter is settled one way or t'other. A couple of days ago, I was happily checking train times to Cleethorpes...now I'm not so sure.

I'll bet it's even wiped the smile off Alfred E's face! :(

Oldgobbin 08-04-2009 13:32
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
One thought has kept coming into my mind today - - - When Stanley won the Conference and got back into the league, they dedicated that achieverment to Cav's brother, who, as we all know, had recently died in tragic circumstances. My feeling is that, in betraying the club, he would perpetrate a far more personal betrayal, which I hope he can live with.

slerpy 08-04-2009 14:01
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Sub Judice. please be careful.

Oldgobbin 08-04-2009 14:35
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Thanks Slerpy. That's why I said "He WOULD" - if it proved to be correct.

shakermaker 08-04-2009 14:37
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
It'll all come out in't wash.

madkev 08-04-2009 14:40
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris (Post 702114)
What can I say, Yonmon? The more I think about it, the more angry and upset I get. And the club are contributing to this by not suspending the two players in question until the matter is settled one way or t'other. A couple of days ago, I was happily checking train times to Cleethorpes...now I'm not so sure.



I'll bet it's even wiped the smile off Alfred E's face!





You must come to Cleethorpes.Willy's pub is waiting with your pints on the bar for you :D

Outback Ozzy 08-04-2009 14:40
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
I have kept quiet up until now, but the posts that state both players must be suspended until the outcome of the hearing and any subsequent appeals are spot on! The club (Eric) has said in the LET that if found guilty, they will both be sacked on the spot. As Alfred E, Yonmon et al have also stated, how let down we all feel and how this is dragging the clubs name through the mire. What makes it worse is that Cav has been charged with making bets against the club THIS season. Play youth teamers if necessary, but Cav and Rocky must NOT be allowed near the ground or the team until the outcome of the inquiry. I do not care about results now until the end of the season, even if that gets us relegated back to the BS Conference (although I doubt it). It hurts that players of this once proud club could even think about conniving to fix matches to line their own pockets (if proven).

Bagpuss 08-04-2009 14:58
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris (Post 702114)
The more I think about it, the more angry and upset I get. And the club are contributing to this by not suspending the two players in question until the matter is settled one way or t'other. :(
This is exactly my mood today, Whalley get it sorted man.:mad:

MCR I bet you won't be wearing that Williams shirt again.:(

MCR ADIM 08-04-2009 15:08
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagpuss (Post 702144)

MCR I bet you won't be wearing that Williams shirt again.:(
It's pinned on my bedroom wall because it's signed by all the squad aint it but am contemplateing whether or not to take it down :(

slerpy 08-04-2009 15:16
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldgobbin (Post 702134)
Thanks Slerpy. That's why I said "He WOULD" - if it proved to be correct.
I did not make that comment relating to you Oldgobbin I meant it in a general way. Unfotunate comments on here will only make the entire situation worse. Schtoum would be the wisest course of action.

maccawozzagod 08-04-2009 15:24
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
I agree, ban them. The absolute last thing this club needs right now is to flaunt the players in front of the fans. What would happen if Cav was running down the wing with the ball and the entire stand was shouting obscenities at him?

It wouldn't be fair on him, us, or the rest of the team.

cashman 08-04-2009 15:25
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by slerpy (Post 702152)
I did not make that comment relating to you Oldgobbin I meant it in a general way. Unfotunate comments on here will only make the entire situation worse. Schtoum would be the wisest course of action.
disagree slerpy, the situation could not be worse, do not believe in ignore things n they will go away, the wisest course of action would be fer the club to get off the pot n suspend pending the court outcome.

Wynonie Harris 08-04-2009 15:26
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by slerpy (Post 702152)
Schtoum would be the wisest course of action.
Suspended would also be the wisest course of action and perhaps if the club had acted more wisely in this respect, people would be prepared to wait for justice to take its course and there would be a lot less comments on here.

stanley convert 08-04-2009 15:37
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
What on earth were they thinking, Accrington stanley has enough problems without this we tend to be the laughing stock of the football league as it is and I as a stanley fan have had to quite often bite my lip and stand with my head held high and say yes i support accrington stanley THEY ARE MY TEAM,then we the loyal supporters and the club get kicked in the teeth by our own it,s an absolute disgrace and the people involved should be ashamed of themselves, walk away and never darken the crown ground again.

slerpy 08-04-2009 15:53
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris (Post 702158)
Suspended would also be the wisest course of action and perhaps if the club had acted more wisely in this respect, people would be prepared to wait for justice to take its course and there would be a lot less comments on here.
What the club do after (i pray) taking good legal advice is one thing, I do not want a message board fan landing up in the position that certain Owl (Sheff. Wed) fans faced a year or two back.

cashman 08-04-2009 16:05
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
the people i feel sorry for in this sorry affair are Coley n Bell, to me its a no-win situation fer em.

MCR ADIM 08-04-2009 16:35
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashman (Post 702166)
the people i feel sorry for in this sorry affair are Coley n Bell, to me its a no-win situation fer em.
So do i. Bring them players in under confidence that they would give 100% every game! Rocky has been at the club 10 years since he came here in 1999 so it would be his testimonial but i think that has gone out of the window :mad: The players only have themselves to blame if they get any abuse from the fans at the game on saturday/monday!

jaysay 08-04-2009 16:39
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
A lot of you are saying you don't know how they got caught, its easy they're footballers aren't they, their brains are in their feet not their heads, that is unless your Fat Frank at Chelski who appears to have two sets of brains both feet and head:D

slerpy 08-04-2009 16:44
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
General Franco - We are the masters of that which we do not say. But we are the slaves of what we do.

maccawozzagod 08-04-2009 16:47
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
the thread on The Football Forum includes:


Lose when you're betting, you only lose when you're betting, lose when you're betting

He's bent,
He's ****
He only bets five quid
Cavanagh, Cavanagh.


Whats that coming outta Ladbrokes,
Is it a Cavanagh,
Is it a Cavanagh.



no 1 predictable and rubbish

number 2 is quite funny

no 3 is crap

Tin Monkey 08-04-2009 17:29
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
I had to look up the meaning of 'hysteria' after reading this thread. :D

slerpy 08-04-2009 18:12
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin Monkey (Post 702235)
I had to look up the meaning of 'hysteria' after reading this thread. :D
That's funny I looked up hysterectomy !

cashman 08-04-2009 18:39
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by slerpy (Post 702248)
That's funny I looked up hysterectomy !
pointless slerpy until weve had one:D;)

Doug 08-04-2009 19:12
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
I don’t think that abuse should be the order of the day; I think they should be met with quiet distain…..every time they look at the ball, not a ****ing sound. The park should be like a grave yard when they play until Eric pulls his thumb out of his arse and suspends them both. I can’t see that the other lads or JC would want them playing in the same team.

Haggis316 08-04-2009 19:41
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Mr Mannix etc

Must be in the Times:

Footballers ‘bet on their team to lose’ | Football League - Times Online

fc:stanley 08-04-2009 21:10
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Was their a penalty during that game? And didnt Cav give it away ? :S

Bradshaw Boy 08-04-2009 21:12
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Edwards

mab 08-04-2009 21:58
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
:o:oCavanagh, 27, and Williams, 28, have been told they will still be involved in Saturday's League Two trip to Grimsby, when they are both expected to be in the starting line-up.:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::( :(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:( :(:(:(:(:(:(:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o :o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o

cashman 08-04-2009 22:01
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
then sadly i shall be absent on monday.:(

Willie Miller 08-04-2009 22:15
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
They cannot be sacked until found guilty..... the PFA will support the players with legal aid if they are punished before a hearing. This in turn if upheld could cost ASFC many many ££££££££'s

MCR ADIM 08-04-2009 22:17
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
The club can only suspend them on full pay or coley not pick them! It's up to what Coley wants to do aint it really if he wants to pick them than we have to respect his doing so! until 23rd april nothing can really happen.

mab 08-04-2009 22:21
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Eric goes on to say (quote) We can not afford to lose fans over this and I understand their anger.(unquote) Then please hear what we are saying and suspend them Eric

cashman 08-04-2009 22:23
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCR ADIM (Post 702353)
The club can only suspend them on full pay or coley not pick them! It's up to what Coley wants to do aint it really if he wants to pick them than we have to respect his doing so! until 23rd april nothing can really happen.
MCR is quite correct the club can only suspend them as would be the case in any employment, i can only withdraw my support as my own personal protest. n sorry MCR whilst i have sympathy fer coleys position, no way can i respect his choice if he uses em.:(

MCR ADIM 08-04-2009 22:29
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Yeh than what will happen is what Wille Miller says! PFA get involed! Club end up paying alot of money out to them in unfair dismissal if found not guilty! Now i know which route i would rather take until the 23rd april! who else do we have though! Murphy, King, Leam all still out injured! Meaning Murdock would come in and Jay bell than who do we have on bench! Youth team?

Willie Miller 08-04-2009 22:32
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashman (Post 702358)
i can only withdraw my support as my own personal protest. .:(
And if thats how you feel then so you should......:)

For me, I care not about the players.... any of them after this episode.:mad:

I care about ASFC, our club, our town & our history. Our club needs its supporters & I will be in Grimsby supporting with all my heart (& lungs)

On Monday, Stanley Ultras will relay the opinion of our supporters to our current playing staff in as prominent a way as we can. Then we will back our club to victory, for Eric, Coley & its SUPPPORTERS.......... the only people we can trust in red & white

MCR ADIM 08-04-2009 22:35
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie Miller (Post 702361)
And if thats how you feel then so you should......:)

For me, I care not about the players.... any of them after this episode.:mad:

I care about ASFC, our club, our town & our history. Our club needs its supporters & I will be in Grimsby supporting with all my heart (& lungs)

On Monday, Stanley Ultras will relay the opinion of our supporters to our current playing staff in as prominent a way as we can. Then we will back our club to victory, for Eric, Coley & its SUPPPORTERS.......... the only people we can trust in red & white
I'll drink to that!:D:D

cashman 08-04-2009 22:37
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
MCR if it takes playing the kids, then so be it as far as i'm concerned,

maccawozzagod 08-04-2009 22:40
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Telegraph has Cav still as captain.

We know we can't legally punish them yet but the club can refuse to put them in the squad without 'suspending' them.

Neither player will be able to give their all with the crowd against them, and I dont particularly want them to.

MCR ADIM 08-04-2009 22:41
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
I can not dis-agree with you on this matter as no-one is wrong on how they feel about this situation! We all feel strongly for the club and shall show how we feel in different ways! E.g The silent protest the ultras had! If you feel you want to stay away on Monday than fair play! The club/Players will know how the fans feel on Monday

Willie Miller 08-04-2009 22:42
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris (Post 702114)
What can I say, Yonmon? The more I think about it, the more angry and upset I get.
I am the same, thought of nothing more @ work today as I grafted to enable me to follow ASFC into Humberside on Saturday......

I remember 2 season s ago when Rocky got to 300 appearances. I stayed up till daft o clock sewing the Craney flag (who had left) into a Rocky 4 flag to show him how much we appreciated his efforts.....

IMG_6048.jpg :: Accy v Grimsby
LC2L8724.jpg :: Accy v Stockport

F@@ckin fool I am eh?

maccawozzagod 08-04-2009 22:45
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
perhaps you could sew 'prison' under the 4 on friday night :D

mab 08-04-2009 22:47
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
I wonder what the rest of the team think of cav n rocky now that they have been charged by the fa,will they wont to play in the same team as these two knowing what they've been charged with,can they trust them would they be willing to pass the ball to them.its got to effect the team as a whole..

MCR ADIM 08-04-2009 22:55
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
What the dressing room morale going to be like Saturday/Monday! What if they score? Like you say Mab could the rest of the team trust them to defend well! Will Kenny have faith in his back four if they are two of the players! Monday is going to be weird if they are in the side! suppose it will give the youth team players a few games to get signed on full time.

cashman 08-04-2009 22:57
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie Miller (Post 702366)
I am the same, thought of nothing more @ work today as I grafted to enable me to follow ASFC into Humberside on Saturday......

I remember 2 season s ago when Rocky got to 300 appearances. I stayed up till daft o clock sewing the Craney flag (who had left) into a Rocky 4 flag to show him how much we appreciated his efforts.....

IMG_6048.jpg :: Accy v Grimsby
LC2L8724.jpg :: Accy v Stockport

F@@ckin fool I am eh?
no it aint being a fool, its trusting and having belief in a player, theres not a lot wrong wi that. theres no easy answer to this mess, each to his own is all i can add.;)

mab 08-04-2009 22:58
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie Miller (Post 702366)
I am the same, thought of nothing more @ work today as I grafted to enable me to follow ASFC into Humberside on Saturday......

I remember 2 season s ago when Rocky got to 300 appearances. I stayed up till daft o clock sewing the Craney flag (who had left) into a Rocky 4 flag to show him how much we appreciated his efforts.....

IMG_6048.jpg :: Accy v Grimsby
LC2L8724.jpg :: Accy v Stockport

F@@ckin fool I am eh?
Willie Miller your no fool mate your a die hard ultra stanley fan and should be proud of it,your what most of us are down hearted and down in the dump,your sertenley no fool:)

Willie Miller 08-04-2009 23:03
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mab (Post 702375)
Willie Miller your no fool mate your a die hard ultra stanley fan and should be proud of it,your what most of us are down hearted and down in the dump,your sertenley no fool:)
Nope foolish, its the last player flag I ever ever ever make:mad:

Club banners & flags thats it......

MCR ADIM 08-04-2009 23:08
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Cav's column in the Observer will be a good read this week! Will give him a chance to have his say on the matter if he has wrote anythign about it or even wrote a column this week

cashman 08-04-2009 23:10
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie Miller (Post 702377)
Nope foolish, its the last player flag I ever ever ever make:mad:

Club banners & flags thats it......
that choice is yours willie, ya were not foolish in my book, n i'm the first to gob off if i think someone is, Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but we aint got it. everyones p1ssed off, but don't beat yerself up oer it.;)

MCR ADIM 08-04-2009 23:14
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Everyone has a right to be p1ssed of! What where they thinking or lack of it! Did they never think they might get found out betting ££££ on the game for us to lose! Don't beat yourself up mate at the time you knew no different like the rest of us! you thought he was a good/loyal servent to the club like everyone else! They deserve everything that will happent to them if they are found guilty! If not than i think their will still be alittle bad air about them players same with Mullin when he returns.

Revived Red 08-04-2009 23:15
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCR ADIM (Post 702359)
Yeh than what will happen is what Wille Miller says! PFA get involed! Club end up paying alot of money out to them in unfair dismissal if found not guilty!
As far as I know, no-one has ever suggested dismissing them before the outcome of the FA enquiry has been announced. What many of us want is for the pair to be suspended on full pay pending the outcome of the enquiry. As has been said over and over again, this is not a presumption of guilt - it is a professional way of acting in circumstances where allegations have been made.

Can we trust the club to act professionally?

MCR ADIM 08-04-2009 23:18
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Matthew (Post 701633)
And Mannix.

Fire them both. Conference standard players anyway.
One of the first post's

Mr Matthew 08-04-2009 23:31
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
I didn't mean immediately MCR.

The club really needs to grow a pair. This will agitate many and could go as far as totally underming all marketing methods used recently to increase crowds.

Many will be disgusted if the forementioned play.

I'd rather play with 9 men to be honest.

Pay them but don't let them play, simple, it's a matter of principle.

V.Tempted to cancel my booking for the hospitality lounge V Chesterfield.

Am Stanley through and through, but with this club money talks.

£350 could be spent on something else.

You can tell I'm not happy I'm babbling:mad::mad::mad:

MCR ADIM 08-04-2009 23:49
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Ok sorry Mr Matthew just that you said what you did just thought you ment right now! I agree with everyone on this subject! Still keep the hospitality mate! Don't let them spoil your stag party is it?

fc:stanley 08-04-2009 23:57
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccawozzagod (Post 702368)
perhaps you could sew 'prison' under the 4 on friday night :D
Or Barrow :D

Rocky
4
No Loyalty

harwood red 09-04-2009 00:24
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Up to now I haven't had a clue what to put really... so I will just put

Gutted, disappointed, let down

but still stanley till I die.

And I would like to say to each and every one of you...thank god for fan loyalty and the passion you all bring to the FES

cashman 09-04-2009 00:27
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
it will all be done n dusted before Chesterfield game Mr Mathew, if it is yer stag do, go fer it, n congrats. its Que Sera stanley will continue after this crap is done n dusted.;)

Outback Ozzy 09-04-2009 03:30
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCR ADIM (Post 702359)
Yeh than what will happen is what Wille Miller says! PFA get involed! Club end up paying alot of money out to them in unfair dismissal if found not guilty! Now i know which route i would rather take until the 23rd april! who else do we have though! Murphy, King, Leam all still out injured! Meaning Murdock would come in and Jay bell than who do we have on bench! Youth team?
We did at Bradford and came away with a respectable 1-1 draw, so why not pu the youth on the bench :rolleyes:

Redraine 09-04-2009 06:47
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Matthew (Post 702388)
I didn't mean immediately MCR.

The club really needs to grow a pair. This will agitate many and could go as far as totally underming all marketing methods used recently to increase crowds.

Many will be disgusted if the forementioned play.

I'd rather play with 9 men to be honest.

Pay them but don't let them play, simple, it's a matter of principle.
Well said that man. Why can't the club see this and do the decent thing by suspending the pair of them? I didn't really agree with the Ultra's protest over the Mullin affair, although I fully respect their right to make their feelings known. If these two are selected I would hope they will do something similar and would certainly join them in squatting for the whole game on Monday. I don't care if I don't see any of the match - I just dont want to see these two in a Stanley shirt until the case is heard, and I'm not so sure I could back them even if the case is not proven.

dabeast 09-04-2009 07:33
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Posted via Mobile Device
To play them with the knowledge of the charges brought would be so stupid! Suspension is the only realistic option. Surely the club can see that. I will reserve my comments until the event has passed but whatever anyone thinks, they should not play. I can't imagine that the players would want to start either - whether innocent or guilty they should be of the lowest profile until the mess is sorted.
On another point i didn't agree with the last protest but this is different

mab 09-04-2009 07:57
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Ok alturnatives!! who do we have well we could put Murdock and Bell back in the starting line up with Mullin,McConville,Grant,Hibbert,Hey,Smith on the bench Richarson if fit after his opp,so we do have cover for the game and in my book we've no need to play Cav n Rocky,what would JC do if the two were injured.

yonmon 09-04-2009 08:17
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccawozzagod (Post 702364)

Neither player will be able to give their all with the crowd against them, and I dont particularly want them to.
Easter Monday 13:45 hrs. Scenario 1.:-

The Left Wing-Back of Chester City makes a run in front of the Press Box..Cav goes in to tackle him but inadvertently slips on an unseen patch of mud. His opponent skips round him, runs into 'the Box', calmly rounds Kenny Arthur and slips the ball into the empty net!.

Scenario.2. :- (Three minutes left to play!)

On the other wing a Chester Forward craftily gives Robert Williams the slip, and as he goes into the box
Robbie quite innocently clips his heels...he immediately goes to ground (as they do!)..the referee awards a penalty, it is converted and Chester City go on to win the match 1-0 !.

Scenario 3. I and the ever-loyal andfaithful 999 are sitting in the Stand, or standing on the Clayton End...
The Chester City Fans are baying like hungry wolves..everyone, Media included, bearing witness to these unfortunate footballing 'accidents', and wondering how to respond to them !.

I for one will be there Cashy !, but as yet I find it diifficult to predict how I will feel as I enter the FES, let alone my reaction, and that of other Fans were the aforementioned Scenarios allowed to occur by the inclusion of the allegedly 'bent' members of the first team squad.
It is still my opinion that the two players in question should be protected from further suspicion, if not more charges, by removing them from any situation whatsoever which could cause them further villification and possible punishment.

This, in my humble opinion would be a FAIR method of dealing with this convoluted and complicated status quo at the FES..one which we on this forum can only speculate about !...yet speculate we must!!.







K-P 09-04-2009 08:41
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
OK I am guesing that your all so wound up that your not going to appreciate the following so I will add my dissclaimer first... If they did do what they are accused of then I agree with everything said.. I have very strong views on this for all the same reasons most of you have.

BUT some of you are putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5

The players have NOT and I repeat NOT been accused of match fixing.. Nowhere has anyone said they have tried to fix a match and nowhere is the FA the Club or anyone else other than Internet users (yes not just accyweb) suggesting they have done anything to change the outcome of a match

The players are accused of betting against the team they play for... something as I say I have equally strong views about and am still disgusted now at the thought... But to accuse them of match fixing could lead you and/or this messageboard open to ...well you know.

Betting against your team is a mortal sin for a footballer as far as i am concerned ... But it isn't match fixing as most seem to assume.

Sorry for saying it.. But I believe it had to be said :)

Revived Red 09-04-2009 08:54
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-P (Post 702456)
OK I am guesing that your all so wound up that your not going to appreciate the following so I will add my dissclaimer first... If they did do what they are accused of then I agree with everything said.. I have very strong views on this for all the same reasons most of you have.

BUT some of you are putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5

The players have NOT and I repeat NOT been accused of match fixing.. Nowhere has anyone said they have tried to fix a match and nowhere is the FA the Club or anyone else other than Internet users (yes not just accyweb) suggesting they have done anything to change the outcome of a match

The players are accused of betting against the team they play for... something as I say I have equally strong views about and am still disgusted now at the thought... But to accuse them of match fixing could lead you and/or this messageboard open to ...well you know.

Betting against your team is a mortal sin for a footballer as far as i am concerned ... But it isn't match fixing as most seem to assume.

Sorry for saying it.. But I believe it had to be said :)
A timely reminder, K-P. They are accused of breaching the FA rules on betting as noted in one of the early posts in this thread.

We probably all realise that it is but a short step to making sure that the bet is successful, and that would then be match-fixing. But that is not the charge.

Nevertheless, the accusation of seriously transgressing FA rules should surely demand suspension of those involved until a verdict is reached. The fact that the accusation involves betting on one's own team to lose just compounds the offence.

shakermaker 09-04-2009 08:59
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Personally I don't feel any animosity or disappointment in this situation; more confusion than anything.
Perhaps it's due to fictitious versions of the two players that I've presumed to be true; as with near ten years' service you expect the players to be straight forward, loyal and honest. If Peter Cavanagh and Robbie Williams were to take the field on Saturday then I'd probably support them just as I would any other player in a Stanley shirt.
I can completely understand why people are up in arms and wishing for the players to be suspended, but it hasn't quite sunk in here. All I know is that I don't feel like burning any effigies just yet. The reason for that probably being what K-P correctly writes; that no formal charges of match fixing have been made. Their charges are still very serious, but I would feel much more like I'd been kicked in the swingers if the actual charges were match fixing. I don't think the players (Cav/Rocky) are either guilty or capable of anything like that.

Revived Red 09-04-2009 09:11
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shakermaker (Post 702469)
Personally I don't feel any animosity or disappointment in this situation; more confusion than anything.
Perhaps it's due to fictitious versions of the two players that I've presumed to be true; as with near ten years' service you expect the players to be straight forward, loyal and honest. If Peter Cavanagh and Robbie Williams were to take the field on Saturday then I'd probably support them just as I would any other player in a Stanley shirt.
I can completely understand why people are up in arms and wishing for the players to be suspended, but it hasn't quite sunk in here. All I know is that I don't feel like burning any effigies just yet. The reason for that probably being what K-P correctly writes; that no formal charges of match fixing have been made. Their charges are still very serious, but I would feel much more like I'd been kicked in the swingers if the actual charges were match fixing. I don't think the players (Cav/Rocky) are either guilty or capable of anything like that.
OK, well let's put it another way. You bet on your team to lose 0 - 2. It's near the end of the match and you find yourself in front of goal with the goal at your mercy. You are almost bound to score, but if you do, you and your fellow punters will lose the bet. What do you do?

K-P 09-04-2009 09:13
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revived Red (Post 702474)
OK, well let's put it another way. You bet on your team to lose 0 - 2. It's near the end of the match and you find yourself in front of goal with the goal at your mercy. You are almost bound to score, but if you do, you and your fellow punters will lose the bet. What do you do?
Hmmm lets see.... 5 quid bet.... v goal scoring bonus.. if I was cav I would go for goal :)

shakermaker 09-04-2009 09:19
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revived Red (Post 702474)
OK, well let's put it another way. You bet on your team to lose 0 - 2. It's near the end of the match and you find yourself in front of goal with the goal at your mercy. You are almost bound to score, but if you do, you and your fellow punters will lose the bet. What do you do?
I've no doubt that in that situation the goal and the club would mean more to Cav/Rocky than the bet. Sadly I have to admit that this only works on a presumed opinion of their nature. We've only been watching them play football for the best part of a decade, we don't know them.

Revived Red 09-04-2009 09:31
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shakermaker (Post 702477)
I've no doubt that in that situation the goal and the club would mean more to Cav/Rocky than the bet. Sadly I have to admit that this only works on a presumed opinion of their nature. We've only been watching them play football for the best part of a decade, we don't know them.
Oh, dear. Maybe my comment was too subtle. I think you will find that the match report describes what one of the accused did in that circumstance.

shakermaker 09-04-2009 09:49
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revived Red (Post 702483)
Oh, dear. Maybe my comment was too subtle. I think you will find that the match report describes what one of the accused did in that circumstance.
Really? I was at the game and I don't remember that. Which report?

yonmon 09-04-2009 10:08
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shakermaker (Post 702477)
I've no doubt that in that situation the goal and the club would mean more to Cav/Rocky than the bet. Sadly I have to admit that this only works on a presumed opinion of their nature. We've only been watching them play football for the best part of a decade, we don't know them.
I agree with you when you submit that 'we don't know them', and it is a dangerous practice to work on a presumed opinion of anyone's nature.
But if we are placing some question on the alleged character and behaviour of our two 'Senior' players,
then I would refer you to an earlier posting of mine where I almost begged someone to explain to me just what on earth could possibly motivate two respected members of Accrington Stanley's First Team squad to place the credibility of The Club, their Employers, and 'The Faithful 1000' in the situation of emergency existing NOW, ..whilst at the same time placing their entire careers in the game at such risk by indulging in the alleged fraudulent behaviour.

If necessity or character flaws have precipitated these alleged actions and they are found to be accurate, then they must indeed face whatever consequences will surely follow.

If the Club have any regard for the two concerned, which, as they say, they must, being 'innocent until proved guilty', then I repeat, it is because of this sense of 'we don't know them' that some protection of their 'character' and their professional standing should be extended to them !, if they cannot be suspended, then by mutual exclusion from any Club activities whatsoever until the whole sorry mess is brought to a resolution.

I won't bang this particular Drum again...Promise!!!.

JEFF 09-04-2009 10:15
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
In today's Lancashire Telegraph Jimmy Bell appears to be defending Cav by saying he only had a £5 accumulator and shouldn't be crucified - I thought Cav had also been charged with betting on a Stanley game this season and betting on other league two games. Bell also appears to be blaming the FA for making this public. I don't agree with having a protest on Monday - we NEED to win the game, but I do agree that Cav and Rocky shouldn't play even if they haven't been found guilty. Any defensive slip by either of them will result in the fans saying that they must have had a bet on the game. Drop them until the FA hearing but please don't play Jay Bell. For once nearly everybody on this forum is in agreement, it just goes to prove that we all have the interests of Stanley at heart.

Tin Monkey 09-04-2009 10:31
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shakermaker (Post 702492)
Really? I was at the game and I don't remember that. Which report?
McGiven missed an absolute sitter against Bury during that match, but I put it down to him being crap, rather than being involved in any betting scandal.

Mind you, I remember Mullin missing a free header from 6 yards out, so maybe we should be looking at him too? :rolleyes:

In fact, I say let's burn the lot of 'em!!! This 'StanleyGate' saga is going to run and run.

Whalley Red 09-04-2009 10:32
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-P (Post 702456)
OK I am guesing that your all so wound up that your not going to appreciate the following so I will add my dissclaimer first... If they did do what they are accused of then I agree with everything said.. I have very strong views on this for all the same reasons most of you have.

BUT some of you are putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5

The players have NOT and I repeat NOT been accused of match fixing.. Nowhere has anyone said they have tried to fix a match and nowhere is the FA the Club or anyone else other than Internet users (yes not just accyweb) suggesting they have done anything to change the outcome of a match

The players are accused of betting against the team they play for... something as I say I have equally strong views about and am still disgusted now at the thought... But to accuse them of match fixing could lead you and/or this messageboard open to ...well you know.

Betting against your team is a mortal sin for a footballer as far as i am concerned ... But it isn't match fixing as most seem to assume.

Sorry for saying it.. But I believe it had to be said :)

The problem with a charge of match-fixing is that it is extremely difficult to prove. Bruce Grobbelaar was caught on video discussing match-fixing, but the jury in two different trials was still unable to reach a verdict. Even though he was cleared, the House of Lords slashed his subsequent libel award to £1 and he was ordered to pay The Sun's legal costs of £500,000.

So, just because the players have only been accused of betting on the outcome of matches in which they are involved, that doesn't make it wrong for us to suspect that match-fixing was really at play.

shakermaker 09-04-2009 10:40
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin Monkey (Post 702516)
McGiven missed an absolute sitter against Bury during that match, but I put it down to him being crap, rather than being involved in any betting scandal.
Ahh, see I do remember that. Thanks.
Surely Leighton (if he had the conscious choice rather than relying on his ability) would've chosen to score and subsequently earn a contract with a Football League side for another year, rather than win his bet.
If indeed that's what Revived Red is motioning his legally subtle conspiracy stick at. :)

Doug 09-04-2009 10:41
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Forget Cav’s fiver for now, the total bet of the other players comes to a total of £10,500. If you’re in a scoring position and you and you buddies stand to lose £10,500 on a single shot is any one of them going to pull the trigger?

I pray that not one of them is found guilty of any inappropriate behaviour let alone match fixing, but I say again they should be suspended until such time as this matter is resolved.

In respect of match fixing, I would again pray that they would do no such thing and hope that this suggestion never bears fruit; but… why would you and your mates place bets amounting to £10,500 against your own team and then go on to ensure you win….

Wynonie Harris 09-04-2009 10:43
Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEFF (Post 702505)
For once nearly everybody on this forum is in agreement, it just goes to prove that we all have the interests of Stanley at heart.
That's the one good thing that's come out of this whole sorry business for me. We're all passionate about the club we love, but because we all have different temperaments and attitudes, disagreements can sometimes get a little intense on here. Just goes to show that when there's a real crisis, we all stick together! :)


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