Accrington's new bus station "to be"

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Gayle

Well, people don't only shop in the market do they? Some walk to through the Arndale as well as shopping in the market. I'm just saying (playing devil's advocate), I can imagine a scenario when people get off the bus at the market and then walk through the Arndale or along Blackburn Road towards the bus station. I know that would involve carrying shopping but then again it involves carrying shopping if you shop in the Arndale then walk to the bus station now.

I wonder what calculations/questionaires/consultations they've done on that sort of thing?

I have to be honest and say that I'm neither for or against the move at the moment. Partly because I rarely use the bus (I do sometimes but it's the exception rather than the rule) and partly because I don't think I've got enough information to decide on.

I didn't like it when they cut it in half as I thought that made it more dangerous so I can see the need to making a bigger bus station. I like the idea of a car park near the market as well as that could benefit some people. But, I can also see how the market users are more often than not the ones who need the access to a bus to be close by.

I was agreeing with what you were saying. That the site of a bus station could be anywhere in theory.

There's no bus station in London, the place with the U.K.'s heaviest bus usage. All the depots are spread out in suburbia.

I was just pointing out that it's not just a matter of people alighting from buses, it's the fact there'll be queues of people waiting to depart from the town centre too.

Therefore why move it from it's present site?

Need more room?

Plenty of room where the empty market stalls now stand.

Personally I can see no positives in relocating the bus station to a totally different site...yet again.

I can see negatives.

Mainly cost, and the fact that struggling, forgotten parts of the town, such as the areas accessed via the Arcade, will become even more isolated if the bus station's moved further away from the town centre.

To be honest the whole idea sounds like some whiny little boys wanting to trade in their old toy cars and garage for a brand new shiny one, and beggar the cost, because they aren't paying.

[lancsdave]

Originally Posted by Gayle

I can see the need to making a bigger bus station.

Not sure why ? First of all the bus station only gets busy when several buses try to get on one stand. If they actually served the same destinations at different times instead of the smae time they wouldn't fo this.

Buses are also pricing themselves out of the market, I reckon they will be less of them rather than more. Transdev in particular will suffer at some point, and the bosses of that company won't think twice about reducing bus numbers.

[g jones]

On the drawing board is a large bus stop at the current site somewhere to get on and off. Clearly for Hyndburn West residents (and further) this won't help.

I am sure Peel Street would have remained the bus station had the pavilions not taken up the space back 2002. Since then there is overcrowding on stops, breaking of rules on laying over and bus sprawl up Infant Street and Bridge Street.

When everyone including bus users have signed up to the new site, I cannot see it being rolled back. I take on board the point that bus users who use the market hall will be inconvenienced by this and there will be quite a few. Car parking does favour the young and more affluent (sounds odd?) but the car parking potential is significant and opens up traffic/trade to the south of the TC.

I also think there are a lot of good suggestions to increase trade. New people, new ideas and certainly a new spirit of working together for the best.

Issues at hand, people hanging around, shoppers with little money (read £ shops), nice buildings - shame about the rest of the look, Blackburn Rd around Davies's, awful redesign of Broadway, undesirable premises such as amusement arcades, isolation of Warner St and Abbey Street, old arcade, Church Street, night scene, lack of recognised brand shops, 2-16 Broadway, bus station onto Blackburn Rd, bus stop at Peel Street as mentioned, opening town hall to two way traffic, Cannon Street and more.

If only we hadn't built over the Blackburn bus lane!

[g jones]

My own view is that ample car parking adjacent to the Market Hall might be it's making but it's a big decision because what happens if they don't come. We could look at car parking restrictions tied into patronage but I do not know the best and easiest way that could be done.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by g jones

My own view is that ample car parking adjacent to the Market Hall might be it's making but it's a big decision because what happens if they don't come. We could look at car parking restrictions tied into patronage but I do not know the best and easiest way that could be done.

More disabled parking near to the market would be a god send Graham

[esteemedjuju]

Why can't broadway be used for the market stalls its wasted space anyway this would then make more room for the bus station

[Margaret Pilkington]

Disabled parking doesn't help if you do not have a car.
If you are reliant on public transport, and let's face it a lot of the elderly are....they the market hall may lose their custom. It is Ok walking from Crawshaw Street with an empty bag, but try the same walk with some meat, a bag of spuds and a loaf of bread.
As for the suggestion of their being bus stops adjacent to the market.......well doesn't that just defeat the object of moving the bus station to Crawshaw St.

I still think that my formula is best....most sensible, and certainly the most user friendly...but then what do I know???????

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by esteemedjuju

Why can't broadway be used for the market stalls its wasted space anyway this would then make more room for the bus station

That was my suggestion ages ago.

[Boeing Guy]

Here's a radical idea.
1 move the pavilions on to Broadway out side the town hall, this solves the traffic problem there.
2 restore to bus station to it's former glory.

Oh hang on, that's too much like comon sense

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Boeing Guy

Here's a radical idea.
1 move the pavilions on to Broadway out side the town hall, this solves the traffic problem there.
2 restore to bus station to it's former glory.

Oh hang on, that's too much like comon sense

Yes, much too much like common sense.

It must be common, since quite a few of us have thought of it.

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by g jones

Issues at hand, people hanging around, shoppers with little money (read £ shops), nice buildings - shame about the rest of the look, Blackburn Rd around Davies's, awful redesign of Broadway, undesirable premises such as amusement arcades, isolation of Warner St and Abbey Street, old arcade, Church Street, night scene, lack of recognised brand shops, 2-16 Broadway, bus station onto Blackburn Rd, bus stop at Peel Street as mentioned, opening town hall to two way traffic, Cannon Street and more.

Add to that - closing the tourist information on Saturdays, the awful blue panels on the council building (oh how I'd love to put some artwork on them), the grotty Arndale carpark, lack of independent stores (I think it needs to be a mix of brand and niche stores) and the fact that the traffic system is all about getting people out of the town and not in it.

One thing I would say about the traffic though is that it's a darn sight better than Blackburn's current fiasco!

[Less]

Originally Posted by jaysay

More disabled parking near to the market would be a god send Graham

Yes, it would also solve the problem about the missing benches, there would be no need for them if disabled car users left their vehicles unlocked so that anyone needing to rest near the Market could just pop into a comfy seat for a few minutes.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Less

Yes, it would also solve the problem about the missing benches, there would be no need for them if disabled car users left their vehicles unlocked so that anyone needing to rest near the Market could just pop into a comfy seat for a few minutes.

Why didn't I think of that

[g jones]

The current policy was arrived at through compromise and I am still not satisfied with the way the debate occurred. However bus users (who attended), bus companies, LCC, highways, HBC, transport specialists have all agreed on Crawshaw Street so how an agreement can be rolled back or where it will take us other than a non-agreement.

For thread catch up, I lament the white elephant Wilkinsons which has caused this problem (and which I was stridently against) and my choice was not Crawshaw Street. I accept the criticisms being made here, I made them!

I had little support at the the time so I have to accept the will of the majority if progress is to be made.

The issue is twofold and I know this is repetitive and harsh but a democratic Council is everything, forget Party politics. We did not have that at the time and that harsh lesson must spread outwards.

Secondly, when forums are set up to make progress in an open way, people must attend, or show interest, or follow up and give feedback. Responding to banner newspaper headlines becomes an 'after the Lords Mayor Show'.

There seems to be misconceptions about the project which emanate form a poor debate with too much disinformation. This is not a Council project.

HBC are not in a realistic position to say "Stop" and "Progress elsewhere". It is not their scheme, they are only consultee's and the planning authority (bound by laws not choices). County own the scheme with BwD, own the land, own the agenda. Geoff Driver CC Leader has refused to come to Hyndburn Council to discuss the matter.

If roll back were to occur how is LCC being influenced? How are bus users whom are for it being influenced? How are the Government going to be influenced? How are bus companies being swayed? BwD, who has wrote to them complaining as a lead organisation? who has the knowledge to sway specialists in bus transport who favour Crawshaw Street as a 'obvious choice'?

If we want to make Hyndburn better, especially where there are a multitude of interested parties, people must rise to the occasion.

Which comes back to democracy. Why the new Council has set up new forums, one on Transport that meet frequently and are open discussions. We (The Labour Party) have to help people express their view.

[Margaret Pilkington]

I hear what you are saying but is difficult for some transport users to attend meetings.......were these consultation meetings ever publicised? I don't remember seeing any publicity about them.......the people who use public transport are usually the elderly and young mums with toddlers and prams.....they are the ones who should have been asked......and these people are the ones who would find it hard to get to meetings.(lots of older people do not venture out of their houses in the evening - I know this from speaking to people my own age and older. Young mums may not attend because of their childcare responsibilities. And then there is always the apathy that creeps in, because people fail to see how it will affect them........maybe not right now, but in the future when they get older and less able to get about)

There should've been a stall on the market with the proposals laid out, and perhaps the proposals in writing for people to take away and respond to by questionaire.

I can't see that it is too late until the bus station is actually built and found to be an impractical white elephant.