The Gobbin Lamp

[Bob Dobson]

I have always had the view that the Black Dog is at the top of Union Road, and so anything on that side of the lamp would be 'above', whereas on the railway station side it would be 'below'. The house numbers run 'up' from the Church boundary on Union Rd. That settles it. -nowt to do wi' bein' gawmless.

[Tealeaf]

Originally Posted by Bob Dobson

I have always had the view that the Black Dog is at the top of Union Road, and so anything on that side of the lamp would be 'above', whereas on the railway station side it would be 'below'. The house numbers run 'up' from the Church boundary on Union Rd. That settles it. -nowt to do wi' bein' gawmless.

Sorry, Bob - but I'm not convinced. Union Road starts from the Church boundary with Market St at which point it runs in a southerly direction, gradually turning west until at Union Rd it runs roughly east-west until at Stanhill the same road runs in a North-West direction (towards Blackburn). I don't know therefore, what is above and what is below.

The Black Dog is some distance away from the lamp and is far closer to the old, alternative route between Ossy/Stanhill and Church (parts of that route still being a public footpath) so if you're now suggesting that the original site of the lamp was by the Dog then that complicates things even further.

[Bob Dobson]

I am saying that the early inhabitants chose to call the Church side of the lamp 'below' and the Stanhill side 'above'. I can see logic in this despite what the compass tells.
I am not suggesting that there was an early/original lamp at the Black Dog. I used that pub so that readers could picture what I was describing. I do think, without checking, that the Black Dog is at a higher point above sea level than the railway station and if so, folk would need to walk up to the Dog and down to the railway from the library.

[Wynonie Harris]

Having mixed with many Gobbiners during numerous visits to the Stop & Rest with my old fella back in the day, my understanding of the situation is this - "above" the lamp means the area from the library to Stanhill which is Gobbinland. "Below" the lamp is the area from the library to Church which isn't.

[garinda]

Albert Wilkinson/Mike Booth place the site of the lamp near where the library is now, and suggest a reason as to why those who lived above were Gobbiners. Though they offer no photographic evidence.

Why we're so very proud to be Gobbins! (From The Bolton News)

People still refer to the top and bottom of Ossy.

That's because of the mainly dowhill gradient, from Moor End down to Church.

Local myth is that the meandering route of the main road was laid down after following the path of a runaway pig.

[garinda]

Probably, because Union Road does have many twists and turns, because the lamps near where the library is now, are on a relatively straight stretch, visible from the bottom of Tinker Brew, they would be a major focal point, and an easy place for locals to place a mythical boundary.

Some great photographs of the gas lamps, sited where the library garden now ends.

http://lanternimages.lancashire.gov....67&r=2&t=4&x=1

http://lanternimages.lancashire.gov....36&r=2&t=4&x=1

Lancashire Lantern

[Tealeaf]

It seems to me that those lamps are no more than an ornate decoration to the library, built with Mr Carnegie's money, in 1913 (if I recall correctly). Yet the inference is that the term 'Gobbiner' is far older than that (nineteenth, possibly eighteenth century) so I cannot see where the lamp connection is coming from, unless, of course, at some point in time there was another lamp which have served as a boundary marker or for some other use.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Tealeaf

It seems to me that those lamps are no more than an ornate decoration to the library, built with Mr Carnegie's money, in 1913 (if I recall correctly). Yet the inference is that the term 'Gobbiner' is far older than that (nineteenth, possibly eighteenth century) so I cannot see where the lamp connection is coming from, unless, of course, at some point in time there was another lamp which have served as a boundary marker or for some other use.

It was actually 1915, that the library was opened.

I was always told by the people who remembered what was there before the Carnegie library, that this is where the 'owd lamp' was situated. Though as Bob said earlier, there's no photographic evidence turned up...yet.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Tealeaf

It seems to me that those lamps are no more than an ornate decoration to the library, built with Mr Carnegie's money, in 1913 (if I recall correctly). Yet the inference is that the term 'Gobbiner' is far older than that (nineteenth, possibly eighteenth century) so I cannot see where the lamp connection is coming from, unless, of course, at some point in time there was another lamp which have served as a boundary marker or for some other use.

I agree the term Gobbiner predates the library lamps, and perhaps even any street lamp, which were used as a mythical marker to divide the town.

It's highly doubtful the term goes back to the eighteenth century. As most of the town wasn't built then. The mines weren't opened until the 1840s, and the town before then was centred around the Straits, before the rapid expansion of new houses that were built from the 1860's onwards for the people who came to work in jobs associated with the textile mills.

[Bob Dobson]

It is likely that the first lamp would be gas-fired,and when it was installed it would be viewed as a major step forward by the townsfolk.I haven't time to look at David Hogg's books on Ossie, but the date of the coming of town gas may well be in there.

A run-away pig? Never heard this but like it. However,. more likely to be a rabbit, as Union Rd was called Warren Lane before the name Union was adopted, probably to celebrate the joining with other townships in the Blackburn Poor-Law Union.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

Having mixed with many Gobbiners during numerous visits to the Stop & Rest with my old fella back in the day, my understanding of the situation is this - "above" the lamp means the area from the library to Stanhill which is Gobbinland. "Below" the lamp is the area from the library to Church which isn't.

Thing that is a very good description of a Gobbin Wyn, maybe you could explain in a little plainer English, which could, maybe, enable Tealeaf to grasp it, but I won't be holding my breath

[Tealeaf]

Originally Posted by garinda

I agree the term Gobbiner predates the library lamps, and perhaps even any street lamp, which were used as a mythical marker to divide the town.

The problem is the term 'Gobbin' - meaning someone thick - is a generic (Lancastrian) dialect word and as as such is not just applicable to the dwellers of Ossy (however much as an apt description). I don't know how far back it goes - nor it's scource. It may be an invention of the early industrial revolution (which in North East Lancashire's case is 18C, not 19C) or it may go back well further than that - maybe early English, maybe Scandavian in origin.

Therefore we can't stick a time line in there and say 'Lamp - 1915 - Gobbiner ' or even 'Lamp - 1850 - Gobbiner'.

[jaysay]

Well I'm not really all that bothered where the demarcation line is between Gobbiners and none Gobbiners really, just make sure where the boundary is that separates us from Church

[Gayle]

I was told that 'gobbin' is the name for a small sliver of coal. As the truck carrying the coal went through town there were little slivers of coal which would fall off the truck. The really poor people would pick these up because they couldn't afford to buy coal. They became 'Gobbiners' and therefore 'Gobbiners' came synonymous with poor and badly educated folk.

I was also told that the 'big lamp' is in that position because it marks the top of the last mine that was closed in Ossy.

[MargaretR]

I have websearched Town Bent colliery.
The carts of gobbins travelled to the top of New Lane and down through the town past the lamp. So the site of the lamp could not have been the 'last colliery that was closed'