Accringtons Elusive Abbey

[Retlaw]

Hi Mr D.

It has been called Cow Houses for well over 150 years, the area around there was known as Cow House Post in the early census returns. In the 1828 Survey the lands and buildings in that area were owned by Jacob Lang and William Myers. Lang paid £56-8s & Myers paid £11-11s-10d, in Rates. What is know as Cow Houses later became part of Black Abbey Farm. A woman from up in pudding land (Yorkshire) once did an article on underground shippons, she made a right mess of description of the one in Accrington. When we did our survey, I took particular note of the stone sills between the stalls, there were what appeared to be saw marks an them, I also took several samples of the mortar between the joints, I was going to have them carbon dated, till I found out it couldn't be done on mortar. I'm still of the opinion that they were once the cellars of the old grange, and have been used by numerous people for different purposes over the years.
Retlaw.

Originally Posted by ***Mr D***

Thanks for that insite/photos.

I to from research was told that, but having been inside, myself I find it hard to believe it was for cows or does cow house have a different meaning?, seems a bit to small. but agree it's no tunnel.

[***Mr D***]

Originally Posted by Retlaw

Hi Mr D.

It has been called Cow Houses for well over 150 years, the area around there was known as Cow House Post in the early census returns. In the 1828 Survey the lands and buildings in that area were owned by Jacob Lang and William Myers. Lang paid £56-8s & Myers paid £11-11s-10d, in Rates. What is know as Cow Houses later became part of Black Abbey Farm. A woman from up in pudding land (Yorkshire) once did an article on underground shippons, she made a right mess of description of the one in Accrington. When we did our survey, I took particular note of the stone sills between the stalls, there were what appeared to be saw marks an them, I also took several samples of the mortar between the joints, I was going to have them carbon dated, till I found out it couldn't be done on mortar. I'm still of the opinion that they were once the cellars of the old grange, and have been used by numerous people for different purposes over the years.
Retlaw.

Thanks for that.

I have been in to the property above which use to connect and (now sealed) there is a passage way so cellar would be plausable.

The little side windows?? or what ever they where puzzled me.

[polly]

So Did the Priest Hole on Black Abbey St ever exist? I was told that this was under a shop called Scholes or similar.

anyone know?

[Retlaw]

There was no such thing as a Priest hole back in the 12th century, they only came into existence when the catholic religion was banned. Why would monks require a Priest hole?.

Retlaw

Originally Posted by polly

So Did the Priest Hole on Black Abbey St ever exist? I was told that this was under a shop called Scholes or similar.

anyone know?

[polly]

Originally Posted by Retlaw

There was no such thing as a Priest hole back in the 12th century, they only came into existence when the catholic religion was banned. Why would monks require a Priest hole?.

Retlaw

Not necessarily in the 12 thC but as a child growing up in Accrington I was always told that there was such under an old shop. It was suppose to have been use during Henry VIII reign and his fickle views on religion

[Retlaw]

That again is some one pulling you leg.
Henry the 8th riegned from 1509 to 1547. Accrington as such didn't exist, there were two small villages known as Accrington Vetus & Accrington Nova. The earliest known count of the inhabitants was in 1666 when Charles 2, levied taxes on the inhabitants. The tax rolls which are held at the Public Record at Kew in London, list all the inhabitants liable for taxes.
My examination of those rolls shows there were 30 families living in Accrington Vetus and 71 families in Accrington Nova, it also listed the occupations of these people. The first road to be built in Accrington was Abbey St in 1790/91, by blind Jack O Naresborough. Before that the were no proper streets in Accrington and the only cottages were in Grange Lane, Heifer Bank, Heights, High Riley, Lower Hey, Lower Antley, Lower Hollins, Old Laund, Pilling Cottages, Rothwells Cottages & Woolhurst bank.

There were no SHOPS, no running water only about 10 wells for the residents, no toilets or proper sanitation, just the rivers and streams to get rid of your garbage, it was not until the Babbage report in the 1850's that the local board of health was made to start dealing with the problem. There was only two churches in the area at that time. Altham and Church Kirk. the nearest Catholic enclave was some time later at Dunkenhgalgh.

Retlaw.

uote=polly;528756]Not necessarily in the 12 thC but as a child growing up in Accrington I was always told that there was such under an old shop. It was suppose to have been use during Henry VIII reign and his fickle views on religion[/quote]

[Karolgadge]

Just read this after re-activating membership. Yes, you're quite right about the farms being called 'vaccaries' but the exact meaning of the term is more accurately rendered as a 'cattle farm' from the latin for cow 'vacca' (a root from which we derive our modern term 'vaccine'). Occasionally it is still possible to see the outlines of medieval vaccaries (at Brennand near Dunsop Bridge for example) but obviously due to the urban development of Accrington, traces are impossible to find here.
The Black monks or, rather 'Black Friars' is the common designation of the Dominican order or Order of Preachers (OP). Friars did not reside in monasteries or priories. Cistercian habits in the medieval period were of undyed wool so would have appeared greyish in colour.
As a boy living in Accrington I was familiar with the hoary old tales of 'Black Abbey' and the tunnel which supposedly led to Whalley. As I grew older, I learned to discount these myths; the real history of local monasticism is much more interesting.

[desmond]

please could you email me pictures of tunnels of accrington
and possibly tell me where the entrances are as i have been
looking for them for quite a while
regards
Des

[desmond]

wats happend to ur photo

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by desmond

please could you email me pictures of tunnels of accrington
and possibly tell me where the entrances are as i have been
looking for them for quite a while
regards
Des

We have discussed this subject before, there were never any tunnels, relating to the so called Black Abbey, and the myth about them going to Whalley Abbey, is just that a myth, Whalley Abbey wasn't founded till after the monks of Kirkstall had left Accrington. 10 feet down under most of Accrington in that area is solid rock, how are going to get through that, gunpowder was unknown to them days.
I posted two of the earliest documents relating to the aquisition of Accrington by those monks on another thread.
Retlaw

[garinda]

Originally Posted by desmond

please could you email me pictures of tunnels of accrington
and possibly tell me where the entrances are as i have been
looking for them for quite a while
regards
Des

Nearly all of them have caved in, or been bricked up.

The only tunnel that's still accessible is in what's now the ladies toilets in the Warner's Arms. Part of the floor lifts up, and there are steps down to the tunnel.

Unfortunately the trapdoor is kept locked, and is hard to see it's position, as it's very well hidden. You can work out where it is though, by stamping your feet, and listening for a hollow sound, unlike the rest of the floor.

Both the owners and brewery aren't keen on letting people down anymore, mainly because of Health and Safety, and them being fearful of being sued if people are injured down there, as the stone steps are very steep, and as the tunnel heads of towards the east, headroom becomes limited indeed, at about four foot high.

It's certainly very interesting down there.

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by garinda

Nearly all of them have caved in, or been bricked up.

The only tunnel that's still accessible is in what's now the ladies toilets in the Warner's Arms. Part of the floor lifts up, and there are steps down to the tunnel.

Unfortunately the trapdoor is kept locked, and is hard to see it's position, as it's very well hidden. You can work out where it is though, by stamping your feet, and listening for a hollow sound, unlike the rest of the floor.

Both the owners and brewery aren't keen on letting people down anymore, mainly because of Health and Safety, and them being fearful of being sued if people are injured down there, as the stone steps are very steep, and as the tunnel heads of towards the east, headroom becomes limited indeed, at about four foot high.

It's certainly very interesting down there.

What I want to know is what are you doing in a ladies lou stamping your feet.
If that cellar is heading East then it won't go far, the river Hyndburn runs under Cross St.
Can't have owt to do with the Black Abbey Grange used by the monks of Kirkstall either, their buildings were around the area between Hargreaves St & Jacob St.
There were a number of cellars and cellar dwellings in Church St and the bottom of Warner St, mostly sealed off now.

Retlaw.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Retlaw

What I want to know is what are you doing in a ladies lou stamping your feet.
If that cellar is heading East then it won't go far, the river Hyndburn runs under Cross St.
Can't have owt to do with the Black Abbey Grange used by the monks of Kirkstall either, their buildings were around the area between Hargreaves St & Jacob St.
There were a number of cellars and cellar dwellings in Church St and the bottom of Warner St, mostly sealed off now.

Retlaw.

I understand your reticence about wanting to preserve our heritage, by keeping this information quiet, but it does need to be recorded, where the last remaining tunnel is.

We were lucky enough to be amongst the group that were admitted in 2003. Others, if it's their wish, should at least be allowed to know of it's existence.

[Karateman]

Originally Posted by Retlaw

The so called Unknown Tunnel, is nothing more than what was known back in the mid 1800's as Cow Houses. It is off Jacob St and is not a tunnel, it is a Cow House existing from the 1700's. In 1984 a member of the local Historical Society and Myself drew up detailed plans of the whole site from Abbey St to Jacob St, we also went inside and took several photographs. The presnt day entrance is not the original, it was extended some seven feet to provide footings for another building which was for stables for the old Red Lion Inn.
Retlaw

SO WHERE NEAR JACOB ST IS "COW hOUSES"?

Phil

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by Karateman

SO WHERE NEAR JACOB ST IS "COW hOUSES"?

Phil

What are you shouting for.

This thread is now nearly 4 years old. Cow Houses is now inaccessible, rubbish dumped and overgrown, plus access from Jacob St is now blocked off. If you tried to get at it now, you might never be found again, I posted two photos earlier in the thread, and it was a shallow opening then, those picture were taken over 20 years ago. Those drawings and other photos are now in the Library

Retlaw