Alleytroyds

[susie123]

Originally Posted by Retlaw

This is a more likely explanation, considering the age of the place, & its first mention in the Church Kirk registers. In those days Vicars were not usualy local to the area, & wrote what they thought they'd heard, and Alley tu Royds is feasable considering local dialects. Especially as there were very few paved roads in those days, mostly cart tracks.
Retlaw.

I get what you are saying Walter but surely a place name important enough to be on an 1840s map would have been around longer than a clergyman's mishearing in 1783.

[susie123]

Digging around for more about Alleytroyds I found the following very informative document about Church and its history

http://www.hyndburnbc.gov.uk/downloa...st_2007_3_.pdf

I especially liked the following:

Church can probably trace its origins back to the Conquest. It has a recorded
history and survivals that are 800 years old. The site was selected initially for
its favoured topography. It was also blessed with water power and reserves
of coal which sparked the industrial growth that has forged the special
character of the Conservation Area. Church forms a distinct enclave within the larger Accrington conurbation. It is recognised from viewpoints in the
surrounding landscape. It retains considerable heritage interest, possibly
unique of its type including discernible topographic setting, medieval vestiges
and plan-form, node of transport infrastructure, and locus of industrial
revolution sites and buildings.

These elements combine to form character areas of great power that are unlikely to be experienced elsewhere in modern Britain.
It offers a distinct and valuable character setting for sympathetic development, and merits better understanding and treatment.

Assessing Special Interest

The Conservation Area is part of a landscape characterised as “Industrial
Foothills and Valleys”, but has a pre-industrial history dating from the
conquest. By the 13th century its plan form had been established by routes
focussed on the church. The earliest survival is medieval (the church tower).
However the character of the conservation area was defined by Georgian
industrialisation - the canal (1807-87), Bradshaw Street housing 18228 and the turnpike of 1827.

The document mentions Alleytroyds on page 21 but only as an area name, with no historical information.

Further trawling on Google found mention of Alleytroyds in the censuses for 1841, 51 and 61, as an address with people living there.

I also found the following record on Lancs Lantern:

Title: Alleytroyds Theatre, Church and Oswaldtwistle
Newspaper:Accrington Free Press
Issue Date:Mar 13, 1858
Page:4
Column:d
Illustrated:No
Description:Alleytroyds Theatre, Church and Oswaldtwistle
Obituary:No
Library Location:Accrington
Cuttings:No
Classmark:T71
Format:Microfilm

And on the following website:

Place:Blackburn Registration District, 1861 Census Street Index S-T - Your Archives

This is a list of streets and places in the Blackburn Registration District in the 1861 census and includes

Toll Bar Alleytroyds, Church Kirk reference RG 9/3106 folio 13

[MargaretR]

That 'glory' of Church is long gone.
I know- I lived in Church from 1985 - 2002, and sold my house dirt cheap just to get out fast.

[Less]

Originally Posted by MargaretR

That 'glory' of Church is long gone.
I know- I lived in Church from 1985 - 2002, and sold my house dirt cheap just to get out fast.

Don't put yourself down, I'm sure things didn't improve even after they got rid of you.

[walkinman221]

Originally Posted by susie123

Dave do you think the man would have been Royds rather than Royd otherwise the street would have been so named.

I think the name was Royd rather than Royds, it may be that it was known as royds street as in it belongs to him

[susie123]

From Victoria County History of Church, 1911

Townships - Church | A History of the County of Lancaster: Volume 6 (pp. 399-404)

The principal road is that from Blackburn to Accrington, crossing the southern end of the township. The road from Blackburn through Oswaldtwistle enters the south end at Alleytroyds, apparently the Ollertrodes of 1618

There were various minor families in the township, but little can be recorded of their estates. The names of Radcliffe, Church, Cattlow, Rodes, Aspden, Wallbank and Collinson occur among the earlier deeds, and the inquisitions show that the Nowells of Read and other neighbouring landowners had small estates.

Thomas Greenwood of Oswaldtwistle died in 1618 holding lands called Ollertrodes, Fleets and Churchfield in Church of the heirs of Ralph Rishton by 3d. rent; Lancs. Inq. p.m. (Rec. Soc.), ii, 244. The Greenwood tenement may be traced to the John Greenwood (1506) mentioned above in the account of Cattlow. Richard Greenwood and Thomas his son had land, &c., in Church and Oswaldtwistle in 1577; Pal. of Lanc. Feet of F. bdle. 39, m. 116.

[susie123]

I may be going out on a limb here but the Scandinavian name Olle is a diminutive of Olaf, the name of several kings of Norway. We were speculating not long ago about a possible Viking origin for Accy...

http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...tml#post967263

[susie123]

Alternatively...
This very unusual surname is 13th century Medieval English, and is recorded in an equally unusual number of spellings. These include such forms as Holliar, Hollyar, Hawler, Hawler, Holyard, Hollyard, Hollors, Hulliard, Olle, Ollar, Oller, Olliers, and Oyler! They all derive in whole or part from original residence by either a place of worship, probably a pagan temple or a holy-yard, with "yard" being an enclosed area, or from living or working in a "holly wood". Holly, being a very hard wood, had many uses in the olden times, and the specialist growing of holly was a major industry. The fact that there are so many varied forms of the surname is testament to both the vigorous local dialects and the inablility of local clerics to spell anything but the most obvious names. There has been a suggestion that the name is Norman-French and in the form as Ollier or Oller, this in some cases, may be so. If this is the case, then it is a short or nickname form of the personal name Olivier or Oliver.

[steve2qec]

Nice bit of research, Sue.
You've unearthed a lot to be going on with.....!

[susie123]

Originally Posted by steve2qec

Nice bit of research, Sue.
You've unearthed a lot to be going on with.....!

Wow! appreciation at last...

[steve2qec]

Originally Posted by susie123

Wow! appreciation at last...

Well you are researching your own question!! haha!

[susie123]

Originally Posted by steve2qec

Well you are researching your own question!! haha!

Silly me!

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by susie123

I get what you are saying Walter but surely a place name important enough to be on an 1840s map would have been around longer than a clergyman's mishearing in 1783.

Ged off thats 53 years lots of things can be put on maps if they are refered to by that name.
I have quite a few old maps, and if you look at the small print at the bottom, you will see the surveying was done by army engineers. Names were supplied by local knowledge. When they were surveying the engineers would'nt know the names of the places they were setting up their theodolites on.
Those army men did not draw the maps, all their findings were sent to the cartographers, who then drew the maps, and added place names. The 1848 Ordnance survey of Accrington contains 27 mistakes.
Retlaw

[susie123]

Originally Posted by Retlaw

Ged off thats 53 years lots of things can be put on maps if they are refered to by that name.
I have quite a few old maps, and if you look at the small print at the bottom, you will see the surveying was done by army engineers. Names were supplied by local knowledge. When they were surveying the engineers would'nt know the names of the places they were setting up their theodolites on.
Those army men did not draw the maps, all their findings were sent to the cartographers, who then drew the maps, and added place names. The 1848 Ordnance survey of Accrington contains 27 mistakes.
Retlaw

Hence Ancliff and Stannel for Antley and Stanhill on some of the old maps.

It does look though from what I have uncovered that Alleytroyds was in existence under whatever name a couple of hundred years at least before
the late 1700s.