Hyndburn Local History Society.

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by Atarah

oh oh! who's gone grumpy again?

So would you be after having listened to the verbal diarrhea that was spouted as local history last night, and then to day on here, from some one who should know better.
Retlaw.

[Bob Dobson]

It is a pity that Walter cannot discuss matters in a non-vitriolic way. His references to 1 3/4 are intended to mean Les (007) Bond., who he believes, along with 'The Harrogate Tripe Dresser' are out to benefit from the mountain of information on WW1 personnel data that he has painstakingly obtained. I do not share his beliefs , nor do I want to see someone vilified for doing something openly about our history,nor do I like things done in secrecy. If this planning work has been going on for three years, why doesn't the body most concerned with local history , the Local History Society, know anything about it? Who does know? who is taking part in the planning?

The present mayor will be out of office in 2014, but in my view, she is the one to approach at this time.

There may be a shortage of £sd and council officers may be working hard, but these things don't mean that it is useless to abandon efforts. I fear that if the local history society does not try to get the ball rolling, the Pals will not be commemorated.

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by Bob Dobson

If this planning work has been going on for three years, why doesn't the body most concerned with local history , the Local History Society, know anything about it? Who does know? who is taking part in the planning?

Because its being done by people who are active, and willing to do manual labour, and are able to organise things, and get funding, which was already said has been ongoing for some time, the last thing they need is another committee, especilaly if 7/8's thinks he's going to run it, or be on it.

Originally Posted by Bob Dobson

There may be a shortage of £sd and council officers may be working hard, but these things don't mean that it is useless to abandon efforts. I fear that if the local history society does not try to get the ball rolling, the Pals will not be commemorated.

You have already been told the ball is rolling, and has been for a while, so why should you be consulted. When Bill Turner organised the Exihibition on the 90th Anniversary of the Somme, at the Haworth, it went quite well without your lot, my annual displays at the Haworth have never needed your lots imput either. The display at Ossy Mills did'nt need your lot either, when people want info on WW1 soldiers who do they ask, your lot, I dont think so.
Retlaw

[Bob Dobson]

It pleases me that Walter is commenting and communicating his views, even if at variance with mine, as when the phone rings, he slams it down if he doesn't want to talk to you. Whenever I have asked him for information on any aspect of local history, he has obliged. However, if the mayor in 2016 wants a list of the local men who served in and fell in the Great War so that their names can be read out in honour, I doubt that Walter will supply it and he is the only one with that list. He has the ability to correct errors and omissions on our war memorials but doesn't, and as a result , men remain unhonoured.

I remain of the view that planning for events affecting the town should not be done behind closed doors in secrecy. I respect Walter's viewpoint from the opposite angle.

[wallop79]

See pg 19 this weeks accy observer, 'planting poppies to honour pals' the poppy packs were sent out last year by prospects.

[dusty mears]

I feel some of Bob’s postings are a little inaccurate.
For the record I was at the meeting and did take some notes. Although there was some good ideas, too many involved funding and complicated, involved organising. To me, there wasn’t much evidence at the meeting of involvement with either funding or organising events. It’s not easy arranging 1 idea, let alone several. I’ve numerous years experience so know how difficult it is.
I’ve put forward some ideas already to HBC. One for next year, some others to the new Leader, Miles. I've another planned for 2016. The reason ideas aren’t public knowledge is that they need confirming. If no one knows about them, then no one’s disappointed or slagging the council off if they don’t materialise.
Having worked directly / indirectly with HBC over many years as a volunteer, what I’ve found they are good at is facilitating ideas/projects as best they can. You come up with the idea, funding, bodies to organise, get on with it and they’ll help where they can.
In the current financial climate, there’s neither the financial resource nor staffing time to dedicate to events. Why the meeting thought someone from the Council should be there was beyond me. To say staff are stretched in LA’s is an understatement. Gone are the days of “the Council sorting it out for you.”
My idea for 2016 (“under wraps”) doesn’t involve the Council and until I’ve met to determine it’s viability is known only to me (& 2 others). That way if it doesn’t get off the ground, no ones lost out but if it does, it’ll likely put Accrington into the international arena.
A poppies project was not discussed last night as a suggestion. I made the meeting aware of the Prospects Poppies for the Pals Project. An idea I came up with and discussed with HBC 3 years ago which became so massive it was split into 3 separate projects. Last year schools & other interested groups were invited to plant poppies to commemorate 2011 as the 95th anniversary of the Battle of the Somme. Hundreds of free seed packets were sent out across the Borough. Details of the project are on the Prospects Foundation Web Site.
It’s planned to continue with the Project until 2016 and build it up to the original vision I had. 01/07/2016 is supported by many I know as being the point / date to commemorate the Pals, and for that matter, any other service personnel the Borough has lost in too many conflicts.
The PPP project was publicised last year & this in LET & Observer. So as I said last night, short of putting a flyer through every house in Hyndburn, there’s only so much publicity you can do.
In addition, a couple of weekends ago, a Prospects Task Force, planted poppies at Oak Hill War Memorial, Mercer Park War Memorial and various other sites. Poppies have also been planted in Haworth Park some months ago.
Isnt the current Mayor’s office up next year? Not 2014
And picking up on other postings further down, nothing’s being planned behind closed doors. You don’t go spouting your mouth off from the roof tops and set yourself up for a fall until the plan’s clearly in place.
Who’s been planning what for 3 years – I’m the only 1 who came up with a project idea 3 years ago – Poppies. Back to publicity comments
I got the feeling that the group who met last night are not aware of / in touch with the numerous other groups & organisations in the Borough who can and do get things moving/done and who'd be interested. the mountain will not come to mohamed.

And yes, Father is the only one with the full list of those who fell. He won’t even let me see it ………………. I’m no 1 daughter. Why should he and Bill have spent more years than I can remember researching the Pals for others to just crib, poach, present as their own.
As for allegedly slamming the phone down – Id say that’s any phone owners prerogative. Bit like not answering the door if you don’t want to.

I admire the thought that the eyes of the world may be on Accrington between 2014-2016…………… Ambitious, but admirable.

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by Bob Dobson

It pleases me that Walter is commenting and communicating his views, even if at variance with mine, as when the phone rings, he slams it down if he doesn't want to talk to you. Whenever I have asked him for information on any aspect of local history, he has obliged. However, if the mayor in 2016 wants a list of the local men who served in and fell in the Great War so that their names can be read out in honour, I doubt that Walter will supply it and he is the only one with that list. He has the ability to correct errors and omissions on our war memorials but doesn't, and as a result , men remain unhonoured.

I suggest you reread the thread on Oswaldtwistles War Memorials, when I complained about the number of mistakes, and those who are still missing.
One of Britcliffes comments was that if Mr Holmes will submit his list he would have it checked.
Checked by whom, the same two who cocked up the present list up ?. The only people who can confirm the accuracy of my lists are employed in Accrington Library, they accept my work without question, as do the staff at Fulwood Museum, and Bury Museum, when they ring with a query.

Originally Posted by Bob Dobson

I remain of the view that planning for events affecting the town should not be done behind closed doors in secrecy. I respect Walter's viewpoint from the opposite angle.

Nothing regarding what Prospects & the others are doing, has been done in secrecy, there have been several press releases in the past about their work.
Is it sour grapes because you and 7/16ths were'nt informed personally.
As for Accrington's War Memorial there are 83 names missing, 11 names spelt wrong & 10 men recorded twice (caused by errors in the A.O.& T., reporting) who else has taken the time to photograph the A.O.&T from 1914 to 1922, the Blackburn Times 1914-1919, Burnley News July Aug 1916, & the Chorley Guardian 1916, over 5000 digital images.
If you think I spend all this time and effort, just to have it judged by amatuers, I should coco.
Bill Turner was never asked to verify his "Accrington Pals" Books, now he has been followed by several who claim to be Pals experts, where did they acquire that knowledge. To me they are x spurts, ie x meaning was, and spurt which is a drip under pressure.
Bill & I spent several weeks during the early 2000's down at the Kew Record Office plus a lot of other places, searching for info, & now you think I should hand it over to your society.
I didn't start this task just for others to take the credit, I do it for my own satisfaction, & I will, do with it as I please.
Retlaw

[garinda]

Blimey.

This is how wars start.

(I hope Retlaw's on the same side as me.)

[Neil]

Originally Posted by garinda

Blimey.

This is how wars start.

(I hope Retlaw's on the same side as me.)

It makes a change for it not to be you starting them, well not on this thread

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by garinda

Blimey.

This is how wars start.

(I hope Retlaw's on the same side as me.)

Dont worry Gari your protected.
Trouble is some of those mouthing of have never heard bullets whistling past their ears, have no concept of what those lads went through in the trenches.
Every one was a Hero whether they got a medal or not.
Retlaw.

[Bob Dobson]

In truth, me and Walter are on the same side. Our tactics vary, but we are aiming at the same target - the recording of local history.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Retlaw

Dont worry Gari your protected.
Trouble is some of those mouthing of have never heard bullets whistling past their ears, have no concept of what those lads went through in the trenches.
Every one was a Hero wether they got a medal or not.
Retlaw.

Phew, because having met you, and heard you talk about some of the other so-called 'experts', I'd sooner have you covering my back, than face you across a battlefield.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Bob Dobson

In truth, me and Walter are on the same side. Our tactics vary, but we are aiming at the same target - the recording of local history.

I know that Bob.

I was only joking.

On behalf of Joe Public, to all those that do to it, I'd just like to say that it's appreciated.

[Retlaw]

I was also at that meeting in the library, I did'nt take notes, I have a good memory. Some of the suggestions were too daft to laugh at, to name one, why don't we have a parade of soldiers marching thro Accrington like they did in September 1915,
that march thro Accrington started in Blackburn, with W, & Z Coy's marching over Red Cap, thro West End Oswaldtwistle, & into Accrington, to take the salute outside the Town Hall.
Trouble is with last nights statement that march past happened on AUGUST 1st 1915, even Pine Wood Studio's could'nt recreate that event, 500 men in full WW1 kit plus SMLE rifles. What dream world do you lot live in.
Retlaw.

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by Bob Dobson

It pleases me that Walter is commenting and communicating his views, However, if the mayor in 2016 wants a list of the local men who served in and fell in the Great War so that their names can be read out in honour, I doubt that Walter will supply it and he is the only one with that list. He has the ability to correct errors and omissions on our war memorials but doesn't, and as a result , men remain unhonoured.

One thing that needs clarification, there are several lists in my computer relating to casualty figures, exactly which list would be read out, and by whom.
The total casualties for July 1st 1916, which contains many names of men who served in the 11th East Lancs, but had no connection with Accrington, to me they are also Accrington Pals they fought & died with them on July 1st.
Would this list that some one may read out, just be for Accrington, or for Greater Accrington as it was then known, which comprises the present day Hyndburn. That list is in the 1000's & includes those who are not recorded on memorials, many of whom had suffered in hospitals from their wounds for long periods, I have one on record, who died of war related wounds in the 1940's, and an autopsy revealed he still had shrapnel in his body when he died, is he entitled to be on that list, or is the cutoff point 1922, like a lot of War Memorials did.

Retlaw