Kings Highway and appeal to landowners

[Home Grown]

Hi,

I was reading with great interest the threads dealing with the oldests parts of Accy, and was particulary interested in reading about Spire Farm and area, especially as it seems to be linked to the Kings Highway.

I have been looking at this area with some interest because several months ago, shortly after my mum died I took up the hobby of metal detecting after being introduced to one of mum's friends who was in a Metal detecting club. I am now also a member of this club. My friend had permision to detect on some land nr Haslingden which also has links to the kings Highway and she asked the land owner if I could detect with her on this land. So as often as we can us two old fogies go out detecting.

We have made a few interesting finds from the 1700's onwards (like cartwheel pennys etc) but nothing older than this, which has surprised me, as given it's links to the Kings Highway - I would have expected medieval finds.

I would be really interested to hear if anyone has any info on the Kings Highway - I understand it is an old medieval trackway but know little more than that. I also heard that some people think it might be an old Roman Road but it's not been proved.

I would also love to hear from any Landowners/Farmers in the Accy area , who are interested in finding out more about the history of thier farm/land, who might be willing to allow me and my friend to detect on your land - especially if your land is in an old part of Accy like Spire Farm - but ANY land to detect on would be most welcome. I don't drive so it's difficult for me to visit farms to ask for permision in person - so when I came across AccyWeb I thought I would ask on here.

We would be happy to show you anything we found, as this would expand your knowledge as well as ours. I am female aged 55, my friend is also female and a sprightly 72yrs.

Please get in touch if you can help.
Thank you

[Retlaw]

Spire Farm is not on the old Kings Highway, the Kings Highway runs over the back of Hambledon lodge, past what used to be calle Hambledon Hall Farm. The last tenants of that farm were called Wright.
Spire Farm is on the site of one of the old Vaccaries of the monks who used to reside in Accrington. When they left the de Lacies appointed a steward called Riley. The tower at Spire farm was added in circa 1825. it used to stand behind High Riley Cottages and was taken down and built into the farm buildings. The 1828 survey of New Accrington shows a new rate evaluation for the addition.

Retlaw

Originally Posted by Home Grown

Hi,

I was reading with great interest the threads dealing with the oldests parts of Accy, and was particulary interested in reading about Spire Farm and area, especially as it seems to be linked to the Kings Highway.

I have been looking at this area with some interest because several months ago, shortly after my mum died I took up the hobby of metal detecting after being introduced to one of mum's friends who was in a Metal detecting club. I am now also a member of this club. My friend had permision to detect on some land nr Haslingden which also has links to the kings Highway and she asked the land owner if I could detect with her on this land. So as often as we can us two old fogies go out detecting.

We have made a few interesting finds from the 1700's onwards (like cartwheel pennys etc) but nothing older than this, which has surprised me, as given it's links to the Kings Highway - I would have expected medieval finds.

I would be really interested to hear if anyone has any info on the Kings Highway - I understand it is an old medieval trackway but know little more than that. I also heard that some people think it might be an old Roman Road but it's not been proved.

I would also love to hear from any Landowners/Farmers in the Accy area , who are interested in finding out more about the history of thier farm/land, who might be willing to allow me and my friend to detect on your land - especially if your land is in an old part of Accy like Spire Farm - but ANY land to detect on would be most welcome. I don't drive so it's difficult for me to visit farms to ask for permision in person - so when I came across AccyWeb I thought I would ask on here.

We would be happy to show you anything we found, as this would expand your knowledge as well as ours. I am female aged 55, my friend is also female and a sprightly 72yrs.

Please get in touch if you can help.
Thank you

[rosegrove]

anybody no who lives at spire farm now i used to go about with a lad who lived there in the 60s i think is first name was arthur

[MovedtoBolton]

I used to deliver the mail to all the farms and cottages in this area back in the late 80's. Spire Farm (or New High Riley Farm as is was known postally) was split up into at least 3 properties around that time as I recall. Spire farm is the wrong side of the by pass to be associated directly with the Kings Highway.
The Kings Highway starts (so far as Accy is concerned) near Windy Harbour farm above the Easterly By Pass cutting and runs over Moleside Moor. Properties likely to have land adjacent to it are:
Miry Lane Farm, Slate Pits Farm, Moleside End Farm, Blue Slates Cottage and West Farm. "Traditionally" many resident farmers view visitors with, shall we say an air of suspicion. The highway continues over Black Moss, through Stonefold village and then through Sherfin at the back of Winfields. Thats where my connection ends but I understand that in it's original state it was a drovers road between Lancaster and Manchester and not quite as old as some might think (just how true that is, I don't know).

Ian

[MovedtoBolton]

Quick correction to previous:
Kings Highway starts at the top of Kingsway behind 562 Burnely Rd.

[Home Grown]

Many thanks Retlaw and Moved to Bolton - some interesting info you gave there.

Sorry Retlaw, perhaps you missunderstood me when I talked about Spire Farm having connections to the Kings Highway. I did not mean that I thought it was actually on the Highway, but just that it was close enough to the highway to have probably used it in medieval times - and likely have had a track leading from the farm to the highway in the past - especially given it's monkish connections - as my theory is that the Kings Highway originally ran to or through Whalley (only a theory). That's the main reason I would love to get permision to detect there. Maybe I should write to the present owners - but I don't know what they are called.

Moved to Bolton - I haven't heard your story before that the Kings Highway is an old drover's road leading from Manchester to Lancaster, but that too would make sense - although my suspision is, that it is at least medieval if not earlier as Medieval trackways rarely run along valley bottoms, but usually run along the sides of hills - just like the Kings Highway. Plus old roads given the name "The Kings Highway" usually have medieval connections, as relatively fast routes for the transportation of messages from the king to his earls or ecclesiastical landowners.

Thanks again

[Retlaw]

The present day line of the Kings Highway, was used as a boundry line way back in the 1100's as written in the Coucher book of Kirkstall. There are a number of old quarries along that old highway. You might find things that the miners have lost, and there was an old lead mine at Luddington Clough.
Retlaw.

Originally Posted by Home Grown

Many thanks Retlaw and Moved to Bolton - some interesting info you gave there.

Sorry Retlaw, perhaps you missunderstood me when I talked about Spire Farm having connections to the Kings Highway. I did not mean that I thought it was actually on the Highway, but just that it was close enough to the highway to have probably used it in medieval times - and likely have had a track leading from the farm to the highway in the past - especially given it's monkish connections - as my theory is that the Kings Highway originally ran to or through Whalley (only a theory). That's the main reason I would love to get permision to detect there. Maybe I should write to the present owners - but I don't know what they are called.

Moved to Bolton - I haven't heard your story before that the Kings Highway is an old drover's road leading from Manchester to Lancaster, but that too would make sense - although my suspision is, that it is at least medieval if not earlier as Medieval trackways rarely run along valley bottoms, but usually run along the sides of hills - just like the Kings Highway. Plus old roads given the name "The Kings Highway" usually have medieval connections, as relatively fast routes for the transportation of messages from the king to his earls or ecclesiastical landowners.

Thanks again

[Ernie]

Originally Posted by rosegrove

anybody no who lives at spire farm now i used to go about with a lad who lived there in the 60s i think is first name was arthur

That is Correct Rosegrove, Arthur Hardy was his name, I was at junior school with him, he will be in his mid 50s by now.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Originally Posted by rosegrove

anybody no who lives at spire farm now i used to go about with a lad who lived there in the 60s i think is first name was arthur

Oh my golly gosh! Would that have been Arthur Hardy?

Ooops, sorry Eernie, missed your reply.

I know his Mum and knew his (now deceased) Dad, Arthur. Arthur Junior now lives down south and his Mum has recently moved down there to live with his family. They are a lovely family.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Arthur senior was our Bishop at one time when we were in Rawtenstall Ward. He actually passed away one Sunday at church in Blackburn in the middle of a lesson. I can remember that day so vividly. Jenny is a lovely lady and we miss her so much since she moved away. She told us lots of tales of when they used to live at Spire Farm.

[Home Grown]

Originally Posted by Retlaw

The present day line of the Kings Highway, was used as a boundry line way back in the 1100's as written in the Coucher book of Kirkstall. There are a number of old quarries along that old highway. You might find things that the miners have lost, and there was an old lead mine at Luddington Clough.
Retlaw.

Wow that dating info is really interesting as it ties in with some historical research I have done regarding the site I detect on with my friend nr Haslingden - not that we have had any finds from there to coroberate our research yet.

The main problem with metal detecting is that there is not an inch of land in the country that isn't owned by someone, and it's illegal to detect without permission from the landowner - so it's not like you can just go to some old quarry or clough and start detecting - much as you can be tempted to do so. For instance, you are perfectly at liberty to swing your detector on a public footpath, but the minute you put your spade in the ground to dig up a likely signal you are breaking the law - unless the landowner has given you prior permission.

It's frustrating because there is so much land out there and so much history under our feet just waiting to be discovered.

Home Grown

[Retlaw]

Hi Homegrown.
All the moorland on Moleside and parts of Hambledon were regarded as common land, until one day I was up there a heck of a long time back and there were survey makers all over the place, turns out due to some old law that the land could be claimed by them in the know, and it was, but the present landowners live so far away that I doubt if they would ever know you'd been there. Try the area around what is known as the gambling caves. I used to go up there in the late 1940's and early 1950's with a dog and a gun, every weekend there would be blokes tossing coins, six blokes would be on lookout for the police and if they saw any one who looked suspicious they would all scatter. They never bothered about me being there. There must be loads of money and other stuff in the ground around there.
Retlaw

Originally Posted by Home Grown

Wow that dating info is really interesting as it ties in with some historical research I have done regarding the site I detect on with my friend nr Haslingden - not that we have had any finds from there to coroberate our research yet.

The main problem with metal detecting is that there is not an inch of land in the country that isn't owned by someone, and it's illegal to detect without permission from the landowner - so it's not like you can just go to some old quarry or clough and start detecting - much as you can be tempted to do so. For instance, you are perfectly at liberty to swing your detector on a public footpath, but the minute you put your spade in the ground to dig up a likely signal you are breaking the law - unless the landowner has given you prior permission.

It's frustrating because there is so much land out there and so much history under our feet just waiting to be discovered.

Home Grown

[Home Grown]

Originally Posted by Retlaw

Hi Homegrown.
All the moorland on Moleside and parts of Hambledon were regarded as common land, until one day I was up there a heck of a long time back and there were survey makers all over the place, turns out due to some old law that the land could be claimed by them in the know, and it was, but the present landowners live so far away that I doubt if they would ever know you'd been there. Try the area around what is known as the gambling caves. I used to go up there in the late 1940's and early 1950's with a dog and a gun, every weekend there would be blokes tossing coins, six blokes would be on lookout for the police and if they saw any one who looked suspicious they would all scatter. They never bothered about me being there. There must be loads of money and other stuff in the ground around there.
Retlaw

Thanks Retlaw - never heard of the gambling caves, can you tell me just where they are? I will pass that info onto another detecting friend of mine who I know would be very interested.

For myself and my regular 72 yr old detecting friend, im afraid neither of us are fit enough to hike anywhere, especially with all our gear, (headphones, detectors, spades, etc, and moorland is very difficult to detect on and dig (very tufty).

Plus we prefer the safety of farmland where you are not going to get accosted by yobs. Sadly this happened to me once. Detectors are very expensive and highly stealable items and invariably elicit interest from anyone passing by. A couple of oldies like us wouldn't stand a chance if some yob decided to take them. Also areas of regular occupation like farms give more interesting and varied finds, and less rubbish like ring pulls, drink cans, bottle tops, foil etc.

Coins and metal artifacts deteriorate rapidly in moorland soils which tend to be highly acidic. A friend of mine found some copper coins on the coppice a while back and initially thought they were roman as they were about the right size (10 - 14mm). But when he got home and cleaned them they turned out to be old pennies less than 40 yrs old, pretty much rotted away. Whereas on pasture type farmland like we have in this area, those pennies would have come out of the ground in nearly as good a condition as the day they were lost.

I might be wrong on this (but don't think so) - there is no such thing as common land anymore. Not common in that you are free to make use of it (owned by everyone). Before I took up detecting I thought pretty much like yourself - that there is loads of land to go at where no one would bother you or where you wouldn't be breaking the law - but sadly that's not the case.

Thanks for the tips though - much apreceated. You obviously know the accrington area very well.

Regards
Home Grown

[MovedtoBolton]

Gamblers Caves are about 1km East of "Spire Farm" at grid ref SD791282.
I spent several summer days up there in the mid 70's. We used to make camp fires and cook beans in the tin. Pushing the boat out or what!

Ian

[rosegrove]

thanks ernie for info on arthur hardy did you go to peel park shcool i went peel park school then woodnook sec school as it was then