Street Names

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by Bob Dobson

Back to the reasons for streets being called what they are :- Can anyone come up with why Lydia St is so called? I think I have the answer, but want to consult before declaring it

Marsden St is said to be named after a local family.(1870s) Do we know owt about 'em?

I read an intersting statistic recently - Between 1850 and 1856 there were 62 new streets laid out in Accrington.

Just checked my 1863 map, it shows the layout for over 70 new streets, most of them are named, including Lydia St & Marsden St.
Those houses in those 70 odd streets weren't built untill the 1890's & 1900's, so who did decide the names for the streets, 20 years or so before the houses were actually built. By the time they were built, the reason for naming could have been long forgotten
The only sure way is old estate plans, which would show the land owners, (very few of those plans still exist).
A lot of the new streets are on what today would be called Green Belt land, as such there would only be a few owners, so trying to give them the names of relatives of those land owners, it just guessing.
I only believe in documentary evidence, I once tried at the clown hall legal offices, they were really unhelpfull.

Some of the street names shown on the map were never used.

Retlaw.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Bob Dobson

Back to the reasons for streets being called what they are :- Can anyone come up with why Lydia St is so called? I think I have the answer, but want to consult before declaring it

Marsden St is said to be named after a local family.(1870s) Do we know owt about 'em?

I read an intersting statistic recently - Between 1850 and 1856 there were 62 new streets laid out in Accrington.

Since there are two streets named after daughters of Frederick Steiner, Emma and Lina Street, could Lydia Street have been named after another local woman, who was well known in certain circles, Lydia Ernestine Becker?

http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...ker-51371.html

http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...9pm-52408.html

[Tealeaf]

The late 19th century Mill owners of Accrington opted to invest in property construction and speculation at the expense of investment in their mills. Much of this investment involved vanity projects, such as naming terraced streets after family members. As such, technology lag led to relative higher costs and the loss of overseas markets when faced with more advanced American competition, resulting in the fast decline of the local textile industry.

A level Economic History. Question 1. Discuss. 25 marks.

[Bob Dobson]

I think that Lydia Becker appeared on the scene too late to be a nominee for a street name, and her connection with Accrington was not well known.

Retlaw is right - I am guessing. At this time, there is no way of proving the reason for a street name, but I think there is a pattern or method to the namings, and there is often no other explanation.
He is right too in that they were often named 20yrs before the setts went down or the houses built. If hargreaves had known in advance that John carter would be leaving Accrington under a cloud ( of misusing monies given him for a purpose and putting it to his private purposres), I doubt that he would have 'honoured' him with a street name.
He is right too in that some proposed street names either got changed or not used. Amongst them was Highfield St, which woud have been built near the top of Lydia St, Woodnook near to where (Mayor) Eli Higham's house 'Highfield' is. Maybe there's a connection between HIGHam and HIGHfield.


Is Tealeaf quoting something, or writing it himself? If a quote, I'd like to know where it is from. It has the ring of authenticity about it.

[Tealeaf]

Originally Posted by Bob Dobson

I
Is Tealeaf quoting something, or writing it himself? If a quote, I'd like to know where it is from. It has the ring of authenticity about it.

I wrote it myself. It boils down to the argument that many self made 19C industrialists took their eye off the ball and instead of maintaining investment in British industries (not just the Lancashire textile industry) decided to spend their money elsewhere, in everything from American railroad stocks through to fake castles in Scotland (think of Bullough).

Possibly someone will write - or has already wrote - a PhD thesis on this theory and how it applies to Accy. I dunno. What is for certain is that there was a massive housing construction boom in most northern mill towns around the latter part of the 19th century, coinciding with new mills being built but those mills contained very little in radically advanced technology from 50 years earlier - think of the standard Lancashire loom and compare it with the stuff the Yanks were starting to build.

So is it a case of the mill owners seeing the writing on the wall, and deciding to invest their money elsewhere, or were they just stupid? Either way, the likes of Accy is still paying the price.

[MargaretR]

I saw that explanation of the decline of the cotton industry in a TV documentary
...I think it was one of the 'Time to Remember' series, but not sure of that.

[Tealeaf]

There's nowt new or unique in the explanation in a recent cheap TV documentary - arguments have been made about this going right back to the beginning of the last century and maybe beyond.It's all there in any respectable economic and social history book of the last century. Try some serious reading for a change, instead of what is the latest government UFO coverup.

[steve2qec]

Hi, can anyone shed any light on this?....I've got my Grandad's WW2 army paybook and inside his address is given as Tremmelling St. was/is there such a street in Accy or did he mis-spell Tremellen?
Thanks,
Steve

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by steve2qec

Hi, can anyone shed any light on this?....I've got my Grandad's WW2 army paybook and inside his address is given as Tremmelling St. was/is there such a street in Accy or did he mis-spell Tremellen?
Thanks,
Steve

Tremellen St, on Blackburn Rd, near the Old Grammar School.
He didn't write that, but some cloth eared clerk who didn't understand the Lanky dialect. His writing will be where he signed his name. In 1914 very few children had more than a few years education, from the age of 9 or 10 he could have been working in the mill on half time, the other half at school.
Ancestry has hundred of mis-spellings on documents.

Retlaw.

[steve2qec]

Thanks Retlaw, I thought as much.
Although this was 1938 - when he enlisted in the TA. I think he had a decent education but he was originally from Yorkshire, so who knows!!

[JCB]

Originally Posted by MargaretR

I saw that explanation of the decline of the cotton industry in a TV documentary
...I think it was one of the 'Time to Remember' series, but not sure of that.

Yes I recall the documentary . Even that it was on on a Friday night .

The mill owners were too wedded to the Lanacashire Loom that modernisation passed them by .

[steeljack]

Originally Posted by JCB

Yes I recall the documentary . Even that it was on on a Friday night .

The mill owners were too wedded to the Lanacashire Loom that modernisation passed them by .

Not to sure about that , seem to remember my Grandma talking about using Northrop automatic looms , know she used to run 8 looms which I think was normal for a weaver , wether they were 'Lancashire' or 'Automatics' or both ,I dont know.

[MargaretR]

I remember my dad going for tackler training on Northrop automatics at Whitebirk, and my mother eventually weaving on them, but the whole mill wasn't converted to them.

In that Tv programme I mentioned in an earlier post, the biggest advances in textile machinery were in spinning - and both weaving and spinning technological advances were late being implemented by Lancashire mill owners.

Put simply - the customers found that cotton fabric produced by those advanced machines could be bought cheaper - the market was lost.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by steeljack

Not to sure about that , seem to remember my Grandma talking about using Northrop automatic looms , know she used to run 8 looms which I think was normal for a weaver , wether they were 'Lancashire' or 'Automatics' or both ,I dont know.

there were automatics around, but in the minority as i remember it. think the owners were too sodding tight to convert em all n missed the boat.

[Bob Dobson]

Back to street names: Foster Street is off Burnley Rd, one street down from Pennyhouse Lane/ Queens Rd. In the 1870s(?) a David Foster lived in a house at the corner Foster St & Burnley Rd., so maybe there is a connection there. The Peel family would have given the OK for the street's name, but I don't yet know what the connection with that family is.. I do know that it has nowt to do with Foster's fireplaces, Are there any Fosters in Accrington now who could throw light on this? I imagine that if there are, they will be proud to say that the street is named after their ancestor.