World War 1 - Page 15

Retlaw · 05-07-2011, 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by SALONIKA

Hi Retlaw. Many thanks for your reply.Do you think that news of his court marsall would have made the local newspapers also do you know which Battalion of the East Lancs he served with in France because his later Battalion the 9th were in Salonika in December 1915.

No information like that would have been censored, I don't think his family would have known either, nor do I think he would have admitted it.
He would probably just have sent his new address, and serial number when he was posted to the K.O.R.L.
Court Marshalls appear in many mens service records, for all sorts of reasons, even a simple accident was investigated, and recorded in his service records. The most severe punishment below imprisonment, was Field Punishment Nu 1, a man would be shackled in crucifiction manner to a post or a gun carriage wheel for 2 x 2 hour periods each day, usually in an area subject to enemy shell fire. No man wanted that punisment twice, and it would be a vivid demonstration to all the others. Later F.P. 1 was banned, and F.P. nu 2 was used more often, this was shackled for 2 x 2 hrs periods each day, but allowed move about.
Retlaw

Gordon Booth · 07-07-2011, 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retlaw

The most severe punishment below imprisonment, was Field Punishment Nu 1, a man would be shackled in crucifiction manner to a post or a gun carriage wheel for 2 x 2 hour periods each day, usually in an area subject to enemy shell fire. No man wanted that punisment twice, and it would be a vivid demonstration to all the others. Later F.P. 1 was banned

Retlaw, I was astonished when I read that.Such savage punishment so little time ago.
Looked it up on Wikipedia-' it was issued on 60,201 occasions'! 'Sometimes applied within range of enemy fire' as you said. I wonder how many of the poor devils actually got hit? 'Applied three days out of four for up to 21 days'! It's like something from the Dark Ages.

Retlaw · 07-07-2011, 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth

Retlaw, I was astonished when I read that.Such savage punishment so little time ago.
Looked it up on Wikipedia-' it was issued on 60,201 occasions'! 'Sometimes applied within range of enemy fire' as you said. I wonder how many of the poor devils actually got hit? 'Applied three days out of four for up to 21 days'! It's like something from the Dark Ages.

The British Army has been in existence for hundreds of years. They know every trick that men would try on, and evolved a punishment to fit every crime. In the early days a lot of soldiers were uneducated, conscipted convicts, and such, the Royal Navy had a long record of floggings to mantain discipline, thats why the Royal Marines were posted to the old sailing ships, to help the captain maintain discipline, amongst other duties.
There was a war on, and discipline had to be maintained at all costs.
How many men were actually killed by shell fire, or by snipers we will never know, he would just be entered as K.I.A. Of the near 3000 sets of service records I've aquired, never seen a reference to a mans death from that punishment.
Films like the Monacled Mutineer, and The Hill, are pure Hollywood fantasy. I've met one bloke who was a Glass House Guard, use to work at H&B's they were noted for brutality.

Retlaw.

SALONIKA · 08-07-2011, 18:56

Hi Retlaw. Just read this entry from the 9th Battalion K O R L R dated 30 May 1918. Court marshall took place for 24 men of the 9th East Lancs who six weeks before had refused to obey the orders of their company commander. A few were let off . The NCOs were reduced to the ranks and the ring leaders sent to military prison. As Pte Crabtree was sent to prison, it would seem that he was viewed as a ring leader. Not bad as he only joined the East Lancs in December 1917. The fact that news of this court marshall was spred around the Battalions of the Salonika Army must have been seen as a warning.

Retlaw · 15-07-2011, 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth

Retlaw, I was astonished when I read that.Such savage punishment so little time ago.
Looked it up on Wikipedia-' it was issued on 60,201 occasions'! 'Sometimes applied within range of enemy fire' as you said. I wonder how many of the poor devils actually got hit? 'Applied three days out of four for up to 21 days'! It's like something from the Dark Ages.

Just been looking for a mans papers, and found this man in the Manchesters, sentenced to 7 days Field punishment Nu 2, for being deficient in his tea & sugar ration.
Retlaw.

katex · 01-08-2011, 12:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Gilmartin

Good morning Retlaw, Im trying to find out if my grandad, Patrick Gilmartin, served in WW1, he would have resided, in iether Willow St, Or Lower Barnes St, Clayton, & Which site do I go to, to find my dads service, record, in ww2, he served in India. And also I though it would be nice if I could wear a medal on ANZAC day, on behalf of my great uncle Anthony Gilmartin, who was killed in Galipolli, where would I get such a medal, just to show he has'nt been forgoten.

Sure you may have this already, Alan. however, in Mercer Park yesterday and took this for you: (1 of 2 plaques for WW1) just in case you hadn't :

Clayton plus 004.jpg

Retlaw · 01-08-2011, 14:46

[quote=katex;922750]Sure you may have this already, Alan. however, in Mercer Park yesterday and took this for you: (1 of 2 plaques for WW1) just in case you hadn't :
Looks like they've had new panels made, the others were bad to read.
Retlaw.

katex · 02-08-2011, 07:04

[quote=Retlaw;922761]

Quote:

Originally Posted by katex

Sure you may have this already, Alan. however, in Mercer Park yesterday and took this for you: (1 of 2 plaques for WW1) just in case you hadn't :
Looks like they've had new panels made, the others were bad to read.
Retlaw.

Think it may have been last year, Retlaw ... looks very smart now. This is the other one:

Clayton plus 005.jpg

dusty mears · 02-08-2011, 21:25

think it was renovated 3-4 years ago. Remember having a look with cllr collingridge as he wanted some brass / bronze caps doing to cover bolts

katex · 02-08-2011, 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by dusty mears

think it was renovated 3-4 years ago. Remember having a look with cllr collingridge as he wanted some brass / bronze caps doing to cover bolts

Eeew hek, really ? Seems to be a sympton of getting older .. things happened a lot longer ago than you thought.. thanks.

cashman · 02-08-2011, 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by katex

Eeew hek, really ? Seems to be a sympton of getting older .. things happened a lot longer ago than you thought.. thanks.

agree time goes quicker when yer older.

i will probably be dead 6 months before i realize.

MargaretR · 02-08-2011, 22:05

I have discovered that I had three great uncles that I never knew I had.
They survived childhood because they were recorded as young adults on censuses.

Thomas E Marsden born 1872
Edward Marsden born 1879
William Marsden born 11/03/84

....all born and lived in Oswaldtwistle at 301 Union Rd as children and young adults.
(Parents were Edward and Amelia Marsden)

Maybe they moved away/emigrated but WW1 is the most likely reason why they were never mentioned.
I remember my gran and two great aunts very clearly, but they never mentioned having any brothers.

Do you have record of them Retlaw darling?

Retlaw · 02-08-2011, 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by MargaretR

I have discovered that I had three great uncles that I never knew I had.
They survived childhood because they were recorded as young adults on censuses.

Thomas E Marsden born 1872
Edward Marsden born 1879
William Marsden born 11/03/84

....all born and lived in Oswaldtwistle at 301 Union Rd as children and young adults.
(Parents were Edward and Amelia Marsden)

Maybe they moved away/emigrated but WW1 is the most likely reason why they were never mentioned.
I remember my gran and two great aunts very clearly, but they never mentioned having any brothers.

Do you have record of them Retlaw darling?

I have 40 with the name Marsden, most of them seem to be living in Snuffy.
I have an Edward, age 36/10, lived at 13 Bridge St, Snuffy, joined the R.G.A.
Two Thomas's one lived in Snuffy the other in Clayton.
Two William's, one in the A.V.C. lived in Meadow St, Acc. The other was in the L.C. lived in snuffy
Retlaw.
PS
and less of the darling bit, grumpy old barsteward to you.

MargaretR · 02-08-2011, 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retlaw

I have 40 with the name Marsden, most of them seem to be living in Snuffy.
I have an Edward, age 36/10, lived at 13 Bridge St, Snuffy, joined the R.G.A.
Two Thomas's one lived in Snuffy the other in Clayton.
Two William's, one in the A.V.C. lived in Meadow St, Acc. The other was in the L.C. lived in snuffy
Retlaw.
PS
and less of the darling bit, grumpy old barsteward to you.

Thanks for looking

SuziQ · 27-09-2011, 19:54

A new member - with a new name for your research.
My gr-gr-grandfather was Tom Burton 75033. He appears on the Absent Voters List and lived at 108 Henry Street, Church. He survived the war and died in 1956. He enlisted on 7 Jan 1915 and appears to have been posted directly to France with the Royal Field Artillery.
It would be fantastic if you could shed any further light on this area of my search.
Would love to hear from you.
SuziQ