Accrington on Newsnight now

[GEaston]

Thanks Susie, interesting viewing, and a very controversial subject.

My views on that are:

1) The bloke who's 56 and never had a job would historically have been put in a sanitorium and thus hidden from statistics. Since they closed them down he doesnt have so many options. Clearly unemployable, I guess society has just got to carry him (although many will resent it).

2) I do have some sympathy with the 59 year old expressing the view that he's worked all his life and benefits should be paid in line with contribution. Fair comment I think.

3) Maundy centre looks like a great cause. The bloke that's too worried to get a job should be volunteering in places like that instead of just going out for cups of tea with social workers.

4) The country's benefits bill went up by 50% (to 30bn from 20bn a year) under the Labour Govt. That's out and out stupid - taxpayers can't afford it and returning it to a sustainable level is going to be painful.

5) UK is bankrupt, and can't pretend that it's not. The reality is that swapping out manufacturing for banking and haircutting (the two remaining UK industries) was a disaster for the country.

6) New tech industry like my own could not be based out of the UK because as a newstart business you get no tax breaks at all (VAT in particularly sucking out 20% off everything you make/sell from day 1). I moved my business out of the UK because of this and also because I was competing with the benefits system for employees. I actually had employees move to part time work because they'd earn more in benefits (Single mums in particular). I was paying more than minimum wage, but couldn't compete with the size of handouts for some of my people. I employed 50 people in Berwick a couple of years back, now what remains of the firm I started there runs about 6 people. Simple reality for me is that my business could not have worked out of the UK, needed to move out in order to prosper (mix of couldn't get the skills, and couldn't pay the taxes). Thankfully for me other countries are no so business unfriendly.

7) If I was a young person in Accrington I'd save up for and get a 1 way ticket to the Falkand Islands (full employment, decent wages, shortage of people, Brits loved). Only downside is that the weather is even worse than you get in the UK.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Gaston

Thanks Susie, interesting viewing, and a very controversial subject.

My views on that are:

1) The bloke who's 56 and never had a job would historically have been put in a sanitorium and thus hidden from statistics. Since they closed them down he doesn't have so many options. Clearly unemployable, I guess society has just got to carry him (although many will resent it).

2) I do have some sympathy with the 59 year old expressing the view that he's worked all his life and benefits should be paid in line with contribution. Fair comment I think.

3) Maundy centre looks like a great cause. The bloke that's too worried to get a job should be volunteering in places like that instead of just going out for cups of tea with social workers.

4) The country's benefits bill went up by 50% (to 30bn from 20bn a year) under the Labour Govt. That's out and out stupid - taxpayers can't afford it and returning it to a sustainable level is going to be painful.

5) UK is bankrupt, and can't pretend that it's not. The reality is that swapping out manufacturing for banking and haircutting (the two remaining UK industries) was a disaster for the country.

6) New tech industry like my own could not be based out of the UK because as a new start business you get no tax breaks at all (VAT in particularly sucking out 20% off everything you make/sell from day 1). I moved my business out of the UK because of this and also because I was competing with the benefits system for employees. I actually had employees move to part time work because they'd earn more in benefits (Single mums in particular). I was paying more than minimum wage, but couldn't compete with the size of handouts for some of my people. I employed 50 people in Berwick a couple of years back, now what remains of the firm I started there runs about 6 people. Simple reality for me is that my business could not have worked out of the UK, needed to move out in order to prosper (mix of couldn't get the skills, and couldn't pay the taxes). Thankfully for me other countries are no so business unfriendly.

7) If I was a young person in Accrington I'd save up for and get a 1 way ticket to the Falkland Islands (full employment, decent wages, shortage of people, Brits loved). Only downside is that the weather is even worse than you get in the UK.

Think you've summed up Britain to a tee there, benefits are a work deterrent, with people better off sat at home than working in a lot of cases

[cashman]

Thing is quite simply GEaston The Maundy "Could" be a great cause, in fact the programme made it look one, Due to hiding the reality. If yeh was around accy regular yeh would see first hand.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by cashman

Thing is quite simply GEaston The Maundy "Could" be a great cause, in fact the programme made it look one, Due to hiding the reality. If yeh was around accy regular yeh would see first hand.

Its a pity they didn't bump into some Accy Webbers when they were filming who may just have told um a few home truths

[wadey]

Politics aside people should be better off if they go to work, of course we should help people who are poorly

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by wadey

Politics aside people should be better off if they go to work, of course we should help people who are poorly

The Problem is wadey its hard to tell these days who are genuinely sick or poorly as you put it, years ago if you were of work signing on the sick you had to have a DHSS medical every 26 weeks, why now if people are asked to justify their incapacity claim is there such a hue and cry. As I've said many times I have always been prepared to go for a medical, but the fact is it was the DHSS who told me I would not be asked to attend a medical again as my condition was totally incurable and was getting worse, something of an a final statement really

[Less]

Originally Posted by jaysay

The Problem is wadey its hard to tell these days who are genuinely sick or poorly as you put it, years ago if you were of work signing on the sick you had to have a DHSS medical every 26 weeks, why now if people are asked to justify their incapacity claim is there such a hue and cry. As I've said many times I have always been prepared to go for a medical, but the fact is it was the DHSS who told me I would not be asked to attend a medical again as my condition was totally incurable and was getting worse, something of an a final statement really

You'll be happy to know that tests are still done and that the tests are no longer to prove that you are ill or disabled but that no matter what your severity may be you can be found fit for some form of work.

Which is why double amputees, completely blind people, folk with chest/heart complaints and people on the waiting list for organs such as kidneys that are on dialysis three times a week have been declared capable of doing and finding work.
Just a shame that someone in your own circumstances could consider others (two of my personal friends) that have also been told they never have to attend a medical again as their conditions were totally incurable and were getting worse,they got called in and passed as fit, only because they are not yet at retirement age.
They like thousands of others are appealing the decisions which is probably costing far more than the swingeing savings that are claimed to be made.

However they aren't your problem are they? Why should they get the same care that you got when you were of working age?

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Less

You'll be happy to know that tests are still done and that the tests are no longer to prove that you are ill or disabled but that no matter what your severity may be you can be found fit for some form of work.

Which is why double amputees, completely blind people, folk with chest/heart complaints and people on the waiting list for organs such as kidneys that are on dialysis three times a week have been declared capable of doing and finding work.
Just a shame that someone in your own circumstances could consider others (two of my personal friends) that have also been told they never have to attend a medical again as their conditions were totally incurable and were getting worse,they got called in and passed as fit, only because they are not yet at retirement age.
They like thousands of others are appealing the decisions which is probably costing far more than the swingeing savings that are claimed to be made.

However they aren't your problem are they? Why should they get the same care that you got when you were of working age?

There again Less you miss the point there are thousands of people swinging it, you know it I know it, why is it DLA increased out of all proportions from 1997 to 2008 had people's health suddenly started going down hill quicker or was it something else, are you say that this should be allowed to carry on, people driving round in mobility cars doing their shopping before taking the dog for a five mile walk, maybe if a little more care had been taken before we wouldn't be in the same situation now, money is the easiest thing in the world to give away especially when it isn't yours

[wadey]

All parties are to blame as they decided to reduce the unemployment figures by putting people on the sick

[Less]

Originally Posted by jaysay

There again Less you miss the point there are thousands of people swinging it, you know it I know it, why is it DLA increased out of all proportions from 1997 to 2008 had people's health suddenly started going down hill quicker or was it something else, are you say that this should be allowed to carry on, people driving round in mobility cars doing their shopping before taking the dog for a five mile walk, maybe if a little more care had been taken before we wouldn't be in the same situation now, money is the easiest thing in the world to give away especially when it isn't yours

No, you deliberately miss the point I suspect, all these people have been signed off by Doctors and specialists, people with more degrees than you can shake a stick at.
Yet they don't go before a Doctor to be considered fit but someone employed to get as many off these benefits as possible.
Of course there are lead swingers and when caught they should be dealt with severely, but to directly attack the majority that are innocent as you are doing by backing this policy is inhumane and selfish.

What an outcry there would be if in a supermarket it was reported there had been a few shoplifters so punish all the customers in the shop.
Of course that couldn't happen it wouldn't be just, nor is it just to punish the weakest members of our society because of the misdeeds of a very few.

[cashman]

My grandaughter is NOT classed as disabled, though the hospital,doctor both say she is, Daughter has had to buy allsorts of special equipment n stuff, but camerons lackeys say shes fit.