Deletions of Threads and Postings

Darby · 23-06-2004, 05:29

In East Germany after WWII, people use to write to the local press and complain about this/that/or the other and about what they thought on local and national issues. Some papers actually printed them. Suddenly, these papers started to appear with blanked out letters to the editor columns. People started to get "knocks on their doors" after dark. And people who wrote letters to the editor, started to go for "long holidays in Siberia". The message was quite clear....Don't print or allow the truth to appear, stop the people thinking about it by omission.

Sinister times!!

Earlier this week, Tealeaf started a thread based on a story in the Evening Telegraph about school children being allowed / encouraged to speak their mother tongue instead of English at their school. I wrote what I considered to be a valid comment on this subject and innocuously made reference to their origins. Whilst I was actually on the thread, my posting was deleted; by whom I don't know! No statement about the deletion was given and no PM was sent.
I was almost immediately personally attacked in a posting by Kippax regarding the innocuous word that I used "Pa*i", and although his attack was vociferous, and quite nasty in nature I replied using correct, non-inflammatory English, and asked him/she to admit that they were wrong about my intentions.
I did not like or agree with the Kippax posing, but I would defend his right to say it, openly and freely - That IS freedom of speech and expression.
This morning I find that not only had my postings been deleted, but the whole thread had also been deleted. Not a trace of it. Nor any reference to it - just as if it had never existed. A truly Orwellian method.

The aim of this "new" thread is to alert all members to this occurrence on what is "OUR" website (as without members no website can exist), and propose a system where members will at least be aware what was originally on site, and why "Threads" had been deleted. This is not reformist, nor reactionary, nor a radical change that would harm this website.

I feel all "Censor" deleted threads / postings should remain as a header, but their contents deleted. This will show that the "Censor" without recourse, has deleted the thread. It would also be more helpful if the "Censor" stated why the thread / posting had been deleted. There would be no further correspondence, but it would show that "something" was amiss. This would enable individuals to correct what the "Censor" thought was an infringement of any rules that are imposed. It is not enough to "Delete" without saying why it had been deleted, otherwise members will not know what they have done wrong! And will therefore be unable to ensure that it doesn't happen again. That seems fair and honest to me. Sending a PM to the person who has, intentionally or unintentionally infringed the rules, will make them directly aware of the problem.

By carrying out the foregoing, the site would show that it had no "dark intentions" and was fair and free to all.

WillowTheWhisp · 23-06-2004, 06:50

Sounds good to me Darby. I don't know if one of my posts was offensive to the site owner or not. I posted a lot in that thread.

The last notification I had of a post was one informing people that a certain item is still available for sale and therefore must no longer be non PC.

Roy · 23-06-2004, 07:49

Quote:

I don't know if one of my posts was offensive to the site owner or not

I don't know how I got involved in this, I've been away on holiday

Anyway - I'm still having a look around at what has been deleted and what has been censored. But please remember the moderators are doing there job, if something is considered racial or whatever (I'm not getting into what is and isn't right now) then I can get into trouble(not the moderators), even though when you sign up there is an agreement that you will be responsible as the poster. I don't want to get into trouble or have this site closed down - I don't know if you are aware but the internet is far from a free speech resource, there are many legal rules and guidelines that have to be followed on a site such as this, too many for me or any of the moderators to actually be certain on. So to err on the side of caution is the best solution as of now.

Discussions are being held with our moderators on what the best solution is for the future of the site. This is a discussion forum after all and we do live in a multi race/culture society so the subject is always going to appear.

I will leave this thread open and if anyone wishes to contribute ideas then they are welcome. If this thread however turns into a race debate then it will be closed.

Darby · 23-06-2004, 08:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roy

I don't know how I got involved in this, I've been away on holiday

Anyway - I'm still having a look around at what has been deleted and what has been censored. But please remember the moderators are doing there job, if something is considered racial or whatever (I'm not getting into what is and isn't right now) then I can get into trouble(not the moderators), even though when you sign up there is an agreement that you will be responsible as the poster. I don't want to get into trouble or have this site closed down - I don't know if you are aware but the internet is far from a free speech resource, there are many legal rules and guidelines that have to be followed on a site such as this, too many for me or any of the moderators to actually be certain on. So to err on the side of caution is the best solution as of now.

Discussions are being held with our moderators on what the best solution is for the future of the site. This is a discussion forum after all and we do live in a multi race/culture society so the subject is always going to appear.

I will leave this thread open and if anyone wishes to contribute ideas then they are welcome. If this thread however turns into a race debate then it will be closed.

Thank You Roy. I also hope that this thread stays on the topic of Thread and Posting Deletions. After all, it is important what Thread / Posting is deleted. Why it is deleted is always open to debate, but there are rules and interpretation of rules. If we all know what's happened, we can then moderate our posts or not make any comments, but we will be aware.

KIPAX · 23-06-2004, 08:17

Its KIPAX with one P.... How hard can that be?

Roy · 23-06-2004, 08:21

I'll just point out right now the use of the work "p***" will not be tolerated at all on this website. This is not open to discussion and will not be re-considered. It could be illegal and whatever the history of the word this rule is now going to be set in stone for accyweb.

WillowTheWhisp · 23-06-2004, 08:24

Just a suggestion - if something in a post offends (not the whole post but a word for example) is it possible for a moderator to edit that word and then add an explanation that a word has been edited and by whom and why, yet leave the post and thread more or less intact.

This has been the accepted proceedure at another forum I visit. Also, if a thread itself is a possible problem they move the whole thread to an administration area (not sure if you have one of those on here) where it can only be seen by "staff" until it is edited to the required/necessary standard and then replaced (a note being left in the open forum to explain the temporary removal and that it will reappear at some future point)

That way the whole discussion isn't lost but the members are made aware of problems.

I fully understand that it is necessary to comply with terms of usage or the whole board could be removed by the host (or whatever you call the board provider - ie not Roy but the source)

WillowTheWhisp · 23-06-2004, 08:27

I don't think the original user of the P word intended it as an insult. An edit accompanied by a request to "not use this word" may have sufficed at the time an avoided further problems.

KIPAX · 23-06-2004, 08:28

Roy is the providor and the host. See his posts around this forum on server issues.

If an explanation is given to a deleted post then the person who has been edited will make a perfectly reasonable response as to why he posted what he did. This will read great to other posters and mates and they will then jump in with there views and outrage and the thread concerned is then hijacked.

WillowTheWhisp · 23-06-2004, 08:31

Sorry Kipax I was under the impression that this forum was hosted by Free Forums and didn't realise that was owned by Roy himself. I'm only familiar with things such as EzBoard and ProBoard.

KIPAX · 23-06-2004, 08:36

i was just trying to be informative mate.. cant see any need for apologies?

Darby · 23-06-2004, 08:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by KIPAX

Roy is the providor and the host. See his posts around this forum on server issues.

If an explanation is given to a deleted post then the person who has been edited will make a perfectly reasonable response as to why he posted what he did. This will read great to other posters and mates and they will then jump in with there views and outrage and the thread concerned is then hijacked.

I think you have sightly missed the point, and extrapolated a misconception of what was proposed. Please re-read my original posting, and note:

QUOTE: I feel all "Censor" deleted threads / postings should remain as a header, but their contents deleted. This will show that the "Censor" without recourse, has deleted the thread. It would also be more helpful if the "Censor" stated why the thread / posting had been deleted. There would be no further correspondence, but it would show that "something" was amiss.UNQUOTE

I hope this goes someway to alleviating your fears.

By the way are you a Moderator?

WillowTheWhisp · 23-06-2004, 08:53

Could a censored thread be temporarily locked to prevent hijacking?

KIPAX · 23-06-2004, 08:56

If you lock a thread then people in there frustration will start another asking why that one was locked.... it really is a no win situation I am afraid.. Hate sounding so negative but I ahve seen this before many times.

Roy · 23-06-2004, 08:56

Quote:

Could a censored thread be temporarily locked to prevent hijacking?

Yes - but things can happen so quickly, before a moderator has chance to do anything. Anyway, we will consider an admin area for threads to be considered.....