New Forums? Church & Heritage/local History

[Doug]

Can I dare to ask, would there be the support and interest for a couple of new Forums.

I am thinking of a dedicated Community Forum for Church to include its people and their interest, its heritage and support for its sporting teams.

The second would be a local history and heritage forum for the all area, Atarah, Weary, and tealeaf to name only a few have done some excellent work independently, and show the way as to what could be achieved collectively and under a dedicated forum…

Willow’s “In Search of an Old Viaduct” Thread is a shining example of what can be achieved in a short time.

Its just a thought….I like to do a Poll on the aforementioned subjects but I haven’t a clue how…Any help or constructive criticism would be appreciated.

[KIPAX]

Posting this in the appropriate area might help.. ie: forum feedback and suggestions...

Just a thought

[Roy]

maybe... i'll look into this when i am finally back in england. (fridayish)

[Doug]

Originally Posted by KIPAX

Posting this in the appropriate area might help.. ie: forum feedback and suggestions...

Just a thought

Thank you my friend. Like I said any help at all is appreciated.

Has a point of order perhaps Roy could possibly move it to the correct forum for me when time permits.

Thanks for the thought Roy it’s appreciated, the suggestion that Church may not be directly part of Accy to my mind puts it on a par with Ossy and Spring Hill and should be represented, I know the suggestion as been made before, so I am adding support to that.

The Request for a Heritage Forum is so that those interested could perhaps work closer together in order to have a collective as well organised voice in the community…..

Again thanks for your consideration.

[KIPAX]

Change it all to hyndburn and include everyhting... I like that idea and widens the audience potential.

[Doug]

By, that was quick.....

Yep I would agree with that too in regards audience potential. I need to point out that prior to the 74? boundery changes, Church was in Blackburns govenership along with Billington, Clayton le Dale, Clayton le Moors, Darwen, Dinckley, Eccleshill, Great Harwood, Little Harwood, Livesey, Lower Darwen, Mellor, Osbaldeston, Oswaldtwistle, Over Darwen, Pleasington, Ramsgreave, Rishton, Salesbury, Tockholes, Wilpshire, Witton, Yate and Pickup Bank.

Just a thought

[Tealeaf]

Originally Posted by Doug

By, that was quick.....

Yep I would agree with that too in regards audience potential. I need to point out that prior to the 74? boundery changes, Church was in Blackburns govenership along with Billington, Clayton le Dale, Clayton le Moors,......Just a thought

What do you mean, "governership"......as far as I'm aware the only connection between Church & Blackburn was way prior to 1974 in the form of the old Poor Law, where Church & Blackburn were togeather for administrative purposes.

Blackburn was a County Borough prior to 1974, with it's own police force, social services and education department; Church was an Urban District Council with a benchmarked history older than of Accrington. It had - and still has - its own magistrates court (albeit now sitting elsewhere); it had it's own (county) police station until the late 50's, and you may recall, Doug, the old fire station (for horse drawn engines) round the corner from the Thorn. In short, Blackburn had no jurispudence over Church whatsoever.

Church was far however, far better managed then; the consolidation with Accy, Ossy, etc has been a disaster for the town, the only saving grace being the allocation of the Sports Centre and new Fire Station to Church (on the simple basis that Church is the geographic centre of Hyndburn)...otherwise we've been well shafted for the last 30 years.

The nightmare is that we're now going to get doubly shafted by being taken over by that rotten borough called "Blackburn with Darwen" - and there's b**gar all we can do about it, simply because of a stitch-up between those slimey toads Prescott & Straw.

[Doug]

You may have me there Tea. My information relates to the late 1800s hence the question mark on 74….and possibly to my cringing relates to the registration districts in Lancashire. So I cocked up, sue me.

I remember the old Church c1960s, what it is now is far from the one I left. I am not sitting on the fence with this one but if you chose to accept the purposed future boundaries outline by the commission then you can’t cry foul.

I am sure HBC aren’t happy about the possibility and would welcome the support and attention of the local population for once…..

When I came back a couple a weeks ago I got lost, both around Church and getting out to Fern Gore the place had changed that much, and yes I was disappointed in what I saw. But given the chance to hold on to what’s left I would stand up and fight with the best of them. I believe your right; it will all be lost if left to Blackburn & Darwen.

[Doug]

Just a point Tealeaf, I am really looking forward to meeting you on the 31st. behind the front you put up, you’re a gentleman Sir.

[Darby]

If it creates interest and improves discussion, then I am all for it Doug. Church has a history and a chequered past, and no doubt is full of surprises. As a lad who grew-up in Church I would be interested in anything to do with it. Those who grew-up in Preston would no doubt be interested in Preston and so on. So I'd give it a go. But I'm sure Roy will look at it in a positive light and decide what can or cannot be done.

Go for it!

[Doug]

Cheer's Darby your comments are very welcome. Where may I ask are those who still in Church and the surounding area?

[Roy]

OK - a church section has been added to the communities bit. And a local history/heritage section has been added to old accrington. Of course this can include Hyndburn as well..

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by Roy

OK - a church section has been added to the communities bit. And a local history/heritage section has been added to old accrington. Of course this can include Hyndburn as well..

Which Old Accrington. Before 1874 there was an Old & New Accrington.

Old Accrington centered around Bull Bridge, & New Accrington centered around St James Church. The present Town Hall stood in Old Accrington.

Walter.

[Retlaw]

COUCHER BOOK of KIRKSTALL ABBEY

AS IT RELATES TO ACCRINGTON

(c) W.Holmes F.R.C.P.J.

ALTHAM

Former name Alvetham, also called Elvetham, the habitation of Elvet, a Manor or and Township on the western bank of the river Calder, which was part the lands granted by Henry de Laci, the first, (probably in the reign of Stephen de Bois), to Hugh son of Lofwine, or Leofwine, a Saxon Lord.
This charter, the second point in antiquity which I shall be able to cite in this work, is as follows.
From early records it can be established that a large area of this Country after the invasion by William the Conqueror in 1066, was granted to his cousin Roger de Montgomery. Montgomery's son Roger de Poitevin was granted all the lands between the Ribble & Mersey. He built Lancaster Castle & granted the manor & hundred of Blackburn to Albert de Greslet & Roger de Busli.

By the middle of the llth century a large part of Lancashire was in hands of a previously minor Baron, Robert de Laci, (son of Ilbert) Roberts second son Henry, made an agreement with Hugh son of Leofwine the Saxon, (shown below) the occupier of Atham, Accrington & the surroundinc area, Hugh had three grandsons who took the names de Altham, de Billington & de Pleasington, their names will appear on later documents in the subsequent disputes with the Monks of Kirkstall Abbey.



When Robert de Laci son of Henry & the last male heir died, circa
1193, (he granted Accrington to the Honks of Kirkstall) the lands passed to the descendant of his Aunt Aubrey, his cousin Aubrey, she had married Robert FitzEustace, their son John changed his name to de Laci when he became Constable of Chester. His grandson Henry Earl of Lincoln died in 1311 ad, and his holdings went to Alice his daughter, the Countess of Salisbury & Lincoln, she had married Thomas Earl of Lancaster, nephew of Edward II.

Thomas was executed for treason against his uncle in 1322, Alice then to sign everything over to Edward the II, this was done at Newcastle on 3rd Aug 1324, from that day Lancashire has been Crown Lands, (a record in the Coucher book of Kirkstall shows that Edward II had possesion of these lands in 1322 when the monks of Kirkstall Abbey tried to claim paynent for lands in Accrington).

Their son Thomas was later made Earl of Derby, one of his decendants later changed the family name back to de Laci.

This Is the first document which relates to Accrington

Sciant presentes et futuri quod ego Henricus de Laceia <dedi concessi et hac presenti Carta mea confirmavi Hogoni filio Lofwini et heredibus suis in feodo et hereditate Elvetham, Clayton, et Accrington et dimidiam Bylington, cum donacione monasierii de Elvetham, et in omnibus libertatibus predicte
terra pertimentibus, Tenendum de me et heredibus meis libre et quiete honorifice et plenarie, in bosco, in plano, on pasturis, in campis, in aquis. in piscaria, in molendinis, in venatibus, in omnibus predictis terris, Faciendo nobis et heredibus nostris servicum dimidi militid pro omnibus servicus ad nos pertinentibus. Hujus donacionis et confirmacionis sunt testes.

Richardus filius Gilberti, Adam Eile, Petrus Huett de Bencestria, Hustatius Malvuers, Hugo Day, Stephanus de Mvtton.William Elemosinarius, cum multis aliis.

Here's some local History
Walter

[Doug]

Excellent stuff Walter, I enjoyed that. We have quite an History here, something we can be proud of I think.........cheers.