62 Abbey Street

[katex]

Originally Posted by Retlaw

I've Several entries in census returns where its says empty or unoccupied. Also the early Burgess Rolls do not list a No. 60.

Well, it doesn't make sense to enter a property where there is no-one living in it ....

The Burgess Rolls, of course, are an Electoral Register so wouldn't be any point in listing it if nobody was in permanent residency. Perhaps the ones listed as 'empty or unoccupied' were domestic properties only and not business premises ?

There again, could have been half-day closing when they did the census ...

Would there be anything in the Barrett's Directories ?

[Karateman]

Originally Posted by DtheP47

Ronnie Ormerod from Ossy? would he be 65ish?

dont actually know him....he owned babyland I believe

[Karateman]

Originally Posted by Karateman

dont actually know him....he owned babyland I believe

Maybe the pub was three buildings at one point...1 Warner street and 60 and 62 Abbey Street ...or vice versa, and when it stopped being a pub (if0 maybe it was made into two buildings, 1 Warner st and 60 Abbey st making the doctors bit now and 62 Abbey st now the hairdressers. It was suppossed to have been a pub from1821 to 1860 ish

It certainly looks like the buildings either side of 62 and no 1 were built afterwards

Phil

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by Karateman

Maybe the pub was three buildings at one point...1 Warner street and 60 and 62 Abbey Street ...or vice versa, and when it stopped being a pub (if0 maybe it was made into two buildings, 1 Warner st and 60 Abbey st making the doctors bit now and 62 Abbey st now the hairdressers. It was suppossed to have been a pub from1821 to 1860 ish

It certainly looks like the buildings either side of 62 and no 1 were built afterwards

Phil

There is nothing in the 1841/51/61 census returns for an inkeeper at 60 Abbey St. All the records I've gone thro show a jump from 58 to 62, It is not shown as 1 Warner St, either. There are no buildings either side of 62, No. 62 is the first one after the Black Horse on Abbey St.
Probably one of those mystries that may remain unsolved.

[Karateman]

Originally Posted by Retlaw

There is nothing in the 1841/51/61 census returns for an inkeeper at 60 Abbey St. All the records I've gone thro show a jump from 58 to 62, It is not shown as 1 Warner St, either. There are no buildings either side of 62, No. 62 is the first one after the Black Horse on Abbey St.
Probably one of those mystries that may remain unsolved.

I wonder when 60 became part of the building. The docs surgery has a wopping 60 above the front door which is on the corner angle of warner and Abbey

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by Karateman

I wonder when 60 became part of the building. The docs surgery has a wopping 60 above the front door which is on the corner angle of warner and Abbey

Now you've got me, I've been through that surgury door many times and have never looked for a number, next time I'm in I'll ask him if he has the deeds, and what the number was when he aquired it.

[Karateman]

Originally Posted by Retlaw

Now you've got me, I've been through that surgury door many times and have never looked for a number, next time I'm in I'll ask him if he has the deeds, and what the number was when he aquired it.

You can see it on Google streetmaps. Garry in the hairdressers collects the groundrent.

[Karateman]

From what has been posted ie......
1861 census....No number 60....only 58 and number 62 occupied by Mrs Watson

1871 census...Numbers 60 and 62 together occupied by Mr Howarth

1881 census...60 is now apparently unoccupied and 62 still occupied by Mr howarth

Map of 1849 showing 60 and 62 as 2 buildings

Map of 1890/1910 showing both buildings now as one

What happenned between 1871 and 1881 when Mr Howarth lived only in 62?

[Karateman]

I think we can say then that there was never a pub at 60/62 Abbey Street.....

[Bob Dobson]

Originally Posted by Karateman

I think we can say then that there was never a pub at 60/62 Abbey Street.....

I think this is true. However, here is another avenue of exploration which I had overlooked.....in 1909-10 the Inland Revenue conducted a national survey of commercial & house properties. It is reinforced with maps I think. It is available in the Lancashire Archives, Preston.

[Karateman]

Originally Posted by Bob Dobson

I think this is true. However, here is another avenue of exploration which I had overlooked.....in 1909-10 the Inland Revenue conducted a national survey of commercial & house properties. It is reinforced with maps I think. It is available in the Lancashire Archives, Preston.

Bob, are these maps from the 1840's which is the era in question?

[Bob Dobson]

No - 1910,though there are maps of this period in the library. Ask what they have: [email protected]

[lindsay ormerod]

Been in the Docs surgery at 60 Abbey St this evening, I was looking around far more than usual for any giveaway signs, but apart from an old looking, rather ornate staircase ( ironwork with a wooden bannister that curves back on itself at the top landing) it's pretty much hidden behind panelling and woodchip.
I asked my nurse if she knew anything of the history of the building and she said straight away, no prompting " it's a protected building, used to be a pub, you can still tell from the cellar", I asked if she knew the name of the pub but she said not, although she did say that Dr Kapenda has some old documents relating to the building and she will ask him to look them out. She also said that the dividing wall between them and hairdressers next door is pretty much a partition affair. Seems like the trail isn't cold yet....

[Alan Varrechia]

Iv'e often thought those stairs were rather fancy as i trudge up and down them to give yet more blood.

[Karateman]

Hooray...maybe there is still life in this post.....the previous owner said he knew the pub name but had forgotten it....and there are some steps in the hairdressers that lead to a door into the surgery, that is now covered up with plasterboard.
Lets hope the Doc can find the documents and maybe a name or something