Cromwell. sinner or saint?

Mancie · 30-08-2008, 03:20

Oliver Cromwell took over this nation and hacked off the Kings head.but his body was dug up and scatterd... now he was not perfect but do you.. or anybody think the man should be given more respect?

steeljack · 30-08-2008, 07:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

Oliver Cromwell took over this nation and hacked off the Kings head.but his body was dug up and scatterd... now he was not perfect but do you.. or anybody think the man should be given more respect?

Nah, just an early incarnation of "Nu- labour" ......think history records him as destroying the State religion ( banning Christmas/Easter ) etc. much like the Nu Labour Stasi have destroyed British traditional society .......lets be honest ....who would/do you trust more .......Jack Straw or HRH Prince Charles ( ok, admit he can be a bit eccentric at times, but he has no political agenda) to look after your traditional British values ..........

....

Mancie · 30-08-2008, 07:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by steeljack

Nah, just an early incarnation of "Nu- labour" ......think history records him as destroying the State religion ( banning Christmas/Easter ) etc. much like the Nu Labour Stasi have destroyed British traditional society .......lets be honest ....who would/do you trust more .......Jack Straw or HRH Prince Charles ( ok, admit he can be a bit eccentric at times, but he has no political agenda) to look after your traditional British values ..........

....

You've fallen into that one Steeljack... you must be even more bored than I am.. but so you would rather have an unelected Royal Family decide what taxes are paid and how those taxes are spent.. seems strange coming from a rebel colonist!

steeljack · 30-08-2008, 07:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

You've fallen into that one Steeljack... you must be even more bored than I am.. but so you would rather have an unelected Royal Family decide what taxes are paid and how those taxes are spent.. seems strange coming from a rebel colonist!

no , just have a problem with carpet baggers of undertemiate eastern european origins who claim the name of 14 cent. English rebels and then profess to represent English values
Jack Straw (rebel leader - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

jaysay · 30-08-2008, 10:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by steeljack

no , just have a problem with carpet baggers of undertemiate eastern european origins who claim the name of 14 cent. English rebels and then profess to represent English values
Jack Straw (rebel leader - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

And there's me thinking Tony and Gordon were British

beechy · 30-08-2008, 11:04

if my memory serves me well
he didnt do a very good job across in ireland

West Ender · 30-08-2008, 18:53

Oliver is quite well regarded in this area, which was a Parliamentarian stronghold. There's a big statue of him in front of the Warrington Guardian office in the town centre and, next door to Sainsburys, there's an old timber framed cottage that used to be called "Cromwell's cottage" but is now just "The Cottage" - since it became an Indian restaurant. He's supposed to have stayed there for a while. Presumably he wsn't eating curries at the time.

Saint or sinner? I think he sincerely believed in his cause and there was some justification in deposing the king (killing him, however, was an unjustifiable fit of pique). I think the era of puritanism Cromwell brought in was stifling and, if I'd been around then, I'd have been glad to see Charles II bring a bit of bawdiness back......but, then, that's just me!

WillowTheWhisp · 30-08-2008, 20:10

I'm glad I didn't live in those days. Puritanism would have driven me bonkers.

I don't think he was a saint. Was he a sinner? Probably because in order to get the results he wanted he did perhaps go too far but without knowing what life was really like then it's hard to say.

Royboy39 · 30-08-2008, 20:36

There was a pub in Blackburn named The Cromwell....anyone know where it was?

cmonstanley · 30-08-2008, 22:36

cromwell avenue in accy tooo.the thing is he was a bit silly as well .when the scottish covenanters sided with cromwell and kidnapped king james and asked for a ransom they collected the ransom but let him go..for a small fee as well..

but he still asked for their /our support when fighting against the royalists..

and i.e. dont believe all in the history books because its well knowne they were distorted to discredit the parliamentarians....and british history..

cashman · 30-08-2008, 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by beechy

if my memory serves me well
he didnt do a very good job across in ireland

Didn't realise yer were that old Beechy.

Royboy39 · 30-08-2008, 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmonstanley

cromwell avenue in accy tooo.the thing is he was a bit silly as well .when the scottish covenanters sided with cromwell and kidnapped king james and asked for a ransom they collected the ransom but let him go..for a small fee as well..

but he still asked for their /our support when fighting against the royalists..

and i.e. dont believe all in the history books because its well knowne they were distorted to discredit the parliamentarians....and british history..

For a few quid I may be able to get yoiu an interview with Mancie.
A think a bottle of Bells might win the day.

lancsdave · 30-08-2008, 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmonstanley

dont believe all in the history books because its well knowne they were distorted to discredit the parliamentarians....and british history..

Well thats a lot of history degrees down the pan, all this time and it was the old wives tales which were the truth after all

West Ender · 31-08-2008, 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmonstanley

cromwell avenue in accy tooo.the thing is he was a bit silly as well .when the scottish covenanters sided with cromwell and kidnapped king james and asked for a ransom they collected the ransom but let him go..for a small fee as well..

but he still asked for their /our support when fighting against the royalists..

and i.e. dont believe all in the history books because its well knowne they were distorted to discredit the parliamentarians....and british history..

Which King James was that then? James I (VI of Scotland) was dead and James II (later deposed) was Charles II's younger brother and reigned long after Cromwell's death.

Where is the distortion? The dates of battles, the trial and execution of Charles I and the period of Parliamentary rule are factual. Laws passed under Cromwell's "reign" are documented. I don't think Parliamentarians are discredited at all, just castigated for the unnecessary act of regicide of Charles I. Had they not done that, alienating many on both sides of the civil war, the monarchy would probably never have been restored.

garinda · 31-08-2008, 23:52

He should not be forgiven for popularising the mullet.