Halal butcher? - Page 4

Accyexplorer · 09-01-2016, 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany

there are rules & regulations in place to prevent unnecessary suffering & pain to animals that are to be humanely slaughtered. In most cases, these rules are adhered to, there will always be one or two that slip through the net but Halal slaughtering ignores these basic niceties.

Do you know this as fact D,If we cared to look, I'm sure we could find enough examples of procedures not being followed correctly etc in any slaughter house.
I'd say there would also a equivalent amount of evidence to support that the halal slaughter procedure is just as 'humane' as the standard.

DaveinGermany · 09-01-2016, 14:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer

Do you know this as fact D, (the information is readily available if you're prepared to look, the Tinterweb is a marvellous research tool)

If we cared to look, I'm sure we could find enough examples of procedures not being followed correctly etc in any slaughter house. (Agreed, regardless of what rules are laid down there will always be someone somewhere be they individual or company who bend, disregard or blatantly disregard those edicts)

I'd say there would also a equivalent amount of evidence to support that the halal slaughter procedure is just as 'humane' as the standard. (That I doubt as from the start the animals in Halal slaughters aren't stunned & as such are fully aware of what is happening)

Here's a starting point for you Accy-x

General - Humane Slaughter Association

Margaret Pilkington · 09-01-2016, 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer

Do you know this as fact D,If we cared to look, I'm sure we could find enough examples of procedures not being followed correctly etc in any slaughter house.
I'd say there would also a equivalent amount of evidence to support that the halal slaughter procedure is just as 'humane' as the standard.

I know this to be a fact as my daughter used to work at a local slaughterhouse.
There were a whole raft of regulations which were strenuously enforced.
The animals were stunned before slaughter and they were kept calm.
Animals who are fearful release hormones which make for tough meat.
Official vets are employed by slaughterhouses to ensure humane standards of kill are maintained.....and to ensure animal welfare in the period prior to the slaughter. (My neice is married to one of these offical vets)

Kosher slaughter was also performed at this establishment and this was also rigorously regulated.
Halal slaughter(and Kosher too) is NOT humane......there is no stunning of the animal.

Yes, I do care......I do not wish to eat halal meat of any descripton....I believe that I should be told if the meat I am about to buy is Halal.....this givs me the choice of whether to buy or not......in my case, it would be NOT.

I fully understand how meat gets to my plate and I accept that, as I eat meat.
If I felt differently I would not choose to eat meat.

taddy · 09-01-2016, 15:51

Talking of meat and meat products, I have been informed that two local police officer's have been diagnosed with Swine Flu thanks to the help of one of their snout's.

. Taddy.

Eric · 09-01-2016, 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by DtheP47

What indeed is humane?

Shooting them yourself, maybe?

DaveinGermany · 09-01-2016, 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric

Shooting them yourself, maybe?

I can go with that & in my time have also done so. I don't do the shooting now (to many rules & regs in Germany) but I have a friend who is a Hunter & such meat as we would like Deer & Boar we source through him. Clean, efficient, instantaneous, using the right calibre for the job, the animal is dead before it knows what has happened.

Eric · 09-01-2016, 18:16

I don't know if it's irony or paradox ... and really don't give a rat's ass ... but many Canadian hunters are conservationists.

Conserve Our Wetlands ? Support Ducks Unlimited Canada

DtheP47 · 09-01-2016, 18:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany

Here's a starting point for you Accy-x

General - Humane Slaughter Association

And another for you and Eric to consider Accy X

Ethical, organic, safe: the other side of halal food | Life and style | The Guardian

Extract: "In truth, 88% of Britain's halal meat comes from animals that have been stunned before slaughter, but the 12% that isn't generates controversy, even among Muslims. Of Britain's two most prominent halal certification boards, the Halal Food Authority allows stunning, while the Halal Monitoring Committee bans it, on grounds that stuns can sometimes kill the animals before slaughter. With a clutch of regulatory bodies, and varying definitions of what constitutes halal, customers are confused: there have even been calls to have halal meat labelled as "stunned" and "non-stunned"."

Margaret Pilkington · 09-01-2016, 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by DtheP47

And another for you and Eric to consider Accy X

Ethical, organic, safe: the other side of halal food | Life and style | The Guardian

Extract: "In truth, 88% of Britain's halal meat comes from animals that have been stunned before slaughter, but the 12% that isn't generates controversy, even among Muslims. Of Britain's two most prominent halal certification boards, the Halal Food Authority allows stunning, while the Halal Monitoring Committee bans it, on grounds that stuns can sometimes kill the animals before slaughter. With a clutch of regulatory bodies, and varying definitions of what constitutes halal, customers are confused: there have even been calls to have halal meat labelled as "stunned" and "non-stunned"."

While this story is laudable......I still would not eat Halal meat......unless there were guarantees that the animal had been stunned.

As for the stunned animal dying from the stunning process.......I think this is very unlikely.
If the animal needs to be prayed over or blessed for giving up its life then do it, stun the animal, then kill it.

As for killing my own meat. I know I could not do it. I accept that there are others in the community that can do so.....so I let them do it.
(there are people who frequently tell me that they could not wipe another persons bottom, something I did for 30 years or so - that would be no problem to me...so how about I wipe bums and someone kills my meat?)

DtheP47 · 09-01-2016, 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

As for the stunned animal dying from the stunning process.......I think this is very unlikely.

"the Halal Monitoring Committee bans it, on grounds that stuns can sometimes kill the animals before slaughter"

Well the HMC thinks it likely, they will have access to more evidence than you quite likely.

Margaret Pilkington · 09-01-2016, 22:32

It sounds like a justification for killing without stunning to me.
I do not have experience in such things, but I will ask my nieces husband(who is an official vet for slaughterhouses) how often he has seen this happen.

Margaret Pilkington · 09-01-2016, 22:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by DtheP47

"the Halal Monitoring Committee bans it, on grounds that stuns can sometimes kill the animals before slaughter"

Well the HMC thinks it likely, they will have access to more evidence than you quite likely.

And if they fear this is likely, then they should do the prayer or blessing, stun and THEN kill the animal humanely.

Gordon Booth · 09-01-2016, 22:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by DtheP47

"the Halal Monitoring Committee bans it, on grounds that stuns can sometimes kill the animals before slaughter"

Well the HMC thinks it likely, they will have access to more evidence than you quite likely.

If the laws of this country apply to all of us, not just some of us, the HMC cannot ban it, they can only ban their followers from eating it. Our laws say animals must be treated humanely and slaughtered humanely.
If they insist on meat killed this way then they should buy it from a country where halal killing without stunning is not banned.
Hanging a fully conscious animal by a leg and cutting it's throat so it bleeds to death for a few minutes- humane? Painless? No rational person could believe that or should accept it.

DtheP47 · 10-01-2016, 01:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

It sounds like a justification for killing without stunning to me.
I do not have experience in such things, but I will ask my nieces husband(who is an official vet for slaughterhouses) how often he has seen this happen.

I'll be interested to hear what he says.

Margaret Pilkington · 10-01-2016, 09:16

I spoke to him last night.
He has been an official vet for some twenty odd years and he has only seen a stun kill a beast three times. Each of these beasts was discarded as being unfit for human consumption. (Don't know if they were post mortemed, didn't think to ask)I presume that that means that there was something wrong with them.
He also said he hasn't seen this happen in recent years.