Halal butcher?

[DtheP47]

Thanks Margaret.
For me it's ones choice at the end of the day.
A blunt instrument pounded into the animals skull. *shudder*
Or the severing of the jugular vein with a sharp knife breaking the connection to the pain receptors and brain almost immediately. *shiver*
There is of course another consideration, the subsequent draining of blood is also seen to have a number of health benefits.
Clearly though labels should be used then we are all given the right to choose.

[Margaret Pilkington]

You are welcome.
The stunning (which is not a blunt instrument, it is an electrical charge)process renders the beast insensible so no pain is registered by the animal.
I cannot be sure in my own mind that the person who uses the sharp knife has accurately located the jugular vein.....or that the knife is as sharp as it needs to be.
Also,I am told,that frequently in halal slaughter, the prayer or blessing is on the blade to remove the need for it to actually be spoken....to speed up the process.
I know that I should take things I am told with a good dose of salts, but it makes you wonder what other practices are done in the name of speed.

Yes, adequate, CLEAR labelling is definitely the way forward so that we can make a choice.

[DtheP47]

Animal slaughter factfile - Stunning, sticking, religious slaughter

extract:•Penetrating captive bolt - used on cattle, sheep and some pigs. A gun fires a metal bolt into the brain of the animal causing the animal to lose consciousness immediately.

[Margaret Pilkington]

I have visited slaughterhouses, I have seen the electrical stunning, but 'chickened' out of watching beasts being bolted(no pun intended)
The animals I saw being killed were lambs and pigs.
My husband worked in the blood pit of the slaughterhouse when he was a teenager(a damn long time ago).

[DtheP47]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

The stunning (which is not a blunt instrument, it is an electrical charge)process renders the beast insensible so no pain is registered by the animal.

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

I have visited slaughterhouses, I have seen the electrical stunning, but 'chickened' out of watching beasts being bolted(no pun intended)
The animals I saw being killed were lambs and pigs.
My husband worked in the blood pit of the slaughterhouse when he was a teenager(a damn long time ago).

So "bolting" with a blunt instrument is part of the slaughtering process then is it not? As per the RSPCA pages.

[Margaret Pilkington]

As far as I am aware, bolting is part of the stunning process, done prior to the slitting of the beasts throat.
I said in a previous post, I was offered an opportunity to watch this being done, but declined........I DID watch the electrical stunning of smaller animals(not chickens).

I am not that squeamish, but did not really want to watch bolting.

I thought the electrical stunning was a bit like ECT which I saw carried out on the mental health unit.

[DtheP47]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

As far as I am aware, bolting is part of the stunning process, done prior to the slitting of the beasts throat.

I thought the electrical stunning was a bit like ECT which I saw carried out on the mental health unit.

Yes but in post #62 you said authoritively "Stunning is not a blunt instrument but an electric charge"

Electroconvulsive Therapy.... now that opens up a whole new thread.
Carrie Mathison in Homeland and McMurphy in One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest.
"Trust me I am a doctor (or a nurse)"

[Margaret Pilkington]

You made it sound as if the animal was being cudgelled to death. Yes a bolt is s blunt instrument....But it is considered to be the most humane way of stunning beasts prior to a kill. You were using emotive language to impress a point.
Are you a meat eater? Do you care about how your meat gets to you table?
If you are not a meat eater then any method of killing an animal for food will be abhorrent to you......and I can see why you would use emotive language......designed to put meat eaters off meat.

I want to be able to make choices of whether I spend MY money on meat that I consider has been killed humanely.
I do not consider halal meat to have been humanely killed......that is my opinion, to which I am entitled.

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

As far as I am aware, bolting is part of the stunning process, done prior to the slitting of the beasts throat.


I thought the electrical stunning was a bit like ECT which I saw carried out on the mental health unit.

A captive bolt pistol does kill, when the dog dispatch house was in the fire station yard, I've used a captive bolt on more than one occasion, when the chap who operated the electric chamber was off, and a young copper woild be dithering and missing, I'd take it off him reload, and do it proper, the one at the cop shop used .22 blank cartridges, and the bolt shot out over 2 inches, some of the bigger ones for larger animals used .38 blanks.
During WW1 the foot sloggers in the Army Vet Corps, were issued with .38 caliber revolvers, to put wounded horses out of their misery, that ammo was specially made for the job, and stayed inside the horses head, middle of the fore head about 3 inch above the eyes.

[maxthecollie]

Originally Posted by Retlaw

A captive bolt pistol does kill, when the dog dispatch house was in the fire station yard, I've used a captive bolt on more than one occasion, when the chap who operated the electric chamber was off, and a young copper woild be dithering and missing, I'd take it off him reload, and do it proper, the one at the cop shop used .22 blank cartridges, and the bolt shot out over 2 inches, some of the bigger ones for larger animals used .38 blanks.
During WW1 the foot sloggers in the Army Vet Corps, were issued with .38 caliber revolvers, to put wounded horses out of their misery, that ammo was specially made for the job, and stayed inside the horses head, middle of the fore head about 3 inch above the eyes.

I used to repair the electric chamber at the back of the cop shop when I worked for Accrington (not Hyndburn) Corporation

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by maxthecollie

I used to repair the electric chamber at the back of the cop shop when I worked for Accrington (not Hyndburn) Corporation

Flamin Nora, thats a long time ago, tha must be a real coffin dodger, n a thowt I wur owd.
I joined Fir Briga dee in 57, n cops wur county as well then.

[maxthecollie]

It was just before Accy became "Hyndburn" I worked for the Electrical and Street Lighting between 1960 and 1965 approx

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by maxthecollie

It was just before Accy became "Hyndburn" I worked for the Electrical and Street Lighting between 1960 and 1965 approx

We had several members of the street lighting dept, who were in the retained fire section, I used to call them Mantle Squeezers.
Daft enough to squeeze a gas mantle to see if it still worked.
Two of them got caught out ringing in false fire calls, ended up in court, its a long story of how I found out, then weeks of of checking call out records, and listening to recordings at B.H.Q.
My Sister worked there, and records were kept of the incoming calls, and where from, accidentally caught another, a fairly new member working on his own.

[DtheP47]

Originally Posted by maxthecollie

I used to repair the electric chamber at the back of the cop shop when I worked for Accrington (not Hyndburn) Corporation

I always thought they gassed stray/unwanted dogs behind the Fire Station.

[DtheP47]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

You made it sound as if the animal was being cudgelled to death. Yes a bolt is s blunt instrument....But it is considered to be the most humane way of stunning beasts prior to a kill. You were using emotive language to impress a point.
Are you a meat eater? Do you care about how your meat gets to you table?
.

Yes I am a meat eater, the Surf and Turf I had last weekend in the Park (medium rare) was finger licking delicious.
Am I bothered how my meat gets to my table? Yes of course, but I am more concerned with hygiene and responsible animal welfare/husbandry during its life that it’s last few hours.
Dave in Deutschland makes the point about the animal being despatched before it knows what’s happening. Good enough for me but we can widen that debate if you like. “Would or does the animal know what’s happening?”

No I don’t want the animal distressed period but I think that’s a given in any slaughterhouse procedures, rules and regulations.