Hang 'em High ...

Eric · 22-09-2011, 13:36

Has the execution of Troy Davis, and the controversy surrounding the evidence in his case led anyone of the hang 'em, fry 'em group on here to reconsider their attitudes to capital punishment? Or are accy advocates of this barbarism content to say something like: "Well, what can you expect from the semi-literate, red-neck inbreds south of the Mason-Dixon Line. Here in Britain we would never hang an innocent man"

Oh, and on the reconsidering of attitudes bit ... I ain't holding my breath.

walkinman221 · 22-09-2011, 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric

Has the execution of Troy Davis, and the controversy surrounding the evidence in his case led anyone of the hang 'em, fry 'em group on here to reconsider their attitudes to capital punishment? Or are accy advocates of this barbarism content to say something like: "Well, what can you expect from the semi-literate, red-neck inbreds south of the Mason-Dixon Line. Here in Britain we would never hang an innocent man"

Oh, and on the reconsidering of attitudes bit ... I ain't holding my breath.

Good we wouldnt want you going blue or keeling over eric

Having a said that we have gone to the polar opposite of this. In the paper today i read that a paedophile went to court because he couldnt walk in public parks where CHILDREN play, he claimed it breached his human rights and he won the case

jaysay · 22-09-2011, 17:53

I have no problem with not having the death penalty in this country if the punishment fit the crime but it doesn't, when a murderer is given life thats should be that, but it isn't in 99% of cases, some are back on the streets within 10 years. I would have no problem hanging the likes of Huntley, Brady, Sutcliffe and the like, instead of it costing millions of pounds to keep them in jail indefinitely, if they were given hard labour with meals to suite fine but they are treated with kid gloves and like I said on a recent thread the warders have to call them Mr

Boeing Guy · 22-09-2011, 18:07

I don't know much about this case, but when he was originally convicted the jury took two hours to find him guilty, seven of the members were black.
If he was innocent, then this is terrible.

garinda · 22-09-2011, 18:27

Although I think our criminal justice system is much too lenient, I am against the death penalty.

There were, are, and would undoubtedly be miscarriages of justice, and no amount of compensation will result in bringing back from the dead an innocent man or woman.

I remember when I first joined Accy Web there was a thread and poll about the death penalty, and I was in a minority in not wanting it reintroduced.

Despite being one of the few who argued against it, I didn't feel as if I was under attack. It was just differing points of view.

With all the recent brouhaha about new members being treated with kid gloves, it didn't put me off posting in other threads.

As then, for the reasons I mentioned above, I would still fight the reintroduction of capital punishment in this country.

garinda · 22-09-2011, 18:32

For anyone not familar with who Eric referred to in the opening post of this thread, this link gives some of the details surrounding this case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_Davis_case

Eric · 22-09-2011, 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boeing Guy

I don't know much about this case, but when he was originally convicted the jury took two hours to find him guilty, seven of the members were black.
If he was innocent, then this is terrible.

You can find some good articles on this case in all the international media. To say the case against Davis was flawed is extreme understatement. Or, briefly, the case sucked. If there is any bright side to a probably innocent man being murdered by the State of Georgia, it is that Americans are going to be forced to take a good hard look at capital punishment. We have our miscarriages of justice in Canada too.
David Milgaard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I particularly remember this one as I was living in Saskatoon at the time of the murder. Reading the news, and watching it on tv most folks had him guilty. He was a bad kid, into drugs and petty crime; but he was not a murderer.

I can't imagine what someone must go through sitting in the chair, or standing on the gallows, or waiting for the lethal injection knowing that one is innocent. I remember reading a sci-fi story called "I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream". The author, Harlan Ellison I think, considered this the most horrible of fates. Standing, innocent, with a rope around one's neck, waiting for the big drop, must rank right up there with this.

Eric · 22-09-2011, 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

For anyone not familar with who Eric referred to in the opening post of this thread, this link gives some of the details surrounding this case.

Troy Davis case - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oh ... thanx .... I just assumed everyone was aware of it .... you know, AccyWebbers being a super well-informed bunch of folks

And on your other point, the one in the preceding post: I've taken flak for opposing capital punishment too. Ain't stopped me posting either.

I can't think of one good, solid argument for capital punishment

Starting with: "Capital pusnisment is a deterrent", they are all BS.

garinda · 22-09-2011, 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric

Oh ... thanx .... I just assumed everyone was aware of it .... you know, AccyWebbers being a super well-informed bunch of folks

And on your other point, the one in the preceding post: I've taken flak for opposing capital punishment too. Ain't stopped me posting either.

I can't think of one good, solid argument for capital punishment

Starting with: "Capital pusnisment is a deterrent", they are all BS.

You'll notice the post with the link I gave is edited.

I inadvertently posted the wrong link, after searching for a site that reported the case fairly.

I idiotically posted a link to the Daily Mail, who argued Troy Davis was a reason why we should have capital punishment.

The Daily Mail surmised that 'Capital punishment is punishment for grown up societies -- not cowering in the face of the mass injustice of murder.'

I won't link the story.

I find it too shaming.

garinda · 22-09-2011, 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric

Oh ... thanx .... I just assumed everyone was aware of it .... you know, AccyWebbers being a super well-informed bunch of folks

And on your other point, the one in the preceding post: I've taken flak for opposing capital punishment too. Ain't stopped me posting either.

I can't think of one good, solid argument for capital punishment

Starting with: "Capital pusnisment is a deterrent", they are all BS.

Agreed. If capital punishment was such a successful deterrent in those American states where it's enforced, then surely there'd be no murders there at all.

DaveinGermany · 22-09-2011, 19:15

Sorry to disagree with some folk, but I do think there are cases when Capital punishment should be used. If there is sufficient, valid, clear cut evidence to confirm a case, yes administer the death penalty. However should there be some areas of contention & insufficient clear cut evidence, a lesser sentence should be administered.

Eric, as to your point about the comment "Capital punishment is a deterrent" I think such a statement can be a bit ambiguous, what is certain though is that those served with a death sentence will never re-offend.

garinda · 22-09-2011, 19:49

I've been chairman of a jury on a criminal trial.

Grevious Bodily Harm in this case, not murder.

After listening to two week's worth of evidence, I did have more than 'reasonable doubt' in my mind as to the person's guilt.

I had to stand there, and deliver a verdict carried by a majority of eleven to twelve, that the person was guilty. I thought they were innocent.

Many of my fellow jurors openly admitted to not 'liking' the accused, and whilst deliberating many expressed prejudice against the person on trial, for reasons totally unconnected to the case.

The whole thing was an eye-opener, and made me sick to my stomach to have to stand there and deliver a verdict I know in my heart was wrong.

I could not, would not have, if it had been a murder trial, and we still had capital punishment.

Eric · 22-09-2011, 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany

Sorry to disagree with some folk, but I do think there are cases when Capital punishment should be used. If there is sufficient, valid, clear cut evidence to confirm a case, yes administer the death penalty. However should there be some areas of contention & insufficient clear cut evidence, a lesser sentence should be administered.

Eric, as to your point about the comment "Capital punishment is a deterrent" I think such a statement can be a bit ambiguous, what is certain though is that those served with a death sentence will never re-offend.

Here's one for you.

Guy Paul Morin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

... there was "sufficient, valid, clear cut evidence" to convict this guy, or else he wouldn't have been convicted in a Canadian court ... remember, we are the folks who will not even extradite anyone who would face the death penalty if returned to his own country. Problem is, he was innocent.

Bad enough he served his time in general population. In Georgia, and especially in Rick Perry's Texas, he would have been dead.

Just an aside: does anyone else see the irony in supporting the death penalty and, at the same time, opposing a woman's right to have access to a safe abortion? American Republicans, and probably quite a few UK tories, seem to have no problems with this contradiction.

Michael1954 · 23-09-2011, 06:57

I have never forgotten the case of Stefan Ivan Kiszko, who served 16 years imprisonment for the murder of Lesley Molseed until he was found to be innocent. Had there been capital punishment he would have been hanged.

garinda · 23-09-2011, 11:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael1954

I have never forgotten the case of Stefan Ivan Kiszko, who served 16 years imprisonment for the murder of Lesley Molseed until he was found to be innocent. Had there been capital punishment he would have been hanged.

That was very sad.

He died not long after he was released.

Even with advances in D.N.A. etc, the verdict is decided by people.

People make mistakes.

It's human nature.