Is it time?

Eric · 19-09-2012, 22:15

I think that the thread, "Two Policewomen killed" should be an outlet for people to express their sorrow and anger at such a brutal, cold-blooded killing, not somewhere to bring up the serious questions which will arise from it. So, I pose this question in a separate thread: Is it time that all British police officers were issued with firearms and bulletproof vests? I realize that some of you may feel uncomfortable with the idea, but I get the distinct feeling that we don't live in a Dixon-of-Dock-Green world any more.

churchfcrules · 20-09-2012, 07:11

I am still in two minds, mainly because of the attitude of some of the constabulary I have contact with, in reality I wouldn't want them armed.

It does make me smirk when people say, " if you arm the police, it will make the criminals go armed", where are they living? They already are!

cashman · 20-09-2012, 07:49

Don't think its a good idea, its more time to issue proper jail terms n less comfortable conditions in my view, but twill never happen.

Neil · 20-09-2012, 07:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

Don't think its a good idea, its more time to issue proper jail terms n less comfortable conditions in my view, but twill never happen.

Would that make people more determined to not get caught?
In turn that might encourage more people to carry guns to help them escape capture.

cashman · 20-09-2012, 08:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil

Would that make people more determined to not get caught?
In turn that might encourage more people to carry guns to help them escape capture.

No easy answer, it just may make some decide committing the offence aint worth it, But more value in my eyes it certainly "Will" make most victims n general public feel a bit better.

suppose the big picture is hard fer some to grasp.

jaysay · 20-09-2012, 09:04

I doubt if it will happen, the majority of serving officers are against total arming of the police, and as Neil said if the police are armed it may encourage more villains to arm themselves

susie123 · 20-09-2012, 09:34

Very good article here, covers lots of points.

BBC News - Why British police don?t have guns

cashman · 20-09-2012, 10:02

It is a good article, To me its all about the mentality of people,? The Yanks are total Nut Jobs, most think there John Wayne or some fancy Cowboy. Plus America has no real History so they think the likes of Billy The Kid are it!

Having been a few times to many different states, i love em, but thats the view i formed.

Eric · 20-09-2012, 13:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by susie123

Very good article here, covers lots of points.

BBC News - Why British police don?t have guns

An interesting article. I had a chat with a friend of mine about the killing of the two officers. He is a retired staff-sargeant and watch commander with the Kingston Police Force. In the last year that he worked he can rememember only three occasions on which members of the KPF actually drew their guns. And only one case of an officer discharging his firearm ... this was to kill a deer that had been badly injured by a car.

Like it or not, you guys are a lot like Canadians, and I don't think that even armed British police would act like our trigger happy neighbours to the south. If you get pulled over in, let's say, Alabama, even in a routine traffic stop, expect the officer to approach your car with his gun drawn. Oh, and don't make any sudden moves to reach in your glove compartment; they could be the last moves you make. However, if what is working now seems to work ... unarmed cops ... maybe it's right for your society. But with armed criminals becoming the rule rather than the exception ... I don't know. I guess I'm used to armed cops. Doesn't bother me any more.

And the point that the two female officers would have been killed even if they had been armed is a good one (although bullet proof vests would have been a good idea.) My friend told me that if Kingston cops had gone on the same call, they would not have had their firearms drawn. And there is this case to consider:

Mayerthorpe tragedy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And I am surprised that the coppers themselves don't want guns.

Less · 20-09-2012, 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric

And I am surprised that the coppers themselves don't want guns.

Perhaps they trust the majority of the public? Just as the majority of the public trust the Police?

Odd exceptions to both, maybe Police without guns is a reflection on how good our society, compared with others might just be?

susie123 · 20-09-2012, 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Less

Perhaps they trust the majority of the public? Just as the majority of the public trust the Police?

Odd exceptions to both, maybe Police without guns is a reflection on how good our society, compared with others might just be?

Yes Less I think you have it there.

egg&chips · 20-09-2012, 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

It is a good article, To me its all about the mentality of people,? The Yanks are total Nut Jobs, most think there John Wayne or some fancy Cowboy. Plus America has no real History so they think the likes of Billy The Kid are it!

Having been a few times to many different states, i love em, but thats the view i formed.

I love our continental cousins' energy and attitude when I'm over there Cashy but I think you are right. A lack of history, and an unshared consciousness cannot be he healed by pledging alleigance to the flag every day in school, hence a plague of serial killers and a determination to self preservation based on self arming.

jaysay · 20-09-2012, 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Less

Perhaps they trust the majority of the public? Just as the majority of the public trust the Police?

Odd exceptions to both, maybe Police without guns is a reflection on how good our society, compared with others might just be?

I think you've put that in a nutshell Less, a senior police officers said much the same on TV this morning

Eric · 20-09-2012, 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by egg&chips

I love our continental cousins' energy and attitude when I'm over there Cashy but I think you are right. A lack of history, and an unshared consciousness cannot be he healed by pledging alleigance to the flag every day in school, hence a plague of serial killers and a determination to self preservation based on self arming.

I've rarely come accross such a crock of horse manure pretending to be a logical argument. Cashy, I believe, is wrong about the US having no history. But his mention of Billy the Kid, and, I suppose, by implication the whole "frontier" mythology is significant. The frontier ... with its gun law, and its glorification of the Clint-like loner who, though basically a good guy, seems to make up his own law as he goes along ... still has a firm grasp on the minds of many Americans.

And, by the way, what do the yanks call Space? You got it; The Final Frontier.

egg&chips · 20-09-2012, 19:49

Well, you are closer to that neck of the woods Eric and I cannot comment first hand like you can (I know you're in Canada not USA), but a widespread ,and growing, dissatisfaction with federal government by whatever party, might just be symptomatic of a national mindset which refuses to become a cohesive national mindset? Colin Wilson, though not always the most picky of source choosers makes some valid points in A Criminal History of Mankind about dispossessed or rootless societies losing a degree of compassion for their fellow man.